leasing $: really???
New York
So i'm cruising the leasing sites... does it REALLY cost $25/acre to lease? If so, it looks like I'm out of the hunting game soon.
My hunting grounds were purchased a few years ago, and the new farmer/landowner allows me to continue hunting, if I provide him services (wiring, labor etc.).
Unfortunately he's destroyed the herd in our area with nuisance and DMAP permits. He jokingly call our block "the orphanage".
Been hunting here 25 years, these last 4 have been the worst. Used to see 3- 5 in the morning, 3-4 in the evening, many more on really smokin' days. Its gotten to the point where I'll only see a deer maybe 1x per 3-4 sits.
Anyway... Do I REALLY have to pay that much for a hunting lease that is decent?
What say ye?
So i'm cruising the leasing sites... does it REALLY cost $25/acre to lease? If so, it looks like I'm out of the hunting game soon.
My hunting grounds were purchased a few years ago, and the new farmer/landowner allows me to continue hunting, if I provide him services (wiring, labor etc.).
Unfortunately he's destroyed the herd in our area with nuisance and DMAP permits. He jokingly call our block "the orphanage".
Been hunting here 25 years, these last 4 have been the worst. Used to see 3- 5 in the morning, 3-4 in the evening, many more on really smokin' days. Its gotten to the point where I'll only see a deer maybe 1x per 3-4 sits.
Anyway... Do I REALLY have to pay that much for a hunting lease that is decent?
What say ye?
So i'm cruising the leasing sites... does it REALLY cost $25/acre to lease? If so, it looks like I'm out of the hunting game soon.
My hunting grounds were purchased a few years ago, and the new farmer/landowner allows me to continue hunting, if I provide him services (wiring, labor etc.).
Unfortunately he's destroyed the herd in our area with nuisance and DMAP permits. He jokingly call our block "the orphanage".
Been hunting here 25 years, these last 4 have been the worst. Used to see 3- 5 in the morning, 3-4 in the evening, many more on really smokin' days. Its gotten to the point where I'll only see a deer maybe 1x per 3-4 sits.
Anyway... Do I REALLY have to pay that much for a hunting lease that is decent?
What say ye?
there always state hunting lands, if you are in New York there are lots of these areas. It does take time to scout, but you can find good spots and yes there is pressure from the gun hunting, but for some reason very little in the bow season. I would suggest the area of North Pharsalia New York, this is a small town about 13 miles outside of Norwich NY. I lived there for about 15 years and would walk out the door to 8500 A's of state hunting lands.
I agree with Bill, I don't bow hunt much anymore but what I do a lot of is birdhunting and most of my hunting spots are on state woods. We encounter a lot of nice deer as well as heavy deer sign. Bow season & early bird season overlap as you know. Many times we see successful archers on the state lands.I have never encountered large numbers of hunters and we get out a lot on the weekends.
Screw leaseing, hunt state land.I have hunted private and state.I saw some real nice bucks on state land.Alot of these farms want money to hunt now.I hunt one guys farm and he said why should people have to pay me to take animals off my land that damage my crops and cost me money.
I have leased a few times. I enjoyed each property. Some guys spend way more money on crap like cigarettes, booze, etc. etc. I don't know a out the $25 per acre....... It varies greatly. I also hunt state land a lot and belong to a hunting club that leases land as well. For the right property I would pay more. There are places you couldn't pay me to hunt.
good intel folks...
sorry about the triple post.. I haven't done that (double-triple post) in a long time, lol!!
There is a decent amount of state land near me, but I've avoided it in the early years because of the reputation that it gets hit pretty hard. I'm not sure if that's fact or lore, I guess the only way to know for sure it to give it a workout.
i think I'll give it another look, its been a while since I relly put thought to it...
'Got it Pat, thanks.
Well, my lease $ just got consumed.
The new landowner (mega farmer that wiped out our herd) tried to price-out our neighbor's small farm on a 20 acre lease where he (small farmer) grows his corn. The small farmer was giving the guy that ownes that piece $50/acre (which is high, I just finished a discussion about this with another crop farmer) and the mega offered him (the landowner that the small guy leases from) $100/acre. That would have been a pretty heavy blow for him, so the wife and I talked it over and we'll pitch in the extra $50/acre. Also the fellow that is getting the $100 acre is well off. And he won't even allow the small farmer any huntig rights on those fields at all, and that guy could use to fill a few tags as much as anyone I know.
So, this is not "bow shot's" hard luck story. I realize I could be one that was born living in Rowanda, where they massacred each other with machetes... I'm saying all this for this reason:
Brethren, please don't treat your neighbors like that. There's just no excuse. Be kind, have mercy, don't run your life like a business. "Business" does not come first..at least not when you are already sitting extremely well, financially.
I know someone who manages his leases in NY and he said that hunting clubs and groups of guys are actually driving up the prices. One guy cant afford $25.00 an acre but 200 acres split between 5 or 6 guys and its is now $1000.00 or so each and more affordable. He has had to contend with groups ofering his farmers more money and then having to meet that amount to keep the properties.
If you ask me it's the guys who manage leases who are driving up the prices. In the old days it was a farmer putting an ad in the local paper or a friend of a friend who was the landowner. Now increasingly you have a middleman and his income can only come from one place - your pocket. Hunting clubs and groups have been around forever and I would argue that as people's lives get busier there are actually fewer of them as the tradition is slowly dying.
I am president of a hunting club in the Adirondacks. A nearby lease pays $10.00 per acre for their lease.
In NYS Southern Zone, leases are not that common in my experience. Generally though, the ones I have heard of involve friends of the landowner who want sole access and it involves paying the taxes on the land. I would suggest that if one is going that route, get a good contract because "feces occurs" and you don't want to be losing the lease due to someone elses higher offer. Money can trump "friendship"....
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Darton Dog, yes, we had the same thing happen here. there was a guy doing a Wounded Veterans thing, and he was leasing from a lumber co. (out of his own pocket too) for a decent price. Not sure who it was but not too long ago either a leasing co., and outfitter or I guess the lumber co. pounded him out (out bid).
Too bad. We had hooked up last spring and were planning to surprise my younger son, (82nd Airborne Afghanistan combat vet) who lost use of his leg, has TBI, and the other associated fuits of combat (the nightmares, on and on and on) with a nice series of hunts there this season.
So if you asked my son what he thinks of that, he'd just shrug and say, "whatever". Neither of us are big self-pity types (I fail in that area sometimes, lol!).
'But the idea that folks have become so greedy is, well, just sad.
We'll still hunt somewhere, state land, whatever, and thank God for what we have.
Bow Shot first and foremost please thank your son for his sacrifice and service.I guess I didnt really mean clubs so to speak but definately guys seeking land at higher prices hurts. The days of farmers saying yea sure go ahead are pretty much gone in most states.The person I knows has leased some of his properties for years and has had to match other offers to keep them. Money talks and Crap walks sometimes.I hope you and your son enjoy many more hunts together.
Thanks very much, 'Dog. We'll just keep at it and be thankful for what we have!
Depends on where you are at in NY. Lot's of leasing going on in CNY. Gutchess Lumber Co. ad Cotton Hanlon are 2 large lumber companies that lease all their properties. $25 is on the high side.
Gutchess turned me down flat, wouldn't even be polite on the phone, just said (in so many words) we have nothing available, good bye.
'But that was 3 years ago, and I haven't tried them since, and maybe I got someone that was sick of dealing with the public. They are the ones that nuked the Wounded vets guy.
I have prime 10 acres Westchester for sale with a house only 3.2 ,million
Here is a link to what Cotton Hanlon has available now, most in the southern tier it averages about $25 acre.
http://www.cottonhanlon.com/leasing.html
You need to look around. I leased 26 acres in 7M for less than$5 an acre. I know Gutchess is getting about $14.
Contact the Molpus Woodlands Group, Saranac Lake, NY office. Several thousand acres of Property in NY northern zone for $4 - $5 per acre.
Petcontain, I contacted Gutchess and they were totally not interested in talking to me, down right rude on the phone. But that was back when this post was new, maybe they've changed some?
Squash, thanks for the advice, I have to stick close to hime though, 7H, 7J.
Just me. I wouldn't lease in NY, not anywhere near those prices. I can hunt the Midwest and have better experience for the same cost or less. In fact that's just what I do. Furthermore I no longer even hunt my own land in NY and thankfully it's in its purchase hunting wasn't even a secondary consideration. In short 25$ an acre is insane.
Just me. I wouldn't lease in NY, not anywhere near those prices. I can hunt the Midwest and have better experience for the same cost or less. In fact that's just what I do. Furthermore I no longer even hunt my own land in NY and thankfully it's in its purchase hunting wasn't even a secondary consideration. In short 25$ an acre is insane.
Interesting on hearing the whining about lease prices. I own 176 acres that I purchased several years ago in the Southern Tier my taxes on vacant land are over $5,115 a year and that equates to over $29 per acre per year. So if you do not want to pay high lease prices just buy it and save yourself all that lease money ;)
Well, for me there's the tax AND the financing. Can't afford both. But so it is and that's ok! : - )
I know of 13 acres going for $154.50 a year lease and 156 for $772.50. Like I said you need to search around
I own 114 acres in Lewis County and my taxes are through the roof and I saw 3 deer in about 18 times out before I went to Ohio where I am in on a lease there. We see lots of deer out there and it is worth the money.
Here in an area where everybody shoots everything and the seasons are so long, it truly isn't worth the money to lease, or own property in Northern NY unless you can control a LOT of land, or have neighbors who will refrain from killing young deer.
All my neighbors kill everything, so my 114 acres isn't big enough to keep the deer on it. As soon as they leave, they get killed. It is really frustrating. I wish you well and good luck finding a place to hunt.
Petcontain: Understoods it looks like there may be some light in the darkness afterall, lol!
JayG: Aye, that's a frustration that came to my area (7H) over the last few years. Till recently, I had very little trouble filling 2-3 tags using bow through all 3 seasons usually a buck and 1-2 doe, and there were plenty of deer to see on just about every watch. Its was very good till about 2011, then a "new breed" came into town. I know there are other variables, and there are up/down years, but these last few have been the worst (in a row) I've seen since I began hunting in 1981.
These sounds like great deals. I'd gladly lease 40 acres or so @ $25/acre in Westchester or Putnam, but nobody will offer that. It's $200K+ to buy 1 acre.
Yep a few years ago it was $8 to $12 now they've driven as high as $40 around here.. 7P,7M AND 4F. I refuse to lease so the day comes when I have to do that I'll sell everything. These high lease rates make guys do stupid things. Not all but some think they have to get the money's worth so that leads to over kill not tagging, etc. I realize land owner's need to pay their taxes and such. But this is what it has come down to unfortunately. It's now a rich mans sport.
Arrownocker, I agree, I dropped out of a lease in OH, because of exactly what you stated, others in on the lease, not tagging and killing multiple bucks. And as far as a ," rich mans sport," you think ? just look at the prices for guided hunts. But that's what the market will bare, the outfitters are getting it.
Arrownocker82 there are bargains out there, you just have to shop.
I was also researching for possible lease opportunities and was kind of dismayed at the prices the various leasing out its are asking for ground that is in all likelihood nothing special. Yeah....$25-$35/acre. That's ridiculous. The landowners on whose property I've hunted for 25 years may sell before too long and now there's guys on both sides who are "brown is down" and the hunting has been declining for about 5 years now. I'm looking in self-defense I guess. I'm not going to look at these "Leasing Companies" any further. On the other hand, knocking on doors is kind of a ridiculous proposition without first pre-qualifying the prospect somehow. I've done some knocking on doors two years ago and concluded there is literally NO land which is not being hunted by somebody. I'm wondering if rural/local real estate agents would have information on farms or defunct farms up for sale? My inclination is that small farm or farms winding down might present opportunities, particularly of offering to pay $$ to help offset taxes, etc? What's the deal on the smaller timber companies I see mentioned. Could they be a possible source of leads to prospects at least if not leasing property themselves? I'm looking in 7J.
Small farms are being bought up by the Amish. Again if you want no hunting pressure, peace , solitude, and low lease price per acre, you have to look in the northern zone. The down side is fewer deer. The Molpus Woodlands Group has several thousand acres for lease in 6N, for less than $5/ acre, hunting is similar to the central ADK's, low deer population a few bear, many furbearers, and small game.
I agree with the leasing prices in NY getting out of hand. We lease 150 acres for 600 bucks and that is 3 guys. 200 a piece is not bad at all. I would take 2 grand and go to Kansas and lease even just 100 acres of the right land between two guys that is not bad. Scooby
I have seen some decent leases in Nebraska and Kansas for around 10 bucks an acre. Also Indiana has some great lease for under 10 an acre. Why lease in NY where the chance of even a P&Y deer is remote when for the same lease cost you can have a good chance at a P&Y buck. Shawn
1 Travel Distance 2 Amount of time you can hunt in NY 3 If P&Y is what you are after in NY, it is a real challenge 4 Does P&Y make your hunt or your time in the field? 5 In NY I found land to lease for $4.76 per acre and land to hunt for $0.00 total 136 acres 6 I joined a hunting club at $1.17 an acre, with 700 acres with year round use of a cabin and 16 members 7 I know of 3000 acres bow only for $.004 an acre 8 You have to look around
