Cuomo & crossbows - whats your thoughts?
New York
From today's State of the State address from NY governor Cuomo. The second change mentioned below is unrelated and not directly relevant.
"In addition, Governor Cuomo is committed to enacting two changes that will create a more appealing and competitive sporting state. By authorizing the Department of Environmental Conservation to regulate crossbow hunting, the Governor will resolve a lapsed temporary fix, make New York competitive with neighboring states and provinces, enhance New York’s hunting destination reputation and give clarity to the sporting businesses that have held crossbows on their shelves for one year..."
good news if you want crossbows and bad news if you do not support the use of crossbows in hunting archery or want it only to be used in the black powder or gun.
Being 72 years young, I still can draw and hold a trad bow at 45 lbs and or my compound that is setup at 56 lbs.
But if due to old age I can not use them I would like the ability to get and use a cross bow to hunt.
My "opinion" is that they should be legal to use for older hunters that want to use them or people that are disabled in some way during the general archery season. For "able" bodied folks, they should be relegated to the gun season.
I am dead set AGAINST the general use of crossguns in the archery season.
>>>>----my $.02---->
About time.
Never understood the "only for elderly/handicapped/ etc. They are either archery equipment or not. If not archery equipment, why allow in the season for any reason. Or let other non archery equipment in like mz.
I don't care either way... but I do have to say I don't understand why some people feel so negatively about the crossbow being included into archery season. I don't care what you call it, it is archery.
Could I make use of a crossbow? I doubt it but because it's not my cup of tea doesn't mean it shouldn't be somebody else's.
With that mind set maybe compound bows should have their own smaller season and let the traditional bow hunters have the bulk of what we now know as bow season. It just seems foolish to restrict somebody else's hunting pleasure because it doesn't agree with yours. Live and let live fellas.
Leave it up to the land owner...
Bring'em on.I'm 74 and should have the choice of what archery equipment i wish to use.I still use a compound,but after open heart surgery having trouble pulling it back.Still building my muscles back up,we'll see.Griz
Griz, I never tried cocking on of them in my 60 years of shooting bows,but if it is anything like a break action air or pellet rifle It is not that easy.Mor so if you just had surgery.
thphtm I just bought a air rifle,busting my butt cocking it.My son is 6'1" 220# and he has trouble cocking his crossbow Needs a crank i guess.I'll keep using the compound till i can't draw it anymore.Griz
To be honest I have gone back and forth on this issue. I think for age and disability they should be legal, in the archery season. But, that is is the extent of it. NYON which notably has not been a big fan of New York Bowhunters and visa versa, had a recent article pertaining to the PA Game Commission re-analyzing their own Crossbow regulations. Some statistics they have found, have been exactly what NYB and other Archery organizations have been stating all along. Of their analysis ( PA Game Comm.) they have found that statewide the Crossbow in the Archery Season accounts for an additional buck take of about 37,000 bucks per year. That is 37,000 less bucks available in the Gun Season and 37,000 less bucks available to get an opportunity to breed during the Rut. The other finding noted by the PA Game Commission is that the ranks of Crossbow hunters is NOT coming from the ranks of traditional or compound archers, but from Gun hunters and others new to hunting. So at least one state has come out and validated several of the concerns that many have been worried about.
Those statistics have also been validated by Ohio and Arkansas. Those states have had an increase of 35% and 39% of gun hunters using a crossbow during their archery seasons. Not new hunters or bowhunters, but strictly gun hunters. Also, in Ohio, their gun season is only 6-10 days, all dependent upon the total kills during their archery season. As the Vice President of NYB, I have always stated the we stand by the truth and data. At least PA has admitted that they may have made a mistake by giving the crossbow such a wide berth with full inclusion.
It's about time NY gets with the program that the surrounding states have allowed. We all have the choice of what tool to use so use what you like and keep to your hunting ethics.
Steve McD, it should be a interesting meeting on Jan 25th.
Wayne.. I'm sure there will be some colorful discussions! LOL.
Crossbows during the archery season for the handicapped and elderly. For everyone else they should be in the general season.
I say let them in for anyone who wants to use them handicapped or not. Last year while hunting in the state of Indianna where they are legal,my friend insisted that I shoot his before I left. So I finally did before cutting up a couple deer. I was not to impressed and told him so. He said you must be kidding me.So I told him if you like it thats fine but I 'll take my compound over it any day, He asked why? I said its way too heavy, way to cumbersome in a treestand, way harder to squeeze thru tight brush while walking, A second shot if you miss forget it after you struggle to cock it, hard to bring up the tree on a rope and last no more accurate than my bow.I like the "challenge of the draw" which it lacks and for me thats what its all about. How many guys want to lay down the cash for a new set up when you are really not gaining anything.The only reason I do not want to see them is its just another tag for the state to sell.Bow tag,gun tag,crossbow,muzzelloader.Come the day I can not draw a bow I would not hesitate to use one if it meant not hunting.They are not the weapon alot of people think they are.I suggest everyone go shoot one,Just my opinion.
I used to be against Crossbows but now I feel if someone wants to hunt with one, so be it. Like some people have said as I get older and possibly develop some kind of disability that might make it difficult for me to draw my bow, I would want the option to continue to hunt with a crossbow. Bottom line is they will be legal someday in NY during the bow season. I have just accepted it.
Thought? Really!? After all the safe act BS I don't see the relevance of this conversation. We need him out in November. Hammer the rifle and pistol shooters and cater to the crossbow users? Damage control or divide and conquer. Say it any way you like, but I'm not buying it. We all stand together, or one day we all fall together. Arrowsmith
I'm with Arrowsmith, shut that man (the Gubner) off at every turn he takes.
There is NO public outcry, "We want crossbows!!"
For elderly and handicapped in archery season: sure, no problem.
For anyone else? Nope. Use a bow in bow season like everyone else. If you want to take pride in hunting with a primitive-weapon limitiation, then use the xbow in gun season, like I do with my bow.
I'll support limitations on crossbows to elderly/handicapped/gun season etc when we put similar limitations on the modern 32" ata, 60%+ let off, only able to be shot with a trigger release compound. Otherwise allow all "archery" equipment in the bow season.
'gotta to admit I kinda agree with you on that SteveBNY, LOL!!
Yes, even though I use an evil compound, I would be happy to see it all just go back to "bow".
I use compound because, though I shot and hunted recurve many years, my killing ability was very poor.
Yes, it's my own fault, blah blah blah...
SteveBNY, that is correct saying "OTHERWISE ALLOW ALL "BOW,ARCHER," equipment in archery season! Hand guns should not be allowed in rifle season!
IMO a cross bow should have its own season. I say 1st 2 weeks of current bow season go to crossbow, extend bow season one week longer and shorten gun season by the same week. Never understood why we have gun season before the peak rut. How can the we effectively control the deer population if these deer are harvested before they mate.
I still don't get it... am I the only one that NEVER hears anyone say WE WANT XBOWS!!?
I've never, in my life (53 years) heard anyone that uses bow or gun say they wished they could use xbow, except for one gun guy that isn't interested in using a bow, but would use an xbow. He also thinks the bow hunters should have no season at all.
Where do I go so see the #s somewhere showing this pea for xbows?
Thank you Bow Shot. X2!!!
What your not hearing about is who is really doing the lobbing for crossbows....If you think it sportsmen your mistakin...there is big industry money behind this push. Follow the money and you will see where this is coming from.
Hunting has turned into marketing and consumerism...
let them in and make your own choice as to what weapon you want to use legally.
Bow shot - here is one place.
http://www.nycrossbowcoalition.com/
And their Facebook page - 555 members
http://www.nycrossbowcoalition.com/
Thanks SteveBNY I'll check 'em out!
Let the disabled use them and thats it! I'll be 82 next season and still use my bow for hunting and 3D shoots, crossbows and our gov. are out as far as I'm concerned!
Hey Bob,you keep hangin out of tree stands by your feet and you'll need more than a crossbow.LMAO.Griz
he keeps getting repaired and he is better than new. had his eye redone 2 years ago and had cross hair lens put in so he could keep breaking my nocks....now has hunting shirt with button on the pocket so his cell phone will stay in when he falls from another tree stand so he can call 911 and say Help....Now if that black bear will leave him alone when he is in his pop-up blind, he set to go. That bear must be stupid as Bob has killed several with his bow over the years.
god bless you Bob and see you in the springtime in NY
SOB
I live In Mass but Hunt Archery in NY I am not a big Cross Bow Fan But saying that I just Had rotator Cup surgery and if it means hunting or not I will switch to a cross bow for the 2014 season from what I am told NY has very strict laws on cross bows and if not changed then I wouldn't be able to hunt NY archery this year and that would be sad so I hope they get changed for the ones not able to shot a Compound bow Just My 2-$$
Well deerdog143 you could ggo hunt N.J,Ohio,or Pa where the don't have greedy bow hunters who want the bow season for themselves.Ya might kill one of their deer with a xbow.Griz
Crossbow fans, would you be fine with handguns in archery season, assuming xbows were in archery season?
Whether yes or no, why?
You probably understand that this is a baited question... and I'll just be using your answers either way to illustrate a point.
Just letting you know too , I'm not at all against crossbows. As a matter of fact, I'm waaaay more into guns than archery.
bow shot -
I never really gave crossbows much thought until a shoulder injury this fall. Six weeks later I still could not pull my compound bow back back and it got me thinking more about what that would mean to lose those many weeks of beautiful fall hunting weather that I took for granted.
That being said, I'll take you up on your "handguns in archery" and say no, they do not belong in archery. The lines between hunting implements have become much less "black and white" through the years. For example -
- I have several handguns that would outshoot many rifles and would not hesitate to shoot a deer at 200+ yards with them,
- I have a muzzleloader that I shoot routinely to 200 yards and would shoot a deer at that distance if need be,
- I have a shotgun that will shoot three slugs into less than 1" at 100 yards,
- I have a compound bow that I shoot a lot and I would not hesitate to shoot a deer at 60 yards under the right conditions.
If it were up to me, it would be three weeks of primitive (longbow, recurve, flintlock or percussion - round ball w/no scopes), four weeks of archery (all primitive plus compound and crossbows), and four weeks of "any legal implement". One buck per hunter per season.
Bowshot - no.
Handguns are not archery equipment. Crossbows are.
Thanks folks, anyone else?
So folks, this is what I wanted to bring out (and failed, lol)
1) The issue is preferred implement.
2) No one wants "the other" implements in "their" season because "the other" implement isn't as primitive (defined here as, requires less skill to use, or has more effective range), and puts the user of "the other" implement at an advantage that the season was intended to exclude.
3) However, the way our republic works is that when our democratically elected representative hear enough voice, they initiate legislation to satisfy that voice.
4) So… either way it goes (pro/against whatever cause), the louder voice wins. Sometimes the voice is the populace. Sometimes its cash, media pressure, etc. Unfortunately, as statesmen in NY fail, it leans toward cash.
You want recurve only? one season all inclusive? The voice this the most mass wins.
sorry for the spelling…
I meant The voice with the most mass wins
The Gov. has released his budget proposal (link above) that includes the legislation PROPOSALS that would:
1. Legalize crossbows for big game with no "sunset clause",
2. Allow crossbows in archery seasons,
3. Reduce from 500 ft. to 150 feet the legal distance you have to be from a house, etc. to legally discharge a bow or crossbow.
No mention of crossbows for small game, but if it passes for big game I can see the day soon when they are legal for turkey, rabbit, fox, etc.....
A lot of downstate and suburban hunters would no doubt appreciate the 150 ft. law.
They can hunt 150 ft from a building now. Won't they still need permission to recover their deer from the yard of that house 150 ft away?
Who's that Steve? You mean gun? Owch!
Oh I see, bows... got it sorry, I was sleeping at the switch.
SteveBNY - 150 feet has nothing to do with anything in NY hunting law. The current law found in the hunting guidebook is below. The proposal is to reduce 500 feet to 150 feet for the DISCHARGE of bows and crossbows. This would open up areas or at least reduce problems for suburban bowhunters hunting those tight travel corridors between developments, public lands adjoining private property, etc.
"It is illegal to discharge a firearm or bow within 500 feet of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church, within 500 feet of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner's consent."
Quote: "or have the owner's consent"
Which means you can, with consent, hunt closer then 500 ft NOW. Consent from the same places that you will need to recover the animal from their property that the deer you shot 150 feet away can and will get to before dying. If you cannot get consent now to be closer than 500 ft, you really believe you will get it from those watching you 50 yds away from their deck or dining room table? Be prepared for a lot of confrontation and unrecoverable deer.
Fortunately, several of my suburban neighbors WANT me to help cull the herd, including both next door neighbors,who are within 150 feet or so. As far as recovery, if I arrow a deer and it runs further away(to a yard in which I don't have permission)I guess there is the possibility of a confrontation. Like farmers, many suburban homeowners dislike the damage deer do to their plants(ornamental,in many cases). We don't all have large properties to hunt on, funds to pay for leases, etc. Are there more confrontations with homeowners in the states that already do have the 150 foot safety zone?
Like many, above, I agree that : 1) there is no "public outcry" for crossbows other than from those that stand to profit from them; 2) disabled and elderly SHOULD be able to use them; 3) we all have our own opinions!
That being said, I remain totally against them in the general archery season and will (and have) support any initiatives AGAINST their use in the general archery season, including cash....
My $.02...
>>>>-------->
As far as I'm concerned, crossbows are NOT archery equipment!!
Its time to end this, crossbows are here to stay! The question that should be ask is what rules and WHOM IS GOING TO TEACH THE CLASS, Hunters ED or Archery ED. The EMPORER has spoken "Crossbows will be in 2014".
As we all know,money trumps everything.The crossbow lobby has plenty of it to persuade our reps in Albany and we'll most likely have to contend with xbows in archery season.Lots of gun hunters will jump on board so they can hunt during 'Bow' with a weapon that requires no practice or skill to master...the lazy mans' bow.I'll keep hunting with my stickbows.
Compound - the lazy mans bow.
I like all kinds of bows.I Do however prefer to use my longbow about 90% of the time.I also own a mathews compound and a Parker crossbow.Everyone is different and have different needs and wants pertaining to hunting.If someone wants to use compounds and crossbows that's fine with me. They have their reasons.How can a compound shooter with every bell and whisltle on his bow to make it easier be against the crossbow.I know you have to draw your bow but come on, other than that they are very similar.Like I said earlier,use what you want it really doesn't matter to me.However if the new york bowhunters keep trying to ban crossbows I will go one step futher and propose that the first 4 weeks of archery season be for recurves and longbows and then 2 weeks of mechanical bows,being the crossbow and compound.Then the compound hunters will know how the crossbow guys feel.
Iwonder how many of trhe guys dead agaisnt x bow, have shot one or hunted with one....
I feel no different in my stand with my x bow or Matthews.....
i think the x bow requires less practice which might be a good thing for some
jax2009r,your are exactly right. It is not as easy as everone thinks.The first year it was legal i shot a doe.The second year I did not get a shot.Of coarse now it is illegal again at least for now.
Who cares..we have no say in the matter as always. Big Brother does what he wants with no influence from us common folk.
Your right big brother will do what ever it wants to.
Arrowknocker82 / Silverback your right lets just give up! Just one note,how did you vote, for or against!
At the very beginning of this controversy I was against crossbows for the healthy during the regular archery season. However as time went on and after hearing arguments from all sides i changed my mind.I am a longbow hunter and I decieded it is not my place to tell anyone what type of bow they should use. Every hunter based on his or her personal circumstances,chooses a bow to fit their wants and needs.I personally do not want to prevent anyone from enjoying the wonderful time of year called the fall hunting season.
Silverback, thanks, that is the point enjoy!
Same as Silverback - I was totally against at first.
Nice words Silverback x 2.
Enjoy the woods with your personal choice of tool.
Like I said I don't care.. I kill deer every year on private land with my bow I'm blessed and thankful. I don't get worked up about this stuff like some guys do. So you go out and get your crossbows and enjoy or not. I do what I do, and I wish the same for you. By the way you will never convince me any different that we have any influence as to what the nuts do in Albany, or Washington for that matter. And yes I vote there as well, albeit continuous disappointment. Stay Classy NY
Cuomo & crossbows - whats your thoughts?
Neither belong in NY.
Funny how the latest xbow effort is placed in the budget proposal after continually being defeated over the years. Crossbows have what to do with the budget? This is a feel good move by Cuomo to win back the sportsman after his SAFE act and even worse, the crossbow supporter he just screwed is now in favor of him to get this passed. Nothing like sleeping with the enemy. Cuomo could care less about crossbows, this is just politics.
I also feel the same way as Silverback. Nicely said Silverback!
I feel the same way as adkarcher. Very well said Martin. Anyone that disagrees is not seeing things clearly.
I think adkarcher makes a point. But forgot to mention the revenue from all the gun hunters who will now buy archery license. To original post: x-guns don't belong in the archery season. (IMO)
Agree with silver back but only in part… might as well bring in rifle, if you get my drift. Illustrating the sublime with the exaggerated.
Please see my earlier post withe the 1), 2), 3) outline points for clarity.
To folks like me, its a matter of bringing a less-primitve weapon into the season, and that works to our disadvantage, that's all.
'But it all could be worse. We could all be living in Afghanistan, China, Indonesia, Chad… in Jail, languishing in the hospital, or being fired upon, beaten, or tortured by our leaders. 'Little perspective.
I'd be happy to see it all just go back to stick bow, and let disadvantaged folks have the other stuff.… but then I'd have to go back to 15 yards or less, lol!! 24 max for me now. I do indeed practice 50% of my time @ 70 yards. Absolutely.
Although recent states to allow xbows actually saw a decline in archery license sales after a couple of years. NY has increased or maintained archery license sales most every year since 1974. Not sure that is an area to mess with.
Jax1 " crossguns don't belong in archery season IMO " Just wondering if you realize there are hundreds of traditional archers that feel that compounds do not belong in archery season. Just curious how you would feel about that.
As I stated here Its time to stop this BS on crossbows and start to ENJOY! Cross bows will be here and that's that!
archer756 you have hit the nail on the head. They will be here & thats the sad part . Another mistake made by politician's. Silverback I will agree with you if they take " a poll" of "all archers" & majority will rule rather then another cram it down our throats .
If NY had a short rifle season like OH then maybe, but since NY has such a long season, why should archers have to give any more. They already lost a weekend for the Youth Hunt, which up here is nothing more than an opportunity for poach,,,,, umm, dad's to maybe fill their freezer a litle early and use their kids tags. YAY!! Anyhow, so if X-guns are allowed, that just means more guys in the woods, pushing deer around even more. Just more guys killing more deer for a longer period of time, which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the deer herd in the Northern Zone needs. We need a shorter season, so opening achery 1 Sep may happen, great.. Now people will be killing deer for over 3 months straight.. Geez.. As for me. I hunt bow only. If I get to the point where I can't pull a bow back any more, I will break out my rifle. I wouldn't need a special season or need a specail weapon to infringe on someone else's season. I could smoke a couple deer pretty easily with a rifle and wouldn't take 7 weeks to get it done either. The best analogy I can think of, is that if I like to fly fish in fly fishing only waters during thier season, if I can't use a fly rod any more, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to use my Zebco and a Rooster Tail in those same waters during thier same season. I would just wait for the regular season to open and go fishing with my spinning gear.. Jay
Question. how many of you that are complaining about cross bows made you options known at the public meetings that DEC had. Also how many wrote to your state rep as to where you stand on crossbows. It always seems that there is a lot of complaining after the fact not just on crossbow , but every time DEC wants to make something new happen. As was brought out at the last DEC Hunters Education review for instructors,we the sportsmen and sportswomen have the power to make changes. Also as was said in November election sportsmen and sports women must vote.
I wrote letters, am a member of NYB which opposes X-guns in archery seasons and brought the matter up with the DEC at every opportunity. I also informed them that if X-guns are to be taught during the Bow hunter Ed course, then I am done teaching it and doing the bidding of the state on policies I don't agree with. Just my 2 cents on that.... Oh, in reference to my fishing analogy, we had fly fishing only areas where we used to only have split bamboo rods and straight 1 to 1 ratio reels. When they came out with fiberglass and graphite rods, are they lighter, can cast farther, more precise and now some reels have a faster retrieve? Do we hear fly fishermen who still use split bamboo rods complaining about the newer more modern rods? I never have. But say that you are going to allow bait casters, spinner fishermen in those same fly fishing only stretches, you will hear something them. That is the same as letting X-guns into archery seasons. Just an opinion and observation.. Jay
"As I stated here Its time to stop this BS on crossbows and start to ENJOY! Cross bows will be here and that's that!"
However, Xbows are not here and it is time to stop the BS on xbows but the xbow lobby will not let it go. They had a season, did not support what they had and lost again when trying to gain inclusion into the archery season, as they have for years. Yet every year the same BS comes up from the same people and it gets defeated. You are right, time to let it go and stop the BS.
