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Deer farms

This is a prime close to home example why deer farms are like playing with dynomite. A little bit of greed has the potential of ruining things for everybody. It simply is not about selling a pound of deer burger.

Many thanks to the WV state chapter of NWTF for finding this.

Scary stuff.

Want to read some more on this topic? Check out the Indy Star expose on this issue.

We sportsmen had better get our act together and start calling our elected representatives to convince them they have been sold a bill of goods that this is an industry worth supporting.

And don't forget this is an election year.

Informative article. A copy should be sent to every member of the house and senate. It should be distributed to all the major TV stations and newspapers in the state.

I agree they need to see this

These articles are very revealing and I appreciate you all sharing them. I find this to be repulsive and punishable to the full extent of the law. Now I will say this, I believe captive bred and raised whitetail deer can be raised as livestock. A captive bred and raised whitetail should never be allowed to be hunted. By being captive bred and raised these animals are no longer wildlife they should be classified as livestock. By being livestock they would have to be herd certified/tested and they would be processed to USDA standards for public consumption. I believe there could be a market for this type of farming with the right regulations in place. I have never known any farmer or heard of any that takes raising, selling and butchering their livestock lightly. Farmers respect the land and they respect the livestock on that land. The people in these articles are not farmers, they are greedy individuals taking advantage of a poorly constructed policy. By doing this they give a black eye to the farming community. So to make clear my stance on deer farming I will say this. If all that I have read about how the system works now is true and I believe it is, I would have to be against it. If it becomes properly regulated as livestock and not as a game farm stocking program I would be for it.

James

I understand and appreciate your viewpoint . But if I can say a couple of things. Farmers are farmers, beef prices are high now. Farmers are going to raise beef. Sheep, chickens, hogs and such. It's hard work. From daylight to dark or whenever they get done. Out in the heat of the summer putting up hay or silage. Out on cold winter nights birthing calves. It's a hard job.

These deer farmers could care less about producing venison. If they did they would raise Red Deer which would produce twice the venison than a whitetail. Don't let them fool you, it's about antlers and semen. That's where the money is. They are not interested in selling deer burger for 4 or 5 dollars a pound. They are interested in being able to sell straws of semen for a hundred or a hundred fifty thousand dollars a straw from the right buck.

When you're talking that kind of profit more risks and corner cutting is apt to come into play.

I'll be dead, but in 30 years I don't want younger hunters looking back and asking what were they thinking?

I believe that there are some high fence areas is WV. I think they get captive deer to place inside the fence

I believe that there are some high fence areas is WV. I think they get captive deer to place inside the fence

Coming from a farming family I understand the work it takes. I just hate when some call themselves a farmer and then do the exact opposite of what it means to be a farmer. I have no problem even with selling semen, they do it all the time with typical livestock. I do not agree with selling a tame deer to a preserve to be let loose and then shot in the name of "Hunting". These animals are not wild animals they are livestock. I also feel the same about preserves buying hogs from stock sales and then turning them loose to be hunted as wild boar.

James

Dream Mountain is or was in WV..

So do they get the wild deer to run in an open gate or do they buy deer and stock their farm?

To ask a question I have wondered about. What about fish hatcheries? Are those wild fish that are caught to produce eggs and then returned to their native streams? Where does the breeding stock come from for them? Just curious.

James

Not sure how old you are mudflap, but I'd venture to guess that I was putting up hay and working with beef cattle before you were born.

I am a bit confused about it being ok to sell semen but hunting in a high fence is wrong. The ONLY reason they are using the semen is to line breed bucks for specific antler qualities that can be sold at a higher price to a fence hunter. They're not spending 150,000.00 a straw to make better deer burger.

You're right the hatcheries turn out trout for a put and take fishery. The reason they turn out mostly rainbows is because they jump and easier to catch. You buy your trout stamp and you get a few trout dinners, simple as that. You throw in the fluorescent orange dough stuff and they hit it by instinct.

Completely different fish than a wild mature brown that can tell the difference between a #26 midge and a #28 midge.

Amen gobbler

Gobbler I believe you are quite high on your figures for a straw of semen High Roller one of the highest scoring bucks in the United states for years semen sold for 10,000 dollars a straw and most of that went to texas. Some of the deer farmers would raise Red Deer also Axis and Fallow but under the DNR they can't bring these into the state since they are classified as cervids There is only 1 breeding herd of Red deer in WV and that herd was here before the DNR got their claws into the industry.

Here is a prime example of what a straw of semen would go for

I think I may have misunderstood my source of information. I think the 150,000.00 figure is the amount of total straws from 1 buck a year. Individual straws can run from 500.00 to 10,000.00 a straw. They can get 40-50 straws a year from a single buck. To get total price a year multiply amount per straw times # of total straws and get your number. 2000.00x50=100,000.00, 4000.00x40=160,000.00.

Regardless, still a lot of money can be made from a single buck per year.

I have watched this site for a few years. I would recommend that all of you visit a Deer Farm an really educate your self on Deer Farming instead of listening to self proclaimed know it all's.

I agree with you Whitetailman I have had the pleasure of visiting deer farms in OH WV and PA and helping vaccinate deer hauling deer etc. There is nothing like being close and able to handle a live whitetail either in a drop chute or darting them for whatever purpose. I was against deer farming for a long time until the late 90's when I met a deer farmer and was able to see the other side of the coin really was a head turner for myself and it would be for others

Thank you, but no thanks. I don't want to vomit.

To avoid any confusion. I know that browns aren't native to WV. I'm talking about the other thing our hatcheries do and that is stock fingerling browns. Or the streams that have wild reproducing browns and some rainbow.

Our only native is the brook, and it's a member of the char family not trout. They are pretty easy to catch and streams can be pretty much fished out by meat fishers. That's why most people that know where a good one is keeps it a secret.

Well then Gobbler that just confirms your one of the know it all's.

It doesn't confirm anything. Because I happen to disagree with deer farms, that makes me a self proclaimed know it all? I don't even know what that means??

But yes, what the deer farms are doing does make me sick.

It was'nt that long ago in human history that we didn't know what caused diseases. Only in our recent history have we been able to treat bacterial diseases.

Millions of people died from the plague before they discovered it was from fleas on rats and started taking measures to kill rats. No one knew that Malaria came from Mosquitos and taking measures to reduce Mosquitos and medicine to treat it.

We know less about viruses and influenza killed millions before we knew what caused it and how to treat flu. Only in the last few decades have we developed medicine to treat it.

We know Significantly less about prions, and we have no treatment. We know scrappie in humans is caused by sheep. We know another one can be traced from monkey to human. We know mad cow disease can be transmitted to humans from cows. We don't know if CWD can be transmitted to humans, yet? We do know that CWD is associated with deer farms. We do know that CWD was first diagnosed on a game farm. We do know that there is no live test yet.

Knowing that there's people like the story that started this thread.

How can you really beleive the increase of deer farms, or even any deer farms is a good thing?

All the deer farms that I have been to are very well maintained and the Deer are very well cared for. A good Leader always educates him/her self on both sides. They don't just post what a few bad apples do and spread fear. That kind of thinking helps no one.

You're saying that my way of thinking can help no one? What about all the people that eat deer and may have brain infections from eating deer with CWD if we discover that CWD can be transmitted to humans?

Well, I guess that those are the people.

Look, we don't even know if it can be spread to humans. Why push for more until we know more. That's the question, why?

So what do they do with the deer that are raised? Do guys hunt these deer?

They skin them and make little buckskin suits for a tribe of little Pygmy people in Africa. It's a humanitarian effort.

Yep, it's one of those Humantarian efforts to cloth Pygmy people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Makes as much sense as a group of people that for financial reasons feel that it's worth the risk of possible CWD to people in the future. To be able to be in the future 30 years from now and see the headline "CWD discovered to be transmitted to humans and responsible for 3 million deaths in the last 30 years". You would be ok with that?

As long as people have been here there's a first infection of something , bacterial, viral, prion or whatever. Aids was only diagnosed 25-30 years ago. Who knows if CWD could be next? The other known prions can. CWD could be linked anytime. I'd be willing to bet that it could? In my mind it's not worth the risk.

So why do we need deer farms? They do well enough on their own. Could it be to allow hunters to have big bucks to hunt? No thanks. God point gobblers out the CWD.

Human infections like bacteria, viruses ,prion, constantly change in order to infect us. That's why we have superbug bacterial infections and only to respond to a new expensive antibiotics. It's why we have to get a flu shot every year. The flu shot makers try to predict which strain of it is going around that year. Who is to say if the CWD isn't changing and be able to infect humans in the future? After all, they have to have a host, otherwise it dies .

Anyway, done for now. Games on.

I do not play games. I will spend my time with the people and the Deer Farmers who are working on a live test and cure while you spread fear an hide in the closet. GAME OVER

You sound pretty testy. I'm holding my head high looking for people like you. Explain the science behind the live test and cure that you are working on. In fact instead of going to look at a deer farm, why not take me to the facility where you are working on a test and cure for CWD. Tell me when and where and I'll meet you there. That sounds pretty interesting. I bet there are some of the top scientists of the world there. The CDC and people with the World Health Orginization.

Yes, that sounds fun. I am ready to go.

Oh, by the way, the game I was talking about was KY playing Wisconsin.Great game by the way KY made a 3 pointer in the last seconds to win. KY and UCONN should make for a great Championship game Monday evening. I don't play games either. If you share a concern about CWD, or possibly telling the truth( remember we don't know yet), then that is spreading fear ? Then I'm ok with that. It the Congo in the 1930s a virus mutated and jumped species from monkey to human. It happenned again in Africa in the 1960's those two were named HIV1 and HIV2. First time in the history of mankind that that virus jumped from monkey to man. And now, today we have HIV positive people, a lot have moved on to develop AIDS.

It's really interesting how everything happened . The virus weakens your immune system so much that the host usually died of a secondary bacterial infection. Kinda like a 1-2 punch on people.

Mr. Whitetail, I think you are the one with your head in the sand because you refuse to accept the truth and tell us we're spreading lies. While you may have come out of some closet, I don't have one I run to.

Waiting on the trip to the research lab.

What if you found an animal laying close to water, bloated from internal bleeding, tongue swollen blue, and blood from its mouth, nose, and eyes. What would you think of? While most everybody would think about blue tongue or E. H. Fever in a dead deer. How about Ebola? Pretty much does the same thing to people. I'm sure there were people claiming you can't catch no disease from a bat. Who woulda thought that you could get a disease from a bat that would kill you with internal bleeding and you would die with blood coming out of your eyes, mouth, nose, and every other orifice you have. Sounds weird huh? Sounds kinda like a science fiction movie ? Well it isn't. It pops up every few years and kills groups of people.

We just don't know enough about CWD to be transporting it willy-nilly throughout the country.

Let, me know about the lab trip.

I'm, going to do some work now. And that means what it says. No need to get all hyper, and worked up.

HIV was passed to humans through a chimp with simian immunodeficiency virus to a bushmeat hunter. They get blood on their hands from skinning and butchering the chimps. Kinda like what we do when we field dress and butcher a deer.

So why is thinking that could be a concern for CWD called a scare tactic by you? Who would have believed that something as simple as eating a hamburger could infect your brain with a disease that slowly rots your brain away while you flip and flop around with no control over your body? And no known treatment is available,sounded impossible before the discovery of Mad Cow disease.

Sounds like a logical, safe concern to me. But maybe your CWD lab is working on that one too. You know, since their so closely related. I can't wait to see it.

So answer me a question ? What's in it for you? Who are you working for? Buck up and answer the question with the truth like a man.

from Dr. Dave Samuel "short term gains = long term disaster"

Good points about CWD I meant to say.

I just saw where Ebola is up and running again in Africa

Is there no cure for cwd? Is there a way to test the deer alive? And its already in the wild deer? There is no way to vaccinate the deer even if there was a vacine and how could you tell which deer would have been vaccinated anyway if there was a Vacine? Are they trying to make a vacine to cure this? How long would it take to make or find a cure? You guys who live in those counties/states that are confirmed to have it, if you kill a deer do you test it before consumption? If your county has cwd has it stopped you from hunting there? Reguardless of the deer farms its already out there loose in the wild and spreading now right? with no way to stop it other than killing the deer that do have it which you can't tell were sick anyway unless they are near death anyway right? Is it already to late? Should we say to hell with the dnr and kill all the deer before it can pass to other animals? As Jr has said before the state does not care about anything but money and hey this stuff could be population control too. Scary stuff huh? Gobbler you are a doctor and you have some valid points but i ask you hiv/aids has been around 25-30 years by your post and there still is no cure right? deer do what deer do and this disease is already out there, is it already to late i mean really, what can we do? Now you will say shutdown deer farms ok but its to late its already out there in the wild with no cure and unlimited spreading potential! Maybe peta is trying to save us? And i really liked to hunt too. One last thing about the deer farms right or wrong at least those people are working and not laying around on welfare they are trying to make a living. And i'm not saying i agree with them either. There was a time when i was completely against them but If a guy wants to go there and shoot something fine i won't lose any sleep thinking about it. But i'm the guy who thinks there are way to many people now telling you what you can do or not do!

Selling straws of semen might actually help in limiting the spread of diseases. Instead of having to transport animals from one farm to another you would just send a batch of semen.

Another question, where did the deer at French Creek come from? Always wondered about that.

James

Gobbler - I see where you are coming from and for myself I would not want to run a deer farm nor hunt in a fenced in area.

BUT.....LOL and I know you will think here that idiot goes again arguing with me....

if a deer farmer went by the books and did everything possible to prevent the spread of disease and treated the animals humanely - would you agree he has a right to be in business?

I mean because of a few bad apples do you stop an industry? Would gun control sort of not be the same thing as saying no to deer farming? Because a few crazies who go out and shoot up a movie theater or school then we ban guns?

Man I tell you somethings are just deep - I am not saying that I disagree with you either that maybe deer farms should not be allowed - but I have always thought that we should be allowed to do whatever we want as long as we don't hurt others - and then you punish the ones who don't operate in a good way. I would tend to sway towards letting the person run a deer farm if they did everything possible to prevent the spread of a disease - but then you as well as anyone know how quickly a disease can spread and how hard it would be to control. Gotta to admit this one has me stumped!

Man there has been some good and hot topics on this site here lately!

I absolutely believe in property rights. But we just passed a law that people couldn't own lions,tigers, and bears because that zoo owner in Ohio went nuts and released dozens of potential man killing animals out . Funny how all these kind of things seen to happen in Ohio where there are so many game farms. I think people have property rights, but with that right comes a responsibility that you don't do something on your land that can be dangerous to your neighbors, or to the wildlife on adjoining property.

I don't have a right to grow marijuana on my farm, or to run a meth lab in my barn. If you had several kids, would you want your neighbor raising grizzly bears on his farm. Would you like to have a bioweapon facility next door ?

Property rights in a civilized society comes with some responsibility to society.

As far as the welfare portion. First is someone owns enough land to turn it into a deer farm. They shouldn't be on welfare anyway . And how are they going to afford all the fencing, pens, purchase of the deer, mandatory testing, and on and on?

If they have enough money to do all that in order to start a deer farm, why are they on welfare? And as far as keeping people off welfare, people can make a lot of money making and selling meth. I don't think a defense of "I was doing it so I wouldn't have to go on welfare" defense is going to make it very far.

Is it too late already? Good question!! Nobody knows, no one know if it will travel throughout the rest of the state. It might, or maybe someone will discover a vaccine, or a treatment in the future? Who knows?

But I do know that if that happens it would be easier to deal with in a 2 or 3 county area, than in multiple sites throughout the state if more potentially infected deer escaped from deer farms.

And that's a big part of the question, not knowing enough of a disease, while transporting it throughout the country. Would you rather find out that CWD can be transmitted to people while it was in a couple of counties or when it is known to be in all 55 counties?

Mudflap, what if it is discovered that semen contains CWD prions? We know that it's concentrated in brain and spinal tissue. Again, concentrated there does'nt mean that it's not in other parts of the body. Since semen contains genetic material, who's to say it dosen't carry CWD prions as well? Can anyone provide studies and data that proves 100% that it dosen't?

Can't prove a negative. Can you prove with 100% certainty that it does? Of course not. Therein is the rub. You, more than anyone here knows full well decisions are not made on conjecture, perhaps, maybe's and probably's. Decisions are made from facts and everything else is considered anecdotal.

Until the science has that 100% certainty, just figure on a continued rhubarb between DNR and AG, and benefactors on both sides.

If a cattle farmer was raising cattle with mad cow disease it would be shut down. He would be denied his right to make a living

If a cattle farmer was raising cattle with mad cow disease it would be shut down. He would be denied his right to make a living

Dr. J.R.,

If his cattle were diagnosed with Mad Cow, he’d loose his right to make a living with “those” cattle for sure.

Just for the sake of curiosity—maybe, I’d suggest some of you do a little research into Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. You see.... I’m convinced that CWD, Scapie, and Mad Cow have already made the transition from critter to humans. Only problem is, it doesn’t make any difference what I think, and it’ll never make any difference what I "think"….. until the science has made a determination with 100% certainty, it's just blow.

It's like those two old little ladies in Esurance commercial. "It's not how it works, It's not how any of this works."

I am aware of those diseases. Don't humans get CJ disease now? My point about the cattle was that guys say people should be able to deer farm to make a living when we know the deer herd can be infected with CWD. And I like you believe that humans can get these diseases which is why I am against deer farms. I wouldn't eat a deer that I knew had CWD. I am not yet paranoid enough to completely stop eating deer meat. What about people that used to eat squirrel brains? Remember that? I do. I wouldn't eat those because of CJ disease. And you are right. It doesn't matter what we think.

And that's the point! Don't make the same mistake of assuming that nothing will happen like they did with Mad Cow. Wouldn't it have been better if someone had said "hey guys, maybe we shouldn't be feeding cattle the brains and spinal tissue of other cows " before people started dying from Mad Cow disease .

Mr. Casto, I'm well aware of the prion diseases. That's why I don't think transporting potentially infected deer or semem all over the place is a wise thing to do. I am also amazed about how much we don't know about prion diseases.

Mudflap, we know that bacterial infections can be spread thru semen, we know that viral infections can be spread. That's why Universal precautions are used in the medical community because all forms of bodily fluids and other matter can be infectious. Why is it unreasonable to be concerned that prions may be transmitted in semen?

Some of you guys seem to forget Deer Farms test all deer that die for cwd 100% there has NOT been 1 test positive on a Deer Farm in WV.

Why do we need deer farms anyway? There are plenty of sources for venison. Oh wait, some hunters like to hunt tame deer. LOL.

Whitetail person, we haven't forgotten anything. We're not worried about a dead deer. We're worried about live deer that may be transported to WV from states that HAVE had CWD.

You're point about not a single deer has tested positive in a WV deer farm is right to the best of my knowledge and is the strongest evidence I have heard yet that shows the WVDNR is going a great job of protecting our native herd of deer and as why it should stay under the DNR rather than with the Agriculture department and it's plan to allow interstate movement of deer.

You need to work on that talking point, but I think you are trying to do a good job of pitching out your talking points. The problem is not your presentation of the messages, it's just that your messages are wrong and fail to pass any logical scrutiny.

Again, what's your angle? Who in your family or friends benefit from loosening the restrictions on deer farms? If not, why do you think it is reasonable to possibly expose more deer and people to a disease we know very little about?

Oh, by the way when can we tour that CWD research facility?

JR on Deer Farms that are operated correctly only the Bucks that are used as Breeders will be Tame. The Trophy Bucks that they sell to the hunting preserves will be just as wild as any deer that you kill at your feeders

I got chased by a black angus bull one time. It had a "wild" look in its eyes.

I guess as long as the deer "acts" wild, that makes it ok to chase it around in a 5 acre pen to shoot it makes it ok?

I still want to know why you won't respond to my questions?, and why, since you invited us to visit a deer farm, why you won't respond to a request to visit the facility where they are working on a live test and cure? Maybe it's a "trade secret", to be able to profit from what deer farmers helped develop in the first place,but I don't know because you won't respond to me.

Ignoring my questions is not going to work. It may make people question if you're not being truthful or hiding something.

BTW, the NCAA basketball championship "game" is on tonight!

Why do we need deer farms anyway? There are plenty of sources for venison. Oh wait, some hunters like to hunt tame deer. LOL.

Yep like lee and Tiffany and all the other clowns on TV no difference they are TAME!!!!!!

No positive cwd test on game farms? But cwd is in WV in the wild deer population and this is documented and you believe the dnr is doing a great job! Where did it come from? Sorry I cannot share your opinion on the dnr doing a great job.

The first deer to be diagnosed with CWD was not a deer farm deer to anyone's knowledge. The DNR or AG. Dept. cannot stop and check every deer that cross into WV from bordering states.

Crossing into WV like the elk that crossed into The northern panhandle of WV last year from a PA cervid facility, which by the way is under control by the PA Dept of Agriculture and their "stringent " control over the fenced cervid facilities guidelines.

The truth to the matter is no government orginization can control certain events like floods, derachos, tornados, or other wind and weather events that can destroy even the best law abiding facilities to the average fencing of some deer farmers. They also can't detect ahead of time, any farmer that may be going thru a divorce, have drug or alcohol problems, a gambler that needs quick cash, or even some one that may just get greedy.

There's already too much risk with issues like that( one of which started this thread) to support, much less rapidly increase the number of them throughout the state.

Limbhanger, I think another way to look at is that it would have been best to never open that door on the barn, which is the approach a lot of states took, or they outlawed any new cervid facilities and are letting the previous ones grandfather out and not be re-licensed in any other name. Which, by the way is a great option. But the barn door is open now and the DNR has not had any positive CWD results in deer farms under their control. Now, if that changes in the future, then my opinion may change. But for now, I think it is best, especially considering the track record of some deer farms in other states that are under the control of that states Dept. of Agriculture, and especially to not open any more doors on the barn. And even more so as in the example of Buckhorn Flats in Wisconsin where the DNR gets stuck footing the bill every year to try and control the mistakes of the Ag. Dept.

Remember the saying "History repeats itself". The first time is forgivable because it's something that has never happened before. The second time is not forgivable because people knew better and chose to ignore it.

Does this sound like small landowners that just want to make a little supplemental income from their land from being able to sell deer steaks and burger?

In my humble opinion it looks more like legal blackmail to me. Unfortunately, its using State DNR money that could have been used to benefit the public in a lot of different ways instead of padding the bank account of a "deer farmer".

Maybe I'm looking over it but I can't find anywhere where the "deer farmer" is helping fund a potential research facility for CWD research.

Whitetail man, maybe you missed this one. Dosen't sound like the deer here were "very well cared for". Maybe you can run back to where you're getting your talking points from and see how they want to handle those facts. You can report back later with something other than talking points, and see if you can handle a debate with facts and the truth, if they can provide you with any?

As a final note, DATCP is the name for Wisconsin's Dept. of agriculture.

So are the deer free ranging? If not then not my cup of tea. To each his own though.

No they are not free ranging. If there was a live test that had both a high confidence of specificity and sensitivity, I wouldn't be as concerned. But there isn't.

So my question is why should a relatively small group of people want to potentially bring a disease into the state that could forever change our priveledge of hunting Non CWD infected deer, and possibly ruin our deer hunting heritage in the state?

There are very few of them. We have 3-4 hundred thousand of legal hunters that want to be able to hunt healthy wild whitetail. If we all could get our act together and become educated on the subject and tell our friends and family and get everyone to let their House and Senate members know how we feel, then it can be squashed like the prion it is. If we don't I feel that in the future that we may very well be dealing with more CWD containment zones throughout the state.

Good read for those that think I've just been running off at the mouth.

Before some people say "look the people disagree with the "DNR, remember , they were responding to a disaster. How would you like it if the DNR tried to wipe out all the deer in your area that you hunt. A lot of people complain that in areas the population has been cut back too much already with them trying to get the herd under control for the habitat and to get a better buck/doe ratio. Imagine how would you feel if they were actually trying to kill every deer that was there? I don't think most would like it. I know I wouldn't.

So why risk it in the first place? Like they said they are learning more about prion diseases every day, and there is still a valid concern that prions could mutate to be able to infect humans.

White tail man, is this research going on at your facilities? I'm even more interested in touring it now.

You know, if they ever come out with a valid scientific blood test that was specific and sensitive enough to test deer that may be brought into the state or between facilities I might not be so concerned about it, even though I disagree 100% with what they do, and the high fence hunting that is promoted by it. But before then, I still think they are playing with dynamite .

If its so much about the spread of disease why aren't the DNR asking for random sampling from other counties in WV. I would have no problem supplying the DNR with the brain stems off the deer I kill here so testing could be done. Gobbler also I feel like the DNR is trying to wipe the deer herd out in Jackson Co 6 weeks of rifle doe seasons EHD hit here twice in 3 yrs and reduced the herd by at least 50% IMO Did they curtail the slaughter NO because its not about the deer its about the all mighty dollar

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service of the USDA So I still can't figure out why you think we are better off being regulated by the DNR who doesnt have this kind of funding

APHIS to Offer Indemnity for CWD Positive Herds as Part of Its Cervid Health Activities March 03, 2014 WASHINGTON, D.C. — APHIS received a total of $3 million in appropriated funding to support cervid health activities in fiscal year 2014, and it will make $1 million available for indemnity of chronic wasting disease (CWD) positive, suspect, and exposed farmed cervids.

APHIS is committed to partnering with states and industry to reduce the incidence of CWD in farmed cervid populations. The availability of indemnity funds provides support to affected producers to protect the health of farm cervids and to minimize the spread of CWD to other cervid populations.

Several CWD positive and exposed herds are currently under state quarantine in Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin. APHIS has engaged all three states to see if they plan to request indemnity on behalf of the herds' producers.

Indemnity will be based on the APHIS-approved appraised value of the animals as well as depopulation and disposal costs. In order to be eligible for indemnity, states need to provide herd plans in accordance with APHIS' established CWD regulatory requirements (9 CFR 55).

APHIS is also providing $200,000 in support of CWD research efforts at the Agency's National Wildlife Research Center to develop live animal diagnostic tests. The remaining funding for APHIS' cervid health programs will support the Cervid Tuberculosis Accreditation Program, the CWD voluntary Herd Certification Program, and general program activities.

It sounds to me that you have to have a CWD positive facility to recieve funds? So you think it's better to bring it here and hope to get a positive test so we can get funds for it?

I read it again and that's what it sounds like to me. Why not keep it from getting here in the first place? That would be better than having to apply for funds to help clean up a mess.

That sounds like hoping for a natural disaster like a deracho or tornado so we can get federal disaster aid???? You have to be kidding me?

USDA is not the WV dept. Of agriculture. Did you even read the articles I posted. They both occurred in states that were under control of that states Dept. Of Agriculture. If Ohio and Wisconsins Ag. Departments let deer farms get that bad or have that poor of control, WHAT makes you think WV Dept. Of Ag. Do a better job???

My bet is that you don't. You just want it with the Ag. Department because you( for whatever reason) hope it will loosen restrictions on the deer farms and allow interstate transport of deer in spite of the inherent risk to our wild deer herd and potentially to people.

Is your fund going to pay funeral expenses and support the families of people if CWD does mutate and make the jump from deer to human?? Or is that just the price to pay to create a 300 class buck so it can be made to ejaculate so you can get your straws of semen to sell?

After reading it again it looks like the indemnity money will go to the deer farmer based on the appraised value of his deer, and help with cleanup and decontamination.

Exactly, how do you decontaminate the area??

Guess what? Nobody knows yet! Nor do they know how long prions remain dormant in the soil. The only positive thing I can see is they are spending some money to help develop a test .

I didn't see anything about compensating any possible victims from any health concerns from CWD, or any help if CWD is released into the wild deer population.

So, your article is basically saying if a deer farm operator somehow gets CWD in his herd them he will get paid for his animals and help clean his place up until the DNR has to take over and spend its money to maintain a quarantine of the property as noted in the buckhorn flats article.

Yes, I can see how the general population and hunters can see what a great thing that is. I can see it in the paper. Deer Farmer gets paid a couple hundred thousands dollars for bringing diseased deer into WV.

That is a great PR piece. I would run with that, I think it will really help your cause.

Oh look, in the paper today bacon prices rides 10% after a virus never seen in the US has killed millions of baby pigs in the last year with very little known about how it spreads, or how to stop it.

They think it came from China and has spread to at least 27 states. I guess the USDA had to approve them to bring into the states. I know both times I've brought warthog trophies from Africs they had to go thru a seperate inspection by the USDA.

Since AG departments are the ultimate gate keepers of keeping any bad diseases out of the US, much like state AG Depts. Keep out any diseases out their states. How could this happen???

The general population is going to have to pay at least 10% more for pork. I just hope they have a special fund to pay the pig farmer top dollar for. The pigs they lost.

The more I look at that it looks like a public funded insurance policy for deer farmers. With only a small percentage going towards research. Can you explain how that is good for the citizens of WV at large.

BTW the DNR does do random testing for CWD throughout the state by picking up road killed heads to have them tested for CWD.

For full disclosure Sam what is in this for you. I may be wrong but I seem to remember a cousin of yours is a deer farmer? Is that right.

Myself, I have no skin in the game other than trying to get the truth out to people so they can really understand the business of deer farms, and the inherent dangers that can be associated with them.

I've seen the state go from where the only deer hunting in the state was in a few of the eastern mountain counties to where we have good huntable populations in every county.

I would hate to see that change to where they might have to try to extirminate deer in areas and it affect our hunting heritage.

Thats what you get for eating that pork. hahaha. LOL. everything bad comes from China

I know but General Tso's chicken is really good over pork fried rice. So what do you do?

Well I guess we could eat Deer Meat from a deer Farm. We know it has to be tested. I would question a road kill test being accurate. Seems to me that Deer Farms are the best way to monitor farms and wild deer

You guess that you could eat deer meat from a deer farm???????

I thought that was the big lobbying effort for the legislature? That was why the deer farmers put on a big venison lunch for the legislature ?? Maybe the smoke screen is fading and the truth that it's all about genetically manipulated antlers and money??? Is that what you are saying??

How do you propose doing testing all the wild deer? Post trees throughout the forest instructing all wild deer to report to the nearest deer farm for testing? And how do you propose to test the wild deer since there is no live test for CWD? And technically a dead deer isn't really wild anymore, it's dead. But maybe your secret lab has a way to do it? Thanks, but no thanks, I'll happily use the lab that the DNR uses.

Seems to me the best thing to do is close them all down and let that sad part of human history fade into the past.

Go get another talking point and come back and try again. But be more careful the next time, you about let this one catch you.

Whitetailman, I have no problem with anybody that runs a business that makes money, even a lot of money. But, it has to be done in a ethically and morally right way. Deer farming is putting the wild deer population at risk. CWD has already infected wild deer in several states including WV. The same wild whitetail that was at risk of extinction in the not too distant past. The North American Wildlife Model brought many species that were threatened with extinction due to unregulated hunting and market hunting. Deer farming is a complete contradiction to the wildlife model that helped stop that. It's also becoming more likely that CWD prions may be able to adapt and infect humans.

Who is going to take responsibility for that if, or more likely when that happens?

It's like a drug cartel claiming no responsibility for drug addition, theft, murder, and overdose deaths of drugs they sell.

We can debate all day long regarding the ethics of High fence hunting.

But, let's cut to the chase.

If CWD does make the jump to humans are you willing to accept the responsibility and live comfortably with yourself and your family knowing that the business you promote may lead to the suffering of people while their brain rots away and they die with their families standing by, knowing there's no treatment for it? Are you going to be able to look in your children's eyes with them knowing that you promoted the business that was responsible for it?

Will you at least answer that for me? Because after the whole debate is broken down that is the REAL concern. It's not a scare tactic, it's a real, valid, scientific concern, and your side appears to blow it off like the concern isn't real, but a "scare tactic".

gobbler

Just a FYI note:

In the last couple of days a deer from a deer farm in northwest PA, outside of any known previously infected zone has tested positive for CWD. The deer had previously been housed at another deer farm in PA.

This shows that infected deer continue to show up in deer farms despite the "testing of all deer" required by the PA dept. Of Agriculture.

I dont have a cousin thats a deer farmer theres nothing in it for me other than trying to get the message to people that deer farming isn't as bad as others make it out to be. Sure there are rogues everywhere but there's way more honest people than not just like in every area. I know where that info came from and I wouldnt put much stock in what that guy has to say anyway. But if the DNR are picking up road kill deer to test them are they more than 12 hrs old if not then the sample isnt viable or at least thats the standards that deer farmers are held to unless the head is kept chilled until pick up. I dont want any disease introduced into the state but if a farm is 5 yr CWD monitored TB and Brucellois tested then under these standards they should be allowed to import cervids as long as the farms they are coming from have the same standards. When I raised sheep and goats I had an honor flock which required the state dept of ag rep to come to my house and inspect my herd for any disease along with my vaccination records when I got my cert it was from the USDA since they are the controlling body. I know I can never change anyones mind that is as dead set against it as you are. But there maybe some more open minded people reading this that may look into it.

One last question and I'll leave you alone. As in the notice that I just posted about the deer in NW PA . Apparentlely it must have been inspected and tested before it was transferred between facilities. And this was with the PA dept. Of Agriculture and deer farmer using the proper regulations. But yet it ended up testing positive for CWD.

Which means apparentlely , in spite of all the testing that the PA Dept. Of Ag. Does and requires it slipped thru.

So, what prevents that from happening here in WV? Especially since the deer farmers want to bring deer farm deer into the state?

It's a risk that I don't think is worth it considering the potential ramifications.

Despite all this, why can't you wait until a live test is developed before you want to bring potentially infected deer into the state?

That would be the logical and safe approach in my mind.

Apparentlely the DNR in coordination with the DOT has worked out a system, especially during the rut in Nov. Because of all the deer that are killed on the road during November it is very cool or cold at night. But a proper lab can say yes, this deer brain shows CWD, or no, this deer tests negative for CWD.

Here is ted nugents response to deer farming. thought it was interesting.

I would'nt expect anything different from a long term game farm owner like "whack em and stack em".

what about his "real world hands on deer masters" that he talks too?

I don't know. I was in a bear camp with him in N.B. For a week several years ago. He was nice to everyone and treated everybody like he had known him for years . While I'm sure he got a good stand he didn't act like a Prima Donna. He hung around and talked to everybody and played guitar and sang a few songs.

I had never heard anybody claim EHD was caused by deer farms. I don't know of any association of deer farms and EHD. As far as I know its a naturally occurring event from midges and will affect game farm and wild deer equally.

I think Ted is usually an outspoken pro-gun and pro-hunting advocate. Although I think he gets a little over the top on the "spirit" part of it. He also has a couple of "questionable" game violations that he has to carry around.

EHD effects deer in the wild. It has wreaked havoc on the Milk River where I hunt in Montana.,

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