It has come to this....
New York
Both the NYS Assembly and House approved the use of crossbows as legal hunting implements starting in 2014 during the Firearms Season, last 14 days of the Southern Zone Archery Season and during (I believe) the last 10 days of the Northern Zone Archery Season, plus the Muzzleloader Season. I was fine with the Crossbow in the firearms and muzzleloader seasons. Or it's own season in JANUARY. Now the woods will be flooded with Cross - GUN hunters the last two weeks of the Archery Season. Good Luck New York, Glad I'm moving South.
SteveMcD have any note of how one will be license.
Its supposedly on the NY Outdoor News website. I read about it on a weekly blog from a bowshop....
I'm not a happy camper. The grossguns should be allowed for elderly/handicapped and thats all. But, nobody asked me.
>>>>----->
Pretty much expected from a state that has Bozo Cuomo heading it up.
Yep, I'll be moving as soon as I can as well.
Might as well make it an all weapons season and leave it open year round. They obviously have no concern for the resource.
Citidiots....sheeesshhhh..
DEC does not have Regulatory Authority over the crossbow. Crossbows legal for those 14 and older only. Crossbows legal to use during last 14 days of SZ archery and last 10 days of NZ archery. Crossbows legal to use during small game and Regular Season. Set back for Archery tackle 150', set back for crossbows 250'. Crossbows NOT legal in Suffolk or Westchester Counties. Sold out by the Governor, the Republican Leadership, The IDC, and the DEC. They think that this will save them from SAFE Act fallout.
Special thanks to Assemblyman Robert Sweeney and his office for going above and beyond to protect the integrity of the archery season.
Crossbows are for children , elders, or disabled. If you hunt with a crossbow you should fall into that bracket otherwise it's pure laziness. I am passionate about bow hunting and spend hours and hours practicing just to get my time in the woods before Joe shmow down the road. I am not fortunate enough to hunt much private land therefore, I cherish the little company I have during bow season on public property. Now that is gone! I am very disappointed in NY state and their "conservation" practices. Children will now grow up shooting the crossbow and compound will be the traditional way of archery hunting. New York has done this solely to earn extra money from license fees. What's next, pistols during archery season?
Great news and it's about time NY joins the rest of the nation allowing your personal choice of equipment to harvest our game.
Not trying to start a fight here but I think if we keep our personal harvest numbers in line then we can all still enjoy the woods together.
Or: Compounds are for children , elders, or disabled. If you hunt with a compound, you should fall into that bracket otherwise it's pure laziness.
I shoot a longbow but I believe the weapon one chooses is up to them.I have friends that can't pull a bow and need the crossbow to keep hunting.Those that complain about the ease of use and laziness of crossbow hunters, remember it all started when they allowed compounds during archery season,This is just an extention of that line of thinking.
My opinions as a lifetime sportsman, archery and muzzleloader license holder:
1. Everyone, regardless of which side, should be MOST concerned as the power to regulate hunting, etc. continues to be taken AWAY from the DEC. This is a perfect example. Originally, the DEC was going to simply be given the ability to regulate hunting with crossbows. Instead, special interests (like NY Bowhunters and the Crossbow Coalition) undoubtedly got involved with their legislators, resulting in a hodgepodge of crossbow rules that lack some common sense. A friend of mine works for the DEC and trust me, they were not happy with the meddling. A perfect example is there is no use of crossbows in any area where there is no regular gun season for deer. This excludes some of the most highly deer populated areas of the state where there aren't enough bowhunters to even make a dent - Suffolk and Westchester Counties, plus WMU 4J (Albany) and 8X (Monroe). Places full of anti-hunters who can accept hunting if it keeps them from hitting a deer with their car. How much sense does it make to exclude crossbow deer hunting in Suffolk but at the same time allow some private company come in and do a cull of 1,000 deer as is happening now? (A cull that does not even focus strictly on antlerless deer.)
2. It's funny how people are when "the shoe is on the other foot". From what I've heard, NY Bowhunters and company were head over heels when they got the season extended two weeks earlier to Oct. 1, then they cried about the youth season during Columbus Day weekend and now they have to SHARE the end of the early archery seasons (rut) with crossbow hunters and it's an outrage. Just goes to show that you still don't get nothin' for free anymore - there will always be a payback due.
3. Last fall towards the end of archery season I injured my shoulder. Didn't think much of it until the weekend rolled around and I was unable to pull back my bow anymore. Not even close. A real eye opener for me about the added value of another hunting implement. I've since recovered, but see things different now.
Bottom line is if you don't like crossbows, don't allow them on your land. If you hunt public, it won't be much different than sharing the land with dog walkers, bird watchers, hikers, small game hunters, etc.
Question! How many that are on this tread have shoot a crossbow?
I have never shot a crossbow. I don't need one at this point in my life. If someone wants one go for it. Each of us on our own path through life. Some farm deer and some hunt free range deer, whatever floats your boat. Life is way too short, don't sweat the small stuff.
Yes sweet the small stuff! the question was how many have ever shoot a crossbow! How can some one complain if they have NEVER SHOOT A CROSSBOW. It would be nice to know what one is talking about. This is just like our government talk is cheap!
Big tent theories are for big dummies.
I have shot one and despise them. They are not a bow and should not be in any bow season.
Don't forget it is the perception of us as hunters by the 80% non-hunters that will dictate our future. The cross-gun just makes us all look like lazy people whose only agenda is to kill something at any cost. Not to match wits with a wily game animal and to enjoy the outdoors. The cross-gun just gives the perception of kill, kill, kill. PERIOD! The 80% will take away our right to hunt if they percieve the game to have no chance at all. The cross-gun is a step in that direction. Again, when we go down this road the seasons will all be merged into one all weapons season and the public will see it for what it has become. A kill fest.
Give us a traditional archery season for people who like to hunt and mix the rest together. Sheessshhh!
quote: "Give us a traditional archery season".
Traditional? You mean longbow/recurve only?
I have never even held a crossbow and I don't intend to! But I will NEVER...... repeat..... NEVER tell anyone that they can't! That's just stupid!
This is hunting plain and simple and if it bothers you that someone might enjoy using a Crossbow, I think you need some counseling!
Get over it already!
NYbowmaan,You mentioned you would like to see a traditional archery season and then all the rest. How about this? First 3 weeks traditional bows only ie: recurves,longbows and selfbows.Next 3 week all mechanical bows ie: compounds and crossbows. NYS bowhunters want to retain the purity of the sport. This should do it and still allow everyone to partisipate.
I hunt in a 3 point or better zone in NJ and it was great until they introduced crossbows. Quality and number of deer have gone down since introduction. 3 point or better was really working. Guys are taking unethically long shots because they have a trigger. At least I dont hear gun shots at 11:00pm any more. Letting the crossbows to be utilized in bow season is not going to help deer quality or numbers. The state cant actually patrol the woods to see who is using a compound versus a crossbow. Last year in my NY spots I was seeing for the first time in years some decent deer numbers and quality. This is not going to be a positive but only a money maker for a state with a declining hunter population. Its all about the buck$.
SteveBNY great that means only flint locks in muzzle loader season, NO INLINES or CAP LOCKS
I'd like to see a special crossbow season that includes rifle.
I have been reading your your posts and understand most of your. Fears and concerns ,but most of you put down your bow and grab your firearm when the freezer is still empty,which is your choice. Make the law read like in some states you choose your weapon of choice in the start of the season and that's it, plus one buck only that will weed out the slob hunters.
Dont be haters for no good reason but greed. "I dont want to share my woods" come on give me a break. If someone chooses to use a crossbow so be it. Im glad they are giving us more than taking it away. The thing I find dumb is they dont allow it where deer populations need to be thinned out the most. I hunt state land as well as private............ This will not ruin hunting.
why draw the line at xbows?
If I don't want someone plopping in my house, that's not greed. But it is selfish and uncharitable for them to do that if they are not welcome. However, I will likely make them feel at home and sacrifice my plans and schedule to their pleasure.
That's how I feel about this xbow thing...Ie., someone is bound to use their advantaged weapon in my less-advanced weapon season. Happy for ya.
So someone is infatuated with crossbows and wants to use one. Fine, good, happy for you. Use it in shotgun or rifle like I use my (compound) in shot gun (I never use a gun in deer season). Or go hassle the gubmint for your own special season (like the bow guys did).
No handicap? Then why don't' you just use a BOW in bow season like everyone else? Why are you so special? Does the whole class have to go without lunch just because your mom packed baloney for you and you don't like it and won't eat it?
Don't go there about sticks… I shoot both, and would be fine if it all went back to traditional. I'd have to give up 10 more yards, but THE PLAYING FIELD WOULD BE EQUAL.
Don't go there about old or handicapped folks. NO ONE wants them left out, and EVERYONE is for letting them have crossbows whenever they want to use them.
Sorry (only slightly) about the tone.
I personally won't use one. I too have used a bow during gun season and didn't pick up a gun for a few years. .......... Hunted bow ONLY. Letting someone hunt with a crossbow is not going to ruin your hunting. How many guys do you know that gun hunt only and will now crowd your spots when they switch to crossbow. Be realistic. Not many.
Question! How many that are on this tread have shoot a crossbow? How is that someone that has never shot one knows that it will wrack hunting! OH I forgot that we are all experts!
Bowshot,
Be glad they don't get there own special season. Imagine those last 14 days of archery season CROSSBOW only!
Did you really think Oct 1st came without compromise?
Come on, it was only a matter of time that this was going to happen since the compound bows kept getting better every year. With the let off , and speed and mechanical broadheads they got so technologically advanced that they blurred the line between them and crossbows. Same thing is happening with muzzleloaders which are basically now a single shot rifle.
SteveBNY, you know, the junk you spout of with about the X-bow does get old. Tell me please.. When fly fishers used split bamboo rods, braided horse hair lines, fished primarily dry flies, and had special flyfishing only zones, I am sure that they didn't carp about people fishing with fiberglass or graphite rods with the new dacron lines, using nymphs. Or did they? Even though the the new materials can cast farther and are more precise, the action and movement are the same.
Saying that X-guns belong in archery season is sort of like saying that a Zebco 404 loaded up with 8lb test and a Pheobe or worms, belong on a flyfishing only stretch of river.
The difference between hunting with archery equipment and X-guns is so vast, the inability to see it baffles me.
It's sort of like saying that there is no difference between Presidents Regan and Obama. They are both Presidents, except the actions are one totally different, one tried to save the nation, the other is trying to destroy it.. Just saying. Jay
And Jay, you know, the weak attempts to defend blatant hypocrisy gets old too. It baffles me how someone chooses to hunt with a compound because they needs/want easier than traditional, but find something wrong with someone else's ARCHERY equipment. The difference between us is I don't care you or anyone else needs/wants ARCHERY equipment easier to use than mine.
Personally I am not a crossbow fan But I had rotator cup surgery this winter and hope to be able to pull my compound back by Aug but if not I will have to purchase a Crossbow because if it means hunting or not I will use one so i guess I am glad it mad it a little easyier to use one in NY I really enjoy my hunting in Ny
I have to agree with SteveBNY last post.A compound is so very much easier in so many ways to shoot accurately compaired to a longbow or recurve.If it wasn't why would anyone shoot one? Why is it okay to allow a compound given it is much easier to shoot and then ban a crossbow because that bow is easier to shoot.I can't understand it.
Well stated Jay...simple answer to you Silverback is because a compound is a bow...looks like a bow, draws like a bow, held like a bow...crossbow is not even close in fact it looks like a gun, held like a gun...
longbeard you forgot shooting sticks, scopes, manufactor's claims about 60 yd 2 inch groups out of the box and hyper speedy arrows with super heavy draw weights which need to be winched back (and then holds it for you !)..thats not a bow, its a gun...Tom
Some of these arguments are getting pretty stupid.
Promote hunting with any implement! It's all fun!
pogo that's putting it lightly, as I have stated in this tread "How Many Have Shoot a Cross Bow" until one shoots a cross bow, how on earth does one make comments as to what one can and cannot do!
Longbeard,your correct it is drawn like a bow and to me it looks similar to a bow, But to me it is a mechanical device that was designed to make accuracy easier and with near instant gratification. Those qualities can not be denied. People shoot them because they are fast and accurate. Crossbows are easy to shoot and are fast and accurate,Oh.I forgot you don't have to draw a crossbow. Big friggin deal.
New York bow hunters have more to worry about other than what we choose to hunt with, maybe we should work on these problems instead.
- The unethical slob hunter, you know the one that takes more than the legal limit - The one that steals our stands and cameras - The one shows no respect for landowner's rights - the archer who can't hit the broadside of a barn,but who slings arrows any thing seen - getting regulations that give us sensible, sound deer programs for New York
final thought: If you don't like crossbows DO NO USE ONE!
I picked up a crossbow a few times to check them out. Truthfully I think it's easier to hunt with a compound bow. Crossbows are heavy and ridiculously cumbersome. It may be pre drawn but how do you even move that bulky equipment around to line up the cross hairs without being spotted. If you doubt me pick one up and imagine being up in a tree with one of them on a hook then having to unhook it and maneuver it into position. Drawing a bow while 20' up in a tree is not that monumental a task............
Like I said before I would not hunt with one UNLESS I couldn't draw a regular bow but am all for giving more options to others.
Is it really true that everyone also gets a trophy and certificate for playing in the bow season now? Kinda what it feels like....
Watch you archery season buck kill increase faster than overall kill or rifle kill numbers.
I am president of the United Bowhunters of PA and our people predicted an increase in buck kill more than five years ago when our archery season became a crossbow and archery season. Those numbers have crept up just as we predicted and now at least one of our Commissioners is suggesting reducing the length of archery season if the numbers continued to increase.
At least AT THIS TIME the crossbows have not invaded the entire archery season but that will soon fall too. The wannnabees will not be satisfied.
In PA the vote to approve was a slim 5 to 3 because one Commissioner insisted magnifying scopes would not be permitted, but when the others agreed, he gave them the fifth vote they needed.
AS TO WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE SOME OF THESE CROSSBOW PROPONENTS ARE........BEFORE THE FIRST CROSSBOW SEASON, THEY CHANGED THE SCOPE RULE BUT DID NOT ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER TO TAKE BACK HIS VOTE.
His vote was stolen on a promise the wannabees never kept for even one season!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was shameless and low, just like poaching.
I recognize crossbows as legitimate arms for hunting, and perhaps bowhunters need to share some of their season just as firearm hunters do, but not full inclusion for the entire season.
And for full disclosure, I used a crossbow handicap permit before they were legal in what was previously an archery season. I had my rotator cuff torn up and underwent surgery. I got two doe before I could even cock the crossbow, my son had to cock it for me. However, I do not count those in my bow kills, they were now and did not feel like bowkills.
The two doe were a piece of cake, point and click. I continued to rehab throughout Pennsylvania's 6 week long season and was able to shoot my bow by the last four days, although I still had a legal and valid crossbow permit. I hunted the last two days with my bow and with ten minutes left on the last day I shot a wide six point buck. Although I've killed a number of 7, 8, and 9 points, that six point is one of my most treasured trophies.
Now in PA, crossbows have every minute of both the firearms seasons, and every minute of the archery season, a privilege I might add is not afford to those who hunt with a gun only or a bow only.
ADKARCHER, yup, everyone gets a participation trophy. Actually, it is more like, "I WANT AN ACHIEVEMENT TROPHY,, but I don't want to work ofr it, I just want to take yours from you and keep it for myself". The funny thing, most folks point to Ohio to show how little impact X-guns have in the archery season. I believe that maybe if our season here were like Ohio, then okay, put X-guns in there. If you really look at the numbers though, more deer are killed in Ohio by X-guns than bows.. Hmmm?? What's up with that if there is little impact?? Just sayin" Remember that Ohio has NO rifle season, a week of shotgun and a couple ML weeks, no guns in the woods during the rut, PERIOD. If NY did that, I would be all okay. Since there is a huge Regular Season, as well as over 2 weeks of ML, and only 1 1/2 week of archery. Some people say that trying to keep X-guns out of archery season is selfish. I beg to differ. Trying to make an implement that the action to use is just like that of a gun, and force it in to an archery season is selfish.......... BUT!!!! I am done with this, because even though I don't hunt with a gun, and would never hunt with a X-gun, this government and Governor are trying to take the right to keep and bear arms away from the citizens. I am focusing my attention in that area now, so this X-gun thing is a side show. Coumo put this in the budget to try to put the sportsman to sleep, and smooth any ruffled feathers of hunters by the ramming through of the SAFE Act. I ask that all hunters, whether you hunt with a bow, a gun or a X-gun, to support any politicians who are against the NY SAFE Act, and to donate to groups who are in opposition to it, SCOPE, OATHKEEPERS, The NRA, etc. I also ask you all to get with your friends and neighbors and talk about the Unconstitutional power grab that the NY and national governments are doing,, and get out and vote them all out in Nov. Peace, Jay
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on this crossbow debate. At 66 years old I am still a big strong man that has no trouble pulling any type of bow. I will continue to shoot my longbow no matter what happens in this debate. I just don't want to see anyone left out of hunting season because they can't pull a bow back.
I do not want to see anyone who wants to hunt left out of hunting season, but where do we draw the line. Why does bow season need to be the final stopping point. If one cannot swing a golf club, do we allow them use an 1 1/2 drain pipe and roll a ball into the cup. Part of what makes these activities interesting is the challenge.
If someone must kill deer in the archery season why must it be with a crossbow. Why not a handgun, or flintlock. There are hunting seasons that can accommodate various limitations or disabilities. Why must the claim be on all of the archery seasons just because a broadhead is used. A shotgun has been developed that shoots an arrow-like projectile that can be equipped with a broadhead. Why not legalize this for people who cannot bowhunt or do not want to work to shoot a bow?
Before someone thinks I am insensitive to persons with disabilities, allow me to disclose I have advanced heart disease, a heart attack at age 45, and have 9 implanted heart stents in six different procedures, suffer from feet and leg issues due to related to diabetes, and lived with back issues for 42 years since an injury playing college soccer. I worked until I was over 60 years old but now I qualified for disability through Social Security. I can still hunt some but my mobility is limited, and fortunately I can still draw a bow most of the time.
In PA before the crossbow crush, individuals could qualify for a disability permit if they were unable to pull a bow. Full inclusion was not necessary, but as one poster above noted, becomes a "participation trophy" not for genuinely disabled but wannabe bowhunters.
I became a downhill skier when I was 45, but had to give it up about 10 years later. I do not expect any ski resort to allow me to use a snowmobile on ski slopes because I can no longer downhill ski.
Thanks for your comments and for sharing your experiences Dale. NYB and the UBP have a long history together. I know what transpired in PA, the swindle, the lies, and empty promises of only 400 handicapped applicants, which BTW became 45,000. It's funny how the crossbow manufacturers forced themselves into archery seasons by claiming to be a horizontal bow. Just like a compound. When countering that claim tests, data, and harvest totals, they stood firm on their claim. But now, since they seem to be ever evolving into faster and stronger, they seem to have abandoned that stance since gaining entrance into archery seasons. Now, they are competing with each other for those new dollars. Also, they like to parade a wounded Veteran, a woman, a child, an elderly person, or a handicapped person as a posterchild to tug at the heartstrings of game commissions and legislators. But, where are these people in ANY print ad or ANY catalog. Only able bodied, male hunters in them. Another sham by them. In Ohio, the kill ratio for crossbows to all other bows is 3-2, so yeah, they do impact the kills. It's not a bow.
SteveBNY now is your opportunity!
I'm requesting that you, every year, post here on this site, the # of crossbow kills in NY.
I'm sure if you put your back into it, you can get the DEC to mine out the data for you.
That might put some of the angst to rest.
Can we count on you for that?
+1 JayG
And yes, I will be kind to the guys carrying xbows.
It should just be a month long any implement season.
But bowshot there is no way of telling how many deer will be wounded to crawl away & die from people who now have a cross gun in their hands and think it's a rifle.
Just as there is no way to count those with a compound that take poor shots.
@SteveBNY/Jax 1, Dirty Harry said it best, "A man just has to know his limitations". Like Jax 1 said though, a lot of folks don't take the time to learn about the implement they are using. Just 'cause you can hit a target at 80 yds with an X-gun, doesn't mean you are going to have enough KE to kill an animal, or enough speed to make sure the get the bolt to the animal before it moves a little. This goes for everything. The problem that I have seen first hand in Ohio, is that people who just cross over from guns to X-gun, so they can hunt during archery season, don't get the KE issue, so if it feels like a gun, is scoped like a gun, then it should kill like a gun. Sadly, that isn't the case. I was hunting in Ohio several years ago as saw firsthand a bunch who bought X-guns to hunt with, with no previous archery experience, and they wounded several bucks before they recovered thier first spike. The guy who shot it complained about and tried to tag as a doe, because the deer was so far away when the guy shot, that he couldn't see the 4" spikes on it's head. Bad shots happen with any implement. Hunting and shooting takes practice. Knowing your weapon is essential. But the people who just want a X-gun to hunt during the archery season and don't take the time to learn about the weapon are slobs IMO, as are the people who take a bow hunting course, and pick up a bow a week or so before archery season so they can hunt during it.
SteveBNY, cross bow kills would be fine. I'm not asking for incriminating data, just what the DEC might have in their data warehouse, for example:
"here are the deer harvest records for 2014 by implement"
shotgun: 10,000 bow: 11,000 rifle: 12,000 crossbow: 11,000
Maybe that data can't be mined, maybe it can. I would ASSUME it can't, but for all we know, maybe the 2014 DECALS system will require the tag holder to declare the implement more definitively than "gun" or "bow".
So Jay you are saying we should get rid of all bows?
Forget about trying to track crossbows separately, or any implement for that matter. First, the DEC will no way post any negative data referring to their new savior, the crossbow. Secondly, according to the DEC, less than 50% of all kills are reported. Thirdly, poaching incidents, even those that are reported are not factored into the mix either. The DEC did not want a separate tag for crossbows or a separate tracking method. The crossbow hunters have to buy an MZ tag. Most likely the DEC's way of getting MZ's into the last 14 days of SZ archery and last 10 of NZ archery in the future. All part of their three pronged plan to decimate the archery season. They got their precious youth firearms hunt over Columbus Day weekend, even though changing the Regular Season (Firearms) opener from the traditional Monday to the Saturday was SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE YOUTH!!!! so they did not have to miss a day of school, and to get them involved. Now they have the crossbow in some part of the archery season. Last for them is to get the MZ in there as well. And by using the MZ tag for crossbows is their backdoor in.
This is coming from a State that has said EVERY year for nearly a decade that its' deer herd is about one million animals. How about doing an in depth deer study, instead of an 8 year turkey study and a 5 year beaver study. What brings in more REVENUE to the State, deer tags, turkey tags, or trapping tags?
Why do they need a muzzleloader tag?
Al Dente Laptop where did you get the information that muzzle loader tag is what one needs. As an state instructor we have not been told any thing about what dates or what is required to have a cross bow.
Crossbow users will be required to purchase a MZ tag to hunt with a crossbow. They did not want to purchase their own tag, feeling that since it is deemed "archery" equipment, buying a bow license should be enough. But the DEC wants their share of the pie too. This is another way for the DEC to cloud crossbow license sales, and keep the future open for inserting the MZ into the archery season. There is no sure way to determine just how many crossbow hunters are out there when no crossbow license exists. For new hunters, crossbow safety will be taught during Regular Sportsman Ed, not the Bow Safety Class. Seasoned hunters will continue to read and sign that 3-4 paragraph on crossbow safety in the Syllabus or online. The DEC should be issuing a statement soon on all the new crossbow regs. This information was in the final revised version of the Assembly and Senate Budget Bills for the 2014 NYS Budget.
Bow27, Whaa????? What I said was the people need to know thier limitations, no matter the weapon they use. IMO, if you need regulations, the DEC should regulate when you can take a hunter or bowhunter course. Let's say, Hunter and Bowhunter Ed classes will be offered between Apr and Jun. If you can't make it to a class then, well wait 'till next year. If it wasn't important enough for you to get to a class, it obviously isn't important for you to hunt. Just sayin' I teach the Bowhunter course, and nothing pisses me off more than to have people call me in Sep, asking when I am going to teach a course, so they can hunt in the coming season, or asking me why I am not teaching a course in Sep. Not to sound selfish, but that is my time to be getting my stuff together for the season. If you didn't take the time to practice, get the certification, get your stuff set before the season, IMO, you shouldn't be out there anyhow, so I don't teach a course after Mid-Aug... I hear in Sep, "I didn't think about it until now". Well now you have a whole year to plan for another course. LOL Peace, Jay
"..But the DEC wants their share of the pie too.." (The mistake in that statement was the word "too").
'And there you have it folks!! That is what its all about. A body would have to be the most incredible SUCKERS to think its about anything else (the handicapped, the youth, more people in the outdoors, blah, blah, blah).
The xbow guys have to buy a muzz tag??? Oh man, that is just a hoot. Gotta buy a gun tag to use an xbow in the bow season.
That is just classic, dysfunctional NYS. Time to make a "reality" show.
Again, bummed out, but happy for the xbow guys. 'hope you enjoy it, you won, we lost.
That kind of shows they are a gun not a bow, do'nt it
As bow shot has stated they won. But have I missed something ? Was any archer asked how they felt about guns in the archery season . & Bob your right they are a gun a gun that shoot's an arrow.
Not to be anal, but a X-gun shoots a bolt. The DEC call it an arrow, but that is just to muddy the waters and give them something to be able to say, "see, it shoots and arrow, just like a bow, so it must be one". Just sayin' Jay
It gets tiring to hear that "no one should be excluded" because of physical limitation. Life's not fair! Get over it! I'm 52 and am excluded from many activities I would like to do because I'm old. I'd really like to play in the NBA. They should let me and pay me $1,000,000 a year. They could make me some bionic legs and lazer aiming device so I could shoot more accurately.
I shoot a longbow and actually love to HUNT! When I can no longer physically do it, at least I'll have wonderful memories of doing it right without taking shortcuts.
Amen... and personally, I dont't think any of us want to exclude disabled, aged, etc. It just frosts me when folks (like my son who lost his leg in the 82nd Airborne and STILL went to Afghanistan and earned his Combat Infantry Badge) are used to excuse this kind of.... shinanegins.
Why not just have one season where anyone can use any weapon they desire? Rifle will start in October just like the rest. Why not allow the bullet blasting broadheads? There needs to be a line drawn somewhere and I think "the line" is not even pulling a "bow" back at all.
Several of you are right on with your observations about language. Substituting arrow for bolt, and vertical bow for bow doesn't change the reality of two different types of arms. Bowties has the word "bow" in it but that doesn't make them weapons.
I happen to think those who oppose crossbows should call them what they are, crossbows, not crossguns. Just because they have a string, flexing limbs, and shoot broadheads doesn't make them a bow, any more than having a stock and trigger makes them a gun. Crossbows are a little of gun and a little of bow, They are a little of both but are not purely either.
I do not mean to minimize the tragedy of rape, but sweethearts, prostitutes, and rapists all make use of the same body parts, but the three acts are not the same, never was, never is, never will be.
(AND I AM NOT COMPARING CROSSBOWS, GUNS, OR BOWS TO ANY OF THE ABOVE Categories!!!!)
I am saying using the same or similar equipment in different ways or manners, may not change the outcome, but it vastly alters the spirit in which it is done.
Those who hunt with a crossbow are crossbow hunters, and they may kill deer and other game. They will be legal in some or all hunting seasons. Those who use crossbows may change words and language, but they are not bowhunters. Never were, never are, never will be.
At what point do compound hunters become not bowhunters
How many FPS? How mechanical ? release, broadheads, sights? What letoff? Overdraws to shorten arrows to what length? Silencers? Oh no that's a gun thingy!
No one wants to exclude the disabled, that was why Little John DiMura and NYB a long time ago fought to legalize adaptive equipment such as the Draw-Loc and Steady Freddy. But, by utilizing adaptive equipment, those who are disabled or physically challenged were not buying crossbows. So naturally, the crossbow manufacturers tried to spin it that they were carrying the torch for them. Yeah right.
Just because it shoots a fletched projectile, does not make it a bow. There is a rifle barrel called the AIRROW that can be swapped out on a Ruger .22 caliber rifle that allows its' user to shoot an arrow out of it. Is that archery? Where does it end? Also, some crossbows may not be legal under NYS's SAFE ACT. The PSE TAC 15 is built upon the lower receiver of an AR 15 rifle. The lower receiver classifies it as an Assault Weapon. BTW, just as PSE had originally marketed. TAC stood for Tactical Assault Crossbow. Hmmm...makes you wonder just who their demographic was?
The "demographic" Al is MONEY. They really don"t care about anything else but that. Neither does the States who wants the sales tax money on the new equiptment, and license fees. Nor the "outdoor publications" who want the advertising dollars for full page ads and free trips for their staff to "try out" the equiptment. Sadly perhaps the only ones who care about the ethics of our sport/passion are the guys who question the absurd justifications they are trying to force upon us. jmo....Tom
bow27... 'can't knock you on those points. I shoot both and hunt compound just becasue I get 15 more yards. But I'd be happy to see it all go back to stick, and then give it up to the rest of the bow brethren when my health fails. 'Becasue it would no long be MY season... no problem with that at all.
Great news! Now I can bow hunt with my father again, which is most important to me. Sharing the experience with family and friends. Sounds like some of you are worried that the guy with the crossbow is going to shoot "your" big buck. Times always change but never lose sight of the reasons that got us into it in the first place.
Boeana, yup, all changes are good, just like when Obama was elected. I'm thinking that you can bowhunt with your Dad whenever you want. The season is 7 weeks long, ML is 2. You and he could have used whatever you wanted to use during that time. By the way, what did get us into it in the first place. Mine was the opportunity to hunt in an uncrowded woods and hunt unpressured deer,, so much for that, huh? ;-)
Jay
Quick question?
How many days did they take away from the bow hunting season?
I hope we meet sometime JayG.
Jay, I am fortunate enough to have the ability to hunt all of the seasons ( I know most of us don't have that luxury for one reason or another). My point was that my dad is older ( 70's ) and can no longer pull back a bow and has trouble with the colder weather as well. So this would give him a chance to deer hunt in the warmer bow season once again. I know there are some that may feel the old timers had their chance in the woods and maybe they should hang it up if they can't deal with the factors, and I would not argue that with anyone since they have a right to their opinion, but so do I. All changes are not good, that is reason why things always change. I understand you are expecting this to bring more hunters into the woods and it probably will but we will have to wait and see just how much that will be. As far as "uncrowded" woods and "unpressured" deer, not sure if we could preserve that luxury without or without this law change aside from putting a fence around your hunting area.
Ct Crow, which time? When they added to the ML season, when they added the youth hunt? Which time? It seems that whenever the good idea fairy lands on someones shoulder and whispers an idea into some boneheads ear, they always come after the Bowhunter. Just sayin' So Bow Shot, if you hunt turkey with a bow, the season is coming, and if the flood waters recede, I have access to several thousand acres of farms to chase them around on.
I have to disagree Jay. I know you have a really hard time in your area with a$$ holes in the woods and trespassers. The addition of the Mz season and the youth season.......... Did it negatively impact your hunting at all? How do you think a cross gun / bow season will ruin bow season? I just don't see a valid argument.
I went out today to shot my bow when it warmed up a bit. Had to quit after just a few minutes. Just couldn't shoot while dodging all the chunks of falling sky. Real similar to when the compound and release made it easy for gun hunters to become 2 season hunters and flood the woods with those who needed "easier".
C Beck,, seriously? How did it ruin my archery season,, well, with the addition of the Youth Season seriously ruined my archery season, because the poaching, tresspassing, POS who trespasses in my woods, used the opening of Archery Season to go scout out my land with his kid, so they could find a place to hunt deer. Sadly, they scared a couple deer off that I was looking over to see which one I was going to shoot when they did. Sadly again, after following the law, reporting them and getting them cited, the "justice" let them go with a warning. That ruined my archery season opener. I am so glad that they are letting X-guns into the archery season, that way the poachers and trespassers with get thier early season cheating out of the way, so they will be in my woods stationary and not scaring all the deer while walking around during the opener. I am being sarcastic by the way. I should have just taken care of the situation and probably would have if he didn't have his kid with him. It'll be geat, having yahoos driving around the back roads, Labatts cans ratteling around in the back of pickups, along with a guy with a cocked and locked X-gun, just waiting to shoot something on the side of the road.... If you don't think that will happen, just look at CT,, and then wait a little. The X-gun will draw that $#!tbags like flies... Just my opinion. SteveB, maybe a chunk of falling sky will knock some sense,,, ahh, never mind.. ;-) Jay
Jay has it right, the woods will change all right thank god I have my own property which we control well with my 4 sons. I always agreed with the old and disabled being allowed to use a bolt gun even though I'm 82 and still am able to use my bow when I ca'nt I'll watch my boys hunt!
Here is another concern that I bet no one has though off. Since cross bows will be legal what now happens when some one wants to shoot a 3D shoot?
Jay- ok just askin. He he he I know you get all FIRED UP about it!! LMAO!! If I had as many problems as you do on your property, I would probably bury someone on it.
C. Beck, that thought crossed my mind on a couiple of occasions. With the guy who I caught with his kid after he wrecked my opening day. I told him that he was very lucky that he had his kid with him, he asked why, so I told him. I haven't seen him since. The guy who was doing donuts in my food plot with is wheeler. I went to his camp and we talked. I'm not sure if it was a coincedence or not, but he sold his camp a few months after I visited him. LOL archer756. Most clubs I have shot at, don't and won't allow X-gun to be shot at thier 3D targets. They do too much damage. I saw this down in NC at the club I was in near Ft Bragg. There were a couple guys who wanted to use X-guns, after the first shoot, they were banned for use on the foam targets. They tore them up.
Jay
You have as many problems in Ohio? Maybe it's just your area. I got to that point some years back........ I couldn't enjoy myself anymore. I found myself thinking about what I was going to do to the next guys found trespassing then realized I needed to move on and hunt elsewhere. I didn't hunt my own land for a few years. I found joining a club or hunting state land made it less stressful.
Kind of a dead issue now.. We have to live with it whether you agree with it or not. My question is how many of you think that your opinion influenced anything with the "crossbow" issue? My stomach is churning just thinking about what Albany or D.C. for that matter, has in store for us hunters, trappers, and fisherman in the near future. Health and Happiness to all, ARRwKNER
This: "we need more money…."
I shot a crossbow for the first time this weekend. I was amazed how easy it was for me to just pick it up and shoot so accurate with it. I guess it's my many years of being able to shoot well with a rifle that made it easy for me to handle. I used a pile of stacked logs as a rest. I shot as far as 50 yards and was shooting much more accurate then I could with my bow. I suffer from Target panic and I was able to overcome it by using a back tension release which I also continue to use while bow hunting. My friend says that the crossbow I was using was a few years old and the newer ones are even more accurate and faster. I can definitely see myself using a crossbow someday. I used to be against them years ago but have since changed my position the past few years. I don't think it will change anything about bowhunting. Maybe a few more people in the woods like Pat said but eventually people will see it doesn't make it amy easier, because you still have to get close to the deer and they smell you way before you even see them sometimes. Like Pat said private land is the way to go for less pressured hunting. I am sure all the long bow guys were against compound bows at first but then learned it was still bow hunting.
rebbie, thanks, its nice to read that SOME ONE has shoot a cross bow before making any COMMENTS ! Thanks
One of the points that I was trying to make above that I left out is that while I do suffer from target panic with a bow, there is absolutely no target panic with a crossbow. I almost gave up bow hunting all together back in 2006 because of my sever target panic until my brother taught me how to shoot a back tension release and I was able to keep my target panic at bay.
x2 Rebbie on crossbow thoughts....I do not use one but certainly may as time goes on....whatever will help me to be in the woods more I'm all for it!
