Final word on trail cams???
Montana
Curious... I know there have been discussions on the use of trail cams as well as lighted nocks. The way I understand it you cannot use a device that reveals the current location of game. A trail cam tells you where they were, not where they are. So are they still illegal to use during the season?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
"It is illegal for a person to possess or use in the field any electronic or camera device whose purpose is to scout the location of game animals or relay the information on a game animal's location or movement during any Commission-adopted hunting season."
2014 Montana Hunting Regulations
As I understand the lighted nock rules, you cannot use them during archery only seasons but you can use them in the general season.
That makes it pretty clear Straight, thanks!
So lighted nocks ARE legal during the general season but not during the archery season?
So lighted nocks ARE legal during the general season but not during the archery season?
That one is a little more fuzzy. 'Suggest you read the regulations carefully, then call your FWP region office to request clarification and a crystal clear understanding.
Both are stupid laws... my two cents worth.
Shooting times, lighted nocks, percent let-off, minimum poundage requirments are just a few of the laws that seem troublesome to enforce. You'd have to do bow/equipment inspections and require people to wear a watch. With the minimum poundage requirement on a traditional bow, it depends on how far back you pull it.
I have a lady insured that's on a hunting show and she will not join MBA over the lighted nock issue. She volunteers her time with several other wildlife/conservation organizations within the state. I don't really care about the lighted nocks either way and hunt with traditional equipment as well but when you have to read a novel of requlations to hunt, it seems like a lot, especially for someone new to bowhunting.
There is no common sense with a lot of these regs....none at all. It's like people need something to argue about, so they come up with stupid regulations.
as I see it the regulations will only get worse if we lift the regulations on electronics attached to bow or arrow, In my mind if some one is so shallow not to join an outfit that has in the past 30 years expanded bow hunting opportunities and has fought tooth and nail to maintain what we have now, well they can just be their greedy selves and live in their tiny world,
I am bowhunting Montana this year for elk and have read the regulations to avoid any inadvertent infractions on Montana laws. I had a list of questions to clarify and lighted nocks and cameras were on the list. I called FWP and they had me speak directly with a warden. He stated that as soon as seasons open no scouting cameras allowed and no lighted nocks on bows during any season at any time! Same goes for bow mounted video cams! He told me I could have a head mounted Gopro but no electronics of any kind whatsoever!
Well that warden is full of bull.
fill us in Dr. Bob, I have heard several different interpretations from different FWP guys not sure what the real scoop is..
What has been discussed previously on this topic. "as soon as seasons open no scouting cameras allowed" . . . this means if you are scouting elk in Mid to late August you cannot have a trail camera out, because archery antelope season is open.
I am mindful of what the MBA has done and many others to get the seasons we enjoy (and many take for granted). I would just remind folks that archery hunting is a primative sport that most of us do because it is a CHALLENGE. All these technological advances are chipping away at the challenge aspect and threatening how others view this sport. It is nothing short of a child testing a parent to see how much they can get away with before the parent says enough is enough.
Here is a rant for you . . .
Why don't we just let all these technological advancements play into archery hunting. The bows are shooting 100 -200 - 300 yards. The nocks turn green upon a "kill shot", yellow on "wound", and red if you missed. You can track animals with a satellite and it tells what time the animal comes by a certain spot, what it had for breakfast, how it likes it water (clear, merky, or black). You fly in a drone with a cross-bow attached, shoot the animal (w/ a lighted nock) from your couch, someone goes in and guts and hauls it out for you. Now, technology has advanced so much that now you just pick up a "Cabela's" magazine . . . oh I mean . . . you look it up on the internet and just look at a picture of the animal you want harvested and its automatically deducted from your bank account. Sound crazy . . . but, who knows. Someone will push for it. Oh, why were at it . . . why don't we just push to have Rifle season begin September 1st through December 1st and tell everyone you can use archery equipment during the "new" rifle season.
We archery hunt because it provides us an opportunity to be out in the field hunting and because it is a challenge. I am no "purist" by any means, but we have to keep the primative aspect in archery hunting or it evolved into something totally different.
In My Humble Opinion, we don't NEED lighted nocks or trail cameras or all these gadgets/gizzmos during the archery season. There are some that WANT these things during the hunting season but are not necessary.
OK . . . . Happy 4th everyone.
Many ranches use online security cameras and UAV's( drones) to monitor trespassing, but they are not allowed to track game movements.
Many ranches use drones to monitor trespassing?!
Does Matt Rosendale know this?
If bow mounted cams are illegal then that bull on the last cover of EBJ was taken illegally. Just saying. I could care less. not like a camera on your bow helps you hunt better. HUNT
hunt was it a Montana Bull??
Sorry if I upset you dr and JMG. I called because I wanted to have a bow mounted camera to show my kids and a couple of friends my experience hunting Montana. Don't shoot lighted nocks or have a camera yet. I have used scouting cameras and they're a great tool to help those of us that work too much to get into the field and glass all day.
I called and talked to a warden so I wouldn't break the law. If that warden is wrong, I'm still going to follow what he says to be safe. We're all in this together, everybody likes things done a certain way, but we are all hunters and should support each other. Divided we fall! Good luck this season!!!
No one's upset. Just stating the difference between wants and needs. IMO, it starting to get out of hand and how other people view archery hunts may cause the "powers that be" to impose unnessary controls over all of us, because of few.
I have a GoPro that I strap to my head to record, if a chance encounter happens.
Your smart calling the game warden, they ultimately write the ticket. I think what Dr. Bob was implying is that you may get a different answer depending on the game warden you ask.
JMG, gotcha! I would hope that the wardens would know the basic laws like, when cameras are legal! Maybe not the case due to the responses here? My misunderstanding! Good luck!
Yes it was a MT bull number 2 all time it says. HUNT
wow, everyone knows in Mt. there isn't any electronics allowed on bow or arrow,
You can use lighted nocks during the gun season, it is an archery thing brought to you by the MBA.
Long archery seasons for hunting antelope early, exclusive bow hunting of elk during the rut, and deer and elk bow hunting opportunities for months are also archery "things" brought to you by the MBA.
dr.bob, I hope that's not a cynical complaint against the MBA, because if it is ... then it is misplaced.
Well said, Straight Arrow.
it wasn't brought by the MBA by the way, its a FWP thing, ON our last MBA survey on the issue, the members still opposed using electronics attached to bow or arrow, when the members change their mind the MBA will most likely change its mind also..
I don't have it in front of me, but wasn't the bull on the cover Eastmans bow hunting Brendan Burn's bull that was shot with a governor's tag (gifted to him) in Wyoming? Not sure how that figures in this discussion....
Leatherstcking, brendans wAs on ehj not ebj i believe.
It was brought to you by the MBA, along with archery permits.
I stand corrected, sort of, the FWP did approach the MBA and asked what we thought of their stance of NO electronics, the FWP did not want to have to deal with the electronic issue's one by one they wanted a line in the sand, We agreed with the P&Y stance at the time, and that was no electronic attached to either bow or Arrow, There are a great many out there who do have some concerns on the electronic issue, it appears those concerns aren't with the actual lighted nock or the camera attached to the bow but if the no electronics ban is lifted what is coming next, we have to be concerned with bow seasons for the future, anyone who has even the slightest bit of imagination can see things could dramatically change. look what we've done with sights so far, instead of a series brass pins attached to bow, to adding paint to those brass pins we added luminescent painted pins and then to fiber optic glowing pins and that was done all with out any electricity. add the voltage and who knows what's next. maybe good maybe bad we are going to have to decide our future,,, other questions we have to ask ourselves will the lifting of the electric ban have an effect on our hunting seasons and will that affect be positive or negative,, will it increase success rates, what species will the lift be affected most, no easy answers for sure but we have to give all this some very serious thought..
hell if it is the future you are worried about lets go back to recurves and long bows, ban anything that isn't primitive.
The MBA always has the future of Bowhunting in mind.
I've heard the debate on electronics/technology endangering the length of archery season for as long as I can remember. I don't buy it. In Montana we do not get to kill an animal during archery season and then another in rifle season like many other states and provinces... We get the one tag and if you fill it during archery season, you're done. Using the argument that a lighted nock, a trail cam, etc. is going to shorten our archery season just doesn't hold water... The majority of bowhunters also hunt during rifle season, so shortening the archery season would basically have zero impact on the big game populations. Plus, do we really believe the outfitters would tolerate a shorter archery season? Money talks, and shorter seasons means money taken out of their pocket...
It's too late to draw a line in the sand.... My son grew up shooting instinctively... He had a little recurve and then a compound that I set up so he could shoot off the shelf instinctively... A couple of weeks ago he decided to buy a new bow with all the bells and whistles. He bought it online and it came all set up based on his draw length, etc. He took the bow out of the box, grabbed 3 arrows and went back to my target to shoot... He'd never used a release aid or sights before in his life.. He shot about a 4 inch group at 20 yards the first time he fired the bow.. Within 10 minutes he was shooting tight groups out to 50 yards.. I watched a guy on tv yesterday shoot a mule deer buck at 91 yards in Colorado...he said he practices out to 100 yards or more and feels confident taking those shots...Ya right..
At any rate, drawing a line in the sand now regarding trail cams, lighted nocks, etc. is nonsense as far as I'm concerned... It's the bows that are the problem, not lighted nocks and trail cams.. Take off the sights, make release aids illegal, reduce the let-off to about 25%... If season length is in danger of being shortened, then in theory getting rid of all the bells and whistles on today's bows should lengthen our season by a couple of weeks.
They sure do, in the future how much can we restrict bowhunting. With permits they have hurt me more than all the good they have done.
The trail cam thing is a joke. They can be used in every other state out there but Montana. I will be hunting elk in Az this fall and I will have them out there. The F&G use them but we can't here is a photo I took of a bull in Utah and guess what I never seen him except on my trail cam photos. So anyone out there that thinks trail cams make it to easy your dead wrong.
It's not that it makes it too easy big dan...it's just that it opens the door to the next "advancement" Once you allow them, then the next thing comes up and they will say ....."Why not? What's the difference? You allow game cams"
Lighted nocks and trail cams would be a blast. They would help you recover more animals and know your area better. I get it. However you have to draw a line somewhere.
I agree with you, cams would be fine and so would lighted nocks in my opinion but I understand why they aren't allowed. It's a good thing in the long run. Kind of a small sacrifice for the greater good if you will....
Take a step back and look at the big picture in MT. For practically nothing you can hunt for almost 12 weeks for big game on a general tag. Try that in some of these other states. We have it pretty good.
So wait, I could use a trail camera as long as there is no season going on?
There are tons of trailcams in Montana. Many private ranches employ them for poaching. Last time I was in Billings I saw several locals buying several cameras at Cabelas. I am pretty sure they are not mounting them in thier bed room.... ;)
FWP has more important issues to deal with...
The MT FWP uses trail cams all season to keep track of hunters and who travels on mountain roads so it seems very hypochritical to make the illegal for hunters.
Also, how does outlawing lighted knocks protect the future of bowhunting? Seems to me that knowing where you hit an animal to help improve recovery rates would protect the future better!
Just my rant - but I don't get it!!
Common sense: A thing of the past. One simple question... what advantage does a bow cam or lighted nock give a hunter, is all that needs to be asked. The answer is none.
In fact lighted nocks make for better decisions when recovering game.
Hell... if a guy wants to break the law in bow season he uses a rifle not a lighted nock or a camera to record the evidence!
Seminole: She just wouldn't let me put one in the bedroom..........!!!!!!!
Sorry my scouting is still done the old school way. My cams are for trespassers.
Mule that is what exactly happened last year on two bulls next to me. FWP took the bulls and fined the kids BUT didn't take their licenses for the next two years. Bunch of shit. Didn't teach them a thing!!
Mark: That really is a scary thought.... :/ You might be the next reality star on "Naked and Afraid"... You naked, the rest of us afraid!
We just turned in some poachers down here hauling a hog to the truck all thanks to the trail cam. I gave a key to our FWC officer, so he can check it on his own.
