Contributors to this thread:
Pasquinell's Link
I hope some of you enjoy this read and I don't get in trouble for posting it!
Pasq, food for thought. I've questioned my own behavior and motives in recent years. Been teetering on returning to shooting instinctive and possibly a long bow for the purity of it. Admittedly, it is hard to walk away from the success I've enjoyed from the benefit of technology. Thanks for sharing.
It is a good read whether you agree or not. You have to admit it is very close to true.
Pasq- Very nice - Thanks for posting!!
Brought back lots of memories, nice read.
Awesome story. I say get rid of all the wheels on bows and bring us all back to the good old days of trad gear. There will be far more space in the woods because many won't want to spend the time to become proficient and many won't have the time. Those people can still use the gun season.
This was written 40 yrs too late, the technology could have been nib-in the-bud by either banning the compound or releases in bowhunting. Now the barn door is closed and no-coming back, instead of the few and the proud (simper fi) we got the quick and deadly crowd. Throw them in the woods and the majority wouldn't know north from south or couldn't read game signs from live stock signs. Woodmanship and the art of spot & stalk is a lost art without a tree stand or a tent and not filing a tag was not a failure, otherwise Wensel hit the head on the nail. Enjoy your hunt.
The problem with going to traditional is that most guys can't hit the broad side of a barn with one. I remember one IBO World Tournament I went to. My shooting was done for the day so I went over to watch the recurve nad long bow guys shoot their course. If I'm not mistaken the longest shot allowed for them was 25yds and I'd say the average shot that I saw was about 21yds. Their shooting was pathetic! Four guys in a group and they were lucky if there was one heart on each animal. 5's were much more common than 10's. Now over on my range if you shot a 5 you might as well packed up and left because you stood no chance of winning after giving up 5 points. Remember these were the best in the country, yes I know a lot of really good shooters don't go to the world tournament or shoot tournaments at all. But these shooters were far above average for the most part and their shooting was terrible.
"Woodmanship and the art of spot & stalk is a lost art without a tree stand or a tent "
Don't forget those who even bowhunt out of enclosed blinds/condos. Talk about no longer being in touch with nature.
When I hunt or shoot Zinger there are no scores with racks or targets. You atomaticaly started your thread with a negative. The "most guys" comment was funny too. It kinda showed your lack of knowledge in trad gear and you know... maybe you should keep using a crossbow then, they are easier :) No disrespect intended to you either.
Lame Crown dip where are you?? I know you would like this article
Pasquinell, you sound like countless guys I've seen and heard on the archery, trap and rifle ranges. "I can't shoot targets worth a darn but when there's an animal there I never miss" BS! If you can't hit the target when you're cool, calm and collected don't tell me that with the adrenilion and excitment of the hunt you will shoot better than you do on the range.
Yes I understand there aren't any scoring rings on reel deer but if you shoot a 5 on a 3D target it's a bad shot, oftentimes 8's are just fine but a 5 might kill a deer but it's not somewhere any of us want to hit an animal.
No go to any 3D shoot wether it be a small local club shoot or a national shoot and see what the traditional scores are? If 300 is possible the best compound guys are shooting 294-300, average is probably around 225. Now look a the stick bow shooters? They shoot a lot shorter distances and the top score MIGHT be 200 with the average well below that, to shoot that low you need to shoot a lot of 5's and as I've said 5's are really bad hits. And yes I know targets like turkeys the 8 ring is very small, smaller than it needs to be so there are plenty of 5's that will kill a turkey but on the deer it's pretty accurate.
I bet if you allowed crossbows to shoot those same tournaments shooting offhand on average they wouldn't shoot as good as the compound guy do.
Zinger you must not relate to the story and thats ok.
What I meant was I pay the money, leave the pencil in the box and thank the person for the score card. I then throw the score card in the trash.
Hunting is fun Zinger so I don't get caught up in scores or numbers with antlers or the rings you speak of.
Traditional archery does take practice and isn't easy. Its not for everyone. You seem truly angry in your posts.
If I was in charge of any tournaments I wouldn't allow crossbow in at all. They belong on the rifle ranges. :) Have a good 4th of July
Pasq...I do like most of what Papa Gene writes and I have most, if not all of his books. He is spot on with most of his observations. I just do not post much here any more because some do not think it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable. My view on the whole crossthing is like this: The 2013 and prior standards were a good thing. But using one (I did in 2002 when my shoulder was crippled) is like playing golf using an Iron Byron. It DOES hit a BALL with a CLUB on a golf course but is it really golf?
Pasq. nice read,I lived those days before treestands and warm clothes. Hunting was hunting back then. It will never be like that again in Wi. I go elk hunting and its still pretty well the same as back then
LOL! Come on back LC it is a bit quieter but still Flares up once in awhile around voting time, youth hunts, EAB questions, rage is best broadheads, I am a baiter and you are a food plotter etc etc etc etc.
Pasq - That "bait plotter" - And yes, Rage is the best! :^)
Oh yes, back in the "day" - I was a kid back then but I still remember the "party pemit" 4 hunters to apply for 1 doe tag and the doe hunter wore an arm band as the desigated anterless hunter! Plaid red coats and a 20 gauge with a slug and bead sight!
Those were the days!
Zinger you are dead wrong about Pasquinell's post. I know several guys that can't hit the broadside of a barn on the target range and somehow find a way to connect on a quality buck. This maybe a shock but, the world is not black and white.
10or better - You are correct. One of my best buds shoots a compound and cant keep the pin on a glen dell target. But get him on deer... its all over. I have had to gut too many of his! So Zinger it does happen.
Pasq and 10 or better are correct...... I am not very good on the trap range, I have been told by some the best shooters, it is a lack of concentration, committment, and heart......
However, they know me, and when it comes to grouse and woodcock, I am usually dead on, and pheasants well forget about it...... So you see I can shoot birds well, because I am really into it, with the dogs.......
My go to bow, with Wis and MI deer is my 54# Checkmate recurve. I love that bow. I shoot it alot, and when hunting, I am still always shooting at stumps and such........ 3D shoots to me are boring, and I am a lousy target shot on the range, but with this bow, since I got it, I am 8 for 8.......
Target shooting and killing are two different disciplines......... It is true, you should be an excellent target archer, or trap shooter, if your good at killing deer with bow or birds with gun.....
Although I can shoot distance, I have not killed a deer in the past 5 years, beyond, 17 steps, and my late season kill was 4 steps, out of deadfall......
I wish I could shoot target better, but do not have the intrest. I have two 3D targets at the cabin, and shoot at them all the time, always moving them around and from different angles.........
Not many 3D shoots in the UP, and I would rather trout fish
""" and cant keep the pin on a glen dell target. But get him on deer... its all over""" One has to wonder how many deer are wounded first,,, "before its all over" that you don't know were hit before he called you to gut.
I see comments on how pathetic todays stick bow shooters seem to be. I started in 1956 when that was all we had. I've seen hundreds of perfect indoor 300s shot with fingers + I've managed many myself back in my tourney days. I've seen those same people shoot outdoor Field course (separates the men from the boys in competition)with scores consistently over 500 & many perfect rounds. Whatever is being done with compounds & assorted "aids" has already been done by many with recurves & fingers. It is because "that is" what we shot everyday. I doubt there are many "real dedicated" finger, stick bow shooters of today but I'm sure those that are will "amaze" many modern day shooters. I shot our state field last year & I shot with a recurve shooter the 1st half & he ended up with a near 500 score. Trust me, field & hunter is much more demanding than a 3-D. 112 total arrows up to & including 80 yds...
Great article. Glad I hunted back in the day and still shoot an osage selfbow. Been at it 45 years.
Gene is correct.
I have always been interested in what Gene wrote and agreed with almost all of it. He is kind of the conscience of the bowhunter. I find generally that hunters that started bowhunting with traditional equipment especially in the 60's, 70's revere bowhunting rather than thinking it is just another form of hunting. With that said there are plenty hunters that started after the 70's that revere bowhunting. Gene should be testify at ever state that thinks they do not have enough crossbow opportunities.
Arrow- he wounds 15 - 20 of them every season but we try not to dwell on those. We all just sit tight in anticipation with our folding case knives waiting to gut knowing he will get lucky and eventually he will get one down. We installed a block and tackle in his stand to hoist his quiver up because there are so many arrows and need a metal detector to find the ones he shot thru the Forrest..
Ease your wondering Arrow I am one of those snooty traditional hunters that would not hunt with anyone that did that.
BS! If you can't shoot decent on a range when nit under presure you're not going to shoot good under preasure. You might get lucky but luck isn't being good. You guys sound like the guy at the bar that says he drives better after a few beers.
Preacher... er uh I mean Zinger in my friend Jeff's case your wrong - sorry.
Gene is right on, especially about crossguns
Pasquinell, If you really believe that a guy shoots great at animals but can't hit a target you're sadly mistaken. Your friend might be lucky but he's not good.
Ok Ok Ok you win... he sucks and I am sadly mistaken.
Felt like I was being water boarded with you Zinger.
How did you like the story?
I am going to look over some past posts for a hint of positive feedback on things other than the crossbow from you. Dont want to end with the thought I currently have. Wow...
Pasquinell, yes please tell me another story about your other friends like the one that get's short winded walking to the refridgerator but when the Boston Marathon starts he finishes in the top 10!
You might have felt water boarded because you continued to say the same unbelievable things over and over.
I'm with him on everything except criticizm of breast implants! lol!
Well Zinger why don't you tell that to my 12 year old daughter. She shoots good but not awesome here at home. But has been posting great scores on the 3d range and beating most of the boys. She says herself that she focuses better when there is something to lose. I know in zinger land you may always be right, but you are very wrong on this account. It's no different than the certain players being terrible practice players. But on game day they are ballers.
RutNut ur a liar!!! Your daughter never said that, she has never shot at your home or a 3D shoot. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
He must not of liked the crossbow mention within Genes story. I looked up Zinger in the Webster and it just said - All time Hero.
Rut, your daughter shoots good on the 3D range when she concentrates, it sounds like she doesn't consentrate much on round targets. That's different than someone who can't hit targets or 3D's.
It seems the two main complaints about crossbows is that they don't have to be drawn back with the deer in range and that they can shoot farther. Then do you also oppose people shooting Mathews bows in blinds? Mathews says their bows are good for 70yd shots and in a blind there really isn't a danger of being spotted drawing the bow.
Ladies and gentlemen you are about to enter the spin zone... what your about to read will mistify all and confuse most.
Please dont try to figure out its meaning for only the amazing should attempt.
"your daughter shoots good on the 3D range when she concentrates, it sounds like she doesn't consentrate much on round targets. That's different than someone who can't hit targets or 3D's..."
WWWWWWHHHHHHAAAATTTTT????
So you're saying your friend never concentrates when they're practicing? If so how do they even know where to hold the bow when they have a deer in front of them? Rut's daughter knows where she's going to hit because she concentrates on the 3D target. On spot targets she probably doesn't care enough to concentrate but her pins are still on because she knows they are from hitting the 3D targets.
You pretty much said your friend never shoots good until the animal is in front of him. How does he suddenly hit where he's pointing when he doesn't know where to point?