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So I was curious, is there a biological reason, why we need to scale it down to one buck?????

Also, although a solo hunter, I know of one group of young guys, all good woodsman, and there are 8 of them, and they hit the woods at daybreak and go to dark, everyday they can..... They really are not doing a drive so to speak, they are really still hunting at a faster pace, with some hunters a mile or two ahead of them.

This is done on public land, both in Wis and the UP. They kill some really nice bucks, should that type of hunting not be allowed.......

Is Political Correctness, going to force us all, to sit in an enclosed blind, sitting on a food plot........

There is a danger, when it starts small and starts to gain momentum, on a group, that wants everyone to hunt like them.......

Ethics always come into a picture, I too saw alot of deer drives, that I thought were dangerous, but it was on their own family farms, doing so, for many generations.......

My question is, should we dictate, how one has to hunt?

Every state is doing this now thru the regs. Some states have banned deer drives for years,Il. and Maine. Some have banned baiting, Ca.(ask Ted N.), Il., ect.

Some have a 1 buck rule Indiana, Ohio.

Politics and tag revenue not PC or biology drives the reg bus and how we hunt.

If someone wants to put on deer drives in my opinion they should only be able on the second weekend. Problem is you get grease balls saying they were walking and not driving etc etc etc. ITs a hooray for me the heck with you world.

One buck a year is a great idea? Let me guess you don't gun hunt? There is no biological reason for a 1 buck per year limit. Mismanagment is a different issue. The reason most people want a 1 buck per year limit is because they're afraid someone else is going to shoot "their" buck that they want to grow bigger and shoot next year.

Hunt how you want and don't worry about the other guy. If you don't like how people are hunting on public land go buy or lease some land for yourself. If you don't have the money to do that to bad. Some people forego every other pleasure to own land so they don't have to deal with public land, it's about priorities. PErsonally I enjoy to much other stuff to only worry about owning land but if you want to be king of the land that's what you might have to do.

Don't see a problem with a 1 buck tag system..bring it.

Antler Whore, I like your idea, bu I think it needs to be tweaked, for a bonus buck tag you should have to harvest an antlerless deer first and have your buck tag filled before being able ot purchase an bonus buck tag.

Everyone with a pea for a brain knows that the ability to keep a buck on their 40 or 120 acres in impossible, so to say that we are "afraid" of someone harvesting a buck that they let walk doesn't hold water!

Make it an even Bakers Dozen where the population is "way" over goal! And NO carry overs of buck tags to the following year.

Bring back EAB!!!

I wish somewhere along the way someone would have thought about tracking who shoots the bucks. How many group hunters fill how many tags. At least bowhunters aren't legally allowed to share tags!

I remember one time in all my years of hunting where my Dad shot 2 bucks during gun season and I used my tag.

With the seasons today there is no reason for that.

Not sure how anyone could build a case against it..

My land can easily handle a few more bucks taken off it and it allows me to seriously bow hunt early season without the problem of being tagged out by November. We are noticing if we shoot a mature buck early, another moves in by November. Someone with less quality habitat is the one who will lose. The DNR will win because I don't plan on shooting a doe unless the population gets way high again or the DNR forces me to

Getting long in the tooth, caring less and less about big bucks and more about the fun of the process. Bonus bucks could make my farm a ball.

Where the DNR is screwing up on bonus bucks is they should make you shoot 2-3 does for the extra buck tag. One doe is a drop in the bucket.

A 1 buck rule would make hunters take pause on that sporty 110 inch 2yo. It also would help spread the opportunity out to more hunters. Btw, a 1 buck rule would have nothing to do with doe control tags.

We don't do drives and aren't stacking them up left and right.

They're good guys despite their lack of bowhunting. I enjoy that time. It's good camaraderie. An aspect of hunting that I think is important.

So, I confess fully that for my own selfish reasons, I would be disappointed to see party hunting during gun deer end. But I understand that people who hunt areas impacted by big drives and an "If it's Brown, it's down!" kind of attitude would like party hunting to end.

So go ahead and flame me.

If they went that way.. you wouldn't need separate weapon specific tags... just a deer license ... and you slit your weapon when tagging and reporting it.. much simpler system and better for all who hunt putting more bucks around so more folks enjoy the sport! .. how can that be construed as bad..I don't get it.

To get the population under control, the state should issue x buck tags and x doe tags depending on the size of your property. The more land you own, the more landowner tags you get. Send them right with your tax bill and make them free until the population is in check.

One buck tag and 3 doe tags per 50 acres feels about right. Landowner can give these out as long as the deer are shot on his/her property.

Lands with less than 50 acre probably have enough pressure they don't need the extra tags. Maybe I am wrong on this? The smaller landowners may be more aggressive in pulling the trigger so feed the beast more tags?

" How does a game warden prove who shot what on private land. Where we hunt is hard to reach and we do not take deer out till after dark on an atv so proving who shot what is hard. "

Wardens are quite capable of cutting thru the BS regardless of private land and when a deer is taken out.Wardens don't have to treat private land any different then public. Have you seen the new regs regarding the shooter being with the deer in the field until registered? Ban party hunting and 95% of BS hunters scamming the system ends.

You're right regarding myself. I am doing a little trial of taking it easy on the does while increasing my food plot acreage as not to harm the forest. It's working.

I can see though in the next few years I will have to start shooting does. Using a rifle during bow season, free tags, phone in registration are all very attractive ideas for me. I am not the average though and am highly engaged in what I am doing. The average joe gets a bunch of free tags in the mail and a long season - bang bang

There really is no other answer. Bonus buck will not work. Needs to be 2-3 does per buck, not 1

What's your answer to the problem November? How do you get people to shoot more does?

The DNR has a problem in Waupaca

Longer seasons, free tags, easier weapons, simple registration (deer donation). The only answer I can think of

Long term it's education regarding habitat damage and the old gaurd of "never shoot a doe" literally dropping dead. Short term, raising antlerless tags to $12 or $20 will lower the doe harvest.Guys will not shoot a $12 fawn.The DNR will see another 2 Million in revenue from the tag increase to feed the beast. I set the doe harvest quota after trail cam surveys by Labor day. We averaged 36 for 10 years and dropped the quota last year to 26. I have never had a problem motivating our guys to take doe. We take them till 10/20 then lay off till the December doe only hunt. We manage to do just fine with mature bucks in the gap 7 weeks and I insist on guys showing up for the Dec. doe only hunt. 90% of landowners are clueless about herd control/habitat damage, 6% think they are qdm and are really tdm.Maybe 4% of landowners actually practice herd control imo.

The question is do you really think education is the answer? I am highly educated in this area. I own valuable timber and monitor browse lines ( only have one 40 with a browse line by the way) and don't shoot my fair share of does because I can't figure out how to do so and keep my property low stress. That's why I plant 15 acres just for the deer. I am feeding them legally. There is nothing you can teach me that will change my mind.

Now, give me permission to use a rifle in Sept-Jan, free doe tags mailed to my house, phone in registration - I most likely will take 10-15 a year

Bottom line is there will always be excuses for not owning herd control.No worries, the roads auger the excess while mother nature winterkills whats needed. No winterkill in Waupaca right? lol

Why don't you harvest does between 10/20 and December. With the number of antlerless deer on the landscape any opportunity not taken to harvest a deer is a lost opportunity.

We take 12 does off of 120 acres on a yearly basis and 2 bucks since 2002 and our buck to doe ratio is still way off.

How many acres are you taking that many does off of and how many hunters do you have?

Just curious, because try as we might I don't feel we are harvesting enough deer.

Bullwinkle-

Yes we have too many deer in Waupaca county!

Thanks

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.

We need some new bold fresh ideas and yes if I could use a rifle Sept-Jan to take does I would. I have some great non-intrusive stands that would make this possible without spooking a bunch of deer

That's when we mature buck hunt. We hit our quota no problem every year. Take them early and stack them on the Dec. doe only weekend. We account for about 6% of the Dec.doe only gun hunt in 62b with about a 4 hour hunt which shows complete apathy from others. The Dec. hunt allows us to fine tune the quota after counting heads post crop harvest.7 hunters and enough land.

The DNR has made the regs quite easy to facilitate herd control. Hunters don't give a rip. You can't push a rope.

" I have some great non-intrusive stands that would make this possible without spooking a bunch of deer."

Putting in non intrusive bow stands, retrieving at night and gutting elsewhere is not possible? I'd last about 3 weeks in Wallenfang's position before I would want to suck on an exhaust pipe and hurt small puppies, I swear. Too funny.

Thanks for the info. I understand now. I am in 63A and we have the same issue.

Too many people are only antler hunters and don't give a rip about too many deer on the landscape.

The new regs will only make it worse and pit the private land hunters against the public land hunters. The same old complaint that private land hunters have it better than public land hunters.

1 buck tag is thee only solution ...gun hunters wanted to hunt the bow season and pushed the xgunners thru... now changes must be made to the bag limits accordingly 1 buck is that change

The biological reason this could happen on no doubt public land first is if many of the 400,000 gun only hunters fire up that xgun and become a 2 season hunter. Then You will see a draw/preference point buck tag system(or 1 buck rule) like many other states have. OTC buck tags are not a right.Residents in many states have to draw even 1 buck tag. politically, the real threat is if the combined xgun/archery takes a dramatic jump and the gun only guys wake up and realize "their" deer has been in a freezer weeks before he stumbled into the woods for his annual 2 day deer hunt.Those 400,000 gun only license sales are the DNR cash cow. Shortened seasons for both weapons won't solve this but a 1 buck rule would.Never say never.

Buy land, make big sanctuaries and protect deer by giving them everything they need. This pressure will then help you achieve your goals. The deer will figure it out quickly where they want to be and the best will get the best habitat

I am ok with both. Planning to not go out West in Sept 15, instead chase an early season whitetail. Have not done that in years because I dirt want to fill a tag. Bonus bucks enable this extra fun

"Really??? most hunters are hunting and it is not all about horn size or the number of total inches a buck has."

But it certainly is about horn(antler). The apathy towards herd control proves that. I highly doubt BW wants the BB program in order to stack 3 forkies whose antlers fit in a shoe box.BW has stated many times his goal is to break 150. If so, what's his motivation to dump anything less first then keep hunting for that 150? Btw, BW also has hosted many youth buck hunts. Would the same bonus buck crowd want archery/xgun party hunting also? Great idea.

You're right November, my goal is a 150", my biggest is 132". I also love sitting in a tree. I will shoot a 140" if I get a chance - what the heck, it would be my best. I have enough land and Sturgis verified this, I should be able to take 3-4 140"/year off the farm. Bonus buck extends the use of my properties is why I selfishly like it. Plus, I am working 2 land deals with neighbors trying to grow. I want to hunt, hunt , hunt in retirement. The extra tags allow this.

Pretty simple solution here and one that has been around forever. Don't pull the trigger on a buck unless you want to be done. As hunters, we all have decisions to make with consequences. You could always continue your doe hunting and hunt, hunt, hunt. We all want to hunt and fish, but understand there is a limit on what we can all take and render decisions on that.

May as well work the change

BB does not effect dpsm at a 1:1 ratio as set up in the cwd zone.BB in the south is only for passive cwd management. 3:1 yes. Wallenfang was overwhelmed with the backlash on BB elsewhere hence the NRB backed off. BW, You won't take doe admitting your area is way over desired level as a tdm guy yet can't wait to stack bucks? You would take a 140 early and continue to hunt the rut and gun. How many other hunters are in camp? Would they be given the same latitude?

And likewise, actual numbers of hunters who take multiple does? In categories?

What's the true impact of multiple deer hunters?

To answer your question November. One person bow hunts with me. I have about 180 acres to myself. He his allowed to hunt on the rest with me. When I am up I have the farm to myself. I do have a guest now and then. I need to think through it but most likely only I or my boys (if they seriously bow hunt in the future) will be allowed to shoot 3 bucks.

Low pressure is key to my strategy. I have learned to welcome neighboring pressure. It plays to my strategy.

By the way, I am not good enough to be a TDM - someday, trying. The TDM are much more serious than I am.

The guy who hunts with me is my caretaker (actually became good friends). Best thing I ever did was exchange work for hunting. Since he lives there, dealing with trespassing, planting needs, etc all can be taken care of easily. Plus I get local insight of a farmer watching where the deer are. He is honestly as interested in making my farm great as I am. He acts like he owns the place. Pretty awesome. He also shoots the big bucks. Has 8 over 150" on the wall.

I have been working on 50-130 acres of neighboring parcels. If I could ever get any or all of those my farm has another level. I am real close on securing two of them. Hopefully this year. Need some new projects

I could easily take more bucks off my farm. Thus the BB is attractive to me

I like it just in case and will take a doe I probably wouldn't have for the insurance of always having a buck tag

BB baby

As the previous state liaison for WBH, I guess you still have some clout left with them. I would doubt they even know who NF is.

"I thought that I'd read somewhere that the % of hunters who kill multiple deer in a year is really low. "

Some of that might have to do with the fact the herd is quite down in most areas and people are being smart after buying into the DNR's unlimited doe tag slaughter for many years. Also, today, a person can kill only one buck per weapon unless in the CWD zone and the herd is way down there.

Your idea is coming. BB is one step in that direction. Xbow was another

I see the opposite usage of DMAP than you see Bull. It seems you see it as a means for the DNR to reduce the herd and I see it as a means for the DNR to work with landowners to improve the habitat and increase the herd. There might be times then when the County groups approve more anterless tags for their county.

I also agree with happy. DMAP up north will be about more deer. In over populated areas like Waupaca county, it will not be.

I don't know any real whack 'em and stack 'em guys personally. I've had seasons where I've taken a buck and a few does, but I hunt up North and doubt that I'll be killing any does up there for a couple of years at least.

Why don't folks push for a much simpler easier to use 1 buck system... it's win win for anyone who buys a tag... not sure what fuels any opposition other than pure hunter greed.... I would gladly give up a buck tag to share that buck with other hunters... not sure what kind of sportsman wouldn't feel the same... maybe we are stumbling on some of the true problems with WI hunting ..

Check out the Waupaca deer population chart I posted above. The DNR will find a way to shoot more deer in Waupaca county. This is right from a DNR web site.

If they came up with a program like crop damage that was tailored to private land owners it might be another solution than mess with DMAP. A bow and arrow or December doe hunt is not efficient enough to control the doe population around us.

Last year I bow hunted 7 days and gun hunted 2. I really should take 10-15 does/ year to get my population where the DNR wants it. There wouldn't be any time for buck hunting if I shot does to target

If I could use rifles, I have a close friend who I trust dearly that has 7 kids. I would design some stands for him and let him fill doe tags for me. He doesn't bow hunt.

There may be a little greed in my desire to have BB. It is more about time in the woods in years I shoot a buck early with the bow. I doubt I would fill 2 buck tags very often. The other comments are about practical ways to do QDM. Until they make it easier or I see signs of problem (dead deer-0 winter kill found on my farm) I will keep increasing acreage of food plots. The goal will be to try to feed them year round and take does when it doesn't hurt my strategy of low stress.

In MI I get the combo tag, but APR applies to that, which is okay, I like that too.........

However I do not see many other hunters all year, unless its a Saturday, and I fish on weekends

No problem in WI deer hunting..LOL.... that's a good one..

There is also no biological reason for anyone to be allowed to kill more than 1 buck.... If there is please post it... those bag limits are outdated .. and we're established with a fraction of the hunters we have today..

I agree with Bullwinkle ... BB In areas that need herd reduction .. but you should have to register does in person to get the BB tag...

The herd needs bag limit reform... allowing a over harvest of bucks in some areas that have low deer numbers... that's just stupid management to allow that to continue..

I know the dnr don't give a rats ... but you would think the guys hunting these areas would pop their heads out and smell what's going to happen when you send 700000 guys in the woods after 500000 of them already Hunted with xguns and archery tackle and have wiped out available adult bucks ... I can't believe rifle hunters are not standing on the capital steps!!!! In a lot of these no doe units .. what 18 counties?? The only deer that can be shot are bucks?.. give that 2 seasons with all being able to shoot 2 plus group hunt 8 rifle season?? and what's the point of owning land in these counties ??

It's just dumb deer management .. but that's what you get when you allow blow hards on committees to change things for personal agendas.

With all due respect most hunters are not that good, and the xbowers and bowhunters are not all going to fill buck tags........

With no doe tags, there will be even less people up north..........

The DNR should keep the buck rule, what they need to due is get rid of baiting and feeding, but with present politics, that is not going to happen....

The north is different though..... From my conversation with my friends the NW part of the state see a heck of alot of pressure, compared to the NE.......

I know alot of MN hunters who go there, but no one in MI, is coming across the Brule to hunt... Most pressure in the NE is Oconto and Marinette Counties, pretty much stops by Hwy 8......

The kill numbers will be intresting to see this year.... And I hope it will be along time before they allow the slaughter of fawns and does again.....

You bet I have killed bucks up here in the last few years........... but I can say, I never dropped a fawn or nubby or doe, in many years, in the north, and I always got doe tags, only to burn them in my fire........

You see those young bucks need to be born first...........

If I want to shoot does, and yes I do eat alot of venison, I go to my sister in laws in Big Falls in Waupaca Co......

Your right . Baiting and feeding is a huge problem.. then you put guys who have not bow hunted on the bait piles during the archery season with xguns ..?? I think it's time to sell the hunting land and and spend those funds in other states with better regs. That are managed to improve hunting

And with only 1 buck tag.. you prolly are going to be a little more picky. And take a pass on the 105lb. Year and half and hold out for a little better ..thus putting more bucks in the field in these hard hit counties.

"Your right . Baiting and feeding is a huge problem.. then you put guys who have not bow hunted on the bait piles during the archery season with xguns ..?? I think it's time to sell the hunting land and and spend those funds in other states with better regs. That are managed to improve hunting"

How in the world are the crossbow folks going to kill deer at those bait piles when we all know that baiting makes deer nocturnal!!

Come on AW - gotta go with ole' Razor on his post!

You will not see many bucks, sitting on a bait pile during LEGAL hours. And also hunting has changed.

Because of baiting/feeding, and very few hunters putting miles of boot leather on the ground, they see very few or any deer for the most part.......

Add to that a shortage of time to hunt, and you bet they are not seeing deer. But if you have the time, and that is what is needed, believe me, there are bucks north of Hwy 8.....

I know deer drives are taboo on this site, but I met a guy, two weeks ago, in 10's area. I measured a deer for him, and was looking at his springer pups. The deer this guy and his family have taken, in the last 10 years is impressive.

They have 8 brothers and cousins, and these guys pound the ground, from daylight to sunset, in areas most guys will not walk in, and they shoot some nice deer.... These guys were true woodsman, from talking to this guy...... I even picked his brain, as a solo hunter,,,,, you can always learn from someone

Also why do I see so many young bucks in MI, and not in Wis..... Because they have choices... I love their bonus buck, by going with combo tags, which then have APR attached to the selection of what can be taken.......... Most guys are buying combo tags, and the proof, it works even on public land, is the amount of deer I see.

Here is an example. 10 said he hunts Vilas County... He will see a few deer, in time hunted, but north of Watersmeet, in the Ottawa, last fall I saw over 10 bucks from spikes to basket 6 pointers.... Both have similar terrain, and winters, food etc, predators.... I have seen what APR does, and its beneficial, and I am not a Trophy hunter, but it has put more deer on the landscape

Either way.. to the DNR. These are now the #1 animal and source of sausage meat in 18 counties!!! .. really?? Add the xgun kill and what's the future looking like..lol... multiply that by 2 a year for guys that eat a lot.. and in a few short years you will have damaged the buck population to the extent that there is no point in owning a acre of northern WI... unless you just like feeding mosquitoes. .. LOL some of us can't wait 10 years for it to recover ..

If there are plenty of bucks.. then there should be plenty of does .. which there isn't enough to harvest..sooooooo. 1 buck is more than fair in these decimated counties

Heck some maybe should be closed to all deer hunting to get the herd back.. but killing off all your young bucks ... is like cutting your nose off despite your face

Just me.

Antler - Sentimental - but not the way most folks think! There is a mentality afoot called "fillin' tags" and it's as old as the hills!

"Yup, me and the boys filled up last year"

Some guys wear it like a badge of honor! And they my friend are idiots! But the world is full of them as we all know.

It's all just the same excuse to justify actions. .. very little respect to the animal anymore... and is why you see so many way over board poachers these days... society is excepting less respect for the deer by hunters..

To me the deer and being able to hunt wild ones is far more important ..Unfortunately it's not going to get better.. everyone wants the easy way out..

Maybe some one needs to start a archery season... recurve/ long bow only.. In those days you had to respect the game... you had no choice.

Get rid of all the wheels and only true archers will remain. The playing field will be leveled and people will be forced to really hone their skills.

I meet alot of good hunters, and I know alot of guys have respect for the animal........

I think what has gone wrong today is the commercialization of deer hunting. I mean its TV hunting, baiting, deer farming, every imaginable item to plant as a food plot.... Then we have fist pumping, and crying, and all kinds of staged emotions set up by producers of these shows.......

I mean come on........ Then its all about scoring, and scoring, like its a baseball game.... Instead of saying, hey thats a nice deer you got, its, "how big are the G2's...........

I believe in the P&Y, and the Buck and Bear Club, but the intentions are to honor an animal, and keep quality records, it should not be about YOU.....

AW - It sounds like you hunt in a very crowded area, where do you hunt?????

they say that 75% of hunters are in the northern half of the state.. If that's even close to true... you have the majority killing bucks only in 18 counties that have so low of herd numbers that you can't kill a doe???

And some how this is about me??

In 2 seasons of this it will take 5 or more to restock the buck herd in these counties.. I maybe hunt 3... so how is this all about me if there still are 15 other counties being hammerred??

It's just stupid management ... If there's not enough does to hunt. 1 buck is more than enough or close the season and let the herd recover for a year or 2... Some guys go years without even seeing a antler.. and that's before xguns over a feed pile ... it isn't going to be pretty for the next 5 to 10 years with just a year or 2 of buck only.

If all I was concerned with was self . Why waste Te here.. everyone knows you need to move to where the deer are.. I can do that.. always have.. however landowners in these counties should be standing on the capital steps in protest of the coming buck slaughter.

By comparison, Waupaca county, with a small land mass harvested more bucks than Florence, Forest, Iron, and Washburn counties COMBINED. The difference is habitat, climate and private land managment with the wolf being a very small factor.

41,000 archery bucks for how many licenses sold? 102,000 gun bucks for how many licenses sold? What % of the gun only hunters actually killed a buck vs. tagged(party hunting)a buck?

Bottom line is the DNR wants that $24 buck tag revenue.

AW - Really, how many guys in this State shoot two bucks a season? I know many many hunters and I cannot think of one of them. Maybe Im off base here, but I really dont think it would really shock the conscience the truth be told.

Yes, there will be the "fillin tags" guys but I like to think they are a dying breed.

Bucks can and often are hard to kill, some ya could kill with a hockey stick! WEe may very well be surprised with the numbers.

I hunt like a monkey in rut and I can tell you I have never done it, never killed two bucks in a season! Not that I couldn't have, but I like to shoot larger deer and thus pass on many - I think many here do the same in part.

As far as baiting we know that deer are nocturnal at bait piles so that's not even a issue. :^)

At the risk of sounding disrespectful (apology if I am), I look at this as the "chicken little" mentality - any change that occurs and some folks go running around the barnyard yelling "the sky is falling," when in reality only the weather has changed and something new is on the horizon.

Screw the private land owner who pays big taxes and big Jing for his little piece of the pie... it really doesn't pay to own land in one of these 18 counties for hunting... to hunt what?? Squirrels? Rabbits?? What?

Don't get me wrong.. If the deer numbers allowed a antlerless kill .. it would not be near as bad.. but watch those numbers you posted over buck only seasons... lol.. I think they will tell the story of what I am predicting ..

Crappy deer hunting gets crappier .. Instead of better

The buck kill will be much higher with this addition and the fact you can't shoot a sausage deer without antlers...

And your saying the sky is not falling?

Add the news after a few years of buck only you and xguns... and you will see.. I would rather see them reform the bag limits prior to the slaughter of what few bucks are left in these counties.. After the slaughter .. guys like me will be pushing daisy's by the time there is a decent buck population.

Guess it depends were you are in the State, but I have no complaints.

I believe those folks that complain or the most part have a legitimate complaint - others, just like to complain.

Private guys, QDM works. I am a living example and trust me, I did it myself and I am not a rocket scientist. Every year it gets better. I am not the only one doing it, some neighbors are in

This is a huge sign. One xbow, baiting, beer drinking and smoking on the stand neighbor put in a food plot. Baiting became illegal this year in our county. I am elated. He normally takes a bunch of bucks drinking, smoking and hunting with his bait pile ( yea I know I should report the guy but he doesn't harm me personally and he cracks me up). He is going to follow the law!!!!! He is now improving the neighborhood instead if hurting it.

If you've spent any time on this site Bull you know that bucks do not get killed over bait as they are nocturnal at bait sites and therefore unkillable. :^)

I guess I am wondering what you would have reported your neighbor for? Was the bait excessive? I dont advocate nor would I ever dream of drinking on stand, but some drink a beer - not illegal. If he's disabled or over 65 the Xbow was OK and the smoking other than a bad idea, is just as legal.

Interesting! Any insite?

Bait and xbow are like shooting fish in a barrel. He laughs at me. Says the hardest part is managing the sound of opening his beer and taking a leak without being seen

Gave up hunting Trempeleau Co, and I had a primo spot on a nice farm of 135 acres, and saw alot of nice bucks there, and got lucky once in awhile.......

But I am happiest, hunting the UP, and parts of N Wis. I love my UP spots, go in via canoe, lots of quiet, sometimes camp out, and I can roam roam roam.......

Quality of bucks is not the same, but its a challenge and one that I relish. You have to hunt where you are having the most fun. I guess in alot of ways I am still a kid at heart.

95% of all contacts with anyone have always been positive, and I have met some real characters.... Back in Trempeleau, lots of property line wars, etc,,,,, just not for me,,,,,

Going back to the UP on Friday, so that will be it for me on the site for quite awhile, only get to town every two weeks, where I can check on the site from the library,,,,,,,,,,,,

Wolves have really been no problem, they are a 2 edge sword. On one hand they show me, there are still some wild spots left, on the other, they are tough on the deer come winter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ya gotta be kidding me here Bull - this guy shoots more than one buck? With a crossbow and bait? Really?

Well he's not a hunter at all then. He's a poacher!And ya say, "He doesnt harm me personally?" I beg to differ!

He not only is hurting you as an adjoining landowner -he's hurting every legal bowhunter as well. His behavior is reprehensable.

You say you find this neighbor can be as funny? He can be as funny as Jay Leno - but you live right next door to a criminal! Would you find him so funny if he was stealing things out of your garage? How about all the garages in the area? How about stealing some stuff out of the cars parked in the nieghborhood?

He's stealing deer from you, me and every other lawful bowhunter in the State.

He is committing a criminal act Bullwinkle - and he really needs to be stopped.

If your not part of the solution here, your part of the problem!

I understand how nieghbors dont want to "get involved" - I really understand. But there are things you can do "without" getting involved personally to put a stop to this illegal behavior.

Quite a world we live in!

Bull, couldn't you substitute xbow with ANY weapon and get the same result?

Outsiders don't mess with locals and fair very well. I talked to him in a nice way and told him what harm he is doing. He is changing - that's the right way neighbors deal with things in the country

He does crack me up.

If he quits baiting, that will be a huge step forward in the neighborhood.

I find that very hard to believe.

I talked to him and he agreed to change. I like how I handled this. No threats, convinced him of a behavior change and still have a relationship.

He quit baiting and built a food plot - pretty stinking cool

That also means more dead bucks in the baited 18 buck only counties..

Lol... I can't believe so few here see this... I have not talked to 1 single hunter who thinks this is not a problem in these buck only counties.... oh well.. I guess time will tell... cause the slaughter is 9 only 8 weeks away... get your corn ready boys and girls... load them rages on those bolts ... wack those bucks off..When they are gone .. no worries .. you will have the nibbles to wack. Next season... All 100 lbs of them... man what satisfaction that must be..LOL

Shoots a bigger buck than I do almost every year I am ashamed to admit. He can hunt every day since he lives there. One stand on a piece if land with a house and less than 10 acres. I have 54 stands, plant 15-16 acres for the deer and a almost as many tax parcels as he had acres.

Xbows and corn are a deadly combination

I do not agree with that, but there are some who do.... It will not happen

By the way no doe kill allowed in the UP except for Menomonee Co this year

So is using a rifle outside gun season or a BB program. Everyone has their line of ethics and tolerance. As long as it falls under the regs I personally could care less.

Half of the state now is no baiting including Waupaca. That also means running illegal mineral sites in the entire state off season.Either protect the resource and call the tip line or don't grouse about it. Imo, the net effect of xbows will be minimal.

A. Deer are nocturnal at bait sites and B. Big bucks are not shot off bait sites.

I dont know how your violating "criminalistic" nieghbor is shooting these bucks!

Even in bait free counties a ton of bucks are shot over the feed pile... If it were not the case.. why then would so many fight to keep a pile of feed being legal???

Makes no sense to fight for it if your not using it... does it???

Now thro the rifle hunters in the bow season with their new Xrifle ...lol.. I see the are making them in a AR style now....funny...

8 talked to the biggest archery shop by me at a show this spring.. he said he can't keep xguns instock... but we be shipping some bows as non currents on Ebay cause they aren't selling like in past years... lol.. just wait.... This is gonna be a mess .

100% correct. 4-6 yo bucks are not coming to a bait pile.In fact they will run the other way.

No mighty hunter would admit it.. so who knows??? But the big deer are always showing up in trucks.. and many times those same trucks have evidence of corn

I also know guys who bait heavy.. but when they tag a nice buck... it never is where they are baiting for some odd reason??? Lol..

Deer do become nocturnal quicker in big woods with corn piles when there is pressure. No reason to move in daylight to feed, easy to head to the pile.

I like to bait from time to time, in the late season I find it somewhat effective.

Rut - You spout off plenty of data - but do you have any documented proof or studies? Would be interesting to see. Do you have personal knowledge of deer being shot at bait sites 2 minutes before close and 15 minutes after? Interesting....I'm sure it happens with or without bait, but really as much as you would like folks to believe - hard to believe.

And no, Bullwinkle nothing is "easy" in bow hunting - been doing it 40 years now. It's always a challenge and never a "sure" thing!

Deer browse.

They simply do not eat shelled corn as diets in deer heards call for more. We as hunters should know that.

Think of it as if everyone of us ate nothing but hotdogs for 2-3 weeks straight and nothing else? Feel a little sick maybe? Deer browse for a reason.

So for those of you that believe a deer lies 100 yards from a bait pile,, gets up and eats and go's back and lay's down - you really need to do some research.

BT, that wasn't me this time, I think it was AW.

I did it (baited) for years. Most years I filled my tag opening weekend. It got so easy I quit. Became ashamed of myself for hunting that way.

Took up hunting them on trails and became very successful at that. Then decided to buy land and develop it - by far my best journey

I still maintain my friend, that there is nothing in bow hunting that is "easy" - gun hunting is much easier for me.

There are no guarantees at 12 - 15 - 20 - 25 shots, we've all been there! Nothing easy! If bowhunting was "easy" I would quit and I think most on here would as well.

As far as you being ashamed I find that interesting Bullwinkle! Your relating that you felt ashamed when your doing something that at the time was perfectly legal (baiting). But stopped when you felt ashamed.

In the same token you've NOT related any shame when you had full knowledge of your criminal neighbor killing multiple bucks illegally. And then sitting quietly on the sidelines.

Ya want to feel ashamed about something Bullwinkle...there ya go!

Every buck on my wall or European mount (and there's quite a few) was shot with the aid of a grunt call or a set of rattlin' horns, with only one exception.

I'm glad your now shooting deer on trails and your now having a wonderful journey!

Truth be told, baiting is really no different from the Xbow rant - when someone believes that someone else may be getting the upper hand using a weapon or a method that they perceive as an advantage in the whitetail world, they get pissy!

1)Sanctuary plan 2)Thermal bedding planting plan 3) TSI/hinge cutting 4)woody browse plantings 5)soft/hard mast plantings 6)Waterhole installations 7) wetland improvements 8)stand placement strategy(gun/bow/doe) 9)Trailcam surveys/herd health/ management plan 10) property goals/guidelines 11)neighbor/warden relations/communication 12)predator control 12.5)Visual block on every foodplot and road for zero shining. 13)Oh yea, a 12 month food plot plan not just the 100 day deer season.

90% of landowners don't spend 5 minutes doing any of these.Look at your breakfast plate. The chicken is involved, the pig is all in.

Food plots are only a part of my strategy.

Blood - I didn't do nothing with my neighbor. I spoke to him man to man and guess what - he's changing. I am shocked you guys don't see this as a good thing. It relates to novembers #11

Ever hear anyone brag about shooting a buck over bait? Like "they came right into the corn and a shot it"

You never do - people who bait are ashamed of it as well.

When was the last time you read a how to, this happened to me baiting story in the hunting magazines? What about tv? Never. It is the part of hunting that is shameful

I don't bait, I've done it and I just didn't care for it, but I have no problem with anyone doing it as long as it's legal. I look at it the same as the guy who plants a food plot right next to, or in, the woods. He's putting out food for the deer so that when they come in they can be shot.

Food plots are significantly different than baiting. Not even close. I have 15-16 acres of plots that the deer can enter from every direction. Not a 2' circle 20 yards from my stand. Oh by the way, you can tuck the corn in some sticks so the deer have to face away from you for a perfect quartering away shot. Fish in the barrel.

So Zinger does that mean you think enhancement of natural food sources and hing cutting is baiting?

And no, I am not ashamed to say that on occasion mostly in the late season, I do bait! No shame here! It's legal, I follow the law and I have nothing to be ashamed about and neither does anyone else that follows the rules.

As far as your bait plots Bullwinkle, you can swing it anyway you want. You plant food plots to attract deer onto your property. Then you shoot them. I do the same thing - plant a food plot and shoot a deer in it. Your baiting deer only on a larger scale.

So if someone positions deer at a bait site "fish in a barrel" What? - "tuck the corn in some sticks" - That's called a "crib" use it bear/deer baiting - ya sure you ever baited before?

Bull - I dont know what you said to your neighbor to change his criminal behavior - but I've been around enough criminals in my time to know the chances of your counseling changing his behavior are pretty slim. Hope it works, you have to hunt next to him - Good Luck!

We got to get together man, I got some DP traps just waiting for coon in October/November! :^)

It's funny how we as hunters see things differently from each other especially when baiting is involved. But the practice is not for everyone, just like xbows and muzzleloaders I guess.

Deer do come to bait sites in the daylight - I have only shot one 10 point off bait and a good share of does over the years.

Baiting does not "make" deer nocturnal - they are creatures of the dark to begin with, limited daytime activity most often.

Some baiting causes "turf" wars. We see it during gun season, bear season...even guys running bear dogs see it. Heck, guys just walking to their stand experience it. It's public land...going to happen, I wish it wouldn't!

Deer browse - in a 24 hour period they eat many different things - they have to!! They do not "just" eat shell corn and lay down. They need a mixture of food sources. Everything from acorns to mushrooms and sapling browse, clover to name a few are on the menu!

Yes, we should all hunt the same way. Follow the laws, be ethical. As far as ethics go, everyone has a different view on the ethics. Let's just get along and enjoy the hunt.

If you see a person breaking the law, they are not a hunter; they are a violator and it is your responsibility as a law abiding person to turn them in.

Time for this thread to die!