Time to get rid of them is long overdue. I have never seen a single statistic regarding convicitons achieved only because the person was identified by a backtag and identification could not have been made in any other way. If they there that effective more states would use them and Wisconsin would require them for small game hunting.
Who wears their backtag on their pack? Who leaves it on their pack when they take the pack off while on stand? Guilty here. I pretty much always have a backpack with me when hunting. About the only time I don't is if I get out of the tree to relieve myself. When I get to the tree it stays right on the backpack facing out and high enough on the tree for anyone to see. Why would it make any practical sense to move it to my back where it is not visible to anyone and makes noise every time I move? If I am in a ground blind I take it off the pack and hook it up where it can be seen, not on my back. Heck, even when I am hunting in Minnesota it is likely to still be on my backpack. I cannot see a jury anywhere in Wisconsin convicting you for doing the right thing (leaving it on the pack where it can be seen)? Even if it is not according to every letter of the law it just makes sense. Any warden that cites you in that situation is a total jerk or has some sort of issue with you to start with.
What about hunting in the rain? Anyone using a backpack is going to leave it there, who is going to put holes in their rain gear just to hang that tag on while on stand? Mine will be on my pack or displayed in some other way.
Time to get rid of them is long overdue. I have never seen a single statistic regarding convicitons achieved only because the person was identified by a backtag and no identification could not have been made in any other way. Sure it happens once in a while, pictures of examples were even posted here in another thread a while back. If they are that effective more states would use them and Wisconsin would require them for small game hunting.
Why does Wisconsin think that deer hunters need to be treated like prison inmates wearing a number? Time for Wisconsin to treat deer hunters like any other recreationist.
Most states do not even issue a back tag.
That being said there are many folks that dont mind them.
Attached to a backpack and hung in a tree and displayed so they are easily read - I think is a great idea. A backtag case would never get to a jury under those circumstances. Any prosecutors worth their salt would dismiss that in a flash.
If worn on your back and in the tree, nobody could possibly read them at all.
Identity theft Jeff? Really...Treated like prison inmates? Huh? I would appreciate the three free meals and some time off :^) - Hardly being treated "like" inmates.
Ever been an inmate Jeff? If you had been you realize how ridiculous that statement was. I dont know of a correctional facility in the State were inmates wear a number across their backs! Maybe back in the 50's!
Yes, ever year not only wardens, but sheriff's deputies and other LE officers make cases based upon back tags. So they do serve a purpose.
Just kinda sad that the good folks have to wear them because of the "not so" good folks that ruin it. But isn't that always the way it goes?
Yes, - they'll be gone someday. I can sit around and tell my Grand children another "we used to have too" story!
Ya there are lots of ways people can get your identity but having your dnr number, dob, etc could get them into your online DNR profile, license and hunting application sections. Heck, I think at one time your SSN was on the backtag too. Might still be, I don't have one available to look at right now.
BT, I believe it would never get to a jury either. But to see that it doesn't get to a jury you're going to have to take some time off work and talk to the DA because if you do like 99% of the people and just pay it a judge and jury never see it.
I've yet to have anyone give me a good reason why deer and bear hunters seem to have an assumed guilt in that they need to wear a tag identifying themselves but small game, duck, raccoon, etc. hunters don't. If it's such a good reason then why not have every hunter wear one? And if that's such a good idea make fishermen wear them also. SInce I'm on a roll why not just make every citizen wear one? Think of the crimes that could be solved if everyone had to prominantly wear an ID tag on their back?
Actually I have asked wardens in every county I hunt in about this. They have all said they have no problem with it. This is a warden discretion thing, so I have no legal problem with it either. This way actually makes more sense, as my tag is displayed outwardly on my pack as it hangs on a hook in the tree.
Sorry - just had to say it!
Zinger - as my old friend Ruger1022 used to say "taking it to a new level" - Really? It's a backtag for pete's sake! Been around since...forever!
My Dad wore one, my Grandpa wore one, I wear one and so does my son! Kind of a tradition! :^)
Again - you will live to see the day they will be gone! It will not be that long.
This is all common sense here guys. Pasq - when the warden shows up and you have gobbs of sweat pouring down your face - I think you're golden!
Rut - The saftey harness over the tag - another golden moment! Do the best you can without falling out of the tree and killing yourself!
Wardens and LE officers all pretty much hunt themselves. The vast majority know when it's a saftey issue, honest mistake or some BS someone is trying to get away with.
Just be ready to explain your actions - make sure your intentions are good.
Jeff - so good to hear you have never seen the inside of a jailhouse! LOL :^)
I am not saying this is correct but that is what I feel. If you can't hunt no need for the back tag.
So if your worried about identity theft - dont wear your backtag in public. Problem solved!
Price County Hunter - Your right, it is surprising to some, me! Are you sure the deer is dead? Because when I am tracking a deer, I am hunting! I think you may slide on a deer that is down and life less and drops within sight of your stand, but again as you approach, it may get a second wind and another arrow may be called for?
I'm not sold on the not wearing your tag when retrieving your deer and I think folks may be headed for trouble. It's hard to believe attempting to retrieve game is not an act of hunting.
Arrow1 - I think you are correct.
Knife2sharp - No one, I mean no one on here will admit to being cited for no backtag. It's a conservation violation and punishable by a public tar and feathering! Can't blame them for not stepping up to the plate if they have had the misfourtion!
If you have your bow with you while recovering your game, then, yes, I would agree you need to have your backtag on. The situation where the tag is not required is something like this: While hunting and wearing your backtag, you shot your deer and you tracked it down and found it dead. Then, you go back to your cabin or truck and take off your backtag and camo, leave your bow there, and collect your field dressing and dragging stuff and then go and recover your deer without wearing your tag. You need to take your backtag with you during recovery because you will need to tag the deer, but you don't have to wear it. That is legal. At least, that is what the warden told me.
Pretty sure that while tracking everyone helping to find/track a deer or bear must have a license and wear their backtag. Once the carcass tag is attached I think those requirements go away. I don't think it matters if you have a weapon with you or not.
So, who here has needed help tracking a deer or bear they shot? Did you have trouble finding someone with a license to help and just get whomever was available thus coaxing them into what neither one you thought was illegal? I have. It is really hard to find someone with a bear license when you are hunting alone.
Currently your back tag is your license, only valid after you sign it. You only need to wear it when participating in hunting activities.
That's the rule and it is in the works to be changed.
Do I agree with it? No. But I can live with it and will have to come up with another way of catching trespassers when I am not on the property.
Never had a problem with any small game hunters, berry, or mushroom pickers. They have called and asked for permission. At least the ones I know of.
The waterfowlers and a guy on his dirt bike were caught with when I got a picture of their license plates.
2 years ago I had an intelligent trespasser that had his backtag on upside down. Very interesting to say the least!
If it wasn't for vandals, I wouldn't run as many cameras as I do.
I believe that only once I have caught a person trespassing. The neighbors and I always talk and know who is going to be in the woods and if they hit a deer and it crosses the line the phone rings and we work together to recover the animal. They even call when I am not around. I am lucky, I have good neighbors.
Surprised how many are OK with it and actually I am as well I guess.
Stopping short on Big game hunters, deer/bear is fine we dont need to spend anymore money - law enforcement likes it - good enough for me!
I'd rather go with that tag information than "I got no idea who came onto my property and stole my stand" as an investigating officer.
As far as individual "freedoms" go Price County hunter - you have the individual "freedom" not to wear one. Of course, than you also would not be allowed to exercise your individual "freedom" to hunt.
We just finished hosting an exchange student from Russia.
His father is a small game hunter in Russia. Talkl about "freedoms" and hunting.
You would not believe the background check and "permits" and money involved for those permits that his Father spends on the "freedom" to hunt small game alone. Our student explained that very few people in Russia legally own firearms because the cost to the government is so great and there is much, much paperwork involved.
I'll wear the backtag!
Kind of like the poacher who only shoots deer at night during the deer season with a hunting license in his pocket. Hey, ca't be ticketed for hunting without a license.
Here's your "asked and answered" answer Zinger! Ready?
First - How many gun/archery hunters are in the State? How many bear hunters and Hound guys in the State? Any idea? A really big bunch of folks!
Answer: So it's a trespassing thing first and foremost Zinger - with all those people in the woods the "powers to be", thought it would be a great idea to have those folks wear a back tag!
Secondly it aids in enforcement actions for CO's.
Not my law, didn't invent the law - but now you have it Zinger!
That is the reason! You may not like it, I may not like it, but that's the law! Some folks dont like to wear a seat belt in a car - that's sad, but it is the law. O.K.?
The DNR dors not trust a single hunter in this state.
I know it's not your law but you sure seem to be defending it. I don't care if it aids LE. If LE was allowed to just enter ones house in search of drugs or other illegal stuff that would aid LE also.
How many guys trespassing or stealing from private land where a tag anyway? Don't they typically enter and exit in darkness, sort of in stealth mode?
If the backtag helped aid in trespassing, I guess that is a good reason. Maybe a compromise could be the tag needs to be on your back when entering and exiting, or while traveling to your next location? When in your stand, it just needs to be displayed so it can actually be seen. However, that is not on your back. If you were to hang it on your day pack, it stands a better chance to be seen, hanging on that pack instead.
I often wonder why people are so hesitant to get rid of rules that don't make much sense? Is it tradition? Is it something deeper than that? I see arguments for and against some of these debates (bait, crossbows, back tags, wolves, online registration, shooting does, etc.) And too often people just "say" what they feel, instead of backing their argument with some sort of credible science? Most of the time people insinuate the slob side of things, assuming someone has an advantage over them. I'm here to tell you, many people have advantages. The human species is programmed to want more. Many of us prove this in these silly arguments. When you argue how someone might have an advantage, you are basically stating you are the same person by trying to take that advantage away. Instead, think how this advantage also applies to you. Do you really think we should wear a back tag? Maybe it is such a good idea, that everyone should have a bar code and likewise a barcode reader? The advantages are incredible. Scan them digitally, and you know who they are, and what they've done.
I would never think the hunting population would embrace socialism, but it seems the majority of the posters on this particular forum are asking for it?
Remember the online registration topic? Poachers are not using any type of registration system as it stands, yet the majority somehow saw them getting an advantage out of it? Not one person could convince me how that was so....you know why? No science backing your reason why.
Here is your answer. Today backtags are your license for deer and bear hunting. Plain and simple.
Yes, I like them for catching trespassers. As to them sneaking in under the cover of darkness, no, they march right in and drive the property when I am at work. Never had an issue with trespassers during the archery season, only gun season.
I don't care either way, keep them or do something different. We'll never get rid of trespassers.
Those same guys marching on your land and driving on it, are they wearing back tags? Are their vehicles carrying license plates or ATV registration stickers?
You nailed it Mike. Back tags only apply to honest people. By making everyone wear it, you don't solve much. People will still be so brazen to trespass with or without your knowledge, and with or without a back tag.....unfortunate as that may be.
I've had plenty of theft off private property over the years. Not from fellow sportsmen, but instead THIEVES!
Yes no matter what we do with backtags we will still have thieves. If the lawmakers want to do away with them I am fine.
Yes, honest people wear them as required, but they will be gone as those who wish want to see. I am betting that trespassing and other violations will rise with the inability to identify them form a distance.
No matter how hard we try we will still have to deal with people who don't care about others private property.
Your question has been answered over and over and apparently it's not the answer you're "looking for!"
Deer hunters, gun/bow, bear hunters baiters/hounders represent a huge slice of the hunting community. Many will argue they represent the biggest slice of the pie - that's why it was decided to have those folks wear backtags, which now serve a double purpose - it's you're license.
Thanks Mike for the imput as our tags do serve as our license - that's a good point and one I over looked.
Zinger you may not care if LE likes them, but then again your not a LE Officer and have never investigated a trespass or theft complaint or a deer being poached...have you? So understandably you dont really have a clue. But that I understand.
Mike - you're right... we will never get rid of trespassers just like we will never get rid of people that shoot deer after dark, hunt out of season or any nuumber of criminal acts.
So they serve there purpose - they will be gone - so take a breath!
It appears now we will all be carrying credit card like licenses in the future - I'll wait for that battle with you Zinger - because as sure as I am sitting here, you'll find fault with that program as well.
Exhausting!
"it's your license" is a very weak argument. Your liscense could be made part of your registration tag or one of the other 5' of stuff they print out when you buy one.
I know they will be gone and it's about time!
Well, there you have it. Government and logical just doesn't mix.
Yes, I have caught trespassers without backtags, tearing up my food plots on dirt bikes.
Yes, today your backtag is your license. This year we still have to wear a backtag to be legal.
Yes it could be made a smaller portion of the stuff they print out. You make very valid points.
Makes no difference to me. What ever they decide I can live with. Actually it will be a lot easier seeing as I buy a patrons license and won't have to hunt for my backtag every fall!
I can see it now- For sale antique backtag holders at all the junk sales!LOL
Now you peeked my interest..how have luminocs cost you two trophy deer...
I was wondering the same thing? Although I've never used them, if properly tuned, the extra rear weight on the arrow should have been worked out through tweeking and tuning long before those shafts hit the woods? Now buck fever, or not bending at the waste or target panic are things that are more explainable lol.
Just friendly ribbing 10+! ;-)
Available in both blaze orange and camo. Not having to wear license plates sure is a nice feature when hunting in other states.
No, I don't see the value as compared to the downside. Frankly, if I see you on my property making away with my tree-stand, you will still be there when the sheriff arrives.
You may very well be the one that "makes sure" I'm still there when the Sheriff comes. Good for you Mike!
Although you sound most confident, as most that attempt such activities not everyone is foolish enough to confront and attempt the apprehension of a criminal - Thankfully most folks play it smart. Thus the advantage of a backtag number!
And that's what makes America great!! We agree to disagree! :^)
Trespass is NOT a conservation violation - hard to suspend someone's recreational privileges - but I guess a Judge can do pretty much what he/she wants - but dont hold your breath!
Trespassing in WI is RARELY handled as a criminal offense! Usually a civil forfiture fine and time to pay!
And yes, jtek - if they are not wearing them - it has a great effect for LE - they receive a citation for not wearing one as required by law!
I have however seen several truancy cases were the Judge had suspended hunting/fishing for not attending school - if that helps!
Mother in-law while crossing a cross walk with the grand kids was hit and killed, she managed to push the kids away just before she was hit, kids have that haunting memory burned in there minds forever. While reading the police report, it stated there was a smell of alcohol on his breath but was not legally impaired, the hardest part of that report was when I read, the driver stated that "sometimes my brakes work and sometimes they don't" His punishment 40hrs community service. So when I read threads like this and others and some of the punishments one wishes should be handed down I just shake my head in disbelief. Although there should be concerns within these threads.
In fact, I dont even know if I have met a serial trespasser over the years - seems the vast majority are from the "one and done" club.
I have posted before on this site, that trespassing in our County is a minor problem at best. Years ago, during gun season we had a "trespass patrol" which was a 2 man car that did nothing but investigate complaints of trespass.
When I get back to work I'm going to check with our Child Support Agency and see if they have ever had a suspension of hunting/fishing privleges. That would be interesting!
In fact you hardly see anyone post their land these days. Years ago you'd see an ocean of orange and yellow signs...not any longer.
I believe our fine is 262.00 for trespass now. I guess most folks got tired of paying!
Dont get me wrong, I'm not an idiot - of course we have issues of trespassing but what I am saying is those complaints have gone way down.
NWO is correct. There are bigger fish to fry! Not that trespassing is not an important issue, it is, but in the BIG picture....not so much!
All that I'm saying is that someone who repeatedly trespasses and gets caught could lose their hunting and fishing privileges for a year or two as a deterrent. Loading someone's name in the same DNR data base that rejects deadbeat parents certainly wouldn't be onerous and would require no tracking.
NWO - I'm sorry that you and your family have gone through that. I am not advocating for capital punishment for minor offenses. I would merely like to see some justice. I would opine that if things were as you stated about those drivers, inadequate justice was meted out.
There is actually no data available that would "track" how many times backtags are usefully to law enforcement - it varies from County to County.
All this huffing and puffing - they'll be gone soon and we then can find something different to complain about!
HUGE Ifs there. The positives are so minimal they are not even measured, something you admitted to. Far more negatives including costs to the DNR and hunters. There is a reason NO OTHER state has them. As stated, I still have yet to see one decent reason why they need to stay. Glad they are on the way out. Thing is, for people who really like wearing them, there will be no law preventing you from wearing an old one or putting your license, phone, SSN, CC PIN, etc in there for others to see.
real hunters will complain about the enormous buck harvest by the xgunners in 2014.
I agree, but I would add that real hunters will also consider the impact of their actions on the wildlife.
Baiting? I am happy Waupaca is now banned. Our disabled hunter used bait, total pain in the butt. Effective on young deer but mature doe/bucks knew the game. A better "bait site" on private land is a simple waterhole. Amazing how it's a game magnet. I put 3 in, they work great.
I disagree. That is the very reason why we fought for a separate season and license. While none of us know if that will happen or not, having the separate defined season does give the ability to place blame on the offending group and not on all.
With all the "real" problems facing us as bowhunters, to fixate on such a minor issue is too put it mildly....alarming!!
They'll be gone soon Happy and as I posted earlier you'll get a credit card type license that you can haul around in your wallet!! I've seen a prototype and they are pretty neat!
In the meantime, take a breathe, the backtags are on the way out.
You can spend that time wisely scouting for another minor issue to complain about! You now have something to look forward too - move on man! :^)
They been around 30+ years - all of a sudden their inconvienant, impractical and a BIG dollar issue for WDNR and hunters - ah, ya, OK!
Kevin from Wisconsin's Link
My prediction going forward is the real hunters of the great state of Wisconsin will quickly work to shorten the xgun season. Thank God the seasons were separated when xguns were included.
xgunner harvest success rates will far surpass that of real bowhunters. because being able to pull the trigger on an xgun while looking through a high power scope and dropping a deer at 100 yards in not bowhunting.
Totally unnecessary and to bad mouth fellow hunters is nothing short of cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Let's review this for like the 8 billionth time!
Crossbows are NOT bows - there not ARCHERY EQUIPMENT! Why some folks want to so desperately lump them together is beyond me. There totally different and they both have there owns seasons!
It's NOT bowhunting - It's CROSSBOW HUNTING!
Like it or not this is now a legal means for hunters in this State to harvest whitetail deer. Get over it!
We'll see what this season brings and move on from there!
What we should be focusing on is is hunter soliderity and not name calling and belittlement!
We have enough people out there pissed at us already!! We dont need this in-house name calling crap and fighting!
The problem is we are, a selfish bunch! Most of us have some degree of selfishness and I think at times I too have been guilty! It's the what's in it for me, what can I shoot - somebody's got an unfair advantage - bastards!
It's a big wait and see on the X-bow issue!
Just wondering - States that do allow crossbows - do they have any deer left? Just a thought! :^)
OH MY GOD! They can kill a pig at 100yds. Time to have a seperate season for compound bows. Just because you see someone shoot a weapon at extreme distance doesn't mean it will be dooable to the majority of hunters.
When you say real bowhunters, you are referring to those that shoot trad gear right? Compounds are just a click below xbows in regard to getting proficient at. You do aim through a peep and then another site (which might be lighted and can be dialed in to the exact length [HHA Optimizer]), you then squeeze your trigger releasing the arrow being held the whole time on the drop away rest. Only difference - the draw. With 85% let off, you can draw as early as you want and hold as long as needed.
I am a compound hunter and not a real bow hunter. I don't ever see going to an xbow but would if I needed to for health reasons. I don't think they will be a big deal at all.
forget the wind- just lob in your bolts from 275 yards.
Perhaps this is semantics, but SCI and WBH did not fight for a separate season and license - they settled for it. SCI and WBH fought for no inclusion at all other than the existing elderly and disabled exemption. They didn't even want 55 and older. That was very clear in the SCI ad in WON. When they (SCI and WBH) realized the Legislature had their nads in a vice, they went to plan B and settled for the separate season and license. That was a GREAT thing and will allow WI to track it all closely. It I was a betting man, I'd say in 5 years, we'll still have xbows and trad/compound seasons running concurrently.
Yup no rifle there! Pure Archery LOL!
Pete-pec's Link
Anyone can lob whatever they want. Does it mean they will? Here's a vertical guy launching a 240 yard arrow without a bag as a rest lol.
Yup, no rifle there! PURE ARCHERY LOL LOL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCOn2HkJJt8
Pete-pec's Link
You guys crack me up!
I hope you get the point? There are bozos everywhere. I figured since there is a video showing guys taking 100 yard shots with the vertical bow, that EVERYONE must be doing it? No, they're not!
For the record, I can shoot to 60 yards and hit a paper plate without any magnification on my pins with my compound. I still only shoot deer under 30 yards, and 95% of the time, under 20.
My prediction is there will be an insignificant increase in the deer harvest this year with the added crossbow hunters, but then people can blame the winter, or the weather, or the DNR, or a crazy rut, or Dr. deer, or……whatever may be the reason those crossbow guys didn't do as well as predicted.
If people would focus on their own hunt, and not worry so much about someone else's, they might have an enjoyable season. I moved two ladder stands, and trimmed some small shooting lanes, and checked cameras the last two days. Nothing real nice on the cameras, and I'll still have a great 30 day vacation at the end of October, sharing this great resource with my fellow hunters.
Good luck my fellow hunters…..ALL YOU ALL! } >-->
While we are off topic anyway Happygolucky, why don’t you just come right out and admit you are the previously banned bowsiter that went by the name Preacher. Your crossbow post above is the same post you made when you were calling yourself preacher. Why come back under a new name? I am surprised that either Pat or Phil haven't kicked you out of here under your new handle by now.
I thought the backtag issue had been resolved and we had moved onto what we would complain about next year after backtags are gone:)
one month to go... it cant come soon enough.
Gosh, just one month to go and even less for bear. Fog over the lake this morning. It kind of feels like we are into early September already.
I tend to agree with that. Even with many votes going against xbows and strong efforts by SCI and WBH to keep them at bay, the Legislature did what they wanted to anyway. In 2 years, there will be so much money invested in xbows where there is no way their "season" could be shortened.
The season will be regulated by the DNR under administrative rule. I doubt any legislator really wants to ever visit the crossbow thing again.
Although I agree with happy on the $$$ and the number in MI show 49.5% use crossbows in archery, 260,000 archery and crossbow number are out ranked by the 400,000+ gun hunters who don't archery or crossbow hunt. This is why separation was key.
