Moving gun season to the post rut.
Missouri
Does anyone think that there is a chance Missouri will move its gun season back a week in order to miss the rut? I know bow hunters would be exited!
I'd love to see that happen!!! That being said I don't think there's any chance they'll move it. There are just too many guys that only gun hunt in our state that would have a heart attack if it were moved back.
Moving the gun season is actually one of the options that the MDC discussed at their open house regarding deer management.
Along with allowing crossbows, eliminating the "antlerless" season, reducing the number of antlerless tags for gun season AND changing from a (3) buck limit to a (1) or (2) buck limit.
There was a GOOD turn out at all of the meetings, so we will see.
Great information Show-Me Greg , keep us posted!
I would support that 100%!
I just found a location on the MDOC website to comment on this issue......... Awesome opportunity to share our thoughts!
How did the meetings go? crossbows...OK limited doe harvest...OK So why would they not move firearms season out of the rut? I don't think its biology its banking
Yes I think it will happen sooner than later. It will be of little matter though because I believe cross guns for everyone will make there way into the archery season at the same time. So the woods will still be full of folks looking for instant gratification while putting forth the least amount of effort. Our muzzle loader season has already been raped and pillaged on the alter of opportunity. They are just trying to soften the blow when they do it to our archery season as well.
I hope not... and I doubt it will anyways. They would lose participation and dollars. I would consider selling my places and buying in another state were they to do that.
I think that few people who are against moving the gun season attended any of the meetings. I didn't go but can only guess. But you let MDC make a change like that and their voice will heard LOUD AND CLEAR.
I watched a similar thing happen many years ago in Texas when all the Lake Fork guides wanted to end live baiting to "protect" the lake. Our voice was heard and their leader left the meeting with his hat in his hand. Didn't work out to well for them. Not going to work out for bowhunters in this case either. The crossbow thing, that is the thing that will happen.
My moneys says they're going to move the gun season out, then give all of the gun hunters crossbows, so they can ruin everything for everyone.
Crossbow hunters won't "ruin" anything. Such a silly argument.
Sure tico, they'll be great.
Well, this is "debate free", but just look at the other states that have started it... no negative impact at all. I think that most people who want to crossbow hunt are already bowhunting. Most people who don't bow hunt just don't want to be in the woods that much. If they did they would have already gotten a bogus doctors note or started bowhunting. My only beef is all the folks shooting wheels and strings with 85% let off, lighted sight and mechanical releases looking down their nose at crossbows. It's just silly. Go back to a longbow and then complain.
Already back to the recurve. And you might get a different story from the people that live in those states than what the people pushing the money have to say. Your never going to convince me that something with an AR15 stock & a 12 power scope is a bow, or that it belongs in bow season. Keep them in gun season.
Better to have it a week before prime rut Instead of like Kansas where its 1st two weeks of december and where allow 1 buck and up to 4 doe tags.
Passed over 40 bucks this season....not one shooter over 130". North Missouri. All day sits during the cold snap the entire week prior to the gun season. I have several locations miles apart to hunt, so it was not just a single area with the issue.....something has to change! MDC calls the deer hunting "WORLD CLASS" compared to what Florida?
Sure some very good deer are killed and those are the ones that fly around the web etc... but by their own bio's admissions not many deer are making it past 3.5.
So if 115" deer are world class then I guess we are world class.
Overall numbers are really down, and they still are having the antlerless season...????
I had the same experience in NEMO this season elkmo. I truly believe EHD outbreaks two years in a row hurt the herd in my area. I was surprised at how many doe we had around this year and small bucks, but the mature bucks all but vanished! But then there are guys like my boss who has a farm an hour east of me and he had one of the best seasons he's had in years with pictures and sightings of multiple "world class" bucks. They have limited the number of does a hunter can take with a firearm to 1 in most of the state, I can actually shoot 2 but that's because I'm in the CWD containment zone.
After 2 weeks in the woods, here is what I observed. I hunted 2 weeks, 1 bow and 1 gun... and my dad and brother-in-law just hunted 6 days of gun season. We hunt my 95 acres and lease a 160 around the corner.
I did not kill a deer with the bow. Had opportunities at a SMALL doe and a button buck. Also a very small spike. Passed em all.
Opening morning of rifle I killed a 128 inch 10 point. That Sunday afternoon my brother-in-law killed a 153 inch 13 point. (main frame 10 but had mule deer forks on both G-2s and a sticker on the base) and my dad a 6 point. I killed a doe later in the week and that was it. My neighbors killed 2 8 points and a 10... and the biggest might score 105. So that made me sad but what are you going to do. And 2 does. They hunt a 115 acre place.
From what I observed, there were few does. My dad didn't see a mature doe the whole week. Only a small one. My brother in law only saw about 8 deer from a stand. But killed the biggest deer of his life.
All that to say... the numbers on the Adair/Macon county line are still way down. If they don't test another deer positive for CWD like last year I think it is time to pressure the MDC to return things to normal. We have killed too many in our area and it is time to give them a break for a while. If they let Heartland Wildlife repopulate their place with deer and elk, I don't think they are too worried about it living in the ground.
I will include my Bro's deer. Not a bow kill but still a nice buck.
My $0.02
Im also on the Adair/ Macon line out side of La Plata, and I had sits where I saw 30 doe in one sit, a few repeats but most weren't. I also had in the neighborhood of 15 different smaller bucks on camera. My population seems strong, especially since i only hunt 50 acres. My problem is the mature bucks vanished, but I'm optimistic for the future! I do hope they return the point restrictions for the area though. My neighbor to the east had a season much like yours to co, but he has no food source other than acorns and my food plots were where most of my action was. He's decided to plant a couple for next season, he didn't like that I saw a ton of deer while he was lucky to see a handful
Just for clarification -
Schmitty, the actual number of does you can shoot is "1 per county", in almost the entire state.
This needs to be changed, as killing the does is NOT the way to regrow our deer herd.
Hey Schmitty,
I had a really nice turnip plot, but on my best day I saw 9 deer. We aren't too far apart. I am down in the corner where Linn, Macon, Adair and Sullivan all come together. Like i can be in any one of em within a mile.
Part of my problem was that the deer were in the woods and not in the fields... which is weird because there were NO acorns around me. I was just lazy about it and didn't get in there and scout and move stands around.
All said, I am glad my group only killed 1 doe. I know a few around killed some but I don't think they were hurt too bad. I just hate all the 100 inch 8 points killed. Makes me sad.
Here is my buck by the way too. Not a bow kill either but just a nice deer.
I keep kicking around the idea of trying a new location in the state, but my bro is probably right and it going to be the same regardless where you end up. Until some season dates are moved or reduce it to one buck per person it will always be the same. So I am considering going to a recurve or atlatl to create a new challenge and those 2.5 yo bucks will again be in my sights. Gotta to do something, have not dropped the string in 5 years and it's due to a lack of effort or sightings.
On a side not going looking down the pipe, whith MO hunter recruitment being tops in the nation, the woods are going to continue to become more crowded and increased pressure will not help develop mature deer...how long until our woods become like PA or MI?
I heard much less shooting around me this year than I can remember. And bow season was a ghost town. I hunt private land but there was no one around. Was crowded for the first 3-4 days of gun season and then back to a ghost town. I had a very pleasant season except for the low number of deer sighted.
I wonder how many people shoot more than 1 buck in a season. 4 seasons out of the last 10 i have killed a buck with a bow and one with a gun. The book always says only 3% of hunters do this. I wonder how accurate that figure is? Would going to 1 buck would make a difference? I wish they would do like Texas and do antler point restriction plus a width limit. In most counties in Texas a buck has to be 13 inches. All 3 of the neighboring camp's buck would have been illegal then. hose would have been nice deer next year.
As I said Show-me-Greg my herd seems strong so I'm not concerned about the numbers currently, just want more quality at this point.
Good looking deer Tico! I shot a 146" 10 pt. with my bow. I'd post the pic but this I/phone 6 won't post them for some reason. We must be pretty close, I'm at the Macon/Adair line and can be in Linn in a couple minutes. I'm just off the Chariton river.
Well........... Not very HAPPY with the MDC.
Just got the notice of the 2015 deer seasons. NO CHANGES. Looks like the MDC was just hosting a bunch od "smoke & mirrors" with their public meetings and poll taking.
Didn't move gun season, kept antlerless season, and even left early youth season on Halloween weekend. They moved it the last time it hit halloween weekend...........
Firearms deer season dates are: • Urban portion – Oct. 9 through 12 • Early youth portion – Oct. 31 and Nov. 1 • November portion – Nov. 14 through 24 • Antlerless portion – Nov. 25 through Dec. 6 • Alternative-methods portion – Dec. 19 through 29 • Late youth portion – Jan. 2 and 3
Maybe when deer tag sales decline they will reconsider
Overall I think they do a very good job. Just glad to see no Crossbows!
SMG
I hear ya, it's starting to look the the commission is not listing to the bio's. I used to think we had a solid Dept. but appears $ and politics are running the show.
They got it backwards...we have trophy turkey hunting, whatever the hell that is and the deer are a free for all, we are to deer hunting what Colorado is for elk hunting.
I am going to start using a Atlatl, so I can shoot the 2.5 yr old eight points we are covered up with.
Just curious about the "smoke and Mirrors part"? Do you know that the majority wanted the season moved? I think it is more likely the majority wanted it to stay the same. Not on this page as it is a BOW sight... but out in the community.
Tico
I actually spoke to several MDC employees & biologists, and they were surprised with the results from the public comments.
They told me that the biologist feel that the rifle season needs to move and they need to not have an antlerless season, to help our deer herd recover.
I was told that since the public "agreed", the changes would happen, starting in 2015.
I would like confirmation as to why it did not change. I am betting big $$$$ had a lot to do with leaving seasons alone.
I hear about surveys being done etc...and they just provide a sample of the target audience. Why can't the MDC have a few questions asked at the time a deer tag is bought and enter it in the system. Then we will have 100% response rate and no gray area. It is being done when a migratory bird stamp is bought, about 10-15 questions are asked/answered in a few minutes and entered in the system. Seems a lot cheaper than mailing surveys/town halls or whatever and the results will represent 100% what hunters want to see happen.
Thanks for the info show-me. I still hope they don't move it ever but I am sure the you are right and it has a lot to do with money. Good idea about questions at the point of purchase. Would be very easy on online purchases too. At least they cut back on the doe tags a little. My group only killed one doe this year. My neighbors killed 2 I think.
I was read somewhere that no changes would be seen until 2016. I sure hope that there is still a chance that changes will be seen. Moving rifle season back one week is a start. It would still give rifle hunters a part of the rut. I'd like to see it moved back to the first of December. Bow hunting after rifle season has been a joke for the last few years. Decimated population and with all the rifle seasons in November, what few deer are still around are spooky as all get out.
No question the firearms season placement is out dated and needs to be moved and probably shortened as well, but definitely MOVED! The days of growing the herd are long past and so should the peak rut firearms placement. Does are fair game and there is no need to give Missouri firearms hunters the peak vulnerability of 11 straight days. Deer are prevalent and hunters should try hunting a little. Never heard anyone say, man I wish I shot a smaller buck!!!!! Look at our neighbor to the North, West & East, they all have later firearms seasons and FAR superior age class when it comes to bucks! For the MDC or anyone to say that MO has a "World Class deer herd" is funny at best. Sure a couple world class deer are killed in Missouri and we even have the Missouri Monarch, but look at the record books and see how the falloff in score of MO deer are compared to our three dominant neighbor's!!!
Lonnie Hanson wanted the season moved back and the COMMISSSION didn't listen! The same brilliant COMMISSION that moved the youth season 4 year ago so it would NO LONGER conflict with Halloween.....pure genius, when does youth season fall this year....bingo, HALLOWEEN!!!!
I think our MDC Biologists know what needs to be done, but the COMMISSION, there in lies the problem.
I'm from Northeastern Oklahoma and I'll chime in for your neighbors perspective on the issue, I've hunted deer extensively in Missouri The last few years and have been appalled at how poorly your deer herd is managed. You guys really have untapped potential!
I went hunting on public land on Christmas Day in south eastern MO and got a young doe... What I didn't know is that it was handgun season! I'm just glad I was wearing blaze Orange. What the heck! Who has a handgun season? Anyway, don't think for a minute the crossbows won't make a difference! It won't be the first year that the difference will be seen but it will make a difference. For instance, five years ago I had my parents farm in Oklahoma to myself during bow season. Now, everyone who previously rifle hunted it now hunt it with a crossbow. That's 8 to 10 extra hunters a year during bow season on the farm and all of our neighbors do the same now. They do kill some nice bucks but mostly I kss having the woods less cluttered...there is something to be said for that. I also hunt public land and have seen an influx there as well.
Realistically, I believe that the archery season in Oklahoma could probably have been extended a good 2 weeks if crossbows were not legalized...think about that for a minute.
Crossbows will be allowed regardless...the tide is too strong ....however the best thing that Missouri bow hunters can do for themselves is compromise by having the crossbow have similar season dates but be licensed and tracking seperately for statistical clearity. It's only reasonable.
On moving the rifle season back, it could be noted that the Missouri deer herd could probably withstand a longer rifle season, say 16 days? If the season were moved back one to two weeks into late November/early December. The impact two bucks would be greatly lessened and got hunters might be happy to have a few extra days.
Oh my gosh, sorry for the typos...posting from a phone
Handgun season? News to me.
Me too. When did that happen?
He must have been talking about Alternative Methods Season. Also known as Atlatl season.
When you have a later rifle season, it limits the buck harvest helping the buck/doe ratio and it helps the age structure. Kansas and eastern Mo are no different as it pertains to habitat. They are miles apart in intelligent management.
Many talk about how poorly managed the deer are...and why we are surrounded by states with large "Trophy" deer and unlocked potential to bring more deer tourism dollars to the state's economy. We will never have the deer across the state that those other three states do, as there is NOrow crop farming in the southern part of the state. No corn, no soybean fields to raise deer on, and they will ALWAYS be smaller than farming state deer. Never heard this mentioned so thought I would mention it. A 130" buck her in SWMO is a trophy to us, raised on grasses and mast.
