Poor to bad shots making it on TV
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
Is anyone else noticing the quartering too and frontal shots on deer on TV with archery gear?. I can't remember that being in my entry level book of bow hunting ethics.. but it sure seems that ethical shot attempts have been thrown out the window these days on TV... sorta makes me sick and sorta tells folks these types of shots are the norm.. why are these hunts being used ? And what kind of hunters are we watching on TV these days..??
Is it my imagination? Or are there more unethical shots making the big screen?
I won't mention names but a certain big name ILL hunter took a bad angle shot at a non-typical. The program made it look like a normal 1hlur recovery.
A cameraman told me on a later hunt that it took 3 days and 12 people to find the Deer.
Yes, but they need to produce to get contracts. Its all about $ and making a living not hunting as we see it.
The sooner we as hunters acknowledge this hopefully the faster this form of marketing will die. But are hunters smarter then those that watch reality shows, WWF? Maybe true hunters are, but sadly there are more fake hunters then real ones. Side effect of hunter recruitment the DNR and manufactures promote, think they care about anything but funding???? They will take money from anyone willing to sling an arrow or shot a gun.
Its your imagination. I think there are more ethical hunters now than ever before. Howard Hill, Fred bear, ect. ect. would just fling arrows at anything they saw, 100 yard running shots with recurves and longbows, they were the Icons.
Only Icons to those that wish them to be. I sadly have no icons, heck even my dad has flaws I recognize.
The question was bad shots on TV. And this is increasing and due only for name recognition to make $.
I don't know if there are anymore frontal shots being taken now it's just that there are so many shows now that we see it more often than we did in the past.
The other thing that gets me is penetration on TV. There are so many shots that look perfect that only get half the arrow penetrating. I've shot about 30 deer with my bow and the only ones that weren't complete pass throughs were spine shots. I don't know if it's the large mechanicals or what but the TV guys sure don't seem to get much penetration.
Ruger,
Just give him a second.....to find his deer.... He had no shot but said he had to shoot cause the buck was so big.... SAD and disgusting!!!
I agree with the OP. I was showing my son just yesterday some poor angle shots being taken on TV. They never do discuss the recovery time and often seem to hide the entry/exit wounds. I liked it when D&DH would use the Shot Analyzer and discuss the shot.
Don't watch many archery shows anymore. It is not about the hunt or the animal. It is all about the almighty horn and the money. No thanks, I can do without and not waste my time.
Trapper, I hear you about the horn porn. Funny thing is the parts of the show I enjoy the most is when they're "culling" does. It seems much more like hunting than when they're shooting some huge buck.
Trapper and Zinger....right on. Too much emphasis on the antlers....not enough on the "hunt". I believe, as well as most of you, an old doe is as tough if not tougher than a mature buck.
Yeah those terrible frontal shots never work, and when people do take them it's ONLY because of antlers. Let me also add that expandables never work.
I go round and round on bowsite with an elk hunter from Wis that supports frontal shots 100%. Very poor. If you go to the elk forum you can see it.
Even the 'pros' make mistakes. We've all been on those long blood trails. If I could hunt everyday and make money I would be all for it!
>>>--arrow1-->'s Link
I've seen those disgusting shots too. One thing I might add is that some times what looks like a bad angle isn't really as bad as it seems because of the cameraman being in a different spot than the shooter.
I have all the outdoor channels and never watch anymore a)Too many high fence hunts b)too much BS endorsing crap products like Ozonics, expandables, ect.c)The "rough" score inflation is laughable. No wonder guys think that 110 is a 135. Imo, a frontal shot or neck shot should never be taken unless the BH is a 210 grain Nosler out of my .338. The lack of penetration with expandables is obvious.Sadly, expandables are for those who can not or will not tune a bow. I can't remember my last FB non complete pass thru. The 90's maybe. The tv rockstars need a kill vs. tag soup. That's why those last day 2.5 yo sporty 110 inch "cull" bucks take a dirt nap at the end of the show.
Stan Potts is quite a trip. I've seen him make some remarable shots on video - he is actually a very good shot in my opinion. Is however - is a "bit" over the top and showman for sure. I remember Potts from very long ago when he first appeared on a TV show culling does on a property he claimed was over run with them. That was a long time ago - who would have thunk?
" I've seen him make some remarable shots on video" We all are with enough hunts, and plenty of time on the edit desk cutting footage of bad misses, horrible hits, no recoveries, ect. All this footage gets "sanitized" to fuel the myth/legend of all these rock stars. Isn't much different then any other staged "reality" show.
Blood,
I have heard that he is pretty good guy too. I just can't stand to watch all the 'over the top' he brings. Who knows though, he might say the same about me if I was the TV rock star product whore.
November, The frontal shot is very deadly if on a relaxed deer AND you have practiced it and have the confidence. I see plenty of penetration issues with FB's on the hunting shows also. But I also see guys shooting low draw/arrow weight, and untuned bows. Just because someone shoots exp's doesn't mean their set ups aren't tuned. I shoot various fixed blade and expandables out of my bows, to the same poi. In fact last night I was shooting old style Snuffers with my FT's at 60 yards.
The whole lack of penetration thing with mech's is also a farce. IF, one shoots the proper set up. My light set up is 415 grains with 18% FOC and punches through every deer I shoot, even with large cut mechanicals. My heavy set up is 545 grains and sticks farther in the ground on passthroughs. The doe in the above pic was shot with what I consider a super light set up, 379 grains out of a 63lb bow. That pushed that 2" mech all the way through that deer, and stuck out the ham 6". I wasn't happy with that penetration, that's the last time I shot an arrow that light.
I cannot stand Stan Potts and have to mute the TV on shows he's on. His antics are purely for show and way over the top.
I like Stan, but I've met him in person a few times, he's a great guy. Most all of the TV personalities are a little over the top. I watch most hunting shows as purely entertainment.
How many mechanicals change direction on bone contact or an angle(which always is the case) and get horrible penetration? Here's a buck that was taken out 2 weeks after the same hunter boogered 2 with mechanicals.I had to burn my tag on this one as he was not going to make it. 16 inch slice from the mechanical. The pink stuff was a hellrazor pass thru@34 yards. My Son dumped the other one, 142 net. I won't allow mechanicals on my place anymore.
From the look of the shot angle I think the results would have been the same with a fixed head. There is no way of knowing for sure weather the arrow changed direction or just skimmed the skin. Unless there was something else wrong with the deer I bet he would have survived just fine with a skin cut like that.
I'm no fan of mechanicals but I have shot some deer with them when the Rocket heads came out about 20 years ago. I shot 4 blade 2" Rockets and still got pass throughs on all the deer I shot with them. And these were all with what is considered very light arrows <400gr. I don't know if it's an issue with mechanicals. light poundage or what but it sure does seem like a lot of shots on TV are not pass throughs.
" I bet he would have survived just fine with a skin cut like that." I had 2 larger bucks under me for an hour on a hot doe. This guy took 45 minutes to gimp over 80 yards. He never would have seen xmas. Here's the other 142 buck, same hunter, basic 1/4 away shot. He said the arrow "bounced off" the buck! He was right.My Sons hellrazor broke the shoulder and passed thru a 207lb. dressed buck. Play with mechanicals long enough and they will bite you in the butt. Btw, I have never had a fb slice or change direction on bone contact let alone hide and I am north of 100 bow kills.
Here's how my 8th day of the 12' gun season ended. My neighbore emptied his pump 30-06 on a "monster" buck running across a plowed cornfield and "nicked" him 3 days prior. I never pull the trigger, bow or gun unless I am 99% sure it's a dirt nap. I burned my tag cleaning up his mess as well. 2.5yo 105 inch monster. Shattered leg and he never would have made it either. So in 2012 I burned $320 in tags on 2 mortally wounded bucks and both needed 2 more years of growth.
November, it sounds like to me you are cleaning up after a poor hunter, can't blame that on the head. I don't really care what anyone shoots. It just irks me when people make untrue statements about certain equipment and why people use it. I actually was never a mech shooter, but wanted to see what a few of my buds were making all the fuss over. I tried some Spitfires and really liked them. Then tried Rage and loved the big holes and blood trails. Now I shoot Mechcs about 50% of the time, no rhyme or reason as there are always FB's in the quiver as well.
The cable rock stars all are pimpin Mechanicals and I see consistently horrible penetration. These are grown men with tuned, fast bows. Not Tiffany setups. I have to go with my own experience on my place. Enough.That's why Cabelas sells 169 broadheads. to each his own. No mechanicals, round ball muskets or .222/.223 allowed.
I remember the old WASP heads that had a tendency to leave their blades in the first bone or solid meat the come in contact with. There are good heads and bad heads be they fixed or mechanical. I have a hard time switching from a good old Muzzy 3 blade though.
"Not Tiffany setups"
I wouldn't mind being setup with Tiffany for a hunt :). She and her beau will be at Deer Fest 2014. Perfect photo op for my 14yo son!
I'll be at Deer Fest also and I'm praying that our booth isn't next to Lee & Tiffany! Nothing like a million perverts trying to get close to a bleached blonde!
Don't watch the outdoor thing much anymore...saw a guy that made his "rep" in fishing take a bad-angle shot, supposedly in Buffalo County. He spoke for a while that while he entitled by law to go and get his animal he chose not to because the landowner did not want him to. Should stick to fishing. Besides, going to the crossthing forums and giving them the comments that we receive here (selfish etc.) is more fun.
Just was watching another show and what do ya know?? Another nice buck.. 208 inches in fact wacked with a mechanical quartering too the hunter .. entered good.. but must have just missed the opposite hind quarter..
It just pisses me off that these networks are airing crap like that... I mean you can't get it out of your head once you watched it.. I have hunted deer with a bow for a long.... long time.. taken deer all over the midwest.... and have never released a arrow at a deer that was quartering too me... it goes against everything bow hunting is about...
Don't these people realize there are young bowhunters watching this stuff... they are teaching them to take BS shots...
Man... I see one of these and my fists clinch
I will shoot mechanical broadheads to the day I die. I have killed more than 20 deer with mech broadheads over the years and a number of black bear!
I started shooting Muzzy - loved em and then had problems with them after I bought my Switchback - never looked back!
I have shot NAP spitfires for years and shoot Rage as well. Awesome and never had a problem. I have a friend shooting them and I thought he would never do that in a million years. Hard to argue with success.
The funny thing here and I have said it a MILLION times - SHOT PLACEMENT! There are many good heads both fixed and mech - you choose!
I can kill a deer with a field point and so can many of you! A well placed arrow kills a deer/bear period!
There was a day when many folks posted how terrible the mechanicals were. Guides would ban them from camps - OMG!
Well the proof is in the puddin' and I for one am very happy with both NAP and Rage!
People like to blame their equipment when truth be told the blame lies square with the shooter!
Here's a buck I shot on opening day back in 2004. As you can see he was quatering away when I shot and the mechinical broadhead NAP Spitfire did it's job. Massive blood loss and a short track. Typical of the NAP and Rage heads.
Dont sell mechinicals short!
Mechanicals wont fail until they do.
bt- sounds like you need to tune that switch back if you hav problems shooting muzzys out of it. let me know if you need some help;-)
I see a lot of non pass through shots on tv from fixed blades also. Some of it has to do with shot selection, some of it with light weight set ups. But there are a surprising number of Tv guys that are shooting poorly tuned set ups. The nice thing about most of them using lighted nocks, is you can see the terrible arrow flight on the screen. If you are ant-mechanical, you better not shoot a compound bow, with a drop away rest, with a release...
To each their own. I shoot both and have spent way more money than I should testing different heads.
I like slicktricks and have tested about everyone they have. The wider the blade the more drift I got with the wind. I shoot the standards and have very little drift with them.
I have also played with the rage 2 blades a lot. I shot them closed, 1 blade open, 2 blades open and never saw any difference in flight or POI. Reason I am posting this is because I read a lot of "blades popped open" or "opened in flight" so I got a bad hit or poor flight. Hog wash....tune your set up.
I have also burned up a lot of arrows playing with shots. Don't know what you can do unless you see if you can do it. LOL
Lama, I'm not anti-mechanical but after reading your post one must ask if the Rage shoots the same open or closed why do they close at all? Why not just shoot them open so there's no chance of them not opening?
When I first started hunting I thought the bigger the head the better but after shooting deer with different heads I've come to the conclusion that a deer dies just as quickly when shot through the lungs with a small head as with a big head..
" Lama, I'm not anti-mechanical but after reading your post one must ask if the Rage shoots the same open or closed why do they close at all? Why not just shoot them open so there's no chance of them not opening? "
Zinger,
If you set up is not tuned you would not be able to shoot any fixed blade or opened BH. This is where mechanical heads hide a bad set up, just field points. That is why I posted "hog wash tune your set up".
"Lama, I'm not anti-mechanical but after reading your post one must ask if the Rage shoots the same open or closed why do they close at all? Why not just shoot them open so there's no chance of them not opening? "
That there is a GREAT question! Why take the risk, one which does not exist with a fixed BH? Just shoot them all open if it does not matter.
Kevin from Wisconsin - Your the FIRST one I'll call to tune my bow - When it needs tuning.
How dead is dead? Ya see that buck from 2004 - he aint getting anymore dead.
If I can shoot a mechanical broadhead and kill deer and bear, why should I tune my bow - sounds to me it's tuned already. If it wasn't.....the freezer would be empty - it's not!
Again - SHOT PLACEMENT gang - hit em' where it counts and you'll never have a problem. That goes for ALL broadheads.
Lama - a killing machine is more important to me that a "tuned" bow - I look at what I shoot as "tuned" as it kills both deer and bear as quickly and as easily as any other "set-up!"
I'm into killing stuff for sport and table fare. And if by your definition my bow isnt tuned because I shoot mechinicals - welll OK, it's not tuned. The bottom line is I'm happy and confident with my equipment and the freezer is full and the pictures are in the scapebook. Canot ask for much more than that!
Shoot what ya want, but please dont slam mechanicals because I am proof they work and they have for a very long time for me!
People love excuses - we see it here all the time! Take ethical shots, hit the vitals and retrieve you deer. Simple as that!
NAP and RAGE leave gaping holes and massive blood trails - and your right NOT every shot is a pass through.
Which broadhead manufacture guarantees a pass through with every shot? I'd like to know? They dont as there isn't a broadhead made that passes through a deer or bear everytime.
@ Bloodtrail
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Could not agree more. I've been buying a new broadhead for years. In my opinion, fixed or mechanical, they all work.....as long as you put them where you're supposed to. Coming from a guy who hit a deer in a less than stellar spot last season (liver). I have an excuse as to why my shot was off (string hitting my strap on my sleeve), but most importantly, not because I chose a bad shot, but instead I missed....and I did recover the deer.
In my opinion, tuning a brodhead being a fixed or mechanical, is as easy as a target tip. There's nothing super special about tuning a fixed versus a mechanical that makes one hunter better than another.
If people would simply have patience when they hunt, whether it be angle or distance, would essentially mean more to cleaner kills than anything else. I shoot at targets just fine to forty plus, and still shoot deer inside of 20 just because those shots offer less risk of poor shot placement. I shoot only quartering away or broadside deer, and would never shoot a walking deer. Just being patient is all. Do deer walk away? Most certainly! :-)
@ Bloodtrail
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Could not agree more. I've been buying a new broadhead for years. In my opinion, fixed or mechanical, they all work.....as long as you put them where you're supposed to. Coming from a guy who hit a deer in a less than stellar spot last season (liver). I have an excuse as to why my shot was off (string hitting my strap on my sleeve), but most importantly, not because I chose a bad shot, but instead I missed....and I did recover the deer.
In my opinion, tuning a brodhead being a fixed or mechanical, is as easy as a target tip. There's nothing super special about tuning a fixed versus a mechanical that makes one hunter better than another.
If people would simply have patience when they hunt, whether it be angle or distance, would essentially mean more to cleaner kills than anything else. I shoot at targets just fine to forty plus, and still shoot deer inside of 20 just because those shots offer less risk of poor shot placement. I shoot only quartering away or broadside deer, and would never shoot a walking deer. Just being patient is all. Do deer walk away? Most certainly! :-)
Gaping holes, dirt naps, massive blood, whacked em, dumped the other one... you guys should start your own show.
November do you hog hunt out in California?
Pasq, what is missing is the ever famous "I SMOKED 'em". Man I hate that one. Times sure have changed.
Oh yea... forgot that gem of a quote.
BT do you use them because of the ease of blood trailing?
My friend brought a guy from Illinois (of all places) to hunt with us. I knew this guy was going to be different in the way he spoke. Well he had the rages on his shafts. He ends up shooting a doe and call us over. It was a murder scene with blood sprayed everywhere. My first interaction with those heads. Well I said where is she? He points in a direction for me to go. There was no missing where I was supposed to go by the amount of blood. I find this does still alive and laying in a bedded down position but in a world of hurt. His "story" was she turned just as he shot. He admitted later to his buddy that he was shooting at her eye to see what damage the rage would do.
That blade travelled down the side of her face and into the neck area with fletching sticking out by her ear. It cut all the way down and to me was absolutely disturbing to look at. I quickly took my recurve and shot a cedar into the heart to end it.
So I have a bad taste in my mouth for them as did that doe. Never hunted with the guy again.
Lol.. I saw a guy from Whitetail properties defending gut shots with a mechanical. .. The guy who I won't name who BTW is much younger then me..maybe 45 or so boasted he has killed over 400 whitetails with a bow and has tracked over 1000 wounded deer...LOL..
I am guessing from 10 to age 25 he rarely hunted out of state.. that means in those 15 years he prolly killed less then 50 deer...that would mean from 25 to 45? He killed 350 deer with a bow?? Wow.. that's over 17 avg. Per year... I had no idea the Messiah of bow hunting was on TV...
I say these networks better start screening the footage a little better.
Pasq -
I believe the would channels created by the NAP or Rage are much superior and blood letting is in turn just super. Even in cases of no pass through, the size of the wound is increased so much larger,
I shot a doe last late season and with the temp at 4 degrees I did have a great blood trail to start and then less and less as the deer moved through the powdery snow. When I found her, the wound had frozn into a big clump of frozen hair/flesh and snow. Snow was deep, powder.
That shot was a pass through were the arrow stayed with the deer and was pull through as the deer ran.
It was not a good blood trail at all, but with the conditions I figured it would have been a typical reaction given any broadhead.
Yes, blood trails are usually pretty massive.
"Lama - a killing machine is more important to me that a "tuned" bow - I look at what I shoot as "tuned" as it kills both deer and bear as quickly and as easily as any other "set-up!""
Is comprehension lacking on this board? This is what I posted.
"Reason I am posting this is because I read a lot of "blades popped open" or "opened in flight" so I got a bad hit or poor flight. Hog wash....tune your set up."
happygolucky's Link
AW, see the link to the thread on the BGF for the show you mentioned. It is sad that the guy advocates liver/gut shots just to cover up his poor quartering to shot.
So Pasq, if the dumb ass had taken the same shot with a fixed blade that would have been better. It makes no sense to dislike the head, just because there was an idiot using it.
My point was that I guess I wouldn't have made a good medic during a war. That buck picture tells a story about those heads without any words. Some like to see or read those stories and some don't. That doe sprayed blood four feet up on trees while leaping and was easy tracking.
I actually took my boots and wool off to avoid getting blood all over them dragging it out. They surely do damage and you that use wont have a problem tracking.
I have gotten the sleep napping down as I get older and now knapping rocks for points. Anybody have any sinew???
Pasq, I assume flint knapping? That is pretty neat, it's a skill that eludes me.
More often than not. It has reached a point of being ridiculous. The more extreme the idiots are on the shows with their monotonous music, extreme phrases, and juvenile behavior the worst the kill scenes are.
Even worse are the guys who call themselves 10 or better but shoot 8 pointers..........
Firsty, Haha! And a decent 8 at that. Everyone has goals, I think.
Its very clear that most of those program hunters fail math in school. Calling 130 inch bucks a " 150 class " . :-)
All the shows do is invite scrutiny! The more scrutiny, the more political the environment, the better chance our form of recreation has of being over regulated. I do not recall Curt Gowdy ever broadcasting a graphic kill scene. It was not necessary then and it is not now! We should be expecting more restraint then that. Graphically showing an impact shot does not do anything to help our cause with the general public. Like it or not, we still need at least their acceptance. If they ever completely turn on us, it will be too late. I don't need a slow motion impact shot to understand or prove what just happened. It does not serve the greater cause, the survival of our sport.
I don't mind so much the poor or bad shots making it onto television as truth be told, these do happen sometimes in the heat of the moment... HOWEVER, I just cannot stand the fact that these guys (and gals) are slapping hands, chest bumping, and telling the camera how good product x was after they find the deer and how product x "ate him up." Many times it is nearly 12 hours later and you know that the meat has gone bad and is worthless. It's an odd world we have created and live in at times.
Good point(s) Duke -
I really enjoy the boys that decide to let the deer lay overnight - because it's cool out!
Who are they kidding?
I dont care how "cool out" it is, if you dont get that deer gutted in a resonable amount of time - it's garbage. It stinks!
Truth be told the lat thing they want to do is "bump" the deer and possibly lose that huge rack of antlers! More often than not - that's the reason - at least in a pea brain!
And not just the TV stuff. I got a magazine (Archery???) and one of the articles on putting stands in "corners" had diagrams. Almost all of the deer shown were a severe quartering to angle. Really?? Some guys will actually believe the stuff they write.
In bowhunting.. anyone..prolly everyone at some point will have a marginal hit..that's the reason for only taking broadside and quartering away shots..I thought anyway..it is to protect from more marginal hits!! The TV clowns need some time in the wood shed...Wet behind the ears.. fresh out of school with a video/marketing degree living the dream getting paid to put kills on camera at any cost...more times than not endorsing a outfitter to hunt the deer for them..I am to the point I don't even look at products some of these bozos endorse..I figure if the company wants to advertise with bozos..how good can that product really be??