Anyone else loseing dogs
Wisconsin
This week I noticed alot of dogs being lost to wolves. 3 have been killed by Stevens lake, now another one behind the cabin, on the MI side of the Brule, 2 in Lost Lake, and last nite I was out looking for one, missing since Sunday (does not look good), by Le Roy Creek....
I have not recorded that much loss, in such a small area in awhile. This kill area, I could triangulate on the map, NE Wis / MI Iron Co..... Forest Co to Florence Co and up into Iron Co, everything north of 70, or along the Pine River......
Le Roy Creek area is pretty remote. Must be more wolves in the area, having litters, than I thought. Anyone else run in this area, and noticed the amount of dog losses???? s
That is a complete shame as is the 2014 wolf quota being cut like it was. The quota needed to be doubled, not reduced.
The tag lets you register 1 wolf. But it doesn't say how many you can sort through till you get the perfect 1 to tag. Sarcasm!
why put your dogs in danger, if there's wolves in the area don't run your dogs. what's more important, your dogs safety or your need to put a bear in a tree for just training.
I agree with you, my point is, I have never seen this much activity in such a large area..... I bait for the guy, that is running the dogs.... Believe me, lots of areas are being crossed off, but got some good bears on some baits, so going to let some sitters on them.......
Why run your dogs, where there are wolves....... Please tell me, where there are no wolves, it seems that bad this year........
just an observation
I've seen less wolf sign this year then in the 5 years I've owned my land in price co, but their still present and still a huge problem. 2 weeks ago I warned some houndsmen that I've heard wolves in the area but they still ran their dogs. last week they drove up and down the road looking for a lost dog and I never heard if they found it or not. some packs are less tolerant of dogs and those areas should be avoided. i'm a dog lover and would never put my dog in danger.
Lots of wolves in the woods + lots of hounds in the woods = less hounds in the woods.
That's the price you pay to play the game. Wolves should be managed not wiped out. Some of these guys ignore the hot zones anyway and like what was already said to train hounds. Im quite sure most of this is for the houndsman's fun and games and not about training. Most dogs I have saw "training" were already quite good at what they do. I did this for years before I lost my taste for it Ive been in on the inside of what happens in those swamps.
sportsman500 - what is your opinion on how many wolves should be trapped or hunted?
I agree with elk they should be managed not wiped out. it's not are place to decide what animals we want in the woods. I know they kill lots of fawns but they also kill the weak and the old which is the best thing for the herd. giving the choice a wolf will kill the weakest animal it can, we as hunters are after the biggest animal in its prime or just starting to decline. if you had 2 deer in front of you, 1 being a buck in its prime or the other being a sick older deer which 1 would you take, whats better for the herd or what looks better on the wall. I think the number of tags should be twice the number their giving out now and it looks like I didn't get a tag again this year.
Managed would = 300 wolves according to the original plan. The current state of affairs is nowhere even close to that. That's what makes the drop in quota sickening. As I said, it should have been doubled and not reduced. No good excuse for the drop in quota exists.
I agree with Sportsman500 and Elk. Wolves should be allowed on the landscape, and they are, but they need to be managed to the population goal. The goal is 350 but the DNR does not seem to be sincere in respecting that goal. The Fed's goal for Wisconsin and the U.P. combined is 100, so there is no danger of having wolves relisted. I don't know why the DNR is being so cautious. The DNR reduced the harvest quota even though we are still above goal. Heck, we got to where we are now from a population of zero! Even if the population were to get down to 250, that could be rebuilt to 350 in no time without a hunting season.
It would be nice to see a coalition of hunter groups filing a suit against the DNR for not managing wolves to goal. Kind of the same thing that the animal rights groups do.
sportsman500, you must not live or hunt in wolf country. They do not only kill the young/old, weak/sick. They kill healthy mature animals, they also kill just to kill, not just for food.
Truth be told, rarely do wolves "kill just to kill". Humans, on the other hand, "kill just to kill" all the time. We even kill our own kind just for the fun of it, we video tape it sometimes too.
Certainly, wolves need to be controlled. Every time you or your dogs enter the woods there is a certain amount of risk. Don't like the risk, don't go, move to the city, don't turn your dogs loose.
Back to the topic...could it be hungry wolves? Less deer due to the tough winter? I don't know, just taking a guess. BC
I don't live in wolf country but I own land and hunt in wolf country..price co..we as hunters kill just for the thrill of it, we don't need to kill for the food, although we should eat what we kill. if we don't harvest an animal we can always go to the store and buy food, wolves cant. whats the difference between you or I killing a deer for the thrill of it or a wolf doing the same, their doing what comes natural to them. if your dog catches and kills a rabbit is it a cold blooded killer or just doing what predators have been doing for thousands of years, their programed to kill. I don't want you to think I'm against wolf hunting they need to be controlled, I just cant hate an animal for doing what they were born to do.
There are too many wolves in jackson county ,wi and parts of Juneau county and monroe county. Too many coyotes also . They need to be killed
The problem is some packs get too big to fast. Ive witnessed wolves eating week old road kill. IMO some packs flurish in prime areas and double/triple in size in a matter of a few years. They eat everything but rather than die because of the lack of prey there IQ gets them in trouble with humans and other wolf packs.
Most prey animals seem to rise and fall with there food sources, wolves (because of there roaming nature) seem to be the exception to this rule.
Well I guess I will end this thread......... The intent was just to see if anyone else was losing dogs this year, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I do not run the dogs, just bait for the guys during the week........
This spring the county DNR biologist thought there were no more than 12 wolves in the entire county.....
Our observations, are being given to him, since they are intrested in what we are seeing....
The guys do not purposely run the dogs in "hot zones" in fact this area has not seen much activity in the past seasons. Le Roy Creek is now a new "hot zone", and they are going to stay out of there.....
I was told last night that the DNR has now posted along 2159 and the Newald Rd, this is down in Fence area of Florence Co, that they are actively trapping wolves, and if your dog is caught, to call the posted number, if you need it released, this is because of the influx in wolves.......
What I got on this thread, was a lecture, that we are running the dog, so if you do not like the wolves, move to the city, that wolves should be managed, but there is a place for them, and its too bad for you, and etc etc,,,,,,,,
That we are thrill killers etc etc.........
Geesh I was hopeing for maybe some good feedback, thought this was a hunting site.......
Also I was told by personnel from our gov't agency in the truck, very nice person, involved in the area, because of the wolves, that the new goal is 800,,,,
You see some of us are in the woods in a daily basis, so we see a little more........
As far as the bears, well I can not see how anyone can not harvest one in this area, if you put in the time, because there are quite a few, and I mean quite a few.......
So I will end the thread,,,,,, I really did not learn about any other areas having problems, that were new areas......
One more thing, I never kill an animal for the thrill of it. I enjoy hunting and waste nothing......
Good posts Razor, 500, B crazy!
We all forget that not that long ago...we did nt have a wolf season! NONE! Many here said we would never see it!
We now have it, embrace it and give it a chance to work!
Never understood why guys who say they love their dogs would throw out on a bear in wolf country just to practice....they are just practicing..I compare it more to molestation of the bear as you chase a lot of the same bear every day just for fun/practice.....how good of hunters can these guys be if they need 2 months of practice???
Never understood why guys who say they love their dogs would throw out on a bear in wolf country just to practice....they are just practicing..I compare it more to molestation of the bear as you chase a lot of the same bear every day just for fun/practice.....how good of hunters can these guys be if they need 2 months of practice???
Never understood why guys who say they love their dogs would throw out on a bear in wolf country just to practice....they are just practicing..I compare it more to molestation of the bear as you chase a lot of the same bear every day just for fun/practice.....how good of hunters can these guys be if they need 2 months of practice???
Its not how good the hunters can be its how good there hounds can get, hounds need to train to get in shape and learn the game they will be chasing etc. The last year I ran with hound hunters was back in 1981, I understand the excitement and concept. I might not always agree with some practices in the hunting world but I support them as hunters. Take away bear hounds what would be next? coon hunting, pheasant hunting with dogs. Just walking your dog in wolf country or grouse hunting you are taking a risk of having your dog killed, it has happened.
I have no sympathy for dog hunters of any sort that lose dogs. With that said, dog owners and dogs have NO business on private property. Don't give me the story that you can't control the dogs and they are a tool when people in cities have to pick up dog crap have them on a leash, etc. Are there to many wolves yes can we sustain 300 in the state yes. No need to wipe them out. Have wolves in our back yard, so yes we have them.
Does anyone agree with the reduction in the quota? Does anyone think the population is close to 300?
No, and no! 3000 maybe. A few hundred wolves don't create that much havoc in 1/3rd of the state and need to expand its territories for growing numbers of packs and food becomes scarce in existing territory.
With the reduction in the quota the SSS crowd will be at it again. I live north of 64 and here talk of it around and just spent week farther up north and herd talk there also. If the DNR doesn't want to help quell the problem the people impacted will.
I don't think the SSS crowd will ever stop. They are the reason the wolf population never hit 5000. Watch how quickly the hunt ends this year with the quota so reduced. It sure ended fast last year considering the quota was 1/4 of the estimated population. What a crock.
You guys keep confusing a wolf "count" with population estimates. You have never been told a population estimate yet from our DNR.
DT, that's not from the DNR, that's from a Milwaukee reporter. Try again.
And where do you think he got the info from?
Yes, I have noticed an increase in the kills, and hurt dogs. Have also noticed a huge decrease in what is reported, or at least confirmed kills. A kill has to be confirmed first. Even if you watch it happen. It don't count unless a so called expert confirms it. In some cases lack of reporting is also because some folks feel it will be easier to take matters in their own hands. If the DNR know nothing about it. Most of the time this is nothing but talk anyway.
It would be real nice to know how many reported kills there are compared to what is confirmed.
The statement that wolves don't thrill kill is dead wrong. There is much evidence to the contrary. saveourelk.com would be a good place to start to see much of this. But they only eat 18 deer a year then switch to small game and greenery right.
There is no safe place for any domestic animal in wolf country. Dogs are killed right on the chain in your backyard in many cases. How is that person at fault then? Just for owning a dog in wolf country you are to blame??
I really don't want to touch the dog statements. Think about this though. Why do any athletes or sports teams. Start to train prior to the season?? By the same token. Why do they need to do this. Just go hit the fields and play the game. Just through participation in the game itself. You will be in top physical condition to perform. Somebody needs to change the rules for all our kids. As it is obvious by this statement. That the WIAA is hurting them by requiring a minimum number of practice days prior to any participation. No need for the right!!!
I know plenty of coon and rabbit hunters, none of them need to train for months on end and their dogs chase the animal great right from the start of the season. I'm sure that there is some training going on with the bear hounds but it's a lot more for the fun of chasing the bears. I can understand that it's fun to do but don't tell me that without months of harrassing the bears your dogs couldn't do it once the season comes around.
Zinger + 1 I wonder how many cubs get caught by hounds during the practice season ???
buckmaster, no cubs get caught, just ask any hound hunter and they will tell you. They will also tell you their dogs never trespass.
" I wonder how many cubs get caught by hounds during the practice season ??? "
Seriously? If there was an issue with cubs being injured, don't you think that would have been addressed years ago. Cubs will get treed. Some of you really reach in your hatred of those who run hounds.
Happy, +1. It's good to see a little common sense here.
Zinger, aren't you the one always touting that hunters should stick together? Aren't you a more hunting opportunity cheerleader? Or is all that only when you want to defend crossbows?
More wolves less dogs and trespassers. I am willing to live with that.
Yep I'm all for supporting other hunters opportunity but not when it comes to tresapssing and harrassing animals for no reason.
I know plenty of coon and rabbit hunters, none of them need to train for months on end and their dogs chase the animal great right from the start of the season.
And when those blueticks or Redbones and beagles hit property lines they stop dead on the line. Never do they impede on another's property. No trespassing issues with them no way.
Steve, I don't mean to pick on you, but facts only...
(1) Rarely do wolves "thrill kill"! That's a fact!
(2) saveourelk.com is an anti wolf website, not sure it's a good place to go for accurate information about wolves. It would be like going to ObamaIsAnAwesomePresident.com for accurate information about our current Commander In Chief.
(3) 99.99% of all dogs in wolf country will never even see a wolf. I could be wrong, it could be 99.9999999%.
Sorry, I'm off topic again.
BC
Darn it BC I went on ObamaIsAnAwesomePresident.com ang got a virus... thanks alot!
Pasq - you're the lucky one - you got a virus...I threw up! :^)
Pasq, nope plenty of them trespass as well, especially the coon hunters because they're doing it at night when no one sees them. I think there is much less of it happening with rabbit hunters because a rabbit makes such a small circle compared to a bear, fox or coyote.
Well at least we have a hunting season and trapping season and can use dogs. That is something we need to keep in mind.
Yeah there should be more tags, but at least we can hunt them.....
Here in the UP, they shot 21 out of 43 available tags. Also there is no trapping season on them, and there is no dog hunting......
I was over by Ottawa Lake yesterday, buying some trout flies, from an 81 year old tyer. I told him that my dog passed away. He told me, well I just lost my buddy. two wolves, in front of the house, tore him in half, at the end of the driveway.......
DNR investigated, found the kill to be legitimate, and he was told, " you just have to learn to live with them" Naw they dont kill for fun
Zinger -
I have a question? About the "coon hunters - hunting at night?" You said that no one see's them because it's night....
Well then how do we know their trespassing? I mean if no one see's them?
Thought I'd ask - :^)
Thanks!
Good point about how season 1 played out in the UP razor. What is the UP's population guess? The WDNR did give WI hunters a much better chance to succeed and even fought for the dreaded dog runners. Kudos to them.
I suppose no deer hunters trespass under the cover of darkness.
Have had way less issues with deer hunters than Coon and Coyote Dog hunters. It is an absolute joke that dog hunters are not responsible for what their dogs or (TOOLS) do and where they go. Plus the owners who follow them.
Now I get it... you need 2 months of practice to train your dog's not to kill the cubs.... just saw a 125 lb sow with 4 little cubs the size of coons... ya... The dogs won't kill them...LOL..
I saw what dogs did to a small bear a few years ago on a buddies bait that he had a camera on.... The entire ass of the bear was chewed on....gross as hell... but fun for some I guess..
BT, I know a couple coon hunters and when cornered they admit to trespassing quite a bit. Their common excuse is that the farmers want the coons gone so they're doing them a favor. Not saying all coon hunters do this, but again enough do that it causes a problem.
I've also come across carcasses of coons hanging from trees where they skun the coon so they didn't have to carry out the carcass. This was in woods that they didn't have permission to hunt.
Ya Zinger - just messin' with ya all!
BT, maybe if they were required to wear back tags? LOL! Just messing with ya!
SCREWBALL your handle says alot.
Screwball - Yes, dog owners are resposible for thier dogs - the ordinance is called "Dogs running at large" So yes, owners are responsible. The owners can be charged with trespassing - so there are laws in place.
Yep, just a screwball property owner that doesn't understand the use of one animal to hunt another, at times catching, injuring or killing it or the dog being used. Dog fighting and Cock fighting are condemned and illegal but we are supposed to support this type of action and the defense for defending it is, it is a form of hunting and we don't want to lose any type of hunting to the anti's. The Romans used to feed people to animals for entertainment also. And that was okay in that time period. Guess whatever one needs to do to trip their trigger. One can justify your actions however one wishes.
Screwball -
Falconry has been in exsistiance since at least 2,000 BC and still is an active sport today in Wisconsin! That's my bird "Nala" in her juvenile plummage! She caught her limit of rabbits that day!
"property owner that doesn't understand the use of one animal to hunt another"
We (hunters) have been doing that like, forever! And you say:
"Guess whatever one needs to do to trip their trigger. One can justify your actions however one wishes."
We (hunters) have hunted pheasants with dogs, ducks with dogs, geese with dogs, rabbits with dogs, down south they hunt deer with dogs! Dogs have assisted man in pursuit of game animals for many, many, many years. This isnt something that just started up last week!
I guess I dont understand your beef?
Bloodtrail, I want to be sure I am understanding you. So if it has been in existence for a long period of time and that is how it has been done that makes it alright to do? Is that correct?
I don't understand his beef either. All forms of hunting can be considered barbaric an harassment of wildlife. You can't pick or choose. It's all or nothing.
Screwball -
Not so fast my friend, before I go running off and start answering some of your questions - I asked one first.
"What is your beef" - Explain why you dont like the use of hunting dogs or any other animal in the pursuit of legal game.
Then I'll answer your questions!
Thanks!
Screwball?
Ya asleep at the wheel man?
What is the problem as you see it?
