New xbow season just became a non event!
Wisconsin
Live chat today was quite interesting. 266,000 archery licenses sold last year.As of 9/7/14, a whopping 20,396 crossbow or xbow/archery combo($3 fee) licenses have been sold. How many disabled(crossbow) permits were issued last year? Deduct that number from 20,396 to get new participants. This is a statistically insignificant and laughable number.400 of those B@stard NR's have bought bolt tags also.I am pleasantly surprised at the lack of licenses sold. Reading some threads it sounded like some bow shops had sold 20,000 xbows themselves.So the sky isn't falling chicken little,back away from the sharp objects, the sun will rise Saturday morning.
Or, you can look at as an additional 20 K trophy animals will die that normally would have made it through the season. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I had to pee on your cereal. Nov. it wouldn't be fun if we all thought the same way.
So...we're assuming a 100% success rate for all 20k crossbow hunters AND every single one of them is going to kill a trophy animal.
10...you peed on November's cereal alright, but with talk like that, you may get asked to put some of it in a cup for testing.
All kidding aside I do agree with the larger points that both of you are making. I agree with November that the license numbers are not a reason to get all uptight, but 10 is right in that some additional trophy animals will be taken off the landscape by crossbows.
Good luck this weekend gentlemen.
Take the disabled permit holders from last year off the 20k and I bet the number is closer to 10k. Heck I know 2 disabled xbow hunters myself.
10, which has a greater impact on deer hunting, maybe 5,000 more young bucks down or more ag fields in Ozaukee county being subdivided?
How many of those new hunters will be using them on your property November?
I have had 2 disabled xbow hunters on my place for decades.1 now has to be driven to and carried into the blind. I hosted 3 new youth hunters last year for their first deer. Preachin to the choir Pasq.
" A ML hunter is not a rifle" Bingo, my 200 yard inline ML is not a rifle and my 300fps, 7 pin wheelie bow certainly isn't a crossbow. Thank god I can now sleep at night.lol. The lines are blurred for good, choose your legal poison and have fun.
But I thought xbows were pouring out of the stores? People were heading right to the xbow counters we were told. I guess those hundreds of thousands of people just haven't bought their license yet.
I'll be curious to see if I get knocked out by those dreaded xbow guys on the way to my stand on Sat.
Thanks for the info NF.
Good luck to all those participating in the archery season this year regardless of their weapon of choice.
Pasquinell, I hope you rethink your boycott position. You would really miss the serenity that you've had.
Novemberforever-
Question - Did they include the patron holders who do not have to purchase the crossgun permit in these numbers?
Just curious
Did anyone take in the buck only zone for bow and how many will be x-bow used, it would make a real baseline on the kill.
Does the Patron License include a crossbow tag?
My guess is that number hits closer to 25,000 if not more when its all said and done. Double that number next year for a total and a few years from now we will be closing in on 100,000. I would guess we will trend like Michigan.
More hunters in the field during archery season, but no additional increase in overall hunter numbers. Really, no effect on recruitment as promised.
BC
I'm sure there will be quite a few others sold. I wonder how many either aren't buying a crossbow tag as they are trying to pass off as hunting with a vertical bow. Also how many maybe don't even know they need a separate crossbow tag. They just hear that crossbows are legal for all and go out and buy one.
Wait till the rut...numbers will change significantly...
And yes... I do expect near 100% success for the guys using the xbow..
But most of the bucks killed won't be trophies for 5 years...
BUCK ONLY....Helllloooooooo
Been saying all along that people will not go out and throw down $400 to $1900 on a crossbow in the first year. It is going to take time. I bet that number goes up some yet as we get closer to rut.
I haven't purchased my bow tag yet. I'd check the numbers after Friday night.
I haven't purchased my bow tag yet. I'd check the numbers after Friday night.
"And yes... I do expect near 100% success for the guys using the xbow."
Must be one hell of a weapon when the buck success rate with a rifle is 15%.
MikeF- not sure on the patron deal?
I believe I read in WON that the Patrons includes both tags.
AW is really coming up with some dandy comments. 100% success for crossbow guys. I thought all the crossbow guys were gun hunters. Gun hunting has what about a 30% success rate but those same guys with a crossbow will now be 100%? It's laughable if he didn't think it was the truth.
I said all along that it was going to be a non-issue and at the end of the season we will see that it was a non-issue.
I think there will be more guys % wise buying crossbow liscences after the season opens than people buying bowhunting tags. But the number still won't rise to enough to be an issue.
" I'd check the numbers after Friday night."
You can't just dial up the numbers. Either have a DNR employee willing to share via live chat or file a request thru freedom of info act. Either way, this number is shockingly low when you take out last years disabled permits. Frankly, considering the strong heritage to the vertical in this state it really should not be a surprise. Do flyfisherman willingly start soaking garden meat on a lindy rig?
It is hard to believe those numbers to be accurate. I mean I know 4 guys that bought xbows but not the license because they also own compounds. Screwed yes !!!! For the time being the PY book will be screwed up also cause there is no way to verify if the deer was shot with a compound or not.
YOu mean you know 4 guys who are to cheap to spend $3 to get the correct permit and are willing to risk a hefty fine to save $3? That's a little hard to believe.
There really wasn't a way to verify if the animal was shot was shot with a bow before. You could have shot it with a rifle and told P&Y it was shot with a bow. Heck you could have made the antlers yourself (Rompola) and told them you shot it with a bow! Why is it that you think just because someone uses a crossbow they are going to be dishonest?
" the PY book will be screwed up also cause there is no way to verify if the deer was shot with a compound or not."
It's called an affidavit form. You either have personal integrity or You don't. Cheaters will always cheat.
Unfortunately the disabled permits in the past were good for a number of years. It was discretion of the person issuing the permit based on what the applicants doctor said on their application. I think the maximum they could allow was more than 10 years before the applicant had to submit another application. So the number of eligible crossbow hunters actually bow hunting in any given year was an unknown. Then add to that the people that used crossbows based on age and the unknown number becomes even more unknown.
So, after all that being said, who the heck knows how many of those hunters that were out there with xbows for years are represented in the number of xbow tags issued to date.
The point is there should not be one crossgun license sold unless to the elderly or disabled. I still believe they should have to wear pink camo and have pink back tags.
" So the number of eligible crossbow hunters actually bow hunting in any given year was an unknown."
Wrong, the DNR knows exactly how many xbow/disabled permits were issued last year otherwise the wardens could not enforce it. They have a number, 10,000? 20,000?
True Nov. and actually with more farmland being divided into sub- divisions one could argue is a positive because it provides artificial safe zones for bucks. Just look at what runs through the backyards. Anyway, look what I did for your thread. It's like I opened a bee hive.
For the record, I support a separate crossbow season for anyone not labeled as having a disability and for allowing the crossbow during the regular rifle or muzzleloader seasons. The separate season should either be in December or run during the muzzleloader season. IMO it has no place during the regular archery season.
rjn, then you will be happy to know that there will not be one crossgun license sold in the state, or in the country.
How many of you have really played with a crossbow? For every positive you think they have there is also a negative they have compared to a compound.
I'm betting most Xbowers will wait for the rut.....
Compound bows were a non event in 1968. Crossbows will pick up momentum every year for the foreseeable future, just as compounds did. Let's talk in five years ( 60 months).
Non issue this year? Maybe, but give it 5 years and we will be closing in on 100,000. Is that a non issue as well? Maybe for some.
Jeff in Mn nailed it when he said not many ready to drop $1,000 on a new set up the first year.
Has anyone seen all the crossbow ads in WON? They must be loving crossbow inclusion.
I'm looking for the big increase in new hunters added to our ranks. That is something to get excited about. I wonder what that number is this year? 15?
BC
They could make them choose between a gun tag or a crossbow tag since they are more like a gun. That would even it out a little more.
I don't go along with 10:00 AM election polling place reports and certainly don't view the numbers of hunting licenses sold for a three month season at a point in time before that season has even begun as being anything close to accurate or complete.
Nov wrote".400 of those B@stard NR's have bought bolt tags ...I'm not an NR But I bought a 3.00 upgrade..so what?I will get kicked around for this ,but really don't care my choice not yours,,,Have a safe and productive season.
Amen Joe Amen!! The sky is falling mentality is getting old... I just enjoy hunting whether its with a bow, Xbow, muzzleloader, rifle, shotgun.. I just like changing it up.. :) Good luck all Be safe and have fun! Enjoy the Hunt...
Not many on this site think the sky is falling because of crossbows, at least not me. I'm did/am looking at crossbows in an honest light. Can't say the same for others here. I don't care what you hunt with, as long as its legal go for it. Enjoy the season! BC
Well stated Joe, Ravenjake and BC.
"They could make them choose between a gun tag or a crossbow tag since they are more like a gun. That would even it out a little more."
Even what out? If you want to hunt with a gun or a crossbow then do it, don't whine about it not being fair when you have every ability to do it also.
They are not more like a gun either! Obviously you've never played with one very much. If you did you would realize that they are much closer to a bow and in many instances a bow is much better than a crossbow.
Zinger, you have it right. Unfortunately, many people are blinded by hate, have never shot a crossbow, and quite frankly need something to bitch about. This will fade away, then something new will come about....giving the chronic complainers something else to gruff at.
People simply don't like change, and I might agree with them if "change" is what Obama claimed, but in my opinion, crossbows don't mean squat!
Saturday I will be hunting with my vertical bow, and apparently, I'm twice the hunter and woodsman because or it! lol
Zinger, you have it right. Unfortunately, many people are blinded by hate, have never shot a crossbow, and quite frankly need something to bitch about. This will fade away, then something new will come about....giving the chronic complainers something else to gruff at.
People simply don't like change, and I might agree with them if "change" is what Obama claimed, but in my opinion, crossbows don't mean squat!
Saturday I will be hunting with my vertical bow, and apparently, I'm twice the hunter and woodsman because or it! lol
Zinger- do you shoot your crossgun or just "play" with it. Hardcore bowhunters will always believe crossguns belong to the elderly and handicap.
rjn, I don't own a F'n crossgun, I own a crossBOW! It has a BOW on top of it, as far as I can see there is no firing pin, rifled barrel, or expanding bullet. Continuing to call it a crossgun shows either complete ignorance or that you just like to stir the pot.
It's not hardcore bowhunters, it's elietist bowhunters that believe they're only for the elderly and handicapped.
Bow Crazy with your analogy and sentiment,might as well have it be a generic season all 90+ days and hunt with gun, ML whatever crossbow etc, Hey as long as its legal right?
Perspective- If the xbow license sales double from 9/7, less the 10,000 disabled xbow permits from last year=30,000 new bolt hunters. That's 375 new(non gun) deer hunters per county or 1 new hunter every 2 square miles spread over a 3 month season. Not exactly the Wolf river@Freemont during the white bass run. I can see the threads Monday about all the bolt hunters screwin up the deer woods this weekend.
Curiously, why are so many upset over the public being granted access to a public resource?
jsd, the public had that access before, it's just that some want it even easier.
The public resource in the north is already hurting. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to add another user group. Not to mention the fact if your able bodied and dont want to stick the time and effort in to learn how to shoot a bow, do everybody a favor and go buy a set of golf clubs.
Who cares just hunt.......
SteveD, I'm not following. I'm not sure where you came up with the 90+ day all weapons season. That would make no sense to anyone, not even the crossbow supporters. BC
Great response Howatt. I'll second and third what you said.
Quote from November...
"Wrong, the DNR knows exactly how many xbow/disabled permits were issued last year otherwise the wardens could not enforce it. They have a number, 10,000? 20,000?"
Say last years number of xbow permits issued by the DNR was 4000 (I doubt it was that many, probably more like 500) then that only means that they approved 4000 people to get their first permit last year or approved a renewal of their permit last year. BUT permits that had been issued over probably the last 15 years could still be valid as they do not expire every year. The length of time they are good for depends on the type of disability the hunter has and whether it is possible it will heal over time.
So, the DNR would know how many people are currently holding a current permit but they do not know how many of them actually bought an archery license in any given year or if they are even still among the living. (they could figure it out by cross checking license sales with still active permits but I doubt the DNR has any interest in doing that)
November, just ask your buddies with disabilities that hunt with xbows on your land. They didn't need to renew their permit every year.
By the way warden enforcement was based on the disabled hunter having a permit in their pocket along with their current archery license. Backup would have been for them to call in and have someone check your customer record, that database has a field in it that indicates if you have an active xbow permit and when it expires.
My curiosity has me wondering how many permits were active last year so I have a call into the DNR. I did find out that those people were sent a letter telling them to buy the xbow license this year. So I am guessing the number is not huge. The person that might know that number was not in so I left them a message to call me. I will post the number if/when I get it.
Howatt...agree 100%.
The anxiety level amongst bowhunters seems to be off the charts with this fear that a ton of guys are going to walk into woods and start dropping a ton of deer with x-guns.
I don't see it happening for the reasons Howatt illustrated.
By choice due to, (lack of skill, effort, motivation, lack of belief in their abilities, or pure laziness) these hunters have decided that bowhunting is too difficult.
Having already "tapped" out before the bell even sounded, are we (bowhunters) truly convinced that all the "new" x-gun hunters are actually going to practice with their new toys to the point of being lethal?? I don't see it and I don't believe it.
I honestly believe that the average x-gun hunter in the state will be just like the average 9-day gun hunter (who's actually a 2-day gun hunter) The average 9-day guy sends three rounds down range the weekend before the hunt, and thinks he can shoot a trophy at 200+ yards. The x-gun guy that shot at a target once, maybe...will be the same way.
By pure dumb luck they may get a deer within 50 yards, but gettin' it done will be an entirely different story.
I'd be more worried about them wandering through your hunting spot b/c they haven't seen any deer after 45 minutes and got bored, than shooting any deer.
I like what firsty said.. WHO CARES JUST HUNT! LOL
"(they could figure it out by cross checking license sales with still active permits but I doubt the DNR has any interest in doing that)"
The DNR can easily cross check and have that number. They should have an interest to know how many truely new xbow guys they have and how many vertical guys went bolt. My guess is 10,000 disabled xbow users last year. That's 1/26. I know 15 bowhunters in Wisconsin and 2 of those have been xbow hunting for decades. Anybody else know that guy who had the shoulder/back injury and found a Dr. to write a scrip? About as easy as getting a medical marijuana scrip in Cal. If the disabled # is not disclosed then we simply look at the totals. 266,000 last year. I doubt the combined xbow/vertical total hits 300,000.
November, has anyone from the department told you that they would not cross check and obtain the actual number of new crossbow users?
CM, No, during the livechat they did not have that number handy. They did share the xbow.combo,and NR xbow number instantly which was great. Let's see if JeffMn. gets the number. I don't see why they wouldn't provide it. They sent me a link under an "open records request" law on my email request.
I'd be surprised if they do not make it available. As someone who was very involved in the issue, I most certainly will want to see it.
Might be a good idea to wait until the next update of license sale data is available before we draw any conclusions. Paul Smith at the MJS had information in his Thursday column (which included a feature on a couple who teaches archery) on license sales through last Sunday. As of that date, archery sales were 49,815 and crossbow were 21,081. A couple things of note: the archery total is down about 11% from the same time last year. And the number of licenses sold of both types is probably going to spike in the coming days. On opening day last year, Smith said Wisconsin sold 218,896 licenses. So we should know a lot more in about a week.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/franksville-couple-aims-to-educate-archers-of-all-ages-b99348927z1-274705521.html
The person in Madison called me back.
First total xbow licenses sold right now is at about 25,000 but said that figure does not mean a lot until after opener.
Number of active xbow permit holders that they sent letters to was about 14,000. So in theory there could have been 14,000 xbow hunters in the woods last year that qualified by disability. Plus however many hunted based on age.
Howatt, exactly especially when crossgun hunters only hunt unicorns since they're both mythical.
New xbow season is becoming an event! BC
"Number of active xbow permit holders that they sent letters to was about 14,000."
Thx for the info JeffMn. My initial guess was scary close. So now we can take 14,000 off the xbow, combo total to get the real number of vertical gone bolt and truely new bolt hunters. I would consider a crossbow/archery combo tag as xbow as it shows intent.
People are funny aren't they? Will anyone know the real numbers? When the phone in registration takes hold will we have the real numbers? November you seem to be a guy that uses figures for many things. Do you feel confident in the system? You can't include the Milwaukee zoo you own and hunt either. I am talking big woods. They eliminate doe tags in areas but roll out the ol' crossbows to counter the doe tags while sprinkling with a dash of bonus bucks. Do they want me to be cart wheeling in happiness? Heck no.
I am going to use others words here... I guess we will have to wait and see how the numbers pan out...
I will know the numbers when I go to Mountain or Cable hunting and see deer again like before.
" Do you feel confident in the system?" ? Phone in registration? Yes. This year a whopping 16,000 who have registered every year will test the program. I doubt many will forget to call in a kill. Bonus bucks? That's simply sound passive cwd management. The herd up north will explode again with no doe tags, buck harvest is meaningless for future dpsm.
I just got back from Fleet Farm and in four lines there were five buying x-guns. (?)
Still not quite that simple Novemberforever.
14k were eligible to use an xbow. That does not mean they actualy even bought a bow license last year. So the real number is something less than that.
Then you have to factor in the fact that people eligible to use an xbow last year based on age are simply not known how many they count for. However they need to buy an xbow license this year so that will artifically inflate the number of xbow licenses sold this year.
So, I think in another month or so it might be possible to come up with a reasonable estimation of 'new' xbow hunters but won't really know how close our guess is.
So if this is a non issue... and only a few licenses are sold.. that tells me one of 2 things is happening.. either many xgunners are just passing as bowhunters... or ... The store shelves being full of xbow gear is a total waste of time... I talked to 3 shop owners since this joke became reality.. and none of them can get xbows in fast enough... so if the shops are selling out of xbows.. you can bet the numbers posted are not close to accurate..and its not by accident..
Good luck to all tomorrow in the WI Xbow season.
I'll be working on prepping for my North Dakota and Nebraska hunts
"you can bet the numbers posted are not close to accurate..and its not by accident.."
Are You saying some guys would be dumb enough to not buy the $3 stamp and get caught or are you saying the numbers from the DNR have been manipulated to further a huge conspiracy? "Boltgate scandal unmasked, film at 10!"
I am saying I don't believe that if shops can't keep xbows on the shelves... These numbers era are not accurate...either they are skewed by the DNR... "Master of Cerimonies" ... or a ton of guys are just going to use a bow license to tag xbow kills...and who would really know??
U pick.. But the fact that 100% of the shops i was in are selling them out sure don't jive with these low numbers you posted .. I smell a rat.
I am going with the Boltgate theory. We wouldnt think the DNR would doing anything Lerner style would we?
I will rebuilding my basement entry doors till Spring and then getting the boat ready. Here's to a harsh winter and a mass depletion of the herd! Cheers to ya!
I will be doing some cleaning in my pole shed.
Shooting a little..
And checking gear for hunting trips ..
Fighting over deer with xbow nerds...not at all interested.
Howatt, Please don't presume to know what "I mean to say". I know what I wanted to say and said exactly what I wanted to say. Don't put your words in my mouth. Wisconsin's whitetail herd is a public resource which is under the authority of the state to manage. The state has decided to expand the means in which this resource is to be managed. Your statements about individuals who decide to legally pursue deer with a crossbow are unoriginal, tiresome and mostly baseless and unproven. There are plenty of people hunting with compound and traditional archery equipment that have no ethical business being in the woods. To try and disguise your personal bias about a piece of equipment by attacking people you have no familiarity with is amusing and nothing else. Expansion of our sporting community is a good thing. It's good for the future of whitetail hunting, it's good for our economy and it's good for the individuals who now have en equal opportunity to passionately and ethically hunt whitetails as you do.
"An equal opportunity". There always was an equal opportunity to archery hunt deer in Wisconsin.
Looks like archery license sales are down 14% as of the opener.
From Paul Smith at MJS: Through Sunday, the Department of Natural Resources reported sales of 102,422 archer licenses and 36,460 crossbow licenses through Sunday. The archer total is down 16,609 from the same time last year.
DNR guy said they don't know if the crossbow sales went to new hunters, switched hunters or what but will trying to learn more.
36,460 crossbow licenses through Sunday? Wow, I didn't expect that. Will we hit 40,000 or even 45,000? BC
" 36,460 crossbow licenses through Sunday. The archer total is down 16,609 from the same time last year."
14,000 of those were disabled xbow hunters last year anyway. Looks like 22,000 new bolt users.How many of those were vertical guys last year?
The steady decline of bowhunting is here. Good luck WBH and archery clubs, you are history unless you accept mechanical archery. Good night!
1 in 3 are now taking the easy way out...
C U later bow clubs. Glad I had a chance to enjoy them.
36,460 crossbow licenses through Sunday.
14,000 of those were disabled xbow hunters last year.
Out of the remaining 22,460 take a guess that over half of them were using xbows last year based on their age.
So, that maybe means 11,000 out of the 36,460 xbow licenses sold are really people that might be using a crossbow now that did not carry one before.
Plus nobody knows how many people are throwing an extra $3 down on an xbow tag just to throw the statistics off. Or maybe they think that the xbow tag allows them to shoot a second buck. (third buck if you also count their gun tag)
Do we know for sure yet if the patron license comes with an xbow tag? I don't know how many patrons licenses are sold but that could increase the number of new xbow hunters that would not be in these statistics. Or maybe patron license xbow tags are already counted in the 36,460.
All I am pointing out is that figures don't lie but depending on how you spin them around there are plenty of ways to look at what those figures might really mean.
100 percent sure that a patrons licence comes with a xbow tag. I didnt ask for one and I got a xbow tag with my license.
Not really a non event in my experience. Opening Day pm hunt a neighbor shot a 120 class at about 50 yds with an X bow just as it was going to pass next to my buddy, whom was maybe 80 yards down a field edge from me. This buck I was watching all summer. Then last night a different neighbor shot an 11 point, which I have been watching the past few weeks at at least 50 yds while sitting in his gun box blind for 15 minutes (he didn't even go to his stand until 6!) Obviously, with xbow. Neither of these 2 are disabled. Just this week a guy in our camp, who has never bow hunted decided to go buy an X bow. Long story short, definitely not a non event for me and others I hunt with. Maybe for others I guess. Congrats to the successful hunters, though
Novice, this is the reason once the Big Tent is open you will never know the out come; the door should have been shut a few yrs ago and put bowhunting back to hunting. But you got what the masses wanted and now there is no going back. Just hope the state across the River is paying close attention to what has happen in Wi. and just stay the course. Good Hunting.
Novice, Your observations from your hunting area will become the norm. Archery hunting will continue to spiral down the crapper. The sport of bowhunting has been cheapened big time. It appears it will continue on that course as "hunters" apparently still want the sport to become even easier. Will technology eventually make it easy enough that the whiners will finally be silenced? Dont hold your breath.
If it doesn't directly affect November, he doesn't care. Let's see how much he whines when out of state tags go up another 100.00.
After the 2 yr trial I think cross guns should be allowed in the late season only. Also there should be limits on tech advancement for compounds.
"If it doesn't directly affect November, he doesn't care. Let's see how much he whines when out of state tags go up another 100.00. "
Rut, 2/8 of us r xbolt hunters for decades. I just locked in 160 acres for a 50 year closed Mfl contract.I am now saving $8k/yearx50 years=$400k savings. You think I care if NR tags go up? Too funny.
November, I am sure a $100 fee increase doesn't mean anything. What might mean something was if you had to hunt public property where crossbow use did have an effect on your hunting.
Taxes on 160 acres are far from I grand... BS DETECTER is red lining again that tells me he owns zero land is what that statement says... I am starting to believe this is one of Ronnie alias'
LOL
"Taxes on 160 acres are far from I grand." What? AW, rec land(woods) taxes are $60/acre or $11/acre in closed mfl. $49x160=$7,840 in tax savings per year. 5th grade math problem.
Might be off here but I thought you could only have 80 acres in the MFL closed?
Edit: 160 since 2005 and 80% must be forest.
Sounds like Novice is upset that someone legally took a deer off of land that they owned. Again the selfishness comes through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdkPBWUZ4bA Never thought of using one of these with a bow but now that we've all seen it I think all of you should put your efforts behind getting rid of compound bows. Since they can now be shot as accuratly as a crossbow, are quiter, have less drop, and can be shot off of a rest.
Well it's not a non event near me. On public land, I had my 3rd hunt disrupted by crossbow "hunters" yet again doing drives. I asked one of them if they ever sit. He said no, this is how we gun hunt and it works great then.
Zinger +1 Rut - really drives?? yeah that is a bit odd to me!
Zinger +1 Rut - really drives?? yeah that is a bit odd to me!
I've done drives with the bow before. I never shot anything on them but others have. Sounds more like you don't like the way they were hunting so instead of critisizing that you rip on the weapon they chose.
We have tried to push deer to those sitting in a blind - but that is typically late season as there are less people out and not disturbing other hunters.
Sorry for the double post ;-)
" 160 since 2005 and 80% must be forest."
That's per owner on the title and for each township. So 2 owners on a title can cover 320 closed mfl acres per township.
Well Zinger per an individual in this group, they were all using crossbows and were all 1st year "bow"hunters. But all have gun hunted for years. Yes I happen to think that drives on public land that disrupt others is very inconsiderate.
So there are more people enjoying the outdoors - that's a good thing. They could say that you sitting in the middle of their drive ditrupted them also.
The way some on here are so elietest and anti anything that isn't exactly like they do it I don't believe much of what they say. Two weeks into the season and he's had 3 hunts screwed up by crossbows? Is he hunting a 1 acre piece of public land in Milwuakee county?
I know a group that only does drives with bows. It can work just about as well as with guns if done correctly.
More people enjoying the outdoors? Gimme a break. Apparently they couldnt enjoy the outdoors without a crossgun in their hands? We needed to make a special season so they could finally enjoy the outdoors? Let me guess, Zinger voted for Obama twice.
Voted or Obama? Now that's hitting way below the belt! I only vote republican because there aren't any better choices to vote for, politicians that really know what it's like to be conservative.
They get to enjoy the outdoors more now. And they're doing it with a weapon no more efficient than most compounds out there.
Do you really think that the crossbow is at the end of its evolution? Its at the beginning. Your right, compounds were let go to far. I thought maybe we would be smarter this time around, seeing what compounds morphed into. Technology will continue its march to destroy the sport of bowhunting. The crossbow will quicken the pace.
"They could say that you sitting in the middle of their drive ditrupted them also."
Well they could, but that would have been pretty stupid considering I was the first one there.
"Do you really think that the crossbow is at the end of its evolution? Its at the beginning. Your right, compounds were let go to far. I thought maybe we would be smarter this time around, seeing what compounds morphed into. Technology will continue its march to destroy the sport of bowhunting. The crossbow will quicken the pace. "
Crossbows and compounds will continue to evolve. So will all the new fangled hunting gadgets. Even "trad" gear has evolved with composite limbs. Look at all the manufactures of box blinds nowadays. Used to be none of them, only people building their own. Ease of performance and comforts. Follow the $$$$, it always wins.
The two brothers from Iowa used to drive deer to each other a lot. All they use is archery equipment.
"Do you really think that the crossbow is at the end of its evolution? Its at the beginning."
xbows have been evolving for about 900 years.
RutNut, I'm betting you were in camo which is pretty hard to see. Did they even know you were there? If so it was poor sportsmanship but that has nothing to do with the weapon they were using. I've had gun hunters do a drive right through where I was hunting and they could see me in my tree. I also hear stories every year on here about bowhunters setting up 20yds away from someone else knowing they were there. Again the weapon someone uses does not decide the sportsmanship and ethics of the hunter. Your blind hate for crossbows is coming through.
"More people enjoying the outdoors" Yeah, there were so many people that used to just sit in their house and think about joining PETA because they could only hunt deer with their beloved crossbow during the firearm season or the muzzleloader season or if they had a physical limitation or if they were over a certain age. That was a travesty!
Zinger, yes they knew I was there as my truck was the first in the parking lot. When I got to the truck, there were 3 other trucks there. Two of those trucks were the crossbow drivers. The 3rd truck is a guy I know who seen my truck and hunted across the road to give me my space as I do with him and others. Yes I've had other bowhunters set up near me not knowing I was there. It is public land, but there are unwritten rules that most serious public land hunters try to abide by. These guys had the gun season mentality that I have run into many times when I used to gun hunt public land. For someone that supposedly has zero financial interest in crossbows. You sure do seem to love them.
Muzzle loaders will be the next Handicapped and 65 and older weapon advantage... promise they will get a advantage of sort once again...
RutNut, I love them? I have said many times how much I don't like them for hunting, they're a PITA compared to a compound bow. I do however not have a problem with other people using them.
The crossbow lobbyist from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel swatted a doe in a food plot on opening weekend with a crossbow, and wrote:
"Was it easier with a crossbow? Yes."
Refreshing honesty.
"xbows have been evolving for about 900 years." Yup. And the evolution in the next 10 years will surpass the last 900 by light years. Muzzleloaders use to be a short range weapon in the not to distant past. Now they are 250 yard single shot rifles. The exact same scenario will play out with the crossbow. Reduced bag limits and shortened seasons coming soon to a woodlot near you, courtesy of the crossbow.
retro,
Has that ever happened anywhere Xbows are used yet?
Advancement in crossbow technology are virtually limitless compared to a conventional compound bow. What can be done with compounds has pretty much been done, the the big limiting factor with them is the fact that they are drawn and held by hand. Crossbows are pre-drawn and really have no limiting factors beyond physical weight and size.
@ Zinger. You said "Sounds like Novice is upset that someone legally took a deer off of land that they owned. Again the selfishness comes through."
You know what they say about assuming. Thanks for making a totally off base judgment and resorting to attack on character. I was merely responding to the thread as it's titled. The addition of crossbows for anyone was an event for me and had direct effects to hunting in our area. That's it, plain and simple. 2 deer taken by guys, whom did not meet the previous requirements for hunting with a xbow in wi in situations where they would not have been able to do so with a vertical bow (50 yds out in stands/situations set up for gun hunting. ) The 3rd person was someone who's in better shape then most guys I know and didn't bow hunt previously until the rule changed. I never even gave my opinion on the xbow in general in my post. Also, we already had one crossbower in camp, whom met both of the previous criteria required. I encourage him every year to get in the woods and hope he can be successful. Other than the kids in camp, he's the one i want to see get a deer the most. As to the 2nd neighbor whom shot the 11 pt. My buddy went over to him when he saw him get out of his blind to help track the deer. Then myself and another buddy went with our camp's atv into the woods, loaded it up for him, and drove it back to camp. He also only had his compact car with him and had to call his dad back home to bring a truck up. So, then you know what our "selfish" selves did? We hauled it back to our camp, where we had a large stock of ice (he had none at his cabin) and filled the cavity with it to keep it cool since it was very warm and it would be a couple hours for his dad to get there. Then we invited him and his family to hang out with us to enjoy themselves & celebrate his success, which they did. There were congratulations from everyone & some great comraderi. Again, as to the reason for the thread. Not much of a non event to us. Would i have liked to shoot those deer myself? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? I consider both hunts as a success for me. I was set up strategically to be in a position to get them as well. Someone else just happened to get them first. Also, I love being on a blood trail & to be able to help someone else successfully recover their animal is rewarding.
Zinger, as usual you put your foot in your mouth. Novice, great job on being a very good neighbor.
Retro and Novice, good posts!
Novice, Good job on being a sportsman - sorry I mis-took your post.
I think crossbows are pretty much maxed out as far as technology also, any advances in either crossbows or compounds will pretty much equal.
I really do think that the range of crossbows is over estimated. 50yds is still a looong shot with a crossbow. Like people saying that a muzzle loader is a 250yd gun. Yes they can be used at those ranges but it takes someone who knows what they're doing and does a lot of shooting to be able to hit out at those ranges, same as someone with a bow or crossbow shooting at 60 or 70yds,
Novice, Good job on being a sportsman - sorry I mis-took your post.
I think crossbows are pretty much maxed out as far as technology also, any advances in either crossbows or compounds will pretty much equal.
I really do think that the range of crossbows is over estimated. 50yds is still a looong shot with a crossbow. Like people saying that a muzzle loader is a 250yd gun. Yes they can be used at those ranges but it takes someone who knows what they're doing and does a lot of shooting to be able to hit out at those ranges, same as someone with a bow or crossbow shooting at 60 or 70yds,
We have a state where the northern half has a deer population that is struggling at best. Years and years of to many tags, severe winters, and an out of control predator population that isnt going away any time soon. Adding another user group with more efficient weapons makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? Crossbows do have longer range capabilities when you add the fact that many are going to shoot them from a bench rest in their condo stands. TO think down the road that this isnt going to have a negative effect on Wisconsin Archery is ridiculous in my opinion. Time will tell.
Crossbows are in their infancy with regard to technology. Consumer demand and competition for that demand is what drives technological advancements. As crossbows continue to become more popular with former gun hunters, rest assured we will continue to see advancements that will grow by leaps and bounds.
Given the fact that the crossbow and compound bow are of the same design, meaning they both have limbs,cams,strings and cables, and they both propel a arrow, and the only difference in doing that is the crossbow is held in firing position by a mechanical trigger mechanism, and the compound is held by a hand held trigger mechanism. Please explain how the crossbow will advance in technology and the compound bow will not. In the last ten years, which advanced faster in technology, the crossbow or compound bow? Again explain your answer/opinion.
retro, look at my link above where it shows how a compound bow can be shot off a rest, that should get rid of any argument that the crossbow is more efficient because it can be shot off of a rest.
howatt, you may as well not bother addressing posts to me as I will not respond to your posts. You've been kicked off this, and other, sites so many times we can't even count it. If this site had an ignore feature you would be on it. If everyone did this then maybe the troll would just go away.
Oldhunter, you missed one very important item. The crossbow is not drawn and held until discharged. It is pre-cocked and can be done so with mechanical means. That takes away the limitation of the users strength as a factor.
"We have a state where the northern half has a deer population that is struggling at best. Years and years of to many tags, severe winters, and an out of control predator population that isnt going away any time soon. Adding another user group with more efficient weapons makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? Crossbows do have longer range capabilities when you add the fact that many are going to shoot them from a bench rest in their condo stands. TO think down the road that this isnt going to have a negative effect on Wisconsin Archery is ridiculous in my opinion. Time will tell."
Well said retro, but according to Zinger you aren't worried about the herd, you are greedy. Of course I stopped taking anything Zinger said seriously when he said there is no such thing as target panic.
Regulations are made to control the herd, weapon choice isn't the factor. The DNR, finally, did something to control the down slide by having no does shot in those areas, the small number of bucks shot in those areas by crossbows are not going to affect the herd in any serious way. I don't think the total archery buck kill in those areas will really affect the herd either. Archery season is never really used to manage the herd, that's what gun season is for.
If you don't allow target panic to happen then it won't happen. I'm sorry if you have a weak mind and allow yourself to get all panicy. Like way to many on here you try to make archery such a hard thing when it's not.
Zinger why don't you just go to a cross gun forum.
I've never seen a crossgun forum, heck I don't even know what one is.
If you mean crossbow why would I? I don't even own one anymore and I don't like hunting with them. I'm just not worried about them doing anything to the archery season like it seems many others are.
I will help you out Zinger….. Just go up to Howatt post. There is a cross gun.
Michigan is up to 160,000 xbow hunters??? How long before WI has that?? 2..5 years .. you guys keep wasting your time here trying to bowhunt... I will head to states that make sense for archers... not another dime from this guy going to and WI hunting group or the DNR....
AW, some of these guys are too stupid to get your point.
" Weapon choice is not a factor in controlling the herd"!!!! Really, why then a separate license, season and harvest goal for archery vs gun hunters? Now add crossbows to the mix. Strange logic in my opinion. Why not have one season, one goal, and you use whatever weapon you choose?
ST ..lol..your right.. we are very close to using all weapons the entire season... how long of a deer season would that be..3. Maybe 4 weeks? ?? Folks don't realize the dangers of eliminating archery ...which is exactly what the xbow season has done... you can tout numbers for this season.... but look at MI... We will be to that point much quicker...
As of today.. we have no archery season... it is now a xbow season... Wisconsin has turned its back on us..and will no longer get a dime from me.
Zinger, apology accepted. Since I don't know anyone that can predict the future, we are all just guessing what the overall impact will be in years to come. I will say that it has been a bigger issue than I originally anticipated. As for the effective range, definitely more than the usual 20-30 yds average I hear most people I talk to discuss. Again, the 2 recent instances by me were 50 yds. Maybe that's the maximum, but I can see pushing the envelope further. Just like the example of inline muzzle loaders already mentioned. I've seen a couple deer in our regular gun season camp taken at 200 yds with a smoke pole. Hardly what I would consider a primitive weapon. Time will tell I guess.
I do not believe crossbows will affect the deer herd in the least. However, crossbows could very well have changed how non-archers view the archery season. That is why we fought to give the crossbow a separate season and license.
Went to the feed store to purchase bird food yesterday and owner has 80 acres in Southeastern WI. I asked how he was doing and if he has been able to get out. He said he hasn't seen anything in his sits so far but his 14 year old nephew shot one. I said nice and the usual banter about how big etc. Said the boy has been bow hunting for about two years with a Mathews compound but used a crossbow this year. I was taken by surprise and asked if he knew why he changed or why he wanted to use? He said nephew told him they look cool and "like a gun"... His dad (also a compound hunter) bought it because he wanted to try it and will also be using the crossbow this season.
He helped carry the bags to my truck and saw the Fred Bear picture on the back of my window and said "That's that Fred dude isn't it" I said yep that's ol' Fred alright and good luck hunting with the new weapon. He said no that's my brother but I may give it a try.
I've said this before. But why are those of us that wanted to keep archery season for vertical bows only greedy. Yet those that want the easy way aren't? That is how my kids reason when they are trying to convince to let them do something.
My bad .. should be Southwestern... Crawford I think but not 100% sure of county.
Rut +1. By them charging us with being greedy they take the spotlight off their own greed. At least to some of the ill-informed.
Rut, I told that to Rep. Al Ott in a crossbow hearing at the Capital. He told me my point of view was that of being selfish and I told him that each and every person in that room was there to express their own point of view. Told him I was no more or less selfish than each and every other person at that hearing.
CaptMike, you were fighting a losing battle by trying to reason with a politician. But I greatly appreciate that you took the time to fight the good fight.
Ohhh... looks like I can cross Al Ott of the political donor list... LOL..
If this is a non event... why so many folks posting here ?? This is a small sliver of the state's bowhunters... yet everyone has a bitch about the xbows.. But it's a non factor????
Ya... ahhh... ok..
