Trail cameras on Public land
Colorado
I saw 2 trail cameras last week while hunting on public land. Not real sure what to think about this? What does public opinion say about using these out there? Your thoughts?
I would say use at your own risk, which is what guys do.
I put up trail cams in the Rout National forest off of Gore Pass a few years ago and had my name address and phone number on them and had a few guys contact me and ask what pictures were on them an even had one person friend me on Facebook. I have herd some theft stories about cams and tree stands in GMU 103 while deer hunting. But I think for the most part we have to trust our fellow sportsman.
What be be the problem other than theft?
OOps. Ive had two cameras on public land for 6-7 years. I don't put them on people trails. I did have one stolen until the guy bragged to friends about "finding" a camera. After he talked to the deputy he gave it back. I think that there is an assumed risk but I've had a lot more trouble with bears that humans.
Scott
I just put some Colorado University on mine and say. Property of Colorado State University elk study. For more information call bla bla bla
I know through law enforcement connections that CPW and FS officers put trail cams out. Just another possibility.
If the public land is a wilderness area, I think they are illegal. Other than that, why not? Someone out there has pictures of me dancing like King Tut in front of his camera...
How are trail cameras on public land different than being on cameras at major intersections, grocery stores, public government buildings, etc?
My thoughts, wherever you're hunting, someone else knows about that spot.
I've never put any cams on public land. If I did they would be locked up as best as I could do. I've heard all kinds of horror stories coming from other states about to many cameras.
I wonder how many outfitters use cams?
To my knowledge it's not illegal on public land.
Good grief. No, it is not illegal to put trail cams anywhere on public lands. CPW has hundreds of cameras out every day. They watch certain trails, roads and use them to watch illegal activities like grows. If you spend any amount of time out in the woods, you and your truck have had their picture taken.
And you like that? I can't stand them. Its bad enough your getting tagged around town every other minute, now the same is happening in the place you go to get away from it all.
I'd be the first in line to sign a ballot to make them illegal to use once the hunting season starts.
"We had this deer/bull on camera and decided to slip in". Whats next?
Hate them!
Cracks me up. I don't like using trail camera so lets make them illegal. Or Stixx I am anti ATV so lets make them illegal to use or close any road they can be used on.
It is not that different than those that don't like guns so let make them illegal.
Cazador I see you are affraid to use your name in your profile.
Interesting subject. I had a situation where I had a great limited tag. I found the perfect water hole. It wasn't on any of my maps, it had enough cover to give elk protection for mid-day visits, and it was easy to sneak in and out of without disturbing much. The freshly thrashed trees and wallowing sign in the mud all pointed this being a great spot.
I was smiling ear to ear when I found it until I see there is a trail cam hung. I certainly didn't want to screw up another guy that drew the tag so I avoided hunting it. After a few days it was obvious the owner wasn't hunting (one road into the area, season almost over). So we sat it a couple times but the perfect place set-up was right in the cameras view, which would have been weird, so we set-up on the "wrong" side.
No one ever came to hunt it so maybe it was a rifle hunter coming later or just someone wanting to get some wildlife pics. But, by putting it there, it sorta claimed that spot. Yes, we were free to hunt it all we wanted, but not without feeling like we were being impolite or willing to be on camera if we set up in the best place.
Not sure how I feel about them. I'm a live and let live guy on most issues, but I also would rather not be on camera without knowing it. I expect it while driving in town or in a store but it feels sorta odd to have your pic taken out in the woods off the beaten path.
That said, I put a couple up one year over some wallows on public.
A phone number or email address on the camera would be handy.
John,
If you've been on this site for any amount of time, you know who I am. I used to contribute quite a bit.
It just so happens I can't enter text into the first and last name fields under the registration page on my phone.
Glunt, I had something similar. I actually viewed the photos and saw me coming and going several times. Made me want to punt the thing.
I'm not in favor of banning anything. I am in favor of banning people who ride atv's illegally. Same with guns or just about anything
Since there seems to be some confusion, I'll add these comments.
Regarding trail cameras in designated wilderness areas:
"Section 4(c) of the Wilderness Act states that “there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road … no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no land of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation” within wilderness."
It has been determined that trail cameras are "installations". Like many rules, LEOs may or may not enforce them.
Also, If you ever hunt Montana you should know that they are okay to use before the season opens, but not after:
"It is illegal for a person to possess or use in the field any electronic or camera device who's purpose is to scout the location of game animals or relay the information on a game animal's location or movement during an commission-adopted hunting season."
I ran into a guy last November who lives where I deer hunt out on the plains. He said his son and a friend both were ?bowhunting? deer. He said his kid & friend had 40+ cameras set out and that they spent most days managing/checking them. He added, "I don't think they are doing much hunting." I agreed.
Carnivore are really try to say a trail camera is more of a "stucture or installation" than some one setting up a camp in the wilderness? Gees
The cameras don’t bother me at all. I guess I don’t really care if I show up on somebodies camera.
I'm more concerned about the guys who hang multiple stands and leave them up all season. I know in some units it’s tough to find a place to put a stand because it seems as if every other tree is already “taken.”
That definitely ranks higher on my frustration meter than a cam. Although, I’ve never experienced what Glunt describes above and could see that being frustrating as well.
I agree with Dirt D about the stands. I once scouted a piece of public land one morning and found about a dozen stands hung in one outing. There was lot's of deer sign, and I saw a few deer, however I never returned to hunt. I was afraid I would come in to set up a climber next to an existing stand, and have someone hunting within a few yards of me. It would have been a bummer for the other guy to come in to his hang-on stand, and me be there already.
I feel pretty much the same about camera's. Some public land I hunt has a law that you must remove a stand if you are not going to be hunting in it within a set time (say 24 or 48 hours). Maybe that would be ok for camera's also. It does feel like some people like to "claim" their spot and hold it all season.
With all that said, I prefer to hunt, and not get bogged down with a lot of new regulations to worry about.
tramper, who can afford 40 cameras? That's right I forgot most the ranchers on the plains also have a few oil/gas wells on their property giving them that monthly royalty check.
tree stands are required to be removed every day when on FS/BLM. if left more than 24 hours, they are abandoned property. at that point ownership is questionable, does the FS now own it? property left illegally on public lands can and sometimes is confiscated by the FS.
not sure how trail cameras fit into it, but anything left on public lands is subject to not being there when the "owner" returns.
So if you leave your base camp for a few days to go to your spike camp your base camp is not yours when you return?
Good point kadbow. There's a guy on the Grand Mesa that leaves his camper at the end of Eagleston Lake almost all summer. I guess after 24 hours we could just go in and help ourselves then?
it is not illegal to have a camp. after the 14 day maximum stay, it is illegal. at that point the FS can and has confiscated camps. people put camps out in the summer to "hold" their spot, common, but not legal! in most places the FS will not do anything about illegal camps, treestands, or anything else.
a treestand is not legal to be left in the woods. a trail camera?
While I do not have any out currently, they can be a great way to not only get to know what animals are living in the area, they can also extend your season.
If it's not yours, leave it alone!
That's what I say COLO. If it's not yours leave it alone! Although would be neat to copy the pictures off their SD card onto the internal memory of my camera and then put the SD card back into the trail camera.
Does anyone have any pictures of people you have caught on trail cameras? I always thought it would be neat to see guys caught on camera without knowing anything or anyone was watching.
I have thought about putting them up around my rental to see if there are more people living in the rental then is what on the lease. The reason is because I pay the utilities and in the last 3 months they are using an extra 50 gallons per day of water which is just about how much an extra shower is along with 4 flushes of the toilet, shaving, drinking, etc. But I don't know where to put it without them seeing it.
This pair of bears came down a bear trail below my stand on private property. Never did figure out who they were or what they were doing, but my local LEO determined that the lady was carrying a hand-held stun gun while the guy followed behind with the hogleg.
There's a fat naked hiker guy photo floating around on another thread. Hat, daypack, hiking shoes, nothing else.
USFS doesn't have the desire or resources to enforce anything anymore. Where I hunted this year, one area had camping limited to developed (pay) campsites. Yet there were people camped all over in pulloffs, meadows, etc.. I asked the USFS lady why I should pay to camp when others weren't, why this and the 14 day limit wasn't being enforced (guys had hunting camps in two weeks before season, still sitting there now in plain sight of the USFS people driving around).
Her response was that I should "do the right thing" and pay to camp because the USFS "needs the money". She also said "Maybe hunters don't like to obey rules like the general public". I went off on her about that, pointing out the illegal camps that were photographers, nature lovers, hikers, fishermen, etc.. She kept saying "You need to do the right thing", and "fines just make people angry". So I camped in a nice little secluded aspen grove and nobody bothered me for the two weeks I was there.
I could've had a camera on every tree in the nearby wilderness area and nobody official would've cared.
That's funny that she is carrying a stun gun.
Jaq, awesome pic and story that's hilarious. Maybe they are into some weird stuff, ya know?
As for the camping and USFS, its getting worse you are right. I could go on and on about the things i saw this year while bow hunting public with good road access. Can only imagine how bad it will be during pumpkin season.
I don't like the feeling that I'm being filmed 24/7 either. Sometimes ya gotta go when ya gotta go. You want to see yourself on youtube in that position? Just saw a news report that some jackazz ditched a drone (irretrievably) into a thermal pool in Yellowstone. Technology has far surpassed common sense (and decency), if you ask me.
This reminds me of a few years back. I was scouting my favorite area. I had seen a motorcycle illegally driven to the end of the trail, so I knew someone was up there. Got up to the meadows 20 minutes away and along comes a guy, who didn't see me. Like the guy above, only wearing boots....We were 30 yards apart and it was awkward for both of us. I'm not super uptight about the human body or gays for that matter so, not a real issue for me. He was a bit shifty and clearly wanted to get away.
Good Grief cnelk..., I could have done without that! Is that a selfie with your camera & tripod? ;-)
I think it's hilarious. I have never seen a naked hiker.
If I find a trail cam in the wilderness you can bet I will remove it. Like any other piece of trash I find while hiking I will assume it is trash left from years past. They aren't allowed as per regulations. Camps are allowed for 2 weeks. Start turning people in that are violating the rules and let them know they are violating them. Some people are just ignorant of the rules and will do the right thing. I know the forest service seems unwilling and understaffed but do the right thing anyway. It won't make you any friends but I want to make sure the wilderness stays wild and the forest stays clean. If you want to know what's out there spend some time out there. Prioritize what's really important to you.
You bumped up a 3 year old thread to tell everyone you are thief? Turn them, that is fine if you think they are breaking the law. But stealing a camera set up they may or may not being illegal depending on who you ask just makes you a thief. Do you also steal someone truck if is illegally parked?
Nothing like Debbie do gooder. Wfm you're a thief if you steal someone's camera. If you have a problem reach out to CPW and let the authorities handle it. Do you chase down speeders on the freeway? Unless you prefer to use any excuse to justify stealing which is what you're doing.
WFM are you that guys that drives in the left lane doing the speed limit with a dozen car stacked up behind him. "I'm doing the speed limit!"
I stumbled upon one in a very remote area in a wilderness area I scouted a couple weekends ago. We were 4 miles in on the trail, a half mile up a mountain in deadfall. I was sucking wind, looking like an idiot when I happened to look up and see the camera right on my face. Left a couple funny pictures for the owner and kept on my way.
Would be great to run into the guy when I'm out for my 10 day trip! Can only imagine what he'd think.
I intended to post a pithy comment about self-righteous assholes but then decided against it....
I am HOLIER THAN THOU!!!!
Just watched a news segment on flatearthers. OMG.
Hey Wes can you show me those regs you are referring to. I just spoke to a few officials who disagree with you. Also are you the Wes Miller from Denver? Since you are so confident, enough to confess being a thief I'm sure you don't mind letting me know.
Bet he wished he left this 3 year old thread alone!
This is why I hide another camera in a tree looking down at my primary camera just in case some prick stumbles into it.
Speaking of "pieces of trash" in the wilderness....
Gentlemen, as I grew up in a forest service family I have a very strong passion for wilderness. Since I am specifically talking about wilderness, which was created to keep wild places wild and free from the trash that seems to be left by those that seem to think they can do whatever the hell they want on public land. Sorry if you think I am a "holier than though" type, but if we don't leave the wilderness alone we will always be fighting for places to hunt and recreate.
If you "let people be" that are violating rules in public places you will eventually lose those places. Take a look at what is happening to Hanging Lake, Maroon Bells and the forest around those areas. They are being destroyed by people right in front of people that stand there and do nothing. CPW has nothing to do with the wilderness areas as far as regulations other than game management. How many of you pick up trash while hunting? I bet most of you pick up after yourselves and others. I wouldn't be getting my advice about wilderness areas from the CPW if I were you. Ask a forester, you may find one that says go for it but the foresters I grew up around that were part of the wilderness areas being designed and designated will tell you they are not allowed.
I knew there would be those that hate before knowing but posted anyway. Good luck to you guys and enjoy the forest responsibly so it is always open for future generations.
Born in Denver but you couldn't force me to live there now.
"Wilderness areas are managed by four federal land management agencies: the National Park Service, the U.S. Forest Service, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the Bureau of Land Management."
The Wilderness Act is well known for its succinct and poetic definition of wilderness:
“A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.” Taken directly from the act.
Take it how you want guys, I interpret it differently than some I'm sure.
I got some set and will not be back to check them till I start my elk hunt the last three weeks. Gonna get intell on elk and people! Just me.
How can you compare a trail cam hanging on a tree to overuse and abuse at hanging lake? There is no damage done to the environment from a trail cam. Wouldn't bother me a bit.
Can't see how destroying or unlawfully taking your neighbors property is ever cool or justifiable.
Wes - I think you need to re-read the laws before you take them into your own hands. It's a camera, cameras are allowed in wilderness areas. This is not the same as leaving trash behind - by their very purpose it is something you are planning to come back and get.
Depends on how it's attached to the tree grasshopper, screwed or with a strap? Where does it stop? You let someone get away with it once? Twice? Maybe next time they do even more damage. I firmly believe that most people are good stewards of the land they hunt. Most damage is caused by only a few people. But when everyone starts to hear they can get away with something then everyone is doing it and the damage will is done. Many times nearly irreversibly.
Lake Powell had rules about waste and folks ignored them. Soon it became Lake Foul and the park service had to start enforcing the rules. Thankfully it isn't as bad as it once was but letting a few do what they want leads to negative results for the rest of us.
I will admit to shooting off my mouth about taking a camera if I saw one. First of all I have never seen one that wasn't on private property and never look for them either. I know an outfitter uses them where I hunt and since he is using them for business, which I'm told by the forest service is not legal in the wilderness, I said what I said. There are strict rules regarding wilderness that are not so on other forest lands. Follow them or not, that is your path.
If someone from the forest service is telling you they are illegal, that is interesting. I don't interpret the rules that way at all. I will say that I've gotten a lot of different answers from USFS and DPW employees, depending on who answers the question. Last year I contacted USFS about road access into an area and got opposite answers from two different people about which roads were closed and which were open. When I got there they were both wrong, all the gates were open and people were freely using the roads.
Just my $.02 that you may want to research the legality further.
The point is Joe Schmo citizen has NO AUTHORITY to take the law into his own hands as he interprets it and seek to enforce it by vandalizing or stealing the property of another.....no matter if it is in the NF or on private. You can call the law, you are not the law. Step back, take a deep breathe........you have no authority to act beyond notifying the authorities who can.
BHA are looking for members just like WFM. Stixx send him a link to sign up!
As Vids mentioned it depends on who you talk to.
I will admit I was wrong about boasting about taking someone else's property no matter where it is located, a mistake on me to even mention that. I apologize for getting upset and spouting off at the mouth about it as well.
I spoke with several forest service rangers this morning and last night. I got two different answers, one from the current ranger and one from a retired ranger.
The current ranger stated that the supervisors position is as follows, and I am paraphrasing from what the ranger told me she was told by the supervisors office.
"Game cameras are allowed on the forest due to the lack of manpower needed to enforce the rule of 72. Which is the general rule the forest service uses to determine if something has been abandoned on the forest. It takes us months to go through the process of finding out who owns the property as well as how long it has been there. Since we don't have the resources to do that we will allow them. However, anything attached to a tree other than with a strap or rope such as screws, nails or other destructive means is illegal and should be brought to our intention as it is illegal to be destructive of forest property."
So I will leave your cameras alone and hope that this isn't something that leads to further arguments down the road.
Just so we are all very clear, I was wrong.
"POS", nice!
Wes, I give you props for taking the initiative to reach out in regards to the regs, secondly admitting that you were wrong. It's not easy to change your outlook on things. I'm glad that you won't be taking anyone's cameras. I believe at least 99% of the people here are stewards of the land and extremely passionate about it's preservation. I know for a fact that I clean up other folks trash on NF and Wilderness constantly as do others here. We all work extremely hard and put in time into this hobby and don't use trail cameras as a cheat or easy out for scouting but as a means of connecting to the outdoors.
+1 Well Strung. I used to be a Park Ranger and professional park naturalist. I've backpacked in wilderness areas all over CO and WY. I also hunt in wilderness areas occasionally. There are jerks in any endeavor in life. The "bell curve" of human behavior. As we all know, regulating behavior in the wilderness is pretty much futile unless people want to obey the rules. There are abuses everywhere and LEOs are spread way too thin. All we can do as ethical outdoorsmen is try to educate people and help clean up after those who are inconsiderate slobs. Of which the number seems to be growing. There are problems in the backcountry. A few cameras here and there are not problems.
I think this is an interesting thread, and I hope we can agree that there is probably a limit to what is reasonable. I was just out scouting by foot in beautiful country that happens to have a large ranch inholding – completely surrounded by national forest. The ranch owner has placed cameras on public lands in sturdy mounts drilled into trees, attached to solar panels and with antennas. Soon after I happened to walk by one of them, the ranch manager buzzed down the road to say hello and asked how I had accessed the area (all completely legal via public lands and a good gps.) He then said the owner had asked him to come check me out, indicating that I was being watched, in real time, on public land, on a live video feed. Can we maybe agree that maybe that's not cool? And at what point is all that crap in a tree (solar panel, cord, old-tv-style antenna trash that I can at least collect and deliver to the assumed owner? ). What's the thought on protecting my own privacy and gently resting a limb up against it? I'm not sure what the right approach is, but there's a point where it seems less like wildlife watching and more like intimidation and claiming territory.
Old thread, but very interesting that they are watching live. If they have the system up during hunting season and are hunting or running hunts I would think they are breaking the law. This allows for them to monitor game in real time which is illegal. I would contact CPW and tell them about it. I also know that it is illegal to build any permanent structure big or small on most public land. information you have
What is you shoot at a grouse that is sitting in frobt of a trailcam and accidentally hit the cam? Do you find out who owns it to pay them for the damage?
Call the CPW and report it. If they don't do anything build a "blind" out of the surrounding vegetation right in front of the trail cam. There's nothing illegal about that.
I've had tree stands stolen ( West Virginia and Ohio) but no cameras. I use cheaper cameras on public land and try to cover them with brush.
4 year old thread and I'm guessing most opinions haven't changed...
Yeah - the OP issue has probably long been resolved. But I am curious how the law looks at anything "left behind" on public lands. How long before it's considered "abandoned"? We once found the remains of a cached tent that had obviously been there for years. I'm sure we could have removed it under those conditions - it was just too much hassle under the circumstances (several miles in).
