Contributors to this thread:
I'm a climbing stick man Howatt - less work and more safety I guess.
Time invested and mobility along with confidence in climbing would be my deciding factors.
Never tried the bolt thing.
I've snapped tree steps off before when it gets cold. Would never want to get gutted by them either if you did have a fall. I will never use them again.
One issue that I see with the "sliding fit" installation on the bolts is that you may lean back a little (intentionally or otherwise) while climbing, and will need to hold onto a bolt to keep from falling backwards off the tree. With only a sliding fit, the bolt could come right out of the hole. That's a dangerous situation.
Instead of bolts with a sliding fit, maybe 8 inch lag screws would be better. Drill a pilot hole and then screw the lag screws in. They wouldn't be available in grade 8, though, so I don't know how well regular lag screws would hold up in the cold. Overall, though, I would stay away from any type of bolts/screws/tree steps. I much prefer climbing sticks.
IMO BAD idea. I wont even use screw in steps anymore. I slipped off one a few years back and was luck I only needed 14 stitches went I was sliced by a lower step.
If it's your land get a bunch of ladders and put them there for the season. After Christmas I bought some 20' Ameristep ladders for $28 each. I also got a 10 pack of keyed aliked cable locks.
BW +1..High risk of killing the tree as well. Sticks are cheap, buy in bulk and be safe.
Sounds like you have already made up your mind to go ahead and try this. I think the reason your not getting any response from people that have tried it is because no one has. Seems very dangerous.
"To reiterate COST has nothing to do with this."
You own the land, put in multiple stick trees or ladder stands and leave them since cost is no issue.Blowing on a straw to get my wheelchair down the hallway trumps any other perceived convieniance.
Typically there is 1 perfect tree for a given setup, killing it cause you can burn it is shortsided imo.
Have used this method before and it works. Not a huge safety concern other than finding the holes at 'o dark thirty in the am. Then again, not sure how agile of a guy you are either. -I would not recommend for a lot of guys out there and no longer do it myself as there are sticks that are easily portable and can strap to my back with no problem. Bottom line is that I will sacrifice more for just a little safety than I used to. ;)
It works fine, you drill at an angle so the bolts are anlgled slightly upward. It will take a bit of trial and error to see the exact angle that works for you. I believe this is what the tree hopper system is was.
This is nothing new..... been there, done that..... First there was the Tree Hopper, drill...... used with bolts.....
Than there was sky steps, removable steps, lag bolts stay in tree.......
These have all failed at one time in the past........
Best sticks I ever used was Lone Wolfs, got them years ago........
I now hunt mostly on the ground, only because of challenge, and effectiveness under certain conditions,,,,,,,
Only time I came down a tree, was with a bolt, that gave out at the wrong angle, and I had to slide down fast, hugging a burr tree..... no thanks.......
been there done that......... stay well
"Glad to hear people are past silly comments worrying about Mr. Wallace's trees."
Hey Ronny, who is Mr Wallace? Is he the guy who owns the property you lease ;). You did a nice job on his barn this summer. What is his first name?
Interesting. I always worried qbout the bolts/pegs spinning in the holes as weight was applied.
"Ive got a couple sets of climbing sticks and would think bolts/pegs would actually be faster and easier to carry in/out"
So what you are saying is that climbing stick are bulky, heavy and hard to set up free hand. Sounds like a crossbow.....
I hear you on the weight.....I much rather carry 2 gallons of corn than two gallons of apples because they are lighter;)
Howat was your "intent" to talk about crossbows again with the term bolts used in the header? Another crossbow thread... nice job. LOL
I have used grade eight bolts for years on my own land for years.
In 2010 I used my last tree peg. I had one pull out as I was going up a tree to hang a stand. The result was I slid down the tree and caught my left on another peg. My left hand needed 7 stitches and nearly surgery if the ligaments had been hit, it was very close. Now I use climbing sticks and ladder stands. Both are easier to use. Both cost a little more but if you have a hospital bill your saving are eaten up fast.
If you are going to do this use lag bolts, not machine bolts. If you can still find any the old power pole lag bolts work great.
I use Sky Hooks, lag bolt with a step that slips over it. I use 4 hinged steps on the bottom and the rest are the one piece solid ones because I don't trust the hinge type above about 6 feet. These are no longer on the market but can still be found on ebay or craigslist.
Seems like the risk outweighs the reward. No deer is worth the risk of slipping off a "peg" or a screw coming out of the tree. No I haven't tried this, because it is too risky. I have met a few hunters who have had steps come out of trees and fallen 10'+ and are still recovering.
Make sure to sign up for Obamacare before you try this.
I'm sorry... just copied and pasted the words you sent me on another thread. So ya just slammed yourself Mr Bandwidth.
"Not! but almost a nice try gritty#2. "
Ronny (Howatt) is so consumed and fixated on Gritty he can't make a post in a thread without talking about him. I think its funny as hell but that's just me. I find it funny that an adult male can be so consumed with another adult male (not that there is anything wrong with that.)
Those words above are also a copy and paste from Ronny. Just like Pasq was able to do. So hypocritical at times.
What a block buster idea...A drill...Some pins...and no one can get up and steal your stand..You really are genius...folks have been doing this for 40 years... I first did it with a hand brace...Used rebar..great job coming up with a new idea that is 40 years or so old.
OK guys I got the PM's and thanks for the support. It didn't affect me with him saying my posts were meaningless because most of the time they are, as are his.
I took some of your advice and looked some stuff up. Here is what I got:
I think Howatt is trying to throw us a curve ball with the "C" as his first name. I found a Richard Wallace who happens to be a big land owner with lots of trees and pretty sure its legit.
Does anyone know him to be a Dick? It would help me in the investigation.
Howatt, I would just go ahead and do it. Done with common sense it's perfectly safe.
Howatt, I am not worried about the strength at all, more worried about spinning or maybe not getting one shoved in all the way, or the tree starts to crack a little and there aren't any teeth to hold the bolt in. Or whatever might happen. If you really insist on using bolts then just use them for the first 4-6 bolts then switch to lags or something else above. that way you stay safer up high and keep the trash hunters from getting up your tree without bringing their own bolts.
FIP, now that is really damn funny stuff there!
Messing with Sasquatch!!!
Jeff.... that's why we choose rebar instead of bolts...rebar is not round perfectly and has a surface on it boots would grab. As well ass the wood....No rocket science here. Pretty common sense shtuff
Fip... that's a lot more than 220 lbs in that bag..LOL...lookin more like 3 bills to me.
Nice pics
Treehopper used to make a hand drill and a drill bit for a cordless drill specifically for this purpose (they may still make them). I have one and have used it a bit. When you drill the hole, you drill it so the bolt sits at a slight upward angle. It works very well in hard trees. It doesn't work nearly as well with softwoods as the bolt tends top move a little at least under my 230lb frame.
I've seen it all. Was hunting in SD and the owner/outfitter used 10 penny nails for steps. A few slightly bent on me while climbing. Also had buddies use bolts on some stands at a place in ND where they hung 20-40/stands for the outfitter. I never hunted out of one of those. I'm curious what the reasoning is behind using bolts. Initial setup doesn't seem quick and easy. Leverage to drive the bit in would seem difficult on green wood while ascending a tree. I would think if the bolts are left in the tree for the season or even a month, the hole will start to seal up and removing them could be a chore. If left in the tree indefinitely the bolt will start breaking down and break. I've seen the hardened steel screw in steps break, right at the point where the bark is. They don't rust, but turn black.
If it's to save money I would consider an alternative. The only screw in steps I use are those thick Gorilla ones. They used to be called EZ step or something back in the day.
Dont kid yourself, I had a EZ folder snap on me too years ago........
Maybe I got the name wrong, these weren't folding ones.
I had screw ins snap too... Both folding and solid..I rarely use them anymore and opt for climbing sticks..but back in the early 70s hardly anyone made anything... no stands or sticks.or my Summit climber.. I had a full Barrel of railroad spikes I use to use as well..now try hammering those in a tree while hanging on a home made rope lineman type support..lol...worked best 8 poplar...
Then went to a hand brace and 8 or 10 inches of rebar drilled those holes on a angle downward slightly..used a bit just a touch bigger then the rebar..sometimes you needed to tap them in.. but once you used the set a few times they came right out and you could pull a few out and stash nearby to protect your homemade hangons..those defiantly were the good ol days...
knife2sharp, I posted it a couple of times. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH COST/PRICE/MONEY (This whole sentence to Knife is a Richard comment that wasnt needed)
Bigwoods, the treehoper pegs are for sale but I THINK WAY OVERPRICED FOR WHAT THEY ARE SELLING and I already have everything he is selling. I might give this a go this weekend.
Ummmm ok... that was clear. Not about cost/price/money but yet you mention bang for the buck and being overpriced for what they are selling but you have everything he is selling.OK Clear now
" This has nothing to do with cost/price/money."
I am not aware of 1 landowner where cost is not a factor that would do this. The Big Game Legacy stand is on sale at Cabelas right now for $175. Why would a landowner mess with pegs, which are less safe anyway vs. simply climbing into great preset stands? You must not have any relatives or friends that hunt your land as that would be even less safe.Stands should be built so a 12 yo or a 72 yo can safely and comfortably use them without being cirque de solei ready. The motivation for pegs as a landowner is what again?
Rebar sounds better than a bolt, either one should probably have a good size washer welded on the end to prevent slipping past it and to give your foot something to 'feel' if you step too far out on the step.
15% solution of hydrochloric acid would work good to clean off any grease or other mess from them and eliminate any smells. Used that on my wolf traps and works really good. Still plan to boil and dye them tho.
Agree, put steps close together so anyone can safely use them. I have seen some over 3 feet apart, what are those people thinking. There must be monkeys hunting in that area.
being cirque de solei ready HAHAHAHAHA Thats funny!I got a vision reading it.
They were called EZY climb rod screw in tree step. I read through your posts again. I do not forsee this being easier in the long run, as like I stated, the holes will start to close up either around the bolt or the open hole. What happens if you haven't hunted a stand in a couple weeks and you don't have your drill with you? I would not want to always carry a drill or be using one, due to noise, every time I go out.
I presume since you don't aren't goint to leave them in and are going with a mobile setup, you must not have enough stands to cover all your spots, or you are afraid of theft. Or do you plan on having multiple stands up and just one set of steps to carry around between the stands?
I still have Sky Hooks and would typically use them for the bottom 4-6 steps. I like to hunt high, 20-30 feet, and when I used them the entire ascent, I did not like trying to hang steps in the dark while trying to climb the tree. It wasn't easy to see the bolt and I can't image finding a hole would be any easier. The part of climbing that is most safe is being able to have 3 points of contact at all times and you can't do this while inserting steps or pegs above you. There was times when I'd get to my tree and forgot to carry in the steps.
" but neither the ladders nor sticks lend themselves to this setup/thicket and these twisty trees."
Typically a twisty tree has a few trees around it that work just fine for a ladder stand. At some height your twisty tree needs to be straight enough for a platform anyway. Idk, maybe you have found a twisty tree hollow freak of nature anomaly.
Just a comment for those inclined to use metal in trees. The trees may be yours and you may not worry about "your" safety, but remember the sawyer and guy behind the multi-thousand $ highspeed band saw. You risk killing somebody in the future (not everybody uses metal detection systems) well after you have passed. In general, that is reason #1 why you don't put metal into a tree. Damage to equipment is one thing and can be fixed. A 20 foot section of blades running at several thousand RPMs can do some serious cutting when flying through the air. Innocent people cannot be replaced.
I think removing them after the season will be a chore. But let us know how it goes and maybe you can get into the bolt/step business and make millions. Or we can include them in future 'worthless products' threads.
November I think "Howats" trees may be found in the make believe enchanted forest. Hence the twisted tree comment. Kind of like the "Legend of Howats Hollow" ?
"(not everybody uses metal detection systems)"
^ Sounds like a choice that's neither wise nor safe.
Treefarm, if Howatt does it the way I have in the past, you actually don't leave the steps in. They aren't like the old screw in steps. The hole you drill is slightly larger than the step and the step slips snuggly in the hole. You take them out when you descend.
I bought the drill from treehopper, and the bolts from Fastenal (the ones treehopper recommended-I can't recall the grade)
Wow, this board hasn't changed a bit...sounds more like a teenage girl forum than a hunter forum.
As to the question at hand, don't do it. If you insist on some form of tree peg, buy the screw in types. That way, when they fail, you will have someone to sue for your injuries. Only partial sarcasm there because I have seen many examples of tree peg failure lawsuits.
If you insist on using the bolts, go a little longer. 4" sticking out of the tree may be fine for small feet in tennis shoes, but it seems too small for cold weather hunting with boots on.
Lastly, spend the money (and it is about money here) to get a good set of climbing sticks and then get in shape so it won't be so hard to haul them into the woods.