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The Future of Archery is Upon Us
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
10orbetter 23-Oct-14
Bloodtrail 23-Oct-14
therealdeal 23-Oct-14
youngcd12 23-Oct-14
brewcrewmike 23-Oct-14
Zinger 23-Oct-14
Bigwoods 23-Oct-14
happygolucky 23-Oct-14
Bucks_n_Gobblers 23-Oct-14
WildBill 23-Oct-14
Zinger 23-Oct-14
WildBill 23-Oct-14
TrapperJack 23-Oct-14
WildBill 23-Oct-14
happygolucky 23-Oct-14
WildBill 23-Oct-14
Ravenjake 23-Oct-14
LTLJimmy 23-Oct-14
Naz MacBook 23-Oct-14
therealdeal 23-Oct-14
thesquid 23-Oct-14
RUGER1022 23-Oct-14
Bow Crazy 23-Oct-14
10orbetter 23-Oct-14
10orbetter 23-Oct-14
10orbetter 23-Oct-14
Pasquinell 23-Oct-14
Pete-pec 23-Oct-14
Dampland 23-Oct-14
happygolucky 24-Oct-14
razorhead 30-Oct-14
Hammer 30-Oct-14
From: 10orbetter
23-Oct-14

10orbetter's embedded Photo
10orbetter's embedded Photo
I am not criticizing the kid. He was within the law and his rights. However, take a very hard look at the implications of this. What is wrong with this situation? Is there even anything wrong with this? Is this proper mentoring? Like it or not, crossbows are here to stay.

Rare albino deer bagged by 11-year-old Michigan's Gavin Dingman shoots white animal with crossbow on hunting trip with his father; story generates wide range of emotional feedback

October 22, 2014 by Pete Thomas albino deer Gavin Dingman, 11, poses with albino deer; photo via Facebook

An 11-year-old Michigan hunter last week killed a rare albino deer while on a hunting trip with his father.

This week, the story is generating a wide range of emotional feedback on Facebook.

Gavin’s father, Mick Dingman, told WZZM 13 that he and his son had spotted the white deer several times in recent the years, and that other hunters had talked about trying to bag the animal.

An admittedly nervous Gavin used a crossbow from 30 yards to harvest the 12-point trophy buck, and the news quickly spread in hunting circles.

“He kind of feels like a rock star right now,” Mick Dingman said. “Everyone is calling, all of the hunting shows and hunting magazines.”

Sentiments being expressed on the WZZM 13 Facebook page, where the albino deer story has been shared more than 4,000 times, are somewhat mixed.

“He should have let it live. There are plenty of others out there,” reads one of hundreds of comments.

“If it’s rare, why the hell would he kill it?” reads another.

“I’m fine with hunting, just hate the ‘Hey look, it’s different, let’s shoot it’ ideas. Shoot it with a camera and let the unique one live,” reads yet another.

Deer-hunting in Michigan is an extremely popular pastime, so it’s not surprising that so many wrote in defense of Gavin Dingman.

“Get over it. The law says it’s legal. Back off the kid!!! Way to go kiddo!!” reads one comment.

“He paid good money for his license. He can use it for anything HE chooses, ” reads another. “Whether it be a brown deer or an albino buck, the state of Michigan gave him permission to kill it. Leave the kid alone. He did nothing wrong. He harvested a great trophy.”

Some of the commenters criticized WZZM 13 for posting the story on Facebook, opening Gavin to criticism.

“WZZM should stick with reporting news, not trying to make an 11-year-old boy feel guilty for shooting a deer, during deer season,” reads one comment.

Albino deer and leucistic deer (not a true albino) possess genetic defects that cause the white pigmentation.

Some native cultures revere the white animals, and believe that they possess the spirits of ancestors.

This story brings to mind the killing last October of a rare albino “spirit moose” in Nova Scotia, Canada.

Three hunters involved in that expedition were harshly criticized on social media sites, and ultimately issued a formal apology to the Mi’kmaq people.

It’s unclear whether any native groups have spoken out against Gavin Dingman’s killing of the white deer in Michigan.

The boy’s description of his big moment: “My dad was just like, ‘Take a deep breath. Are you sure you can take the shot? If you’re not 100 percent, we don’t want to injure it.’ ”

The family plans to pay a taxidermist to create a full body mount of the deer.

WZZM 13 cites a report that claims that one out of 20,000 deer are born albino.

From: Bloodtrail
23-Oct-14
Would anyone feel better if he shot it with a rifle, bow or a muzzle loader? I suspect some might!

Apparently in the great state of Michigan one can shoot a true albino deer - legally.

If it was done legally and within the framework of the season - congradulations young man!

Somehow our society both hunting and public, places more "value" on mutants or in this case a white deer. A white deer is only a genetic defect as stated above.

Here in Wisconsin that same deer is protected. And some may ask "why"?

If what this young person did was legal and apparently it was, I'm fine with it and the time he spent with his Ftaher in the field that day!

From: therealdeal
23-Oct-14
Good for him. who cares what anyone else thinks.

For those of you who think you will change peoples minds about hunting, trapping, etc. Forget it! these whacko nut jobs are against us and will always be against us. They are clueless, most are hypocrites as they eat meat, or they have when they were raised. If it wasn't for meat they wouldn't be here! Pi$@ on them. If the kid would have had a video showing him pass on the buck and explaining he thought it should live because it was different, don't for a second think that even one of those anti whackos would have any less hate for you as a hunter. Wake up people! look what happened to the politically correct shit that has taken place in this country so far. You give them an inch they take a mile. F them.

From: youngcd12
23-Oct-14
I recently watched a documentary on Netflix called The Private Life of Deer and they talked about the albino deer a little bit, speaking of how incredibly rare it is. They also said North America has about 30 million deer on it compared to 1 million just a decade ago.

The report that WZZM cited claims 1/20,000 which would be .00005 so doing the math .00005(30,000,000) would roughly be 1,500 albino deer in North America. That's pretty rare..

From: brewcrewmike
23-Oct-14
Another thread crashes and burns ...

From: Zinger
23-Oct-14
Congrats to the young man on a great trophy!

younggcd12, I wonder what % of deer are 200" deer yet no one would say they shouldn't be shot - OK the anti hunters still would.

From: Bigwoods
23-Oct-14
Good for him!!

From: happygolucky
23-Oct-14
Big time congrats to the hunter. Great bow kill although the weapon would not matter at all!

23-Oct-14
Congrats to the kid!

Man, people complain about bullying all the time but this kid from reading comments on the articles I have seen - is just that! ADULTS bullying a KID!

It was a legal hunt! Just because 'you' wouldn't shoot it doesn't make it wrong!

I posed the question to a couple friends...if legal would you shoot it? What about a Piebald??

From: WildBill
23-Oct-14
I think this perfectly highlights the difference between "hunting," which focuses on getting out into nature and matching your wits with an animal, and whatever you want yo call this. Although perfectly legal, meaning the kid shouldn't be criticized or bullied, I don't think this fits within the spirit of "hunting."

From: Zinger
23-Oct-14
It doent fall in the spirit of hunting because he used a crossbow? Then I guess gun hunting isn't really hunting either.

From: WildBill
23-Oct-14
And I don't mean "whatever you want to call this" in a derogatory way, just that it is something other than what I would consider more traditional "hunting."

From: TrapperJack
23-Oct-14
Congrats to the kid and hope he finds many more years of bow hunting no matter what type of weapon he chooses!

From: WildBill
23-Oct-14
No specifically because he used a crossbow, but everything together. I also consider bow hunting and gun hunting as separate disciplines so I should have clarified.

From: happygolucky
23-Oct-14
"I don't think this fits within the spirit of "hunting." "

What is the spirit of hunting? Please define that for us. I'm guessing using bait is not hunting. Shooting from a tree stand or condo is not hunting. Using a compound, xbow, or gun is not hunting. Perhaps hunting only exists if you use trad gear wearing a loin cloth and hunting off the ground?

This KID is frickin' 11 years old and made a successful kill on a great animal in a 100% legal manner. He deserves nothing but kudos.

From: WildBill
23-Oct-14
I don't think it can be precisely defined, but I think there's something to be said about using minimal advantages that is exciting and rewarding. I have no problem with people using whatever legal advantages they can. It's their choice. I also agree the kid deserves nothing but kudos because he was successful in his hunt. My original post was simply that this encapsulates pretty much everyone's various debates on multiple threads re crossbows, antlers, etc. I was simply stating my view without trying to disrespect any others, but apparently that's not how it was taken.

From: Ravenjake
23-Oct-14

Ravenjake's embedded Photo
Ravenjake's embedded Photo

From: LTLJimmy
23-Oct-14
Very interesting topic on many levels . When I saw this picture I had a vision . There was a huge fire . Inside the fire there were pictures . A 8x10 picture of each Archery Pioneer . The fire was burning out of control . There were men and boys, girls and women all dancing wildly around the fire . Each one was holding a cross bow in one hand and a rack in the other . They were celebrating something , I’m just not sure what it was .

This is toxic and evil I believe there is bad medicine in this , nothing good will come of this .

Maurice Thompson Will Thompson Art Young Saxton Pope Howard Hill Glen St Charles Fred Bear Ben Pearson Ann Weber Hoyt Roy Case Many others. There stories should be required reading for everyone that hunts especially during the archery season .

From: Naz MacBook
23-Oct-14
Congrats to the young man on his legal kill! That said, am glad they're protected in WI, "inferior" or not.

Crossbow proponent James Kroll stated that crossbows may get youngsters interested in hunting and they may eventually take up bow hunting. Some might, but others with the crossbow investment may just stick with it. Time will tell.

From: therealdeal
23-Oct-14
Hey Damon, you think the antis give a rats a$@ if it was a "bow" or "crossbow"? wake up! Your argument is so stupid. Even though in your demented mind you think the world will be able to keep vetical bows and horizontal bows separate, its not going to happen. To 95% of the public its bowhunting so get over it!

From: thesquid
23-Oct-14
happygolucky is right by saying -- This KID is 11 years old and made a successful kill on a great animal in A 100% Legal Manner. He Deserves Nothing But Kudos.

From: RUGER1022
23-Oct-14
Most of you know my feelings about crossbows . Fought long and hard to stop them . BUT I just purchased one for one of the grandkids . He and his new generation of pals think there really cool . Its what he wanted and he earned it . Now his diamond edge sits in the garage .Times are changing .

I'm very happy for the young man , god bless him . I wish we could all shoot any White deer . Their an oddity , not a species .

From: Bow Crazy
23-Oct-14
I have no issues with shooting an albino deer. Most, if not all, Wildlife Biologist have no issues as well. Having just said that, if that was me, I wouldn't have shown it off for all to see. Why throw it out there for others to criticize and get work up over. BC

From: 10orbetter
23-Oct-14
Some real good posts. Again, some have a real difficult time keeping it civil. Isn't that right therealdeal?

They were within their legal rights to harvest an albino in Michigan. Personally I would not have allowed my kid to do it. In harvesting that deer, I think the father unnecessarily put his kid in a very bad position.

It is clear the crossbow was pushed into service for the future generations of hunters. They are a technology dependent group. These kids will not be satisfied with what we use. They see it as old school. In most of their weapon based video games, it is a weapon of choice.

From: 10orbetter
23-Oct-14
Raven, testimonial posters like that are no different than celebrity testimonials for products, total B.S., a waste of time! No offense to you intended.

From: 10orbetter
23-Oct-14
Over 20 posts on Yahoo have been deleted for their threatening nature or general bullying. Did this dufus of a father not see this coming? How big of an idiot do you have to be to put your 11 year old through that. Hopefully he has not been on the net to see the comments. Though, I have my doubts.

From: Pasquinell
23-Oct-14
Shameful on many many counts. Not kids fault though it is what he has been taught. Yea and you know... that looks just like a bow.... lol. Too bad for sure

From: Pete-pec
23-Oct-14
It was legal. Cannot argue that.

I for once agree with 10. The deer is not only criticized by his enemies (anti hunters), but his peers as well. It was a no win on many levels. Crossbow, many don't agree with, and white deer many don't agree with. Both hunters and anti hunters can unite and agree this was wrong, even when it was completely legal.

Morality is the only factor that comes to mind. The deer is certainly genetically inferior. Why is an albino animal special other than its rarity? the same can be said about a giant high scoring deer, or a musky in the 50's, or a turkey with 2" spurs, or a 600 pound black bear, or as simple as a 12" bluegill. For some reason, the animal in us values a "trophy", and for some reason a white deer hits the heart and soul of so many people hunter or not?

Bow Crazy may have said it best, why throw it out there to get people worked up? I personally fall somewhere in the middle. Personally, I feel like it should walk, even though I cannot put a finger on my reasoning? With that said, I can congratulate him on a fine "trophy", because he was willing to take it, display it, and obviously look proud for taking it. Is that deer any different than any other animal that gives its life, so we can pose with "our trophy"? I don't know? A better question would be why a white deer might be wrong, yet we don't mind posing with another dead animal? What in our past makes us think that some measurement on an animal (antler inches, turkey spurs or beards, or length or weight of a fish), holds some sort of value that we feel the need to share it with like-minded people? Isn't it something to do with bragging rights, or ego? And why do some of us somehow differentiate an albino deer (which is simply a lack of pigment) from a deer with normal pigmentation?

Maybe the same reason some of us think this kill is somehow different, because of the chosen weapon.

Undoubtedly, anti-hunters see no difference at all between weapon or animal.

I hunt a CWD unit. I work with a friend who had white deer on the land he hunted. The land was once his families' farm that was sold to a large farming family. He would have shot one of these white deer (when it was legal), yet the new owners, and his own family was against it? Is there a good scientific reason why? Nope! Science might have said remove this genetically inferior animal from the gene pool? Would we look at a melanistic animal the same way?

It sure is odd, when we let our heart and our gut get in the way of the we think, because somehow we have no problem killing a deer that might be considered normal?

Quandary comes to mind.

From: Dampland
23-Oct-14
If it is legal in his state, and he took it legally, then congrats to the young hunter.

Personally, I think that albinos are a result of a genetic mutation/error, then they should be hunted and removed from the gene pool, instead of protect like they are here in Wisconsin.

I still don't understand all of the hate towards crossbow hunters. Crossbows are allowing youngsters, and women who may never bowhunt, a chance to get into this great sport/lifestyle. At a time when hunter numbers a re dwindling, and hunter recruitment is low, WE NEED any new ethical hunter we can get!

Plus as a person, who has had numerous major back, neck and shoulder injuries, I am sure that within the next 20 years, I will be forced to switch to a crossbow, or give up bowhunting. I don't want to listen to constant hatred from the uneducated/ignorant when that day comes.

From: happygolucky
24-Oct-14
Pete touched on it. We all like something different. You can pass deer, but you can't play catch and release. No replicas can be made without a cape and rack model to start from. Really weird racks on deer intrigue me more than a typical 8 per se. A piebald or albino are different. I would personally have no problem shooting that deer (where legal) and I would get a full body mount of it. I would be very proud of it and not care what others thought. The antis complain when you kill a skeeter. They could care less what weapon was used. It was a legal kill and that boy shoot be proud as heck.

Well stated Dampland.

From: razorhead
30-Oct-14
From the Iron Co library......... I wish their was as much passion for HABITAT, than the worry how some young man shot a deer..... LEGALLY......

From: Hammer
30-Oct-14
The weapon does not define the kid hunter. His great 30 yard shot on a unique deer and time afield with dad and the stupendous memories of this will define him as the hunter he is and will be moving forward.

The weapon he used should NEVER even be mentioned by "true pure hunters!" Only whiners and babies would mention such an awful thing when an 11 year old not only took a buck of a lifetime for color but also took a nice racked deer. I know many northern MI hunters who are good long time whitetail hunters and they have never killed a buck that nice.

I cant believe it but some crazies wished death on this kid and even said he should be shot with an arrow too. My god he is an 11 year old!

This kid is the man IMO! What a feat to not only bag a nice racked buck but to maintain his composure and take a nice racked "albino" deer to boot. I would have been quaking in my boots due to the color of that deer. Can you imagine?

Way to go kid. Pass on the hunting ethics and knowledge passed down to you. You are a great example of what all hunters should be.

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