Opinions Wanted
Connecticut
Ok first off I really don't want to turn this into a pissing match and secondly I really only want opinions of guys that have been hunting for at least 15 years and have been hunting CT for that long too.
In my opinion as many of you already probably know we have a problem here in CT with a decline in our deer population especially with the amount of mature bucks as compared to what we had here 10-15 years ago. I really want some opinions as to what others think about the number of nature bucks decreasing and if u think the number has decreased why so? I have a circle of friends that are all serious bowbunters and have been very successful in this state harvesting mature deer and we are all in agreement that the numbers just aren't there anymore. We all have some theories as to why the decrease but I want to her from others.
Buck to doe ratio way out of wack number one. #2, way too many tags available to harvest buck deer. #3, ridiculous on line tagging system in place. All we can do if you are a mature buck hunter is enjoy the ride and hunt hard for a shot on a mature buck . My 2c
Andy we share a lot of the same thoughts, keep them coming guys
yots to many deer shot ,to many smaller deer shot .More hunters and more land open .I don't agree with buck to doe I have seen more bucks than does this year your never going to get 2 to 1 in CT .
With the increasing predation from our growing black bear and coyote populations driving up the fawn mortality rate the recruitment of new deer isn't what it had been even 5 years ago.
Given that the CT DEEP cannot possibly be unaware of this trend (they are in year 2 I believe of a fawn mortality study) it is beyond inexcusable that no adjustment has been made to our liberal tag system.
Couple that with a mindset among too many hunters that you can practice a "stack them like cordwood" approach to hunting and you have come up with a recipe for what we have been seeing over the past few years.
I have been seeing a lot of bobcat and coyotes this year . There should be no replacement tags and there should be an antler restriction that everyone has to follow !!
I agree that there are too many tags available, throw in a healthy dose of predators that weren't around in in the same numbers 5 years ago and you have fewer deer growing up to be adults. I drive in the neighborhood of 50k per year, I'm all over the state and then some. Last year I saw very few deer killed on the highways and roads by comparison to other years and I don't recall seeing any bucks during the rut, I normally see many bucks crossing the roads during the rut. Could be coincidence. But I believe there is a significant decline in mature deer in this state.
I've been hunting for 45 years, so I guess I meet the qualifications.
I agree with all of the above plus I would add the loss of farm lands in some areas. These provided the edges that deer love.
I will also add that I'm very disappointed to learn that some hunters shoot as many deer as they can, and the brown is down attitude. I would rather pass on a doe or small buck to have a better herd tomorrow, but that's just me.
I agree with BBB on this one shooting does to feed ur family or so I can put meat in the freezer I agree with but with the amount of replacement tags and all the tagging garbage system we have in place now it's decimating the herds I will still shoot does but only for my family and I don't shoot more than 2 a yr on my property I hunt. I try to let the smaller bucks go and let them mature it's a mentality that many hunters today don't have. Just my 2c
I agree with everyones comments also but since the new tagging system was put in place that's when I've noticed the problem . Take area 56 gun season they give you four tags, end result is guys aren't leaving the woods anymore and have a buck tag in their pocket all the time.Also I beleive with the lack of acorns over the years the nutritional value hasn't been there so the does weren't putting out as many fawns.One way to fix it is reduce the tags and have a antler restriction.
I think there are still quite a few mature bucks left out there, the problem is way more hunters than there were 10-15 years ago causing the mature bucks to stay mostly nocturnal. With that being said, I do think there is there a reduction in number of those mature animals. Our predator population in ct has exploded coyotes have moved in a huge way and the bobcat population has made a drastic comeback. Fairfield counties earn a buck program is a joke. Guys shooting 3 button bucks and registering them all as does to get an additional buck tag. Large areas of land that are now availible to hunting that used to serve as a safe haven for those bucks. I wish we could go back to no baiting, 2 buck tags, no earn a buck. I would even love to see a point restriction. But I feel that will never happen CT isn't worried about qdm it's worried about drastic reduction/elimination.
Damn it! I only moved to CT 14 years ago(11/2000). Ask again next year so I can give my opinion.
Crow I will give you a year answer the question .
So it looks as though a lot of guys see the same things that I have and agree on a lot of the same problems. I think the number 1 problem is the # of buck tags. One can say that the number of buck tags has not changed in the past 15 years which is true but the number of guys in the woods has and the tag numbers have never been adjusted. The reporting of deer harvested in this state is an absolute joke and the DEEP is a bigger joke. Right now if you hunt with every weapon on state land and private you can kill 6 bucks, tell me what other states can you do that??? You know how many bucks a resident of IL, IA, KS, OH, IN can kill??? 2 Thats it 2!!!!! Why is CT so different? And all those numbers don't include earn a buck tags that are being used and abused all over the state not just in zones 11 & 12. I really don't think that we will ever have an antler restriction and I'm not totally sure if I want one, but what I do want is a big decrease in the number of buck tags! We have a pretty good thing here in CT that used to be much better and it's slowly disappearing. We as hunters have to fight to preserve what we have and put a stop to this mass murdering, we have to stand up and fight to change things and stop letting Kilpatrick and the rest if the idiots in Hartford ruin it for us! If CT only issued 1 buck tag to bowhunters and 1 buck tag for any weapon I think we could see a rise in our mature bucks going forward. If you tell a guy that he can only shoot 1 or possibly 2 bucks he will tend to be more selective, we also need to do away with this BS tagging system. I'm sure everyone knows at least 1 person who abuses the system, I know I know more then 1. Now think about just how many guys that is that are abusing it. Now the reason I said that I wanted people to respond who have been hunting CT for 15 years + is because we know what it was like, and btw Crow I think 14 years is close enough. I just didn't want guys responding that have only hunted for a few years and hunted CT for a couple and say how great it was not knowing what CT ever used to be like. I really think we need to do something to stop the madness!
I love all the responses but keep them coming and let me know what you guys think about what I stated.
I've seen a steady decline in the deer herd for the last 5+ years. I have many acres of private land to hunt in Zone 12 where I'm the only hunter. I won't shoot a doe in some areas because there are so few yet tags are unlimited? While I like a nice buck as anyone else, I foremost rely on the meat. If there aren't many does, I try not to but won't hesitate to shoot a young buck if needed.
I don't agree with the fact there are mature deer around and they're just nocturnal. I have six trail cameras out year around, am always looking while driving and get out as much as possible to scout after the season when snow is on the ground. I talk to others who spend many miles on the roads in areas I hunt too. Not many deer at all?
Reasons? Probably many contributing factors. Predators and over harvest are the biggest IMO. Also because I have cameras out 365 days a year, I see many does not pregnant and consequently very few fawns. I personally know of two hunters who don't work, hunt every day and shoot 20+ deer a year, legally!!! How many do this we don't know about is anybodies guess ...
I was fortunate to be hunting in CT during the booming years of the 90's when there were probably too many deer. The state of CT want all the deer dead because of pressure from insurance companies but still expects license money coming in. They also don't seem to check populations anymore? In all the hunting magazines I look at, they paint a picture of deer being behind every tree in CT and publish inaccurate herd numbers?
Unless the state changes the tag allowance, I think as hunters, we have to use common sense and manage the deer herd in areas we hunt ourselves.
Thank you Steve!
I think there are many factors in the decline of deer population in CT. I think that the numbers from 10-15 years ago were extremely high and while this was great for us hunters, the environment was suffering from the overabundance of deer.
As we can see from last year’s harvest reports, we (bow hunters) have surpass the number of rifle kills for the first time since native Americans ran this joint. I'll keep it short because everyone has already touched in most of the points. To summarize these is what we all agree on.
1. Too liberal bag limits. Unlimited in zones 11 & 12.
2. Bow hunting growing in popularity and increased number of bow hunters.
3. Predator numbers on the rise.
4. Unreliable reporting system.
5. Increased access to property, both private and public.
6. Indiscriminate harvesting of young deer.
I don’t think we will ever see the numbers we used to because in reality the goals of the DEEP are not in line with hunters goals.
I'm in zone 4s in mass. We get 2 buck tags and a doe lottery that I have never got once.. That's it... No bonus buck..no surplus tag. 2 antlered deer tags that's it.
Personally think increased predation has a lot more to do with lower deer hunters that hunters and or the tag system.
Also loss of habitat has a lot to do with it.
I have been hunting in CT since the Mid 80's and all of the spots I used to hunt are now developeded with McMansions.
I have never hunted in Fairfield county so can't comment on that.
The main factor for deer population decline in CT is the CONVENIENCE factor. Walking only 100 yards from the road in, baiting, taking shots from behind swing set, taking more than you need, broken reporting online system, killing just because is moving and it is brown, and leaving the guts behind which will attract coyotes.
I also agree we have a liberal number of tags. Personally I will be happy with just 2 deer per season. Everyone shoots mostly young bucks because they are easy to get. That is tipping the ratio more than anything else, along with less space, more predators and everything else said before.
What are the differences between current reporting system and the old one? How is the new system more prone to abuse?
Under the old system one had to tag the animal and then bring it to a check station for recording. How many hunters do you estimate skipping the check station step altogether given the lax DEEP ENCON presence?
Under the new system you have to tag the animal while transporting and/or in cool storage. The animal has to be reported online within 24 hours. Some hunters simply do not have the skill to use a computers and probably skip the online reporting step.
Few of us just plow along without tags and reporting no matter which system is used anyway. It is a matter of common sense, responsibility, education, and enforcement. In the end as I wrote in the beginning it is our CONVENIENCE that killed the deer of CT.
Also, the archery class and test are too easy allowing anyone to join the club while lacking experience. I believe it should be mandatory to have 2 sponsors in order to participate in training/testing. Also, both sponsors should tag along (one at a time) for 2 full seasons with the new hunter in order to ensure correct passage of rites to the next generation. If caught hunting in the woods without a sponsor the hunting privilege should be suspended.
How many times have any of you spoken directly to those you witnessed skipping the tagging/reporting system? How many times have you called ENCON to stop the abuse? I understand it is hard to do so when we are dealing with friends and/or family. It is easy to point fingers at other predators when our own responsibility is missing in action.
In the end it is up to all of us to bring forth the issues and propose solutions. Also, each one of us should take some responsibility along the way even we are not supported by DEEP.
Hardcore, totally agree with you. I started bowhunting in the state in 1985. Killed my first deer in 1990 with a bow. I pretty much have hunted exclusively with a bow because I enjoy the challenge of getting close to deer.
I too have seen the deer population take a sharp turn around 10-12 years ago. Here are what I believe are some causes to losing a whole age group of older deer:
Winters the last 4-5 years...very cold, lots of snow, low food, additional stress on the pregnant does = low fawn recruitment.
Predators killing fawns = low numbers of new deer adding to the age structure of the herd.
Guys killing too many deer (legal (in some cases), yes. Ethical, no). If you want more deer don't kill does (hint - they're the ones that have the babies)
Tagging system is broke. Too many guys not registering kills = state not knowing how many are harvested = bad state management practices, quotas etc.
State lands are mostly fully mature hardwoods....back in the late 80's and early 90's the state was logging many of these tracts of land, thus creating ideal deer habitat....the herd flourished and jumped to record numbers. Today = no edge, no cover, poorer deer habitat.
Food. Acorn crops the last 4-6 years have been dismal in the majority of the state. This is the first fall in a long time where the acorns are abundant. Hopefully it helps to sustain the deer throughout the winter and promotes does giving birth to twins/triplets and bigger antlered bucks next year.
Technology. Game cameras & more accurate bows. Guys can practice less, shoot better and feel confident that are going are to hit the kill zone. The advent of game cameras pretty much tell the story of what deer reside in the area, and when they move through. This is especially evident in areas where baiting it legal.
Baiting. Although it is legal in some parts of the state....I have found evidence that it happens outside of these areas. Now you are concentrating a number of deer in an area and have a higher likelihood that you can get a shot at killing one.
Bowhunters are at an all time high in CT growing. You know that your first few years hunting, you just want to kill something to gain experience. I believe with the increased numbers of new bowhunters in our ranks that this attributes to alot of "the first deer that gives me a shot I'll kill it." Nothing wrong with that, it's the nature of the game. But it is adding to a lower age structure of herd dynamics in certain scenarios.
The next step from here is go from this discussion to the DEEP and see what we can do for our future.
Bloodtrail you bring up a good point which I missed which is baiting, 100% it's happening all over the whole state and I believe that it's leading to more young bucks getting killed. If you look at the archery harvest reports over past years you will see that the kill is usually split about 50/50 between bucks and does. How is this possible when I believe our ratio is anywhere from 3-1 to 8-1. This absolutely blows my mind, even if you don't think it's as high as 8-1 in some areas there is absolutely no doubt that there are many more does then bucks. So out of all those bucks killed everyyear how many do u jus think are 2.5 and younger? I bet about 3/4 of them are. Yes I agree that there are many contributing factors to the problems some we can't control but some we absolutely can!
Less than 15 yrs here, but I'll weigh in with an opinion anyway...
I agree with a lot of what was written in this thread - predators are up, a few bad winters, the habitat has transitioned quite a bit, plus a lot of development, plus poaching and abuse of the tag system. Plus very generous bag limits.I've seen a big change in deer density in just 7 years.
My first season or 2, it was "oh my god, a deer shoot!!". I think all new hunters go through that.
I am lucky and have access to several private land parcels all over the state, and do not take that for granted.
Now I pass on a few, and prefer to harvest a mature doe or nice buck. 2 seasons ago I passed on several small doe. Last season, I passed on a button buck, a small 4, a small 5 or 6, a young doe and spike.
This year so far, I have passed on a yearling doe twice (same one), a doe with fawn in tow in Sept (fawn was still in spots and felt no need to orphan it), a button buck and a spike. I think it's up to us to show restraint if we want the population to rebound.
Having said that - I have 2 zone 12 properties that are thick with deer, so I am using the replacement tag system for the first time (hence my other thread). I still don't intend to take more than 4-5 deer (all seasons combined - bow, shotgun,ML - way lower than what I'm, legally "allowed"). I rarely eat beef at home, so venison or other game is my primary source of red meat.
I eat it, my 2 nephews eat it, I provide for friends & co-workers, and bring meat for tailgate grilling and ice fishing. I'd debate on taking an additional one and giving to hunters for the hungry - but with my rate of consumption, see no need to take more in my situation.
Anyway - I'd be fine if we got less tags, and do not use all I am "entitled" to legally. If we want quality deer in CT - it's what we have to do as well as stop harvesting young bucks...
I to have been Bow hunting for 40 plus years and the hole deer population has gone down,Guys (bucks) more than ladies (does).I used to hunt in Ridgefield and you could not believe the amount of deer we use to see,And I mean some real nice bucks.I went many of years getting a real nice buck every year.This was in the 80s and early 90s .It was amazing.All long the NY border we use to see so many none residents hunters.The lic.were cheep and just a short ride from NY.Second like BBB said about people just be stupid about tagging practices and over harvesting and third, and then their coyotes and now bears, lost of habitat more new homes less wood and farms.And plus everyone want to hang a nice buck on the wall not a doe.Im lucky I can still practice deer management where i hunt.
I hunt Litchfield and Watertown, and have been hunting these areas for forty years when deer hunting didn't exist. I watched it peak and decline, and peak and decline again. The last four years have been dismal, and this year is the worst. Litchfield in particular seems almost barren. The DEEP indicates that bears are eating the fawns??? Coyotes; Bobcats.
I agree with less tags overall, and not just less buck tags. This should be statewide; one of each sex. I know to many people who take half a dozen deer in other districts. This state really doesn't seem to do any wildlife management anymore. Why would we still have a grouse season???? Why are we allowed to fish for breeding brown and brook trout in the fall? I'm guessing it's all about revenue.
In short numbers are way down in Litchfield county.
Other things that are probably having impact is the the lengthening of the archery season - longer season means more deer killed.
Also the gun season used to start like the second week in December and run through 12/31 or there abouts. No doubt moving the gun season to the week before thanksgiving increased success rates (and gave folks a holiday weekend to gun hunt). I remember the old gun season was pretty tough, and also pretty cold.
Personally I like the seasons where they are, but more deer are getting killed as a result.
" I really think we need to do something to stop the madness!"
I'm convinced that in order to stop the madness, you have to start with the insurance lobby, I would be very surprised if they are not the ones primarily behind much of this. The way things are set up at this point, you can kill unlimited deer.
I agree. A petition to DEEP requesting evaluation and changes to current hunting rules will start the process. We might have to get, directly or indirectly, PETA involved in this as they probably have more funds and pull. That is a sword with two edges.
DO NOT GET PETA INVOLVED.
Do you think they'll want to stop at that if successful?
Because this state is not a hunting state like any of the Midwest states where hunting is part of life , CT can care less ,we should be luck they let us (lol) even with these endless tags in certain zones how many guys are actually whacking endless deer , X2 on bloodtrails post and agree with HH post also
I'm going to add one more thing and I'm not looking to start a pissing match but it what i feel also has a impact is the use of crossbows thru the entire season, we all know with a compound or recurve the challenge is pulling that bow back at the right time and avoid getting busted by the deer, we've all been thru this and got busted which resulted in the deer won and we lost, having a big buck come in and your shaking and you can't pull your bow back . I'm sorry with a crossbow to me it's like hunting with a gun, you see the deer you aim thru the scope and pull the trigger. You will see a record harvest this year because the amount of people using them have doubled, I was at cabelas this year and there had to be ten people there buying crossbows.Like i said it's just my 2 cents I'm not against people using them, but the deer that walks in on someone with a crossbow more than likely is dead.
There was a record amount of deer killed by archers last season, but overall there's been a decline in hunting permits the past 5 years. The deer harvested the past 20yrs per 2013 Connecticut Deer Study Program, is nearly status quo. I've never hunted southern Connecticut or Zones 11 & 12, where I suspect most of the declines are in question? When you are talking unsustainable numbers of 60+ deer/sq mile from a decade or two ago, of course a decline will be noticeable. As for where I hunt in northern Connecticut River Valley (Zone 3) and state land (Zones 3 & 4a), herd numbers are 1/4 in size per sq mile as those Connecticut towns to the southwest. I have not seen a noticeable decrease up this way... in fact a slight increase... which may come with more experience and maturing as a hunter.
Just weighing in from Zone 11. Been killing deer since 1989 and have killed over a hundred with a bow. I earn a few earn-a-buck tags that end up in my pocket on Dec 31. I don't hammer little bucks just because I have 4 buck tags. But I am aware that some people do. The earn-a buck should go up to four does to get the tag, and there should be a limit of perhaps two extra tags per man. Most hunters down here are exclusively bow, so they aren't filling Muzzy or rifle tags. Just what I think, open to other ideas.
Been hunting northern Litchfield county for 25 years, and I don't see the decline in numbers or mature bucks like others are seeing. Seems like some places are a wasteland while others (sometimes right next door) are loaded with deer. Population densities seem to shift and go through cycles for one reason or another, but overall the numbers seem to be steady. The numbers were never all that good here like down south and I still have to work really hard just to see deer let alone get them, but they are around just like they have always been.
I hear and agree with what everyone is saying about the tag limits, tagging system, people shooting small bucks, etc. I just don't think I'm as affected by it as hunters in other parts of the state. Zones 11 and 12 are a total mess from what I understand. Can't at all be surprised to see dramatic changes for hunters there.
As far as predation goes, coyotes have always been around like they are now, some years there are more than others, no biggie. I don't see any real upward trending. I do see lots of bears and bobcats around now that were never here back in the day. Not sure what the impact is exactly, there are more fawn around this year than I have seen in some time and the does are holding on to them. I have one doe with three skips, and a couple others with two that I have been monitoring since the spring and they are doing well even with regular bear and bobcat traffic. No fawns have gone missing.
All that being said, I do think the state has totally screwed up things where ever they go sticking their nose, hunting being one of many. I liked the way things were with the hunting system 20 years ago much more than I do now. Common sense was a bit more prevalent than it is these days.
Another thing to take in to consideration for myself at least is that I have definitely evolved as a hunter over the years. I used to suck at hunting and seeing 10 deer a season was a good season. I have learned how to get on them better now I'm seeing 50 deer per season give or take depending on the factors of the seasons.
Been using trail cams now for quite a few years to monitor the local herd dynamics and it seems like nothing has changed herd wise. The biggest change has been my self imposed limits and restrictions by knowing what is out there. Hunting private land with limited pressure helps me let deer walk where in the past I would shoot anything that gave me the opportunity to. I have never shot more deer than I needed to. I like to try and get four per season.
I try to reduce pressure on my private lands and hunt different pieces of state land as much a possible for some freezer does and the occasional big buck, but being a more successful hunter keeps me from shooting little dink spikes and buttons. Lots of other hunters will take them, but if that's the only opportunity they are presented with than good for them.
Silverado nailed it . years ago I honestly felt like the only bow hunter in Fairfield Co I never saw anyone ...even in state land. Now a days I see hunters everywhere. I don't totally agree with the mature bucks going down hill. Years ago I'd see 100 deer before I saw a good buck now a days it seems I see fewer deer but I see decent bucks still. It is totally unfair to compare CT to the Midwest, deer in the Midwest have better habitat and way better/more food. CT still has a ton of deer compared to the other new England states they are just not behind every tree like they were 15 years ago....now you gotta put a Lil more effort in.
The way I am comparing CT to the Midwest is that the Midwest has a better quality of buck and a lot more of them yet you can only shoot 2 as a resident but in CT you can shoot 6+. No comparison in the quality the comparison was simply with the tag numbers! I have been running cameras in CT for 10+ years and the number of mature bucks on my cameras have been on a downward spiral since then with a big drop off over the past 6 years. I remember going on scouting rides during the summer 10 years or so ago and you could see a good buck or a few a night now you are lucky if you see a few all summer, there is definitely less. Just look at the P&Y entries over the past 10 for CT and u will see a decline. And lastly I could honestly care less about any other NE state I live and hunt in CT and this is the only state I care about. IMO what we are going through here with hunters being greedy and ruining it for themselves happened years ago in many of those other states!
I'll spur the debate with the suggestion of implementing QDM and point restrictions.
I'd support that Blatch. But remember the screwy reporting system where you just tell them how many points there are on the deer. How will point restrictions be enforced if the deer is never inspected?
See I don't support the antler restriction, what if there is a 4.5 or 5.5 yr old 6 point u can't shoot it because it doesn't fir the cut off? If you are trying for QDM this makes no sense because these are the bucks you don't want breeding but yet you can shoot them, and on the flip side should u really tell someone that only gets out a few times a year that they can't shoot he only deer they might have an opportunity at for that year? This is why if they just reduce the amount of buck tags it would work. First it would make guys that are somewhat selective more selective and it would eliminate the guys who shoot every small buck that walks by from doing so much harm. Just think about this, if you reduced the amount of young bucks taken in a year by just 15% think about what you would have in just 4-5 years, now tho k about that 10 years down the road. Like I said before there is absolutely no reason to be able to shoot 6+ bucks a year!
Go back to the green tag ! You were really taking a chance not punching it out on the way home now you just put on your paper one and then just throw it away after you get home just dumb !STEVE
Hardcore,
I could agree on reducing the number of buck tags to two per season, regardless of weapon used.
However, I attribute the fewer sightings of deer to habitat change. Especially in areas where guys have hunted for mucho years. All it takes is one new house/dog/driveway to alter travel patterns and destroy food sources.
If you know of illegal activity and don't report it, you sanction the problem.
Only 2 years here, but have a comment... The hunters (we) and the DEEP have 2 different goals.
We want the deer herd to flourish so we have more opportunities to see some really nice quality deer.
The DEEP wants the number low to control the population. They will have a lax tagging system to accomplish this.
We need to act ourselves and be more mindful of what we shoot today for a better future.
Asking them for less tags is not going to make them lower the number.
Only we (all hunters) can control the herd, not the DEEP, it is our faults as an entire group as to the current situation with the herd over the years, so don't blame the DEEP for this. We need to change the culture of the hunter in CT to what it is like in "hunting states" in the Midwest as described above.
What is sad is all those who don't give a crap and shoot 20 deer a year (yes, one guy told me he did this last year). And those who break the rules and don't report, etc.
I have a pvt property with 100 acres and the neighbor has a giant feeder and trail cam set up, and it's not in legal baiting zone....stupid people. Just like everything in life...a few bad apples ruins the situation for everyone else!
Oh yeah and BTW, SUNDAY HUNTING WILL NOT HELP EITHER!
Numbers don't lie , Westchester NY is the same exact thing from late 1980s to today and Westchester Poundridge , south Salem is bow only and only 1 buck and maybe one doe and there numbers are even worst than CT. As everyone has good valid points here , but even on the CT reporting system , it's not all the DEEP , it's all on us as hunters to turn this around.( and I'm not 100% sure how but I'm in if Ct comes up with something logical ) The green tags 2 buck 2 does was great with x-amount of hunters 15 years ago , with who knows how many more hunters less land 1 buck 1 doe great. Who is going to enforce it? It's on us.
I really think it's numbers in hunters and less land. it's hard call but great more people want to get in the sport , but do we have the land to support? A lot of hunters are hunting the same heard of deer per SQ mile. Now with X-bows maybe this will add in also , as I see they are flying off the shelf at some hunting stores I have been out. I support the x-bows ( I don't have one), but it seems a lot of novice hunters just jumping on them without even trying a compound bow.
Dark Knight amen brother amen!!!!!!!!
Maybe sunday hunting won't help BUT, IT IS ONE OF THE MOST STUPID LAWS IN CT.
Or maybe it will. I know for a fact that if I had Sunday hunting, I would not shoot more deer but I would defenitley would be more selective.
Right now we are in october and I only have maybe 3 more days to hunt because of family/work obligations. If I had Sundays to hunt, that would give me a lot more time to hunt. As it stands, first come first served cuz I might not get another chance to bag one until next season..
I don't mean to get off subject, but I'd be curious to know the number of xbow hunters who have never hunted with a vertical bow and how many xbow users hunt without taking CE/FS Bowhunting Courses prior to hunting archery season, or do they feel entitled because they can hunt firearms? It was years ago all you needed was to pass CE/FS Firearms Hunting Course to archery hunt.
I think you have to take the bow course to hunt with a xbow its 1 in the same now .
Dark
OK, now you're talking. When I joined this site last year I made the same statement and got blasted by a few guys on this site who hunt for food or just want to shoot as many deer as the law allows. No judgements made, just a statement of fact.
Most of guys on the site know that I haven't shot a deer in about 16 years now, not because I don't have opportunities, but because I will only shoot big, mature bucks. Why? Because I want more deer, bigger deer, not just for me, but for everyone, especially my grandkids!
I've been trying to do my part, we just need more guys on the wagon.
If anyone notices hunting rules being broken and you do not talk to the trespasser and you are not willing to call DEEP then you are an accomplice to his/her crime against the animal and all others who stay the course. Ignoring it while aware does not excuse.
Greed, lack of common sense, guilty silence are tools of perdition, and eventually will lead to destruction.
First thing is to get rid of our current biologist's and get real biologist's to manage our deer herd, antler restriction that I've been talking about for years, tag restriction, no baiting! I've been talking about the decline of our herd on this site for years, now it's all come to fruition!!!! Just my opinion!
Steve is right. Green tags.
Treerat u and me both, I have been hammered on it in the past now I think a lot if guys eyes r opening up
Yes, Huntin' Hardcore I hear you! I've been hammered too, but now this whole thing is spiraling out of control. Baiting in of itself has led to the demise of our CT herd. No one realizes that when you feed deer whole corn after Dec. they cannot digest the corn and can easily die. Fellow bow hunter's are killing countless deer over piles of corn! Now it's crossbow for anyone who wants to use one. The DEEP should have left that for people with disabilities. I believe if you have good physical health, you should have to hunt with a traditional or compound bow, not a cross bow! Now we have predator's and White Buffalo or whatever that butcher's name is! In so many words; CT deer are screwed!!! But, we can start to make changes and turn our States whitetail hunting around for the better, it just takes restraint and patience.
Oh, and I forgot, out of stater's are coming into CT for cheap and hammering our deer! Yup, our states deer are screwed!!!
Wonder how many fawns this guy has eaten?
or this guy, all in the same spot?
Six
you said exactly what I posted on another thread about call the warden on ANYONE who breaks the law, but I'm really, really surprised at how many of us refuse to call the DEEP to get these guys in trouble. None of the reasons given make much sense to me, especially when I read this posting about lower deer numbers.
Come on guys! It's time to take responsibility for the resource and help manage it. Stop the bitching and do something about it.
36 years in the woods, there's a lot of great pionts posted.The DEEP deffinatly needs to go back to the punch tags. It's a complete free for all for those who have no consiance . Ive been up in the northwest area for 14 yrs and hunting was great and when i say great it was 1 deer maybe 2 almost every year between Bow,shotgun and muzzle. Since the bad October storm a few years back there were no acorns to be found and so went the deer, up until this year, acorns are back and getting some deer on camera again. Black Bear have been on my cameras almost every time i check them (and cameras are spred out sometimes by miles).Black beer love fawns. Theres just way too many deer allowed to be takin along with the honor system we have inplace. Hey my family loves to eat venison and if i get lucky, 2 deer overfill my freezer. Thats my 10 Cents
I'd like it to go back to replacement anterless tags and only 2 buck tags...
I agree that we as Hunters have different goals than both the majority of CT residents AND the DEEP.
Most of the residents want a much smaller deer herd. They don't want deer eating their flowers or shrubs, denting their cars or bringing ticks into their yards. All of those things are understandable. The DEEP has responded to those concerns with a way to significantly reduce the herd, and it's been successful in some places, and too successful in others.
Hunters of course want lots of deer, but what we should really want is a healthy deer herd.
A healthy deer herd will have numbers limited by the Carrying Capacity. And since we live in a highly populated (mostly by non-hunters) state that's going to be the Cultural Carrying capacity NOT the Biological Carrying Capacity.
Too many others want the numbers low, I think we just have to accept that they will take action to bring that about.
I think we can find some common ground however. Number are not going to be what they once were in places like Zone 11 and 12, (and that's probably for the best anyway). I hated hearing deer referred to as if they were rats or pigeons, and let's face it, the deforestation was out of hand.
Why can't we have a lower but reasonable number of deer AND a healthy, balanced herd? Balanced means bucks and does in a natural balance, AND a more natural spread out age distribution.
Too many people who talk about QDM seem to have no idea what it really is. Look up the QDMA, they don't just advocate for big bucks, or tons of deer.
I suppose the real question comes down to: What can we do as hunters?
Here's what I do:
I don't shoot does where numbers appear (to me) down.
I don't shoot small bucks, I like them to (have a chance) to grow up to maybe become big bucks.
I try to spread the word that we as hunters have to do things ourselves because other people and other groups have different goals.
I try to introduce new people into hunting, and teach them the right way.
I try to influence decision makers to see things the way I see things, this includes politicians, hunters, land owners and non hunters.
And last: I hope for the best.
Ace,
I couldn't have said it better!
Heres what Id like to see.
a three deer max. all methods combined. 1 doe 1 buck any age 1 buck 6pt or better no earn a buck.... 3 max.
OK - I just sent the DEEP an email and asked them if they had plans to limit the tags in the future, so as to reduce the harvest on state land in particular and all lands where numbers are low.
Let's see what they reply.
BBB, you will get the standard reply...herd is in great shape, tagging system is great. I've been through it with Dr. Kilpatrick.
Here's his work (860-642-6528) and email [email protected]
He's nice but will offer no help in managing the herd for hunters. They manage the herd for car/deer collisions and homeowners upset about their Hostas getting eaten.
