New tagging rule.
Wisconsin
So the local Eau Claire Tv station had a story the other night about new zones/rules for deer season. One that really stood out to me was any tagged deer, the hunter that tagged it needed to be physically present with the deer at all times. No tagging and leaving in the truck, at camp on the buck pole... If this is how this really is going to work, I bet there will be a lot of citations/warnings for this come gun season.
Rut "No tagging and leaving in the truck, at camp on the buck pole"
Rut; I may be wrong but I saw a similar show and it lead the viewers to believe you could leave it in camp/home and return to group hunt or fill a doe tag or what ever you have. What if it is registered? with the called in reg. you could do that in the field,,,then what ?
I guess this needs to be clarified.
Thanx for posting.
Wisconsin 2014 Deer hunting regulations booklet, Page 22, Transportation of Deer. Read it word for word, and you will know What is legal or not. Don't go by what someone else thinks or says. Good luck hunting.
So what this is referring to is the infamous group bagging rule during gun season. As most of us know, if Joe shoots a deer Frank has agreed to tag a deer if Joe shoots one, Joe must stay with the deer until Frank attaches his tag. Of course there's other rules that apply, but this sounds like a breakdown of another part of hunting, and the knowledgeable media got it a wee bit mixed up?
Or page 22 lol
Well then a warden has it mixed up as well, as a warden is quoted on WEAU as saying if you shoot one and tag it you must be with it at all times. Once registered I'm sure anyone can transport/possess as it's always been.
Rut, I always thought that was the rule? Turns out you are correct. There is a change. You must be with your tagged deer in the field or in the woods. I don't believe it hanging on the meat pole (unregistered) at the cabin applies here, because it specifically states "while in the field".
I believe it must be there to prevent Joe from using Frank's tag whwn Frank is not hunting....but instead a phone call away. Like I said, I always thought it was already the rule. The only people affected by this change, will be those that party hunted the way it was not intended....ear shot or eyesight away.
Also, you always had to be present when a deer was being tranferred to the registration. Of course phone in registration changes that rule. I suppose this is the DNR's answer to this new rule they might not have supported? Maybe next year you WILL have to be with your unregistered deer at all times? Simplifying the means in which to register your deer will perhaps make you register it sooner?
I never thought that online/phone-in registration would affect anyone as far as allowing someone to beat the system? I always felt the only risk a guy takes with registration, was the time from tagging or not tagging, to dragging it to your truck. Adding the ability to shoot a deer with someone else's tag, then additionally calling it in using that phantom hunter's information, does allow someone the ability to beat the system, because he can say (if caught in the field with the phantom hunter's tagged and registered deer) that "Frank" will be right back, he had to get a rope to drag this thing out. Meanwhile Frank has been called the moment "Joe" shot and registered Frank's deer.
The DNR will probably make it a rule that in the field, you will have to be with your deer even if it is registered. This rule this year is perhaps the stepping stone to an enhanced version next year when everyone has the ability to call in a deer. Matter of factly, many people have the ability to call their deer in this year via the trial version. I'm on that list, as well as several other bowsiters.
We will see!
You can be at camp, or on the road with somebodys tagged and registered deer if that person is around. you cannot be actively hunting or in the field without the person in the vehicle.
Yes but by the sounds of this, you can't tag a deer and hang it on the buck pole and then go hunting. It sounds like you have to be near your tagged deer at all times. That is exactly how it was also explained to me in the "all knowing" DNR chat. So technically if you shoot one, tag it and hang it at camp/home or where ever and say ran down to the store, you would be in violation. I used the example of having legally tagged deer on a buck pole. But say some members of the group go out for supper after the hunt. The person on the chat told me this would be in violation, if the hunters that tags were on the deer were not in camp with the deer.
the person on the chat doesn't know squat. according to that logic NO ONE could ever leave a tagged deer without it being registered. if the person who killed it, tagged it with his/her own tag, hung it on the meat pole, and then went to town to have a beer they would be in violation also? Don't think so. Its the same.
It's not the same, the rule has changed this year. I agree that the chat people are pretty much clueless. I just said they were "perfect" because there is a member here that treats what the chat people say as the gospel.
It only applies "In the field" the meat pole at the cabin isn't in the field. It implies to actual hunting, driving through the woods, fields, etc.
what live2hunt said
makes sense
So IF the DNR had the manpower to do it, this could really put the kabosh on how a lot of the bigger gun groups hunt.
If I remember correctly, this is only for transporting the deer. The old rules only applied to public roads, so Joe hunter could shoot a deer and have Jane hunter come out with the ATV and take the deer back to camp for Joe while Joe walked back, as long as she never traveled on a public roadway. Now Joe needs to with the deer while it is being transported, even if not on a public road. Once the deer is at camp, Joe can leave and do whatever he wants, but he has to be with the deer when they transport the deer to the registration station. Once the deer is tagged, he can walk back to camp if he would like, maybe get some young legs to help drag it back. He doesn't have to sit and wait for a search party to look for him before he can get help to drag the deer.
I also think that once the e-registration starts, transporting laws change to make the license holder of the tagged and registered deer must be with the deer during transport. Where the rules now state that once the deer is registered, anyone can transport the deer. I'm pretty sure there is a change that the deer can only be transported by the tag holder, even after e-registration, until the deer is butchered.
FiveRs, So I shoot a deer tag it, transport it to our cabin. Call it in to register it, It is tagged and registered legally, Now I want to give or send the deer with someone else to process. I cannot do that? I have to be with it through processing. My daughter lives in Minneapolis area. I have to go home with her and butcher it then leave? This was supposed to simplify things not make them worse. Maybe I'm confused as are many others.
This is the problem I have with this. Most of us here are above average hunters. We scout year round, hunt hard, and keep up on the rules. But if WE are having trouble interpreting this rule. How in the hell is the below average 2 day a year gun hunter going to figure it out. I have gotten 4 different interpretations of this rule from wardens and the DNR. Truth be told, it in no way will affect me as we don't group hunt. BUT, if my son shoots a deer opening morning and legally tags it. I would like to know if I can drag it out for him so he can continue to hunt.
Or, if I shoot a deer, tag it with my own tag and leave it lay right there while I walk to the truck for my sled and/or ATV does that put me in violation of this new law? If so, it needs to be changed.
Bottom line, if it comes to that, all that matters is what the warden thinks the law is and how he is or is not going to enforce it in any given situation. I think most Wisconsin wardens have a great deal of common sense.
Jeff +1, much ado about nothing IMO. No major change intended, just working toward making it easier to bust cheaters on the group hunting rule. See the tail end of the answer on p. 23 to the question that starts with, "What is the purpose …"
But it will also make it illegal for grandpa to come out with the tractor, load hi grandsons legally tagged deer into the bucket and take it to the shed and hang it. Or any similar scenario, which happens hundreds if not thousands of times during the gun deer season.
no it won't ....his grandson just needs to "tag" along
The rule is fine.
You guys are overthinking this. If it's tagged and not registered, the guy who shot it has to be in the vehicle. If it's tagged and registered and your in the backwoods, the guy who shot it needs to be with. If it's tagged and registered and the guy who shot it had to leave, then another person can take it home for him as long as they are driving home on roads and such. Not stopping and hunting or road hunting for deer.
"Transportation • While afield, no person may possess or transport another hunter’s deer, even after it has been registered, unless accompanied by the person issued the carcass tag which is attached to the deer, except that anyone may still transport another person’s registered deer on a public road or possess it at a residence, camp or business"
"The restriction against “possessing” someone else’s deer while still afield only applies when another person has taken primary or exclusive control of that deer. Simply being present at the same location where someone else has left their deer, does not mean the person whose tag is on the deer has transferred possession and control of that deer to you or that you are now automatically considered to be in “possession” of that deer. Standing near a tagged deer carcass, while the tagger walks back to their vehicle, home or camp to get a rope or help to drag out the deer or sitting alone in a vehicle parked in the field which has someone else’s deer loaded in that vehicle, is not illegal. This is a common occurrence and is still allowed."
Not to difficult to understand, they are just tightening loopholes violators would use.
I don't see how this changes anything? You have to remember that second hand information is only as good as those understanding and telling it, and I do not put much value to what I hear in "news" reports.
Doug, there was a WI conservation officer in the news story that added to the confusion. This could be a great law for those that bend the rules when group bagging. But it will be a pain in the ass for some of us. Like I said, I would bet that hundreds break this rule opening weekend of gun season.
How do you break the rule?
The only thing that changes; is now even registered deer in the field need to have the tag holder present, and this is not even really a change because up until this year you never had the option of having a "registered" deer in the field.
Only you Rut could get this so screwed up! You shoot a dandy buck and then common sense goes out the window - Really?
Take a look at NR 10.105(1) that would be a good start.
I know you hate the WDNR Customer Service Representative Chat - but actually they have been helpful to me once again!
I will be calling WDNR Legal Services tomorrow and get the law or "authority" as it pertains to this new law change and I'll post it here for all of you to view at your leisure.
Pretty simple stuff however!
You got a conservation law question, well A). Ask your Field Warden B). Dont believe him/her or ya dont understand...look the law up and read the damn thing yourself!
99.9 per cent of this is pretty simple stuff - and even if's it's not that easy ....99.9 per cent of the wardens "run" on "common sense" - make a good faith effort to understand the laws - you'll be fine.
I'll let ya know how I do Rut!
Another thing I believe is important to point out is that when ever a new rule change takes place the large majority of WDNR staff use that first year as an educational time and are not hiding behing every tree and stump waiting to write you a citation.
Of course if the behavior is so out of line I suspect they would issue!
live2hunt and Doug seem to get the picture as does Naz and theardeal as well. Pete-Pec has got it.
But somehow some folks (Rut) became confused when they read this and then what Warden Scott Thiede was quoted as stating following a recent Eau Claire news story:
"Another big change includes group hunting regulations. Any hunter must be present with the deer they tag. Hunters are not allowed to be responsible for any other deer but their own while in the field."
Warden Thiede says -
“If you're in the woods or field, if you're away from the roadway, not at a camp site or cabin, we want to make sure that if there's a tagged deer there that the person who tagged that deer is present as well. That's to avoid violations of the group hunting law,” says Thiede
Pretty well explained to me.
Once that deer is tagged and OUT OF FIELD OR WOODS you can pretty much put that deer anywhere except back in a field or the woods!
That's it!
Staying home from a dinner to watch your deer? Grampa removing his grandson deer with a tractor..where does this stuff come from?
And by the way Rut - those "chat" people you talk of are WNDR CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. They are the VERY same people you or I would go talk with if we entered any WDNR Service Station across the State!
BT + 1 and 2 :)
Rut...you better not hunt, I think you might get a ticket LOL
"Grampa removing his grandson deer with a tractor..where does this stuff come from?"
Pretty common in my area for someone to come out with a tractor or atv and take the legally killed and tagged deer back to camp so others can continue to hunt. For some it's a way to participate in the hunt if they no longer can handle the cold or just don't hunt. The only way this rule has any effect on me. Is that I can't haul out my sons or daughters deer and let them continue to hunt.
"if I shoot a deer, tag it with my own tag and leave it lay right there while I walk to the truck for my sled and/or ATV does that put me in violation of this new law?"
Jeff if you had a friend/relative hunting with you and they were near your deer, yes you would be in violation. Yes most wardens use discretion and are very reasonable. However during the gun season when they bring in the part timers a lot of them are on power trips.
Can see that could happen Rut, but why wouldn't the grandson (or your son or daughter) want to stay with his/her deer? Why wouldn't a kid who just shot a nice deer want to head in and tell the story (and eat, and maybe take a hot shower and a nap!). ;)
Like I said Naz, it won't affect me. I'll just tell the kids to either drag their own deer or quit hunting and come out while we remove them. More than likely we will just tag the deer and leave them lay in the woods until dark. Then we will all get them out with the 4 wheeler. My kids don't like to lose any hunting time opening weekend, and I don't blame them.
Rut, they use the walk back to get ruck or sled example in the regulations, "The restriction against “possessing” someone else’s deer while still afield only applies when another person has taken primary or exclusive control of that deer. Simply being present at the same location where someone else has left their deer, does not mean the person whose tag is on the deer has transferred possession and control of that deer to you or that you are now automatically considered to be in “possession” of that deer. Standing near a tagged deer carcass, while the tagger walks back to their vehicle, home or camp to get a rope or help to drag out the deer or sitting alone in a vehicle parked in the field which has someone else’s deer loaded in that vehicle, is not illegal. This is a common occurrence and is still allowed."
And grandpa hauling out a deer, tagged or not has ALWAYS been a transport violation if the tag holder is not present. All this rule changes would be if I decide to use my call in registration I can't have someone come get my tagged/registered deer out of the woods-I will still need to be along.
"Yes most wardens use discretion and are very reasonable. However during the gun season when they bring in the part timers a lot of them are on power trips."
Bring in the part timers? You mean "Deputy Wardens?"
They are the only "part-timers" I'm aware of and they have been working all summer/fall off and on. Well before the gun deer season. These are certified law officers, some are part time from their full time jobs as Sheriff's deputies and police officers.
"On power trips" - Really! Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you read what you write?
Also, I wasnt able to get in touch with WDNR until late afternoon, the attorney I was looking for was out - but I will have answer.
That's it, I'm not gun hunting....this year either! ;-)
As promised - here it is an actual copy of the law that we have been speaking of. This has been described to me an an "emerdgency rule change" and explains why I couldnt find the law on-line.
SECTION 30. NR 10.105 (1), (2), (4) and (7) are amended to read: NR 10.105(1) While afield, No no person may possess or transport a carcass of a deer or bear from the time the deer or bear is killed to the time it is registered under s. NR 10.106, that is tagged with the or possessed under the authority of a validated carcass tag of another person unless accompanied by the person issued the carcass tag. After a deer or bear is registered it may be transported by vehicle on a public roadway or possessed at a dwelling or business establishment by a person who is not hunting without the need to be accompanied by the person who tagged and registered the deer or bear. A dwelling for the purposes of this subsection includes permanent residences as well as temporary residences, such as an established hunting cabin or camp site.
To go one further - if anyone has a question to how the word "afield" is defined by law...here that is:
SECTION 8. NR 10.001 (1k) is created to read: NR 10.001 (1k) "Afield" means an area where hunting can legally occur such as fields, forests or similar areas.
This should make things a little easier to understand and reference.
Rut - ya make a lot of work for me. :^)
