Matrix's Link
Hunters registered 90,281 white-tailed deer over the opening weekend of the 2014 Wisconsin gun deer hunting season, an 18% drop from 2013, according to a preliminary harvest report issued Monday by the Department of Natural Resources.
The two-day kill is the lowest in recent history; historical data from the DNR was available only back to 2002.
State wildlife officials attributed the reduced kill to several factors, including a lower deer population in northern Wisconsin, a lower number of antlerless permits statewide and opening weekend weather that included fog and rain.
The report showed hunters registered 48,926 bucks (down 9% from 2013) and 41,355 antlerless deer (down 27%).
The gun deer season began this past Saturday and runs through Sunday.
The opening weekend traditionally accounts for more than half of the kill for the nine-day season. If the 2014 Wisconsin deer harvest follows form, it would be the lowest since 1981 when 166,673 deer were taken by gun hunters.
The opening weekend kill in 2013 was 110,797 (53,865 bucks and 56,932 antlerless) and in 2012 it was 134,772 (71,989 bucks and 62,783 antlerless).
Antlerless permit levels across the north are at the lowest levels since the 1990s and a reduced antlerless harvest is expected this year, according to DNR wildlife managers.
The DNR set "buck only" regulations in all or part of 19 counties this year in an effort to allow deer numbers to rebuild in areas hit hardest by the record severe winter of 2013-'14.
Severe winter weather in recent years has cut the deer herd in the Upper Midwest, according to wildlife officials.
Wisconsin is not the only state affected. Hunters in Minnesota, where the firearm deer season started about two weeks ago, have registered 23% fewer deer this year.
Wisconsin sold 589,830 deer hunting licenses as of opening day, a drop of 26,042 (4.2%) from the same time in 2013.
The sales included 30,751 nonresident licenses and 21,862 first-time buyers.
As usual, hunters from all 50 states bought Wisconsin deer hunting licenses this year.
No shooting incidents were recorded over the first two days, according to DNR law enforcement staff. Only one other year in the past decade — 2010 —had no shooting injuries over opening weekend. Eight nonfatal shooting incidents were recorded in the 2013 gun deer season.
The gun-deer season is followed by a statewide muzzleloader deer hunt from Dec. 1-10 and an antlerless deer hunt in the central farmland and central forest zones from Dec. 11-14. In addition, a holiday deer hunt for antlerless deer will be held Dec. 24-Jan. 1 in the southern farmland zone.
Moral is getting very low to hunt. Local registration station only has 20 deer registered. That is really low considering the warm weather on Sat./Sun.
I have to say the NE part of this area the herd is really not huntable or shouldn't be at this time.
Thank You WDNR for all the past doe tags !!!!! Idiots !
Keep the doe tags and beer away and they can't abuse it. The change has to come in the thinking and managing of our " northern " herd in the WDNR.
This has happened in the past and the herd recovered.
If a piece of land can support a certain number, say 100 deer for example, anything above that is not going to make it. It is never an exact number either.An easy winter numbers will be increase or be steady. A harsh winter they will drop. If we continue to leave a high number on the range they diminish range quality and the CC degrades.
There are still deer to hunt, way more than when I began hunting years ago but less than a few years ago.
Get back to letting people feed in the winter as it was in the 90's and you will see an increase.
The only difference in the feeding that should be done is the wdnr should be proactive and teach people the proper foods and way to do it.
Smokey you worked for the USFS your agency hurt the deer herd just as much as the WDNR because of their lack of timber management on the national forests. And now they are against any increase in the northern deer herd. I would like to see the memo's and emails from you to your agency telling them they are wrong with timber management program they have and their lack of support for increasing the deer herd in the north.
LOL USFS what a joke.
If the DNR would manage the predators like they do the deer herd we would be fine.
Bobcat are all over now yet fewer tags and they make it harder to get a tag with the new season structures. Everyone is seeing them now but yet the DNR is say they have declined in population.
This is just one example then go to the bears where they doubled.
I know they have a hard job but come on time to catch up a little here.
Also, no brainwashing by DNR. Years of study, research and fact checking show the limiting factor of harsh winters. Prior to taking of antlerless deer the number swings were much more dramatic. Information is out there and not all of it is from WDNR.
As for winter feeding, the cost would be astronomical to have much impact.
Our deer population will not and cannot bounce back like in the past. Other measures have to be seriously taken to get that balance back, until then, the deer population will continue to deplete and we can look forward to the same frustration, excuses, DNR excuses ect.
Sorry, but I have to say it.... what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Your statement would be like blaming Julius Peppers for the Packer not winning the Super Bowl last year.
I suppose I should blame Kroll for my bolt being frozen this morning and costing me a nice fat doe at 40 yards? Last night epic rain and snow really saturated my bolt. I took it inside and dried everything off and left it by the wood stove for 4 hours. I guess it was wetter than I thought. Ive got it stripped and drying out by the stove for the rest of the day. I feel like an idiot. Never had that happen before.
The data is there to see when we had bad winters and the herd dropped only to rebound with tight antlerless restrictions and easy winters. We just ended a long stretch of easy winters two years ago. WE saw high deer numbers for a long time. True, hunters pulled the trigger but if they had not we would still be where we are today, maybe worse.
We are going to see no antlerless tags again next year for sure. What about those that can shoot antlerless tags up north this year? Are they being conservative? Nope. Just blaming the lack of deer on wolves as they pull the trigger and go buy another tag.
How many does were shot and drug behind the barn for meat?? More than people will admit to.
You have said that before. Totally disagree. NWO is closer to the answer. So should we have given out doe tags again this year so they don't die of winter kill?
Winterkill will not be as high since numbers are way down. There is always some but not as the same each year.
I do not know what you or some others do for a living or what your background is but maybe some people have knowledge you do not possess. And apparently do not wish to acquire.
A simple question is considered a rambling incoherent response? No need to be defensive because you are pro Kroll and served on the DTR Geitz. That process was all for show and a complete bust. And as 10 said, I am entitled to my opinion. Sorry it caused you to get your undies in a bundle. Nowhere did I blame Kroll. I asked a simple question.
I'll try it a different way.
"What did Dr. Kroll and the DTR exactly do that will improve the hunting next year in WI and "bring back the fun" as they were tasked with? "
Seems like a valid question to me and it is simply a question.
Second, as it relates to your question. The issuance or change of management plan started this spring has little to no effect on this years harvest numbers. It was a result of past deer management, weather and the amount of hunters. The DTR management plan changed but deer population are a result of the prior year's(and previous years) management plan....as explained by Matrix.
Your question/statement was made to stir turds politically as you disagree with the current administration and new management plan.
Are you telling me you know exactly what the landscape can handle as far as deer are concerned because you worked for USFS. I base my opinion off of observation made year after year. Maybe if I worked for USFS I would know more? I found zero winter kill last year and witnessed no starvation. The food is there. I doubt anyone spends more time in Northern cedar swamps in the spring like I do. A lot of these swamps no longer even have deer in them and there is plenty of food for them in the swamps and around it.
"but maybe some people have knowledge you do not possess." Duh and I have knowledge some do not have.
Really, just a small amount of common sense would serve some people here.
I concur that my question as worded was too much to expect this first season. I apologize for that wording. I therefore asked it again in a different manner. I should be able to point to many items we can all count on next season to make our hunting more pleasurable.
If there wasn't a change to the management plan, we'd still be past harvest to predict future tag availability. Doe would have little to no value based on price. Local areas would have little input on numbers and decisions would be made from Madison based on equations. Most of these things upset hunters.
Your question is really off topic as to why the preliminary numbers are way down. Back to the topic, it was not hard to predict a low harvest. No antlerless tags issued in 1/3 of the state considering low populations and harsh winter, hunter numbers probably down for the same reason and poor weather condition in the southern 2/3rd of the state. The latter was not part of the prediction.
Here are some of the deer I could not ID even with plenty of legal light left (phone cam pic, maybe 80 yards out tops).
- too many $2 doe tags - rapidly growing predator numbers with very little management - Antlerless and Holiday hunts - EHD for 2 years - 2 severe winters in a row after that
Let's hope we learn from these mistakes and improved management practices prevail.
Wolves aren't the only problem but it does seem like too few tags are being issued and that number should've been increased this fall vs decreased. I guess one way to help is to attend next year's meetings when they discuss management of the wolf population.
One thing I hope that doesn't occur is the discouraging of shooting does to young/new hunters. I grew up during the "buck only" mentality of hunting camp and somehow, shooting a spike buck meant more than shooting a doe. There is nothing wrong with a clean harvest of a doe and I hope the hunters that are just starting, get to see it that way.
A trophy is in the eye of the hunter making the harvest and it should stay that way.
Good luck to everyone still hunting this season!
Got a text from Ridge Runner opening eve. His group hunts out of two camps in far NE WI, where many say there are "no deer" and "only wolves, bears and coyotes." Wish I would have saved the text for the exact words but maybe he'll chime in when he gets back. I think he said a couple hunters saw double-digit numbers of deer, the most in years.
Just thought of one more thing: not sure if DNR added any harvests from the 200 selected in each county for the pilot online registration to each county's numbers. Since the 200 selected were regular harvesters of multiple deer in recent years, it would make a difference. My home area of Door and Kewaunee counties, down just one percent, might actually have been up instead. Maybe the numbers were included, but generally, it's a call-in preliminary count of registration stations. Will try to find out but might not be able to post again until tonight.
They do not consider Marinette County as northern forest....well at least part of it zoned forest. It was one of two counties split, forest and farmland. It also one of two counties in N forest which had antlerless tags available.
I would not compare Marinette Cty to any other Northern Forest hunter.
Crivitz and Pembine stations both stated high numbers, nice buck and it didn't rain, mist or have high winds all day. Sunday was foggy
If we had not lowered the population there would not been enough available food.
I probably spend a heck of a lot more time than you in the woods and I did find a few starved deer. Mostly they were cleaned up by the high predator numbers here so that is why we did not see many. Apparently you either do not know what cedar is or you never get into the cedar stands around here. Not much food in or near them.
Not just my career with USFS but education in classroom and a lifetime living in the north. I keep an open mind to most things and not easily swayed. Especially when it comes to people making bar room biology statements.
Every year I hear the same bull from some whiners. They always say there are no deer. Just take a look at the numbers. No, really take a look. Go back in the history of the State of Wisconsin.
We continue to shoot large numbers of deer. Heck, we shoot more bucks now than total deer when I started hunting in mid sixties. If that is a "ongoing great injustice in the management of our deer herd" then I must be thinking that a different idea of deer hunting.
Wrong we could have had lager over winter populations for the last 5 years and would have done just fine. I said it wrong above we have 5 bowls of food and 2 deer to eat it. Do the math Smoke. I can see that your not going to get it due to the "I know more syndrome" so I will leave it at that. Got to get me a job at USFS then I will know it all:^)
Too bad the few real deer experts in this state - who likely do work for the WDNR - are not listened to. We, hunters, tree huggers, foresters, sporting good store owners, snowmobilers.... all need to find a few people who know what the are talking about and give them the POWER to make intelligent compromises. Everyone fighting for a piece of the pie, often means that pie ends up looking pretty sub-optimal.
Our neighbors found similar hunting.
Minnesota's gun kill is down 31,000 from the same period last year with many buck-only units. Illinois' first season was down eight percent. Iowa's deer kill has dropped eight straight years.
Michigan dead deer counts are down dramatically in the U.P. and parts of the Lower Peninsula. A sampling of Michigan headlines in recent days: "Deer count numbers continue decline," (drops of 48 to 60 percent at some U.P. check stations and bridge crossing counts); "Heavy snow, cold contribute to slow start for firearm deer season in Kalamazoo area"; and "Heavy snow, below average temperatures and a smaller herd of bucks are keeping hunters out of the woods."
I am no expert but last years numbers for us here in MI saw a drop and this year I predict an even bigger drop. I think many factors impact this but for us EHD has to be some of it.
Fact. Deer must be managed a certain goals. If over goal then antlerless tags issued to lower the herd; if under goal no antlerless tags issued to increase herd. Hardly ever is a herd exactly "at goal". The WDNR issued antlerless tags for years since the herd was over goal. Facts like registration numbers prove that out. Now we are below goal so no tags issued and only antlerless deer show in the north are tribal, youth, disabled and active military.
Winter is and always will be the limiting factor until global warming increases and that will be well after I am no longer able to hunt.
Now FIP, when you are out in the cedar swamps what plants can you identify? cedar? alder? ternate grape fern? spotted knapweed?
Since in your wealth of knowledge that tells us there was no winter kill last year please explain the 60% lose in deer in the northern deer study area last winter? And a hint, it wasn't all wolves.
We now have bucks only to rebuild the herd, I am fine with that. There will be food in the spring so if this winter is not as harsh as the last two and a good summer we will start to see a climb out. Predators will still have impact so the climb will be longer but there will be a year soon where we will need to again shoot some antlerless deer. Grass in the spring; lead in the fall. Deer management 101.
Soooo I question your definition of " far NE WI " and the honesty of his group ! If they are all DNR buddies I can understand their #'s. LOL
"I do not know what you or some others do for a living or what your background is but maybe some people have knowledge you do not possess. And apparently do not wish to acquire."
So in return I did the same to you. That hurt your feeling beyond repair and you went ape after that. "FIP you just can't grasp anything can you?"
So in order to repair your large ego I will say. Smokey you are spot on. You know more than even the herd managers. You are the most outstanding outdoors man that ever walk the northern woods of Wisconsin. You are the MAN.
Maybe you can start another thread about respecting others posts with out getting personal. LOL
Nothing to do with ego here. Your OP was off and showed that you misunderstand management of natural resources and I tried to show you the proven facts and source but you are the one that went on the attack.
do not "taker" the time to think this through or acquire any knowledge.
That explains a lot:^)
My observations and opinion are based on my experience in northern Bayfield County. Friends and I have been hunting there for about 17 years.
I’ve always been a public land big woods hunter and for years enjoyed having thousands of acres of public land to hunt in Bayfield County. As expected, the deer were never very numerous or concentrated in the area and we would sometimes go days without seeing a deer. Some of our friends who hunted with us up there threw in the towel and went back south where there were better deer concentrations and the countryside wasn’t so intimidating. For me and some of my friends we loved the relative solitude, the big country and the possibility of killing mature bucks. The quality of the hunt and the room to roam was a tradeoff for the shortage of deer.
The buck to doe ratio was good though and I estimate that greater than 50% of the few deer I saw were cruising bucks looking for does. There were years that I could hunt an entire season, both bow and gun and never have a doe within bow range but I almost always had opportunities at good bucks because they were covering so much ground. The situation was the same for a lot of my friends who hunted there.
During that time we were always amazed at the number of antlerless tags that were given out in the area and we felt that the DNR was severely overestimating the deer population. There were thousands of acres of suitable habitat with very low deer concentrations. The excessive antlerless tags went on for years and one year the area was even Earn-A-Buck. That year I began hunting up there very early in the bow season in an attempt to earn my buck tags. I finally shot a doe with my rifle at 285 yards across a beaver meadow during T-Zone weekend and earned my archery buck tag. That’s the only doe I have killed up there in 17 years.
During the years we have hunted there deer numbers have declined steadily. I have personally seen several wolves and wolf sign has increased greatly. BTW, back before he wolf season was opened up, I’m one of the few guys who predicted that hitting the wolf kill quota would be relatively easy. Some of the core areas that I used to hunt that had decent deer sign are now almost totally devoid of deer sign. I watched wolf sign in those areas increase every year until there was more wolf sign than deer sign but now there is very little of either. The deer are gone and I guess the wolves have moved on looking for more deer.
The areas that I hunted are mostly County and Township land. This land is actively being logged. There are timber stands of all ages with many areas of young growth and a wide variety of browse and bedding cover. In good acorn years the acorns are so thick that you can barely stand on the hillsides because it’s like marbles under your feet. There are more acorns than the deer, bear and squirrel population could ever consume and they often lay on the ground and rot.
I’ve flown over the area numerous times during the winter. When we first started hunting the area there were some severe winters and the deer yards were substantial. I could fly over the deer yards and count hundreds of deer, yet those deer dispersed in the spring and spread out relatively evenly over the area so that the summer and fall concentrations were low. As snow was melting in early spring we went to the deer yards and looked for sheds and winter kill. We found some of both but the winter kill was amazingly low considering that there may have been hundreds of deer in the yards.
Smokey, although I respect your opinion I don’t think your assessment is accurate for the area I am familiar with. In my opinion there are more like 20 bowls of food and only 1 deer to eat it. The deer herd is far below the carrying capacity of the land and the yarding areas can support many more deer than what are left.
I agree that bad winters are a significant factor but for years the DNR has been living on credit with the deer population and antlerless tags up north. Back before the DNR reduced the herd so greatly with the thousands of antlerless tags there were many more deer up north. There were also numerous bad winters during those years but the population was able to recover. The deer population has now been reduced to the point that it can’t withstand multiple bad winters combined with the pressure put on by wolves, bears and coyotes.
Hunters share the blame because they are the ones who pulled the trigger and filled those antlerless tags. I personally would not shoot a doe up north but many hunters rely on the “experts” at the DNR and figure that if there are tags available there must be enough deer.
In my opinion the DNR has been severely out of touch with the northern deer herd. There never should have been so many antlerless tags available. The conditions in the north are not like the conditions in the rest of the state. With the additional pressure asserted by bad winters and predators the deer herd can’t sustain such a high antlerless kill. The “experts” at the DNR should have had the foresight to recognize this fact and should have managed the herd accordingly. The DNR needs to be more proactive than reactive especially when they are out of touch and so slow to react. The DNR should have kept a few more antlerless deer “in the bank” for that rainy day when we have multiple bad winters and a politically uncontrollable wolf population. At my job, if I was put in charge of managing a resource like this and failed so miserably I would expect to be fired.
I remember the day when it was a big deal and a privilege to shoot a doe. I grew up in the day of the Party Tag and the Hunter’s Choice tag. Does are now viewed as vermin that need to be exterminated and that’s unfortunate. I realize that in some areas their numbers need to be reduced but other areas are completely different and they should be viewed as the future of the deer herd and killing one should be returned to once in a while privilege.
It’s so sad and ironic to me what has happened with deer hunting in Wisconsin. What once was, and has the potential to be such a great deer hunting state has evolved partially into a nearly deerless mismanaged landscape. I never would have guessed that at this point in my life where I’m getting closer to having a lot more free time for hunting that I would be looking at other states to do most of my hunting in…
Sorry for the rant, but it’s depressing…
Ridge Runner can speak for himself when he gets back if he wants to, but got two texts from him since. One, Monday at 1:48 p.m., stated that it had "been quiet since opening morning."
Six hours later, got this one: "Snowing hard, almost shot a buck late this afternoon, might have winded me. Saw 5 or 6. Trying some video now. I'll see if it sends."
He then attached a video of the snow falling, and walking around with shots of family members relaxing around camp.
Guys who see deer or at least a lot of tracks and sign are much "happier" hunters than those who don't. Even in the fragmented farm country I typically hunt, deer are not evenly distributed at all. Best habitat and lightest hunting pressure equals the most deer sightings, obviously. You can talk to 10 guys in the same township, and five think the herd is biggest ever and five think the DNR is all wet and the bow hunters, coyotes and hay-cutting equipment got "all" the deer.
I try to be optimistic about the deer herd bouncing back but it's very difficult with all the factors working against it.
As difficult as the hunting was up north 15 years ago, I would love to have those days back.
I feel sorry for those who's businesses and livelihoods are dependent partially on deer populations and deer hunting in the north...
It is refreshing to see someone put into words a very intelligent response. It is very well thought out with intelligent reasoning even if I may not fully agree. But I do agree in most of it.
Yes, DNR needs to get more in touch with current predator issues. As I have said before we are in a predator pit. Google it.
If the herd had not been lowered there would have been more dead deer though. How can anyone explain the 60% drop in deer in the northern study area?
IT is too early to see what the DTR impact will be but as I have said in the past the north is different and I as well as others think Dr. Kroll and team did little for the north and especially federal lands. Maybe what is needed is a northern deer panel to address the issues? HHMMM!
It is difficult to discuss theses issues on forums such as these as many of you now.
That is where you are wrong. But its your opinion and you are welcome to it:^)
60% loss in the northern study due to harsh winter. Show me yours, I showed you mine. But you can't because you only use emotion and no facts.
And it is not only my opinion...
Last year the WSI was one of the worst its ever been. Did we loose 60% of the deer last winter? If not why?
"I probably spend a heck of a lot more time than you in the woods and I did find a few starved deer. Mostly they were cleaned up by the high predator numbers here so that is why we did not see many."
No Smokey you did not find many parts or pieces because the winter kill was not 60%. Are the predators eating the heads and backbones leaving no evidence of the winter kill? LOL
All this has happened before and registration numbers back it up. All I have to do is look around every year and see who is getting deer and who is not to support the numbers. I watch local registration stations too and those numbers reflect all of this.
Wolves take about 20,000 deer state wide in a year. We take about that in on area each year in the northern zone in gun season.
True herd is down. I never said it wasn't. Rut, for the record I do not believe everything the DNR tells me. I listen and make up my own mind on everything, regardless of the source Often I challenge what they say but this is one thing I agree with and find it laughable that some cannot grasp some things.
I am not a plumber, electrician, mechanic, Doctor, or many other fields so when I need some work done or information I go to the proper source with knowledge. This is one area I have knowledge of and there are a lot of people not so knowledgeable that make up what they think they know. The old saying: Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up. Seems to fit some hunters.
There is food for the deer in some of these areas but in harsh winters they cannot get there due to deep snows. The cold took its toll last winter too. I hear some of you concerned over the deep snows early this year so you must believe there is something to be concerned about. Anyone have cams out in May and June last spring? Ribs and back bones showing as late as early July, not a typical thing. The wolves did that?
FIP, yes wolves clean it all up unless you push them off a fresh kill even then they will come back later and clean it up. Hair and some blood is all you will find.
RJN, really?
Agree you are that guy:^)
We could have had more deer on the landscape last winter and they would have done fine. 60% winter kill is a joke. You believe what you want I saw none of that in the 15 to 20 deer yards I went looking in. It was a hard winter as the WSI indicated one of the worst. Hopefully the DNR learned a lesson this time with the doe tags but I doubt it. Time will go by and things will get better and they will forget and repeat this all again. Right when poor Mike is about to retire and kill some big bucks they will unleash 5000 does tags on him. Poor Bastard. Some people just walk lockstep blindly with out question. Cattle to the slaughter.
Rutnut that is not a true statement. We are as flush with deer right now in our area of the state as we ever were. Farmland deer populations are doing very well.
From 1979 to 1994 I was in Bayfield County. There were good winters and bad winters, good populations and low ones, and they did recover.....
However, those were days, when the USFS was actively manageing the aspen, and predators numbers were low or kept in check, more bear tags every year, and NO WOLVES.......... also back than lots more guys hunting coyotes.......
Not quite true, our land in Pierce county as well as that of various friends and relatives have all reported lower numbers. This is quality land that has and can hold more deer. Yet the numbers ARE DOWN county wide. By repeatedly making it a herd control unit, they will not change it until it's too late. The WI DNR is reactive with deer management, not proactive. For a perfect example, look north.
smokey's Link
smokey's Link
smokey's Link
Yes the last the couple winters took a toll on the herd, But to think more deer going in would be devastating is foolish. You National forest guys might disagree, but I hunt big state and county tracts and with Timber prices rising the logging has been very Consistent the last several years. The food is there and has been there even before last winters rage.
Very well said mike!
For those who think a million acres of corn standing is an excuse, tell me, how many of you have access to that corn? It's like another no-hunt refuge to the vast majority of us. And you know how big a draw it is? Huge. They cut a few small fields in our area (most larger ones are still standing), and guys lucky enough to hunt the cut ones had a gold mine opening morning. There are many 40s, 80s and some even larger completely covered in corn. Good luck with that!
In Lincoln County, 509 bucks and 139 anterless deer were registered opening weekend for a total of 648 animals. That number is down 36% from the total of 1,019 deer registered in Lincoln County during the 2013 opening weekend. - See more at: http://www.merrillfotonews.com
A few years without antlerless tags and more mild winters will help increase those numbers. Again, in my area the Feds need to work on habitat. Many in FS want herd brought even lower than it is now.
800,000+ tags sold translates to way over hunted = way over harvested in years past = not much left to hunt year after year... WI doesn't need 800k+ tags sold...
500,000 would be more than enough to control the herd
"WHITETAILS AT THE CROSSROADS 'PT 4" and Dr. Krolls "OVERBROWSING ISSUES".
"Howatt," a rose by any other name may smell as sweet, but your posts by any other name are still just as full of it.
If you think you can see as many deer in acre after acre of corn (or through the fog, or with wet snow reducing visibility in the woods to 25 yards) as you can when the corn is down, and when visibility is limited only by the stand you chose, you're dreaming.
We made small group pushes the past three days and saw more deer than in the first six combined. More shots, more dead deer. One giant still running. Several younger bucks allowed a pass. Many antlerless seen and some targeted and hanging.
As far as up north goes, I don't think for a second that anyone believed the kills wouldn't be down dramatically after back-to-back tough winters, buck-only hunts in many areas and far lower hunting pressure.
Turkeyhunter's Link
In my opinion after four years its a real cluster...
I'm surprised you didn't pick-up on the hapless deer shot from a corn pile.
Seems you've now made the Dean's List...
I say we organize a 2015 boycott of all deer licenses ... only way to get their attention is through their wallet... they loose a few hundred thousand tags sold...it's will be a wake up call.. I have boycotted gun season for 4 seasons already... I refuse to pay them for what they have done to our hunting..
20 deer starve to death in farmland habitat. Is this something to be proud of? Is it respectful of the resource? Or vivid evidence of failed policy?
Nothing wrong in holding elected officials responsible for their actions. Or lack therof.
AW, been hearing the boycott talk since '06 or so, maybe earlier. Thousands of hunters might be doing that each year, but it's a drop in the bucket vs. other reasons for not hunting. ALIS system stats show more than one million different individuals purchase deer hunting licenses in Wisconsin in a five-year period. That's a lot of turnover, sometimes forever (death, disability, quit hunting, etc.), sometimes just a year or more for personal reasons (health, death in family, loss of favored hunt area, baby on the way or just born, etc.). To each their own.
"Howatt" please stick to one name or the other. Throwing red herrings every now and then didn't work. Your earliest posts (and again some of your latest) confirmed your ID. Why continue the charade?
Feel for you guys in the other Northern Forest counties. Too bad the feds won't let anybody harvest any trees in Vilas and Oneida counties, etc. A forest, especially a national forest needs to be managed, not left untouched for decades. The very people that want to "save" the forest and animals that live in it by prohibiting logging, have done major damage to both over the last 20 years. The anti-logging groups are the same people that want you to believe that wolves are non-harmful peaceful animals instead of the killing machines they actually are.
All we need to do to solve the Wolf problem in the state is turn six of them lose in Dane County.
The 4 cardinal directions are north, south, east and west. A compass is divided into 4 quadrants, each containing 90 degrees.
If you divide the quadrant between North and East exactly in half at a 45 degree angle you would be going exactly NE.
The same goes for any other quadrant, half way between North and West is NW, half way between South and East is SE and Half way between South and West is SW.
On this map of WI I attempted to divide the state into 4 quadrants. My dividing lines are just eyeball guesses.
A line drawn at a 45 degree angle going NE goes right through Forest and Florence Counties. They are in the NE part of the state. Any county in that quadrant could be called NE but Forest and Florence are definitely the most NE or "far NE"
East Central would be more like Kewaunee and Door Counties.
Green County would be South Central, Pierce would be West Central and Iron would be North Central.
Now that we have that straightend out, carry on...
I will continue my personal boycott... I know I am not alone as many folks are that sick of the crap in the deer woods... yes
It does amount to a drop in the bucket as Naz Says.. but purchasing licenses is your vote supporting present practices.. your only vote.. as long as you keep voting yes by buying tags.. nothing will or can ever be expected to change...
So I am one of the few guys who has killed plenty of deer.. I could care less if I kill another WI deer.. until things change I won't purchase (vote yes)
I did deer hunt in other states where the herd is in better shape. If you harvested a deer in 2014 north of Highway 8......... then you are part of the problem in that geographic area. The herd needs a break!
Always amazes me how so many cannot think for themselves, they rely on the DNR to mandate their harvest when they know the herd is not in good shape. How can anyone complain about the northern deer herd, then go kill one? Think for yourselves and practice what you preach, stop being DNR puppets.
Blaming the prior administration holds no water.
Can't blame the DNR/NRB anymore since they've got nothing to say about it - they have to follow executive and legislative policy.
Hunting sucks in the north and deer numbers are exploding in other locales.
Deer management now is a one-size-fits-all formula that is wielded like a blunt instrument. You'd think someone would be bright enough to figure out that management has to be more nuanced?
When the final numbers come in the recriminations will follow.
Northern District 2014
COUNTY BUCKS ANTLERLESS TOTAL ?ASHLAND BAYFIELD DOUGLAS FLORENCE FOREST LANGLADE 228 666 612 322 293 644 27 1155 72 81 60 62 152 5 255 BARRON 1176 2331 738 BURNETT 693 156 849 693 382 355 IRON 54 59 796 LINCOLN ONEIDA 509 544 139 92 648 636 POLK PRICE RUSK 1520 370 597 1588 49 143 3108 419 SAWYER VILAS Total 376 10222 56 67 95 4127 740 432 TAYLOR 534 369 128 662 436 WASHBURN 715 810 14349
I had a feeling I could get you to rise to the bait. You're so easy.
No Walker derangement here. I live around the corner from him in Tosa. As evidence of my open-mindedness I'll bet you've never sprung for a corporate table at a Chamber of Commerce address. Hmmm?
I didn't think so.
My bone to pick is the mash made out of deer policy in this state. It is a cluster.
Walker and the legislature rolled-back everything four years ago. Do you honestly take pride in starving deer in farm country habitat? Timber producers taking a hit as a consequence of burgeoning deer numbers? I think we know about how you feel about rifle hunting over corn. You have no credibility any longer. None.
A normal person wouldn't become so unwound over someone taking exception with elected officials. I call sycophant.
Go get a grip.
Couldn't hack it as a outdoor writer so now is more into role playing and drama..
This is a bow hunting site is it not???
GEESH . I Thought for a moment I logged into All My Children for pets sake..
I agree with Sawtooth.. not enough deer to warrant any harvesting in the north... or the 19 decimated counties... if your shooting deer you are the problem...
Not the wolves..
A "total flop?" Your words. In light of the FACT that it is in its infancy, what crystal ball do you have that you can proclaim it a total flop?
Sorry buddy, it is you who pontificate. You are pompous and a blow hard. Now give your arm a rest. As much self back-patting as you do, it surely is tired.
Wow, I really can't respond without "bashing" on the ignorance of your post. Up until this season, deer were managed by the old guard and Deer 2000. If you want to place blame, blame that. If you want to go on a political tirade, you're a month too late and might want to save your energy for 3 1/2 years from now.
"DTr and kroll did nothing for the public land guy."
Separation of public/private antlerless tags doesn't help? What exactly would you have done other than "hunt like I hunt" with the elimination of practices you don't agree with?
It was fairly obvious the 2014 harvest and license sale would be down. Regardless of management plan in place, nothing could have prevented last winter. The entire state was hit, especially in the northern forest. Did we carry too many, too few or just enough population to prevent a winter kill? Even the biologists I spoke with were shocked on how severe it was.
So Turkeyhunter...... which is it as your talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are complaining about how poor your hunt was(which I'd imagine is a lack of deer sightings) but preach on how the DNR biologist should manage it accordingly. If we would have carried a high population into last year, you would have had more winter kill. If your DNR biologist could have foreseen last winter, there would have been a significant more tags to carry a very small population into the winter to prevent it.
I seriously don't believe some people actually understand the new deer management program. How similar they are, yet the few differences which help sportsmen/women.
The slow roll out was on purpose. We were selective who signed up and limited the amount. There was not enough "manpower" to handle the interested individuals but there is a request to add several more biologist to assist next year.
If you do not know the facts, please don't make the incorrect assumptions to try to support your opinion.
How will this help when things go to call iin registration and people just fudge where they shot the deer?
His post was deceiving and I stand corrected on "how poor his hunt was" after reading his article.
After reading his article, I know he doesn't understand the new management program.
Gas Pains......yep. I would need to enclose his entire article in "" and copy on here. He is SO far off on his article it's hard to believe anyone would publish it except the WI Democratic party.
Primary goal to manage to high numbers? One-size-fits-all approach to deer management? the insurance lobby?
Come on, Naz. IMO, you understand the new management program. Are we managing to high numbers as a goal? County based management after splitting the state in several zones is One-size-fits all?
"So here we are - four years later. License sales are lagging. The preliminary deer kill for the gun opener is the lowest it's been in a dozen years. Deer are starving in farmland habitat. Shooting deer off of a bait pile passes for hunting. Tree damage is so breathtaking I may as well let Scott Walker and the legislature pick my pockets. It’s pathetic from my point of view. A real cluster."
He still has no clue on when the new management program was set in place. He's just a Republican basher searching......
Yep, Gas Pains......after reading that.
Pineriver, I missed your earlier question. You could definitely find private land to hunt in Door and Kewaunee counties, without leasing (and find some to lease, too). There are quite a few parcels of forest crop, open MFL and crop damage lands available, plus some DNR lands and a lot of Nature Conservancy and Door County Land Trust properties. Most see few bow hunters. Gun season many of the smaller parcels get driven, but not all. We did one Sunday afternoon and moved four deer and saw no other human tracks in the snow except adjacent property owners heading to stand on edge. There are counties that produce far more deer and more trophies, however. Most years plenty of counties up north even produce more deer than Door and Kewaunee counties.
And the county can implement herd reduction tools, if needed, except EAB and T-zone. In fact, he could get involved in DMAP to reduce his population or allow other hunters access(if not already). If a landowner is truly saddened about the devastation of his or her trees, I'm sure it could be reduced.
If he truly understood what is and why DMAP, he'd understand this program is not a "One-size-fits-all approach". DMAP primarily is used in hot-spot areas to control that local population and not have it affect the unit/county as a whole.
None of you have a clue about my politics - only what is in your vivid imaginations.
The partisans are those trolls hanging around here who can only respond to a discussion of the facts with something about derangement.
More later. I have a day job.
Kind of like someone who pretends to be another person. Easy spot, and has been from day one.
Naz.. why is it this guy is obsessed with you and I???..
SEE A SHRINK ALREADY
If you do not know the facts, please don't make the incorrect assumptions to try to support your opinion."
Geitz, that's misleading. False, really. Even after many months of PR, the number that signed up by the first (May 30) deadline was 41 level 1 applications, 56 level 2 applications and 17 level 3 applications. That's it — in total. Forty-six counties and nearly 44,000 acres of land were represented.
Geitz is right on the money in stating that manpower was a limiting factor for both level 2 and level 3 participants. Instead of bashing a yet unproven idea, why not help support it and give it a chance? What had been being done certainly was accomplishing nothing.
Of course as most regular readers on this site know, your dislike for the governor will preclude you from supporting anything he is behind. Really a shame that you allow your partisan political agenda to cloud and belittle a new approach for deer hunters of the state.
Just like poaching a spike buck over a corn pile with a center fire rifle passes for hunting.
Aha. I get it.
With all due respect wrong assumption. And I want you to respect my response in an adult manner. I understand it completely.
Don’t fall for Kulas/Howatt/Rancid-Crabtree’s political rantings as he is without any further credibility or relevance. Internet trolls that are premeditated violators are unworthy of anyone’s attention or tolerance.
The reason I’m slamming the governor and the legislature over this is they’ve had four years to figure this out and made negative progress. On one hand they have a deer drought in part of the state and a deer explosion in other parts of the state. They appear to be like deer caught in the headlights. That’s not partisan – that’s the facts and someone has to be held accountable. Are you a business owner? In the real world a Board of Directors would fire the Chief Executive. In the political world you hold their feet to the fire. You don’t apologize for mediocrity, make excuses and plead for leniency.
I’ve told my county committee long before my blog post that I am sympathetic to their plight. If I had to bet they’re scratching their heads over how they’re going to reduce the exploding deer herd after the executive and legislature repealed the October antlerless hunt and EAB and let baiting and feeding continue to run out of control. One size fits all.
While everyone in Madison is standing around with their finger up their backside timber producers continue to get clobbered financially. I challenge you or anyone else to honestly defend that as a value proposition.
All the while license sales have dropped to the lowest levels since 1976 and the gun kill is the lowest in more than 30 years. If you take all of this in its totality it’s a cluster.
It was not manpower needed to find participants, it was the manpower needed to do site visits. How many are waiting is something I have no idea of.
Truth be told, November, you have simply used the DMAP program as a means to blow your own horn. You brag about how many trees you plant, how many deer you see, how many deer you shoot and how many deer you don't shoot. heck, you've done such a great job that your property can actually host crossbow hunters!
Now I know nothing about you or your property and apparently you are doing a good job managing it. That does not mean that others may not benefit from DMAP and I think you'd admit that.
So, now that you have paid yourself every accolade and blown enough smoke up your own backside to float a hot air balloon, is it really necessary to continue bashing a new program which you know nothing about, just to bolster your own ego?
Naz, to the contrary, there was a heck of a big limiting factor and that was the old DNR itself. From the poor relations that some wardens created with the public, to programs like T-Zones which caused an unmanageable drop in some deer populations, to EAB which forced some to kill a doe that they didn't want, the old DNR is by far the biggest limiting factor of any new DNR program. Unfortunately, DMAP is a program introduced by the DNR and it has the stigma of the old department to overcome.
That is something that will not go away overnight or over a year. Only time will tell if DMAP proves to be a viable program but to be given a fair chance, it needs support from people like you. Rather than touting what you see as shortcomings, you should be helping to raise awareness. Of course if you did that it would put you on the same side of the program as the governor, wouldn't it?
It's not right to have a landowner adjacent killing off deer.. and maybe landowners on several sides of another property owner doing it.. it's BS.. and a sad attempt at management at all as far as I can see.. and is exactly why there are no applicants.
DMAP was pushed by Dr. Kroll. I'm not totally opposed to it, though as I've said from the start many of the resources touted by the out-of-state experts were already available here for many years. Things like private land management and habitat improvement brochures and pdfs (available from DNR, WTU, NWTF and RGS), balancing deer numbers with habitat, a hunter's role in conservation, and many more. But the one thing that might help is meeting face-to-face with a DNR representative. Even though that opportunity has always been available through Wisconsin's extensive public involvement process (which included informal open houses every winter on DMUs, annual spring hearings, public hearings and meetings, etc.), an on-site visit might help clear up misconceptions about DNR employees sitting behind a desk. They'll find out that most of these guys and gals actually hunt — and know the woods, too.
I tried my damndest to get a couple neighbors to join me in forming a DMAP cooperative. Not a single one of the four I spoke with wanted anything to do with it when they learned that a DNR staffer would visit their property. I didn't foresee that as a problem but it sure was to them. Frankly, I don't think they are the only four people in the state who feel that way.
Your response is as predicted:
1."Don’t fall for Kulas/Howatt/Rancid-Crabtree’s political rantings"
2."The reason I’m slamming the governor and the legislature"
3."......" awe, you missed it. Better check up on the procedure and blame WBH.
Again, Deer 2000 and it's management plan has been used until....say it with me.....this fall. The change was a process, and not a quick one, to insure all user groups and interested parties gave input. Why would any government jump without looking? YOU have a deer management issue, an issue which did not start 1,2 or 3 years ago. Prior deer manangement took away your precious EAB and Oct Zone T, not current government. The distaste for EAB and it's over use did away with that. The lack of Zone T harvest, hunter participation and hunter distaste did away with that too. If Walker would never had beat Barrett, both would have been dead regardless.
You continue on with your rambling to try to make people believe the current administration is the reason we are where we are at with deer management. We are where we are because of the previous administrations actions and the distrust in the DNR.
Your posts and blog is politically motivated. Your post here follow the 3 step process: Republican hate, Kulas and probably WBH.
Please and in detail, give use the the real differences of the two management plans. If you understood, you'd know the counties could/can use other tools in herd reduction and the change is not that different.
You complain about too many deer eating all your trees but speak about huge drop in license sales and lowest harvest in 30 year out of the other side of your mouth. Which is it and how much are you going to beat up the Doyle administration for it?
You also represent the same individuals who testified, with a lack of science, in overbrowse issue at the Capital. The same people who ripped out a living tree as the last soul survivor of a line of trees which survived overbrowse; then....after testimony of scientific fact, threw a fit and tossed the tree in the garbage outside the hearing room. The Senate committee got a chuckle with that. To top it off, your Doyle administration head of forestry inquired about the science as he had never heard about two of the most detail overbrowse studies ever completed.
Ask Smokey about timber, forestry and the problems they're having. Again, you blame the current administration only because it isn't being done but in reality, it is your organizations who love the big ol' trees. Shall I get into the real issue of regeneration in these parts and start quoting UW Biologist your orgs hold in high regards?
"And I want you to respect my response in an adult manner."
I sure would have until you went on the childish rampage of the three step process stated above. I respect the fact you love trees, your passionate about politics and your a retired bartender.
So would you like to discuss regeneration, the current deer management program or should I just expect a Republican, Kulas or WBH remark?
I think this way you and I and anybody reading will know we are having a civilized and intelligent discussion.
I propose ground rules:
We can agree to disagree
No name calling
One topic at a time
Topics in order of difficulty - easiest first
I propose we start with WBH
Tell me where I stated: " awe, you missed it. Better check up on the procedure and blame WBH.
Not true. EAB and October antlerless hunts have been off the table for years now. Most here think that's a good thing. But those tools could be handy in units where CDACs would like to see a decrease in the local deer numbers. There are 10 CDACs recommending herd reduction. These groups all have a majority of members who hunt.
EAB and Tzone hunts were not part of Deer 2000, they were tools added for herd control. The thought process of biological/social goals, managing deer to a number, the use of SAK to manage to a number, etc....continued until this season.
CDACs have enough tools in the box for herd control.
And those tools are.....?
The challenge is convincing people to shoot does and reduce the breeding population. Many of the old timers are still convinced we're one year away from the deer population of 1959.
I'm going to the SB meeting on the 15th. I know a number of those committee guys and want to hear what other hunters have to say.
It is not a method that will sit right with the majority of hunters (as has already been demonstrated) and the CDAC's will simply need to find alternative methods to control populations in over-populated areas. Not all hunters want county-wide QDM.
Baiting deer does not sit well with the majority of hunters either... yet they still allow it... it's a much worse practice then EAB.
What we really need is another hunting org... and or another BS public input committee to resolve our deer issues...LOL... they have been doing such a bang up job thus far.... LMAO
After CWD was discovered it was followed by a single season statewide moratorium on baiting. That was the best year for us ever. Deer moving during daylight hours and not lured away from the nonbaiters.
What we really need is less of your BS.
But truths that are inconvenient. .. suck...
How are all those big block buster deer committee clowns going to boast their efforts turned things around when.... wait for it... THEY DID NOTHING!!
All that BS.. for zero.. you guys must be so proud..LOL..
