Contributors to this thread:
If you knew someone that didn't take there hunting course but got a hunting licence from a friend that runs a tackle shop and is posting pics of deer he shot on facebook what could I do
What he has done by law is illegal. The question is, is the law to force hunters ethical? That being said, you his license is bought and paid for, thetherefore he paid his tax. The next thing you have to ask yourself, are you positive he does not have his certificate. If he doesn't, is the tackle shop responsible for issuing a license without credentials
depends on good a friend he is i guess...gun or bow .?..maybe deep or dps and drop a dime
Not that good of a friend and I'm positive he was bragging about it to a view of us
If he's a ethical responsible hunter who bought a license and follows the rules and does what he should.besides signing up for that dumb class...I'd leave it alone...those hunter safety courses are just another fee to squeeZe people for a few more bucks to hunt....more power to him for dodging the man if you ask me.....
It is impossible to buy a license without taking the course or being grandfathered in, I don't care if he knows a shop owner or not. The system that the shops use is exactly the same one that you use when going online to buy your license, if he never took his course he is not in the state system and he will not be given the option on the site to buy the license
There we go, no longer a problem!
"those hunter safety courses are just another fee to squeeZe people for a few more bucks to hunt....more power to him for dodging the man if you ask me....."
Really? Are you aware that the courses are free?
hh,the program the tackle shops use are a bit different than the ones on line,theirs shows the can not get licesense xd out and tells whyand what violations against them..
How long ago did this happen?
If you have his say-so that he didn't take the course, are you sure he didn't lie to you, testing you for some reason?
If they cheated on this point of law, what's next? Poaching?
It sounds just plain stupid to me. They could give hunters a bad name.
Besides what Ace wrote, "signing up for that dumb class"? We take people who have no hunting knowledge and turn them into the "ethical responsible hunters" you seem to be ok with. BUT THEN: "More power to him for dodging the man if you ask me"? Doesn't sound like very ethical or responsible behavior to me.
Exactly the type of person I don't want to share the woods with.
Turtle... It's people like you that don't appreciate what we as instructors do for new hunters. As Ace said, the class is FREE and we do not get paid to give it. We volunteer our time to present the class, and if you found it to be "dumb" then you simply didn't pay attention. I sacrifice my time from the woods, water or my family to help you. I'm sorry that you missed the value in taking a hunter safety class and don't appreciate the experience and information we gave you for free. I don't see how that person could buy a license without having a class registration card go through the DEEP office.
Have to remember you only have to show a hunting license from another state and proof you now live here so that case he wouldn't be in the ct state system. So yes it is possible if the shop owner signed off on it . I would turn the both of them in . But make sure you can prove it and if not I would leave it alone . Because as of now it's hear say .
Years ago my grandfather just emigrated here from Jordan. He befriended a local sherif and the sherif was an avid hunter/fisherman. Long story short: he fast tracked my grandad without requiring him to take the safety course. The man responsible for teaching me how to handle, shoot and care for our environment? My grandad. How long has that hunter safety course been required?
To get a bow hunting license in CT you must show a certificate from an approved safety course so it's not enough to just show a license from another state.
Hunting license (firearms)is a different story.
I was way before hunter safety course but had about 5 years then I had to take it. The only way he could get by is if the guy filled out the papers for the course with out him taking it but I don't think so
I'm disappointed to read some comments that say the safety course is a waste of time!! These are the guys I don't want to hunt anywhere near! This is one reason why I hunt with a bow because the gun guys scare me at times, and I'd rather come home at end of the day.
I have stated before that I have zero tolerance for anyone who breaks the law, and I have no problem turning them in, and I have it done it several times in the past.
I would call the DEEP and let them know the story and have them get the facts.
If the guy is a safe ethical hunter no problem. Another victim less crime. Who is he harming by not taking the class? Same as driving 56 mph on the higway when limit os 55. who is he hurting. If he does something wrong to harm himself or others another story.
Onthehunt, You say "If the guy is a safe ethical hunter no problem. " How would we know if he is or not? Are you aware that since Hunter Safety classes were implemented and made mandatory that hunting related accidents have dropped nationwide tremendously? The fact that a person has taken and passed a Hunter Safety classes insures that he has at least been exposed to information about both ethics and safety.
If you think it's indeed "another victim less crime". , why not let the guy hunt your spot? That way if he's not safe, you'll be the only one affected. The rest of us would rather have legal hunters near us.
Safe, ETHICAL hunters abide by the laws, not find ways around them. If he's willing to break that law then that means he's willing to break others, like shooting after sunset or at shadows. I hope I'm wrong!!
Ask George Case down in North Carolina what he thinks about safe and ethical hunters. Oh wait, you can't! He was the first archery fatality in NC in the 40 years they've been keeping records. On Sept 18 he was shot by a "friend" with a crossbow who "mistook" him for a whitetail. Guess that guy didn't pay too much attention in his safety class (if he even took one).
Hunter safety is the main concept we stress in our bow classes, and most of our students come up and thank us after class for teaching them what they need to be safe in the woods. Many of them have no clue whatsoever, and it's gratifying to see the lights go on as we instruct. I feel much safer in the woods knowing that fellow hunters had to take this instruction.
This is a really stupid argument. The law is there for very good reason. THANK YOU to those that donate their time to educate new hunters.
I've taken the course 3 times just to stay current of laws that changed and a friend wanted to hunt and needed someone to drive them so I retook it and was glad I did .You learn alot from the teachers and I think its good to refresh your mind about safety and you gain alot of encouragement to hold off for better deer talking to the instructors.
I personally couldn't care less whether a guy takes the class or not.
Ever hunter SHOULD care about safety in the field. I can assure you that if we started having consistent safety problems the state would take actions to limit or possibly shut down cetain types of hunting, especially in a state like CT.
Let me say this.Their is a thing called bad karma,What goes around comes around.It happens most every time.
I would like to thank all the instructors who give there time to teach this course. My 3 boys just took this course in durham last week and came home and proceeded to tell me everything they learned. Now these boys have been in the woods their whole life fishing and going on the hunts with me and thought they knew everything. Thx again to the instructors.
I think every hunter should take the course. Without safety and ethics nothing good happens and puts us all at risk. our safety and our reputation as stewards of the woods are compromised.
Toonces, so you think someone should be able to buy a hunting license, buy a gun and walk into the woods with no proof of any training? You think that's ok?
Treeman,
Yes that is what I think.
You want to hand someone a LETHAL weapon like a gun with no training and tell them to walk in the woods with it to shoot things???
No concern for distance from occupied buildings, identifying your target, carry in a safe position, carry with safety on, legal hunting hours, safe transportation, safe storage, etc, etc, etc???
Don't get your panties in a twist, I never said that.
What I said was no proof training should be required to hunt.
Having proof of being trained doesn't mean that the "trained person" will have concern for any of the things you list anymore than the "untrained person" will not have concern.
If the person acts negligently and causes harm there are regulations on the books to punish those crimes and remedies at commonlaw for the victims of such harm. Whether someone is trained or not is irrelevant to that.
Venture to guess that more people are put at risk in this country from owning pools or power tools, yet we typically don't require a license or state sponsored training for that. We rely on existing long standing remedies if someone commits a criminal act or does something stupid. There is no reason why hunting should be any different.
Don't get your panties in a twist, I never said that.
What I said was no proof training should be required to hunt.
Having proof of being trained doesn't mean that the "trained person" will have concern for any of the things you list anymore than the "untrained person" will not have concern.
If the person acts negligently and causes harm there are regulations on the books to punish those crimes and remedies at commonlaw for the victims of such harm. Whether someone is trained or not is irrelevant to that.
Venture to guess that more people are put at risk in this country from owning pools or power tools, yet we typically don't require a license or state sponsored training for that. We rely on existing long standing remedies if someone commits a criminal act or does something stupid. There is no reason why hunting should be any different.
Don't get your panties in a twist, I never said that.
What I said was no proof training should be required to hunt.
Having proof of being trained doesn't mean that the "trained person" will have concern for any of the things you list anymore than the "untrained person" will not have concern.
If the person acts negligently and causes harm there are regulations on the books to punish those crimes and remedies at commonlaw for the victims of such harm. Whether someone is trained or not is irrelevant to that.
Venture to guess that more people are put at risk in this country from owning pools or power tools, yet we typically don't require a license or state sponsored training for that. We rely on existing long standing remedies if someone commits a criminal act or does something stupid. There is no reason why hunting should be any different.
Toonces,
I'll keep my panties in a twist because you're comparing a swimming pool confined to their yard, and a power tool that they will only cause an injury to themselves; to someone with a gun who could shoot a child in a yard or me in the woods. Your arguement doesn't hold logic.
Find a better comparison, like why make poeple take driving tests??? They shouldn't need to learn safe driving techniques, right!!?? Just put them in court system if they speed and kill a family of 4, right?
I think I need to go put my trigger lock on my Dewalt 3/8" drill and store the drill bits in a separate locked box now.
Wow, that was a special kind of stupid...
Sorry about the triple post, unintentional.
Sorry about the triple post, unintentional.
It's a very fair comparison.
Lawnmowers, weedwackers etc are dangerous to a lot more than the users themselves.
Pools are equally dangerous to anyone swimming, not just the owners.
If you are negligent and fire a gun at someone's dwelling or residence or within 500 feet of a house you are already guilty of crime whether you took a class to educate you to not do that doesn't matter either way.
Maybe the most dangerous activity humans can take part in is parenthood. There is no certification required for that. You just take the helpless infant home with and society expects that you will use some common sense and additionally obey the laws on the books to protect children.
What I see all these state certification requirements for hunting (and some of you have argued that more certification/training ought to be required) what I see is that we have bought into the assumption that anyone who wants to go hunting must by definition lack the common sense and reasonableness to do it safely and within the requirements of the law so we need the state to step in and "train" these would be criminals and dangerous folks to not be dangerous and be safe.
Frankly I find the training and certification requirements to be insulting to hunters and hunting generally, but the vast majority of us have bought into it.
Toonces,
how about an 18 yr old who never held a gun before let alone hunt with one. Do they have the same level of common sense you refer to? Should they be required to take a safety course or are you ok with handing them a gun, a box of cartridges and say "Have at it sport!"
When I bought my first motorcycle at the age of 46 I went through the safe driver class. Why? Because I never assume I have all the answer, especially with something I have zero experience with. I learned more about driving safely in that class then I did in the first 30 years of driving.
I hate government intervention in my life as well, but "common sense" tells me that we need to have training to use a lethal weapon, whether it's a car or a gun. The only other option is to move to Alaska and live off the grid.
BBB,
I thought I answered the question clearly already, but again the 18 year old should not be required to be hunter trained, certified or whatever to go hunting, whether he has held a gun in his life or not.
There are criminal/game laws in place that he or she has to follow, and basic standards of conduct and reasonableness that the law also requires in the civil context. That ought to be enough in my opinion.
I keep telling my friend that I am amazed we share the woods with certain dum-dums. He agrees.
You can't make this stuff up.
If you hear about how important, great and vital hunter training classes are for long enough, over and over again, you just believe it without ever questioning it. Heck why would anyone question it, Hunter Safety Class, it does have a certain feel good ring to it for sure. I mean only dudes with tinfoil hats would ever think that it's not a great idea, right?
I don't expect you to agree with me (although a dum-dum I ain't), but it wouldn't hurt to question your assumptions a bit once in a while, that's all.
Do you know why workplace incident ratings are so much lower now then 50 years ago? Education my friend!!! Mandatory programs!!!
The Fact remains, the law is on the books. Someone's opinion on the worth or validity of the law doesn't address the OP's question.
More regulation is always solution to our problems. I have been thinking for a long time about those darn chainsaws. After all what if someone were to walk by when a tree was being cut and it fell on them. Even worse. What if it was a child! We must save the childeen. Same thing eating your vegetables. Think of all the lives we can save with mandatory prgorams there too. We must thank bloomberg for his soda limit that's the first step.
First hand experience tells me an 18 yr old knows nothing about gun safety, for his own sake or others. Years ago, before the mandatory safety classes were in place, I took my friend's son hunting with me, he had just purchased his first license at the age 18.
The first thing I see is he's walking around with his safety off! I asked him why and he said "What if a bird flushes, how am I going to shoot it" A few minutes later we stopped for a break and while sitting on a log his gun goes off, right next to me. I asked him what happened and he said he wanted to see if it was loaded, so he pulled the trigger. I never took him out again.
How is someone supposed to obtain common sense with a gun if they don't know what common gun sense is?? There's got to be a training process to gain knowledge. You're either getting it first hand by making mistakes and learning from them ( not a good with guns) or you learn about them in a class to educate yourself. Education is the key to hunter safety.
You can take the Big Brother Watching-fobia and hunt by yourself. I would much rather hunt with 5 guys who took the class than 1 guy who didn't.
onthehunt
I agree with your comment about the government getting it's hand into things that limit our freedom of choice, like what kind of soda and how much I want to drink.
But using that arguement to justify NOT taking a gun safety classes is insane in my opinion. I say you should hunt and shoot with all of the guys that don't take the class and I'll hunt with the ones that do. I think in time,....my problem will be solved.
Common sense does not come out of safety classes. Understanding all the legalities involved with hunting in this twisted state almost requires a college degree. That's what hunter safety classes are for in my opinion. An 18 year old kid with zero gun handling experience vs one that has been exposed to, has experienced, and has been properly directed with firearms are beyond comparison. It all starts at home. I got a daisy BB gun under the tree at 8, got a 22 at 12, and killed my first 8 point with my new .270 at 14. There should be a natural progression involved, unfortunately guns and children have been stigmatized, and society in general is screwed up beyond belief thanks to anti gun politics and the government controlled media.
Hey simple, did you ever turn the guy in? You should turn in the guy at the tackle shop as well.
Grizz
so what do we do with the young hunters who didn't have the same opportunity as you did to be EDUCATED about hunting and gun safety by their fathers growing up? Do we say the class room is no place for you to learn gun safety? It doesn't matter that you don't have someone to show you how to handle a gun safely, just get out there and if you shoot off you foot, then the current laws will take care of you??
I can't believe we're discussing whether or not education about gun safety is a good thing or a bad thing!! This is like giving someone a glass of poison and saying go ahead and drink it because you won't know for sure what will happen unless you do.
Is it gun safety or common sense? Make up your mind. Shoot off a foot and learn a good lesson in common sense. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I don't think safety classes are not a good thing.
I'm not a fan of lots of government intervention. However, there are reasons why some times the government needs to do so. I dont always agree with the approach taken, but the concept some times is just needed.
Hunter ed, to me, is a simple course to get key basic points out of the way. It's not supposed to be graduate level study of hunting.
The sad reality is that people are idiots. More people are idiots than we realize. And if you add in the excitement of hunting, people can some times become bigger idiots. The people that post and discuss and interact on a site like this are 10%ers. Meaning it's the upper end of the sport who really love the heck out of it and care. That's why we debate and discuss this stuff.
The regular joe hunter may really be helped by the class. He/she may learn things they were unsure of or did not know. They may see things they are unaware of and they may simply make some friends.
It's a zero loss issue to me. A hunter may learn and make some friends, that's all good.
I'm not sure if the original ? Was even answered with everything going on in this post but it IS possible to get a License with out the class. At a bait and tackle shop the computer software is different then what we use at home. All the clerk is required to do is SEE the certificate and hit a button on the screen saying they saw it. Hate to say it but I've seen it done for a whole group of guys I don't think on purpose just an uneducated clerk who knew none of the rules
but doesn't the state DEEP file have to verify that there's a safety course certificate on record? I find that amazing.
if your on your home computer and tried to get a bow or gun license without a saftey class or cert that area would be greyed out meaning that your unable to get it..on a tackle shop system its the same grey but with x's running through it with an explaination of why you would be uneligable..itll also tell the owner of any hunting/fishing violations..if someone came in and claimed they need a reprint the tackle shop would then scan the persons drivers licesence again showing if theyre eligable..sometimes there are gitches in the system but its usualy not operator error
I think the way it could've been done is that his friend just submitted the papers to the DEEP without him taking the class. In that case, it will be imposible to prove. Let it go, there is nothing you can do. Cheaters are going to cheat, just shake it off. ohh ohh, shake it off, shake it off...
I work with the licensing computer everyday. You scan drivers license it come up greyed out you the. Select that they showed u certificate then they greyed out goes away with out putting any certificate numbers in. I've seen illegal license handed out a number of times
as a hutner education instructor for over 25 years now I have seen all kinds come through my classes, guys that had hunted for years and those that never even held a gun or bow before. and I've only had one old timer that continued to tell me it was a waste of time. The best part is I found out he was there for remedial training because he lost his license for doing something wrong and by the answers he gave me he didn't have a clue about the regulations. The 8 hours for bow or 16 hours for gun is not long enough to truly figure out if someone is RESPONSIBLE enough to hunt plus that's not the mission. It's NOT just a safety course, but a Hunter Education course. Much more is covered then just safety and ethics however those two topics are constantly refereed to throughout. Our goal is to introduce and familiarize them with all aspects of hunting including safe handling of hunting equipment not just guns and bows, but tree stands and other equipment.
Not everyone has someone to introduce them or mentor them in hunting sports or firearms and safety and this is one place you can get all that. I get abosutly nothing but a free shirt and hat for all that free time I've given up and I do it to give back to a sport I enjoy so much and hopefully I can help those just starting out get on the right track to a safe and successful hunting career.
Just as you wouldn't let your teenage kid get behind the wheel of a car without SOME type of training, you shouldn't allow someone in the woods with equipment designed to kill without some basic training. Even the military doesn't hand you a gun and say charge!
Proof of an archery specific safety course from any state is mandatory to purchase a license. For firearms, you are either grandfathered, need a hunter ed class or show proof of a resident license from another state to get a firearm hunting license. Now I have no clue if the System allows for DEEP to follow up on those certificate/license numbers from other states or not.
Well said Passinthru63. I've taught classes with Jim and people are lucky to be instructed by such a passionate and knowledgeable hunter and instructor.
I've taken the bow class twice (ny and ct) and attended a total of 6 times bringing kids and wife. The gun safety class 4 times. I enjoyed the classes every single time and learned something new every time too.
Back in the Dark Ages, I took the BowHunter Education course in New Jersey.. At the time I lived in Massachusetts, but my best friend live in NJ and had access to some great hunting spots..Since at the time every state recognized NJs course as being acceptable in there state, I didn't mind trekking there 2 weekends in a row. The course was given over 2 weekends both Saturday and Sunday 4 hours each day. They not only covered safety and educated you on the regulations, but they also taught how to track, field dress etc. I'm glad I took the course there. I attended a CT course with my son and while it covered what he needed to know, it wasn't as comprehensive as the one I took over 30 years ago.
I was certified in instructing the Connecticut bowhunting safety course in the past, and participated in teaching new hunters. There was a lot of good information for young and old, new and experienced hunters in that course. Two reasons to do it: It's good, and it's the law. But am I inclined to drop a dime (shows my age, pay phones used to cost a dime) on a guy who used connections to circumvent the law? No, I am not.
If you are apathetic regarding certain behaviors then you are in fact condoning them. Seems to me that cicumvention of established law is disrespectful to those that follow the law, irresponsible and ultimately criminal.
Dr Deer
How can you teach other people about hunting, the morally correct and ethical approach to being good stewards of our sport, and then do nothing when the laws you teach about are ignored. You tell them here are laws and regulations, but if you see someone jacking a deer or taking 6 turkeys just walk away.
It's like teaching a DUI class and then not calling the cops on one of your students leaving the class drunk!! Makes no sense to me. Totally hypocritical in my opinion.
What am I missing here?
