Quality Deer Management Cooperative
Wisconsin
I've decided to start a QDM Cooperative in west central Wisconsin area. To start, I am planning to send a letter to landowners in 20 sections, 12,000+ acres. We have landowners with 10 acre farmsteads up to several hundred acre farms and everything in between.
In this area our deer population is on the low side, "low to medium" is how a DNR Forester and DNR Wildlife Biologist described it to me. We have the genetics, good habitat, the main thing missing is letting a few more bucks reach maturity.
I was born and raised here, my mom as well, she still lives on the family farm. Over the past several years we've seen about the same number of deer. We never have been one of places where the deer have been over populated. I've noticed that we are seeing more and have trail camera photos of more mature bucks. After a few phone call this fall and talking to some neighbors about QDM, it was no surprise to me to find out others like us are passing up small bucks. Of course, there are some that aren't.
What are your thoughts?
If you received a letter in the mail regarding a QDM Cooperative, what would you think? How would you respond?
What suggestions can you give me in setting up a QDM Coop?
BC
Post this thread on the qdm site for feedback Nice plan and approach not all will but in which is fine goodluck
There will always be people that agree but then cheat. Educating hunters in the area about qdm will benefit everyone. Setting quotas for does, passing small bucks, planting food plots, planting trees for cover, clear cuts and logging are some of the topics we discuss with all neighboring properties.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm meeting with the Regional Director for QDMA and will run my plans by him. I also ordered a pamphlet from QDMA on how to start a coop. I will post on the QDMA website, good idea.
There would be no cost to join, no penalties for non complying or cheating - totally free and voluntary. My idea is to spread the word to others what we are doing, it's already working, and how they can get involved. I don't have the time or desire to police what others are doing. I guess I look at this coop as more of an educational thing, letting others know what is being done and will continue to be done in the area, etc.
We would make recommendations only, it would be up to each landowner on how they want to proceed. BC
BC, free and voluntary is the way to go. You'd be surprised what word of mouth does. There are a number of these in Door and Kewaunee counties, all pretty small overall, but the impact has been big. It gained steam after more folks saw what happened in '97 and '98, after many hunters in '96 had to pass up bucks because they hadn't shot a doe first. Plenty of guys got their biggest buck ever in one of the next two years, and many saw far more mature bucks than they'd ever seen before. Mistakes happen, and shouldn't be penalized. That would take the fun out of hunting fast. And if someone young or old or in between decides for one reason or another to take a younger buck now and then (for example, it's their first/last hunt, or the deer is walking wounded, etc.), so be it.
Naz, good to hear about the groups in the other counties. This coop would add to the fun that we in the area are already experiencing is my hope. Yes, exception to young/first time hunters and special circumstances. BC
Naz, you are right on! I live in racine county and hunt directly on the Kenosha racine county line. (When I hunt down here). Most of my hunting is done eleseware. With EAB the last few years I have seen a great improvement in the age structure and daytime movement of bucks down here. I have also seen two of the biggest bucks I have seen on the hoof down here. No shots at either because I hadn't earned my buck yet but that doesn't matter, it was Awsome just to see them.
Lets call it what it is, unionized deer hunting! Who really benefits and can you actually keep everyone on board. I have tried for 9 years in my area and am resigned to fact it will never work. Too many guys feel the need to something, anything. Just reality!
10, it's actually the opposite of unions where all are treated equal with no reward or consequence for busting butt or slacking. Private QDM is capitalism at it's best.The Cedarburg bog is union deer hunting.
I just do my own thing. Could care less about everybody else, it is their choice how and what they hunt. We all hunt for different reasons, and I respect that.
What I do not understand is a hunter complaining that the deer herd is too low, then killing one.
Nov. respectfully that is total B.S. It may not sit well or make you feel good but, it is union hunting and same basic concept. If you are hunting on a property next to mine and there are three property owners agreeing to a minimum 15 inch spread on any buck harvested and I shoot one with a 12 inch spread, I just violated the laws and rules of our three member union. It is what it is.
"There would be no cost to join, no penalties for non complying or cheating - totally free and voluntary. My idea is to spread the word to others what we are doing, it's already working, and how they can get involved. I don't have the time or desire to police what others are doing. I guess I look at this coop as more of an educational thing, letting others know what is being done and will continue to be done in the area, etc."
Sounds like a reasonable approach to me. It may work great, work a little, or not at all. Depends on the participants. Good Luck BC!
I completed a list of all the landowners in the 20 section area, close to 200 of them. I took out the very small acreages, less than 5 acres. I need to remove the duplicates. I'm in the process of adding in their addresses. By the time its all said and done I should have a mailing list of 180 landowners. BC
It will work, but not overnight. You will get people who will want to shoot a buck, just because it's a buck. That will never change. We have a pretty good group in Waupaca county. The hard part is getting everyone on the same page. It doesn't bother me. If you are happy with what you shoot, so am I. They are all trophies.
We have one guy who isn't a landowner and always complains that the "neighbors" aren't doing the right thing. I tell him that if he wants to complain, buy some land, put in the time, money and energy that it takes to do what a lot of the landowners do and then I will listen!
QDMA has a lot of good ideas that work. The hard part will be getting everyone on the same page.
Good Luck!
10orbetter-
The best way for your program to be a quick success is to print out a large plat map of the area and have landowners highlight their properties if they intend to practice QDM. Once those neighbors who are on the fence see how many other landowners are enthused, more will become involved. Still others will become interested several years down the road when they see the program's success.
BC, You may want to rethink the FB angle. Many guys don't want the public exposure. You could do a private yahoo group like our BSA troop did. Make sure they understand what true QDM is vs. TDM not a big fan of signage either as it tends to shine a spotlight (pun intended)and attract unwanted attention.
Update - I ended up sending out about 150 letters in the middle of December. I included an informational letter, a survey and a self addressed stamped envelope. From feedback from the initial mailing, I send out about 15 more to landowners adjacent to my target area. I received back 39 survey and about 10 phone calls or email responses. Almost all of the responses were QDM positive, the not so positive ones were mostly respectful but not interested (some had "interesting" comments I would say).
Mid February I sent out an invite to our first QDM Cooperative meeting, it was the first week of March. The meeting went very well. I had 20 landowners show up, I would say all were interested in QDM and some want to help me promote it. I had the local regional rep from QDMA in attendance and he talked about QDM and QDMA. A Wildlife Biologist from the DNR talk about DMAP and took questions on our local deer herd. I talked about our Coop and had a poster map with all of the interested landowners highlighted on the map. I handed out QDM signs, an order form from Deer Creek Seeds for food plot seeds, and informational brochures from the QDMA. All in all it was a great meeting!
Interest in QDM in the area is good, better than I thought. As of right now there are over 7,000 acres of landowners that are practicing QDM or interested in practicing QDM. Most of this acreage is already practicing some form of QDM. The map is really a great tool to show people thinking of practicing QDM. It looks like a checker board. I haven't heard from many of the landowners so I know as time goes more will be added to the map.
What's up next? Signs are going up as we speak. I think its an important part help spread the word. As time goes, as we grow, signs won't be needed as much. I plan on another mailing after the turkey season talking about the meeting and talking about the amount of land already in our coop. In August, another mailing inviting landowners/local hunters to a meet and greet potluck in September. An informal get together, a good time to meet the neighbors and show off 2015 trail cam photos, 2015 sheds, etc.
I have to say, this has been a ton of work. It's all been worth it. I am meeting some really nice people and I can see a lot of cool things coming from this. I would recommend everyone doing this if they can. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can.
If you have other ideas, any comments, etc., please post. It's a learning experience for me. BC
Sounds like it is coming together nicely. We took down all of our signs after finding 3 dead deer in the winter wheat field with their heads cut off.
Everyone knows where the deer are and who is on board and who isn't.
I hope it works out for you, like it has for us!
Bc, great work. Hopefully you have qdm guys vs. tdm guys. With 40% of mature bucks carrying cwd in areas it flys in the face of qdm. I am anti sign, dont care to advertise to shiners.
As of now, we aren't in the cwd zone. Someday, sooner than later, we will be. It will be interesting to see where this goes then.
I would say everyone I've talked to is interested in QDM vs TrophyDM. One landowner said he limits the people on his land shooting 150" bucks or bigger. The others seem to be holding out for 3.5 year olds or older.
Some people don't like the signs. I am recommending that we get out as many as we can to start. We are placing ours along major roads, next to open fields, or in front of homes. I think its the best way to get the word out at the beginning of this process. As time goes, the signs will get stolen/lost/destroyed, we won't replace them. I think it will get neighbors talking. I'm sure they will come down fast if we notice an increase in trespassing. BC
Tdm has nothing to do with score but rather not taking any doe even if needed for fear of bumping a buck off property. Qdma has a real conundrum with mature bucks carrying cwd. They have yet to take a stance on the issue. Hmmmm.
There are some very successful QDM areas within the cwd zones. As cwd spreads and grows within the areas it's already in, it will become an issue. Right now, that isn't a concern for our area, certainly it will be.
[I edited this to not get off topic] BC
Nov- why would they? What are you going to do on your land? Bring more hunters in and shoot every 1 1/2 yr old buck? Allow each hunter to shoot multiple bucks? With a easy winter and crossguns legal now, the buck kill will be high. Everything in nature runs it's course, it all balances out in the end.
BC, good luck! I am guessing some of those "interesting" conversations you had are what DNR has dealt with for decades, and why deer management will always fall back to people management.
"Naz, you are right on! I live in racine county and hunt directly on the Kenosha racine county line. (When I hunt down here). Most of my hunting is done eleseware. With EAB the last few years I have seen a great improvement in the age structure and daytime movement of bucks down here. I have also seen two of the biggest bucks I have seen on the hoof down here. No shots at either because I hadn't earned my buck yet but that doesn't matter, it was Awsome just to see them "
Wow never thought I would see something right about EAB so nicely. But I agree. A TOOL LOST BUT NOT FORGOTTEN IN MOST OF THE STATE! EAB = QDMA
What I find ironic about QDM is that for years some of its biggest proponents urged folks to shoot every doe on sight. Now some of those same people are yelling at the DNR about too few deer. I've seen it in WI and IL too.
"QDM Building Blocks
QDM guidelines must be tailored to each property, there are four cornerstones to all successful QDM programs: herd management, habitat management, hunter management, and herd monitoring.
Herd Management - Perhaps the most important part of QDM is herd management. Determining the appropriate number of deer to harvest by sex and age is essential. In many areas, deer populations are at or above optimum levels and herd stabilization or reduction is needed.
Habitat Management - Improving available nutrition is another important cornerstone of QDM. The diet of a healthy herd should contain 12 to 18 percent protein and adequate levels of calcium, phosphorous, and other important nutrients.
Hunter Management - Hunter management is a critical, yet often difficult aspect of QDM. Education is the key. Hunters must fully understand both the benefits and costs of QDM.
Herd Monitoring - Herd monitoring is the final cornerstone of QDM. Two types of data are commonly collected – harvest data and observation data. Harvest data should be collected from every deer taken or found dead on a property. Commonly collected harvest data include sex, age, weight, antler measurements, and reproductive information."
As the structure of the herd changes so does the harvest guidelines, nothing ironic about that. The issue is to be able to have the tools readily available to make those changes when/where needed.
People/hunter management is always the toughest part of the equation.
At our meeting we had Melinda Nelson, Assistant Deer Biologist, from the DNR talked about DMAP and our local deer herd. She did an outstanding job I have to say. She told me after she is used to off topic questions and welcomes them. She has taken a new position in Montana, working on her PHD. She will be missed. We talked a little about antler restrictions and EAB as well. She has worked for or with QDMA in Georgia I think and (to me) seems like a big supporter of QDM. BC
I hope it all goes well BC. Just out of curiosity, what county(s)? I tried this back in 97 in West Central WI (Pierce county) and the neighbors just scoffed. Now a few of those same neighbors sit our fence lines and benefit from our hard work.
RutNut, I would give it a try again. 1997 QDM in Wisconsin was something most people had never heard off and the hunting culture was different. Now, everyone has heard of QDM and there is much more interest in shooting a big buck. As you know, QDM is much more than shooting a big buck but that is why most hunters are interested in it and usually it's why they start to practice it. In 1995 a friend of mine started a cooperative in Marquette County. Most of his neighbors told him it would never work, some were even mad at him for sending a letter out. Within 5 years they started noticing a difference. Now, 20 years later, they are all on board and some of the non believers are the biggest supporters. He has since passed away but did shot the biggest buck of his life the year he died.
I was surprised by the positive responses I received. People calling/emailing/returning the survey and thanking me for starting this. The negative response were minimal and nice for the most part. Now, I haven't heard from the majority of landowners but my guess is that they are somewhat open to the idea, some I know are for it as well.
Anyway, get if a try again. It's really a great time to do this and the resources now vs. in 1997 are amazing. BC
Bc, are you forming a qdma chapter? There are only 2 in the state now.
No, not a chapter at this point. My focus now is my local area. Because of interest nearby I've already expanded some in the the neighboring sections. To start a chapter we need a larger area. I want to carry this as far as I can and then if it expands into a chapter, fine, but not now.
It surprised me that there area only 2 chapters in the state. Michigan has a lot more than we do. There are a lot of cooperatives in our state. I believe that Dustin, Regional QDMA Rep, is trying to convert these coops into chapters. He talked at our meeting and his focus was the benefits of forming a chapter. Anyway, we will see where this goes.
The QDM philosophy is really growing. You can't turn on a hunting show or open a hunting magazine with out hearing about it. The best time start a QDM Cooperative was 5 years ago...the second best time is today! BC
Go slow with qdma. They love chapters as 90% of all funds raised, banquets, ect. go back to the mothership in Ga. They are a southern based org. As far as going to bat for a local state deer issue? Forget it. They threw the Mn. members under the bus and hence the MDDI was born out of frustration. After 30 years they have 2 active chapters in the top whitetail state on the planet.They have now started a political org called NDA. Heck, qdma wont make a statement about growing mature bucks in the cwd hotzone knowing full well 40% carry the disease.You have the right approach, goodluck.
Did the QDMA thing about 15 years ago . Even helped run the fund raisers . Nov is right , if you go national your just lining some pockets some where else . Keep it local .
I tried very hard in Lincoln county for QDM . 3 of us property owners let a lot of 6 pointers walk so they could be gunned down by most other landowners .
Remember we have about 400 really good and serious bowhunters on bow site , about 8,000 serious hunters in the state . And 600,000 that will shoot anything with fur , and/or a few inches of antler . :-]
Bow Crazy , your a good guy and I wish you luck but WI will never be a QDM state .
"but WI will never be a QDM state "
You are spot on there. WON reported that WI ranked dead last of 37 states that comprise most of the nation's whitetail range in the killing of yearling bucks. 61% of the bucks killed in WI are 1.5 or younger.
To me, QDM is more than rack size of which I do not follow for QDM. QDM to me are habitat improvements for the well-being of the entire herd. Some areas just won't give up trophy deer due to lack of minerals, genetics, etc. I shoot what I am happy with.
Good luck BC. It seems like you have done a great job and have a great thing going.
Yep, qdm guys spend winters with invasive eradication, hinge cuts/tsi cuts, spring tree/shrub planting starts now, summer foodplot prep, ect. Herd management is frankly a small part of it which certainly takes less work.
After my brief experience at this, I respectfully disagree. I hope you guys are wrong. QDM is growing in Wisconsin, at least from the people I am talking to. No, not the QDMA folks, I'm talking to landowners and hunters. Since my first letter I've found out about 3 other groups like mine. Maybe they don't call themselves a coop, but they are a group of people practicing QDM. There have to be hundreds across the state. We need someone to unify them, maybe QDMA is that someone, I don't know.
A guy told me, if you shoot a 3.5 or older buck there is someone to thank for passing it up once or twice in it's life time. That's not an exact quote, but close. I believe that's true for the southern part of the state, the agriculture area. I started hunting in 1978, every buck we saw we shot, so did the neighbors. Now, that's just not the case. It hasn't been that way for years.
I read that too, 61% of the bucks killed in Wisconsin are yearling bucks. I don't have the numbers, several years ago or longer it was close to 80% or 90% I believe I read somewhere. Things are getting better, slow but sure. Arkansas is the lowest with 8%. I didn't see that coming.
Isn't our state the #1 P&Y and B&C state? Don't you think a lot of those bucks were passed up a time or two? There is a reason for that and one of them is that people practice some form of QDM, not all, but some I would think.
I could be wrong, heck, I've been wrong before. I do hope you guys are wrong. I'll bet you guys hope that you are wrong as well. Time will tell. For now, I going to keep driving on.
Yes, QDM is more than just about rack size. For me, I love habitat management more than most. It's one season for me that never closes.
Thanks for the feedback, this has been a fun discussion. BC
In areas I hunt I would say 60% practice a form of qdm. Passing small bucks and food plots have increased dramatically in the last 5 yrs. BC- It helps to hAve a meeting on your land to show guys the importance of treating invasives, planting trees for thermal cover, food plots, apple trees, etc.
Big difference from late 90s to today, and let 'em go, let 'em grow has been growing for two decades in much of the state, longer in select areas like Buffalo. Many more private landowners pass up yearling bucks than did 20 years ago, plenty pass 2.5s and some are even picky about what "3.5" they'll choose. Overall, very few practice true QDMA they way November described. If they only could see (track data) that by harboring so many deer they were keeping the weight and rack size down vs. a smaller, healthier herd, more would jump aboard. But I think most like a blend of QDM (quality) and "Qx2DM" (some quality and lots of quantity).
I'd support WTU before QDMA, by far, as half the money stays home and WI has the most chapters in the state and also benefits from a lot of state $ here.
Agree on NDA, the surveys I get seem to be a total "buy in" of Doc Deer-type talk, leading questions about predators, disease, state agencies, etc. vs. healthy numbers of deer on the planet (if QDM is indeed the "founder" of the group, you think they'd be more appreciative of a smaller national herd). I think it's geared more toward selling product and raising money but at least they recently named a national board. Will be interesting to see what they come up with. Last year's event was invite only, this year public is invited. Who knows what they'll morph into by next year.
Fyi naz, you had to buy your seat on the nda "board"
Bring back EAB to WI and use it every 4 or 5 years and you will see a lot of records broke in the years to come. EAB is the easiest form of herd management you can get. It is by far the best way to keep the herd healthy and strong.
And by the way WI is ranked in the high 30s low 40s for other things too. What a trend :)
Bonus bucks in the cwd zone is a form of eab. If cwd jumps species to livestock or humans deer hunting is over.
