Wisconsin gun kill lowest in 32 years
Wisconsin
Looks like the gun deer kill is down 15% and lowest in 32 years:
Does this mean Dr. kroll needs to come back to lecture a retake on his program or should WI rely on our instate biologists to move forward? Those are poor numbers.
Over hunting leads to decimated herds... only one way to bring the herd back.... limit hunting. .. get rid of xguns... baiting and go to 1 buck tag .. at least take these steps in the 19 crap counties... they are way over hunted..... The herd can't come back with that kind of hunting pressure..
Glunker, are you really that simple to discount the multitude of variables that can affect a season, or are you just looking for a way to rip on an administration you don't like?
Really, isn't the only way to increase the herd is to not shoot does or reduce the number of does shot in those areas? All the other stuff maybe just wishful thinking on your parts. BC
The biggest problem was the unlimited doe tags and people shooting deer just to shoot them. The DNR promoted it and is now paying the price.
I have hunted Polk County for 36yrs gun and 30 yrs archery on the same property and totally agree with unlimited doe tags are the biggest problem by both hunters and farmers. Back in 2000 our doe population was too high but after 14 years of killing every doe you can find has done major damage to our local population. We have farmers shooting 50+ deer (does / fawns) a season locals and out of state hunters filling up trailers with does and fawns we do have a few of us locals like others on this site who have decided we know our deer better than the DNR and have chosen a few years back not to take part any longer. Every doe we shoot is three less next year the math is not complicated not sure when many will wake up including our DNR, why are deer the only animal we can kill everyone we find? Its a joke and needs to be changed 32 years ago Bucks only and a rare doe tag looks like our deer herd is back to the good old day's... Hunters our are best answer at this point if they really give a s t and hunting becomes more important than killing, if you want a pile of dead bodies hunt geese. Just my opinion.
How can farmers shoot 50+ deer and out of State hunters fill up their trailers with does and fawns if there are no/few deer there? Just a question, its not like a video game where deer just appear when you press play.
Five Rs I didn't say there were no deer just major damage to our herd over the last 14 years in my area by over hunting. Im sure the AG tags are public info somewhere to see the numbers but I do know a local farmer who shot 51 with AG tags four years ago and he is only one of several around here doing the same there goal is to shoot as many as they can. All you need to do is to spend an hour at our local registration station you would see the majority of deer killed in this area are young does and fawns, and we keep seeing less deer every year and now to a 32 year low... weird.
2,700 ag tags issued this year. That's 1/2 the ml,late archery or youth hunt totals. Non event
Just because 50 were shot on one farm does not mean that they are all local deer. If deer are yarding on one particular farm who knows how far some of those deer came from to find food.
Here's the state list by county with name, add. of all ag tags
Cross-posted, but applies here:
Once we add the bow/crossbow kill, plus the youth, disabled, tribal, muzzleloader, four-day and holiday seasons, it'll be far from the lowest kill in 32 years. Too many forget that even before crossbows, the bow harvest has been growing steadily.
Bow harvest in 1980: 20,954. Bow harvest average over the past decade: 90,000+, including three 100K+ and two more 95K+.
They need to get rid of all ag tags in the decimated counties ...that's BS... and bow hunters were killing about 40% of the bucks before the xgun was added... LOL.. take the feed pile away and that number will drop significantly. And or go to 1 buck tag ... no cause for guys to hawg a second buck tag...
1 buck tag would significantly improve our herd.. especially in the decimated 19 counties... which prolly will be 23 or so next year..
Something needs to change big time or you will never have a herd in these counties
NO you're dead wrong Ronny... less bucks killed would definitely better the quality of bucks, the herd, the hunt, etc. You clearly are not as smart as you think you are. Your incessant stalking of AW has obviously clouded your judgement.
Happy to see you manned up and answered my ? From the other thread so how many of your buddies didnt buy gun tags to protect bucks again? ..............
"So we heard the 2014 kill was down from 2013 but the 2013 kill was down from 2012 so its cumulative 3 years running."
No, it's two years in a row, not three. 2012 was up from 2011.
By the time all the gun hunts are added in, and the bow/crossbow totals, Wisconsin hunters will have killed about 50,000 more bucks in 2014 than we did when I graduated from high school in 1980, and a similar number (in the ballpark) of the last six years. Not bad after a winter that set a severity index record, an often rainy fall, a gun opening weekend with snow, fog and rain limiting visibility and participation, and a million extra acres of hideouts (standing corn). Excuses? Call 'em what you want. But a lot of deer were saved. Get a milder winter and watch what happens.
I am not implying does are not getting bred... it is fact... and many times the ones that are getting bred are getting bred in Dec. And bearing late fawns that will be under weight to withstand a long winter..Mature bucks breed most of the does...if you have mature bucks.. does harem up for them... if you have none.. no harem.. means the 1.5s and nubby's will be doing your breeding... not optimal in my book ..but perfect in Ronnie world
Not sure you need to know any herd dynamics for that one Ronny... but you do need to pop your bean out of your shorts to get some air from time to time.
"By the time all the gun hunts are added in"
That's another thing, numbers are down. There shouldn't be any late season gun hunts, just more DNR greed.
"There shouldn't be any late season gun hunts, just more DNR greed."
+1.
Muzzleloader harvest last year, 6,729 (4,181 antlerless, about 1,000 of them in northern units).
December and late CWD gun hunts last year, 11,691 (10,560 antlerless, most in farm country).
Late archery, 7,366 (5,526 antlerless, including more than 1,000 up north).
Now, which late hunting effort hurt the north more? Or are they about equal?
For all the youth hunt bashers out there, late season archers shot more deer than youth gun hunters did (6,693, inc. 4,057 antlerless) in their special weekend hunt two months earlier.
I agree Rut... The DNR should be closing those 19 counties .. now.. protect what's left..
And Ronny.. please explain how 1 buck tag per hunter will kill the same amount of deer???
How can the same amounts of deer be killed if less tags are available??...do tell.
Was it just me or did I see more car vs. deer incidents than I have for years (mid south counties)? I have also seen more deer from the stand than in years. I think that the difference in hunt from one part of the state to another are astounding. Some people that have had a bad experience for some time may want to look at finding new place to hunt.
Swamp +1, I agree. As for your last sentence, that has always been the #1 problem facing DNR wildlife biologists/managers when trying to professionally answer questions and hear arguments from disgruntled hunters at hearings, meetings and open houses (and in general, disgruntled hunters are the ones that tend to attend such meetings).
It can be night and day not only from one part of the state to another, but even within a county — or a township! No-hunt or lightly-hunted refuges with good habitat will always harbor more deer in hunting seasons. It's not rocket science. Deer that survive humans with bows, crossbows and guns settle into a spot, and if they're not bumped, tend to remain there by day. I saw one rural spot (where many if not most properties are hunted) with nearly 20 deer on a field Thanksgiving weekend, and many fields that had 3-9 deer on within minutes of closing time on the drive home (with snow making them easy to see).
In some cases, deer pattern hunters better than hunters can pattern them; in many others, hunters are limited by access to spots. In the end, I'm generally thankful for most of the no-hunt refuges as they end up being "nurseries" for next year.
WE ARE TO BLAME! WE - the hunters.
WDNR provided the opportunity - WE HUNTERS cashed in on it!
I have no problems with the deer in my area - see plenty - good hunting - maybe too many does!
But in those areas - HUNTERS killed deer - Kathey Stepp wasnt hunting there - you and I were.
The "blame game" and "finger pointing"
The buck stops here!
It is still called "hunting" right? You can not just buy a gun tag and show up on opening day to the same old spots you have been for years and expect the deer to just show up to get shot. You need to find a deer to shoot BEFORE you can shoot it.
dpsm varies greatly even across a road. Habitat ie thermal bedding/understory and how a property is hunted/pressured are 2 key factors.
"Was it just me or did I see more car vs. deer incidents than I have for years (mid south counties)?"
Swamp, I am not sure when or where those numbers are from but it is now easier for the department to track car/deer kills as DMU's now correlate to county boundaries, which is how the DOT keeps track of those accidents.
The decimated 19 need special attention.. the bag limits should be reduced..baiting should be banned...and xguns removed..no youth hunt... no youth doe tags...
Or better yet just close the season for a year or every other year...
Way over hunted..and over harvested
"does harem up for the mature bucks"? That one made me laugh out loud. This discussion is about whitetail deer, not elk. Regardless of what people think, mature bucks can only breed so many does. If they spend 2 days with each doe, the rut "window" passes by pretty quick and the 1.5 bucks do their fair share of breeding. Age of a buck doing the breeding has nothing to do with the quality of the deer they produce. The genetic line gets passed along if they are 1.5 years old or 4.5 years old.
Maybe Antler Whore should take up ice fishing, it's easier and you can't blame the youth season for not catching a fish.
Returned my 2014 Gun Deer Hunt survey and just blasted the DNR. I filled out the survey but, wrote several accompanying notes the survey. They will either take me as a half out of my mind or start to realize that they need to go directly to the source, hunters, to figure out how to manage this herd! Spoke my two cents worth and felt like I actually did something a little constructive rather than just bitch about the state of deer hunting.
Funny thing 10orbetter, when we are asked to show up at meetings relating to hunting and talk, we don't even show up. We would rather sit around the bar, with our other Barstool Biologist buddies, and complain about the DNR. We then take it to the next level and get on the bowsite and tell the world how stupid Cathy Stepp is. Then we really rise up and fire off an email to the DNR and really let them have it. Suggestion, buy an orange hat and write on the front, "DNR SUCKS" and wear it to the Conservation Congress meeting in the spring - that really is helping things out. Not, picking on you 10, your comments just triggered this response to the general hunting public. Hope to see you at the county deer advisory meeting this week. BC
Bow Crazy, maybe that's because people get sick of the desk jockey biologists of the DNR looking down at us and our input. Yet when it comes time to blame, we are supposed to gauge whether or not our area can sustain antlerless harvests. it's either one or the other. If we are good enough to judge that, we are good enough for them to take us seriously on other aspects. Hell half of these jokers don't even step foot in the woods. yet those of us that are serious hunters/landowners are out there almost more than we are inside. The fact is, the DNR doesn't take us seriously and they likely never will.
Imo, folks get tired of these feel good, "we are listening" type setups. DTR, CDAC? One gets the feeling the agenda is preset and this is just window dressing.Paul A. Smith said he basically wasted 7 weekends for a predetermined outcome in a JS article.Love to hear the DNR explain how 10,000 antlerless were harvested in the no doe northern counties.All youth hunters? Please.
I do ice fish .... that sucks too...LOL
and if you think bucks pick and choose which does they breed... maybe you should read a book??? The does do the pickin.. and they group up just like elk... that is if there is a mature buck around they are looking for...
but you can believe what you want ... and it is exactly why 90% of the big deer are taken by 10% of the folks hunting...
everyone's a expert...LOL
Hunters attended meetings and voted against xbows. The legislature and Governor did not listen to the hunters and voted 96-0 for xbows. When things like this happen, many people feel - why bother - nobody's listening anyway.
I agree with November on the DTR too. The end result was known before the groups ever met. It was all for show. Kroll said "address the baiting issue one way or another" - nothing even proposed by the DTR. Hard sell, yes, but at least propose something that could enacted on. Kroll said "address the central and northern forests" - again, nothing even proposed by the DTR. But hey, we got bonus buck for a herd in decline. Great forcus by the show called the DTR.
More deer committees for Big Shot Ronny.... we need more of those .. I mean look at the great results we have.... Too funny...
I want to take this time to thank all of those who drove all over for no personal gains of their own and gave countless hours of personal time..... with out them... we would have never seen the great deer hunting they have given us...
Thanx a ton guys.....
Step up and fess up who laughed( capt mike, rc, howatt) at my suggestion that the antlerless fee raise from $2 to $12 and $20 did not supress the harvest in the farmland zone causing the dnr great concern? You will soon see emergency measures inacted to try and harvest more antlerless yep i am just that dumb nr
no worries rc, we shall see would the future holds
November, I understand your point. But if that were really the case, then almost every free tag that comes with a license should be filled. It would be easy enough to check and see what percentage of free tags were filled before they would enact any special season. Hunters cannot kill what is not there. I would hope that if the DNR is stupid enough to try any emergency action, that hunters would be smart enough to revolt.
Makes sense rut but the 9 day gun is the holy grail for herd control and as i said for whatever reasons the doe harvest is very concerning to the dnr and rightfully so. the 4 day gun doe hunt starts thursday that has proven to be a non event . Farmland corn is finally going down 24/7 now . Probably too late but better to be proactive imo.
Heres a new twist, farmland zone doe tags are now 2 for 1 if you are a farmer meaning 70% of your income comes from farming. Is that in the regs? Yep cost was never a factor on the antlerless harvest.
Bow Crazy my plan is to be at the Dec. 20 meeting for my area. Besides that, I did get a response from Kevin Wallenfang asking to talk about my concerns. I plan to call him on Monday. We will see what happens.
Ronny and capt mike, I have nothing but high marks for gov Walkers administration but Dr. Kroll was an experiment gone bad. Please you idiots do not misrepresent my thread, again. Ronny, you have no shame
I agree glunker walker has been a solid govenor the dtr process and kroll was like dating a stripper now the dnr is scrambling to avoid a serious crisis in the farmland zones as kroll tends to some high fence in tejas
1 ? How is it a NR knows Walker has been a strong Gov... 1 more ? Why does a NR spend 99% of his time on the WI Bowsite...LOL..
All too funny
Glunker, I posted, "Glunker, are you really that simple to discount the multitude of variables that can affect a season, or are you just looking for a way to rip on an administration you don't like?
Why did you only answer half the question. Are you that simple?
Antler whore,
So the chasing phase is does chasing bucks? In 30 years of hunting, I've never seen a harem of does searching the woods for a buck. I think the reasons you aren't seeing any deer are becoming more clear, you have no idea what you are talking about. :)
Nope... does wait in the scraped areas... they stage in those same areas for mature deer.. they alter their movements to intercept mature bucks...like i said provided you have some....But i dont expect many here to get it... WI hunting savy has been diluted by starring at a corn pile from a window...LOL
Capt mike your thread is not worthy of a response but why not? No and no. Have a good day. But you knew what the answer was before you asked the question so you were actually trying an adhominen attack by inferring that the answer had to be either I was simple or did not like our good Governor Walker. Not very honorable.
Jack pine, I have seen does loitering around active scrapes always without fawns. Non of them were in heels or lipstick.
Boys, where I have hunted for a looooong time (I'm 62), following the cwd scare years with dumpsters put out and heaped full of deer, the woods are quite devoid of deer. Two bow seasons ago I saw 2 deer total, this last year I saw 4. This last bow and firearm season my son saw 2 total, both bucks, and shot them both.
Make no mistake, we are both life long hunters and know what we're doing...the critters just are not there. The folks in our area shot everything, really overshooting does inthe process. Don't have to tell you all if you keep hammering off does, the herd will go away. Contrary to apparent belief, deer do NOT sprout out of the ground with the corn in the spring.
Now, my friends who are fortunate enough to own large parcells with cooperative neighbors, who all practise quallity herd management are thriving: great herd ratios with plenty of mature dominate bucks. They do NOT overshoot, take enough does to keep a healthy buck to doe ratio, without over-populating the habitat.
I am not so lucky...can't aford to buy hunting land, and am stuck withwhat I have...a nice property to sit on, great habitat with plenty of cover, water, some agriculture, and rifle hunters who kill everything the can year after year.
Boys, where I have hunted for a looooong time (I'm 62), following the cwd scare years with dumpsters put out and heaped full of deer, the woods are quite devoid of deer. Two bow seasons ago I saw 2 deer total, this last year I saw 4. This last bow and firearm season my son saw 2 total, both bucks, and shot them both.
Make no mistake, we are both life long hunters and know what we're doing...the critters just are not there. The folks in our area shot everything, really overshooting does inthe process. Don't have to tell you all if you keep hammering off does, the herd will go away. Contrary to apparent belief, deer do NOT sprout out of the ground with the corn in the spring.
Now, my friends who are fortunate enough to own large parcells with cooperative neighbors, who all practise quallity herd management are thriving: great herd ratios with plenty of mature dominate bucks. They do NOT overshoot, take enough does to keep a healthy buck to doe ratio, without over-populating the habitat.
I am not so lucky...can't aford to buy hunting land, and am stuck withwhat I have...a nice property to sit on, great habitat with plenty of cover, water, some agriculture, and rifle hunters who kill everything the can year after year.
Saw 2 bucks and shot both of them??
Yep.. it's the bad winters.. and the wolves... the bears.... the Crazy 8 ball... what ever.... again.. this post proves it's the guys with tags wiping out the herd... and nothing else...
Saw 2 bucks and shot them both... then complain about no deer...wow!!
Give that a little more thought bro....NEVER said he is a thrill-kill hunter...complete opposite. Just so happens after hunting HARD all early season, the 8 point he, yes...gasp, DID kill was the ONLY deer period he saw the entire season. Just so happened to be a nice buck, and he was done. Same for the rifle season.
Now, don't know what your description of being overrun with critters is but TWO total sightings is, to me anyway, rather sparse.
Now as for myself I was truely in whitetail heaven, seeing one doe and THREE bucks all early bow season.
Uh, I did see a dandy 8 point yesterday about 150 yards from my house...or what's left of him. Looks like the yotes have been well fed. Not much left; first saw about a 10' circle of hair under a low pine...some small entrail pieces...saw the rest about 15 yards away; head with spinal column and pelvis still attached...picked pretty clean, 3 lower legs, large chunk of hide. Ribs maily chewed off the spine about 1/4 left. Large pile of scat also...pile as big as the top of my foot...definate prediter with lot of undigested hair evident. 1st thought was wolf...most likely hunter or car wounded finished off by yotes. About 75 yards off a back road, no firearm hnuting allowed where I lve.
So I guess I saw 4 bucks.
Give that a little more thought bro....NEVER said he is a thrill-kill hunter...complete opposite. Just so happens after hunting HARD all early season, the 8 point he, yes...gasp, DID kill was the ONLY deer period he saw the entire season. Just so happened to be a nice buck, and he was done. Same for the rifle season.
Now, don't know what your description of being overrun with critters is but TWO total sightings is, to me anyway, rather sparse.
Now as for myself I was truely in whitetail heaven, seeing one doe and THREE bucks all early bow season.
Uh, I did see a dandy 8 point yesterday about 150 yards from my house...or what's left of him. Looks like the yotes have been well fed. Not much left; first saw about a 10' circle of hair under a low pine...some small entrail pieces...saw the rest about 15 yards away; head with spinal column and pelvis still attached...picked pretty clean, 3 lower legs, large chunk of hide. Ribs maily chewed off the spine about 1/4 left. Large pile of scat also...pile as big as the top of my foot...definate prediter with lot of undigested hair evident. 1st thought was wolf...most likely hunter or car wounded finished off by yotes. About 75 yards off a back road, no firearm hnuting allowed where I lve.
So I guess I saw 4 bucks.
By the way antler...those 3 bucks I did see...from 5 to 30 yards...never took the black widow off safety...so tag soup for me.
Rick it does seem a little odd that you are complaining the lack of deer and your son shoots the only two deer that he see's .Kind of strange
Yeah, Rick......those 2 bucks could have easily dropped two fawns each. So by your SON shooting them, you will not have 6 deer next year;)
I wonder how many bowhunters are out there who would have hunted the entire season and would still pass on the only nice buck they saw. Well, except AW as everyone knows of his boycott.
If his son would have shot two doe, I'd feel different depending on his son's age but two buck don't mean squat to the overall herd numbers in his area.
I agree with Geitz. People hunt to kill deer. If you only see one and shoot it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Given today's situation, that probably happens a lot. Taking bucks does not hurt the future population.
Guys, I'll let this die on one more point. The lad and I do not own hunting land. We are blessed to know a wonderful family who treat us as 1 of thier own in the use of thier land. Its a great piece...has every feature one could ask for in regard to whitetain habitat. I have hunted this place for a long time and completely enjoy just being on stand there.
We are in a cwd control zone and the population has been decimated...will take years to rebound, if ever. We are an eat what you take family...take ONLY what you need. My son was raised to respect nature's bounty, as was I by my father before. He was also raised...as was I...that to kill an animal is nothing to be taken lightly, serious business and make a SURE clean kill.
That said, we have left the does for a while, other than earn-a-buck, at which I stopped hunting. Niether of us were after does the last 2 years. Yes he did take ONE buck with the bow and ONE with the rifle. Yes, those were the only deer he saw. We did have a couple others on trail cam. I chose not to shoot...my choice. In these regards I do not feel any apology from him is in order.
We'll hunt again next year, and as long as the Big Guide above allows us to walk in his woods. Hope all you do also, savor each outing...shoot straight brothers...aim small, miss small.
Nuff said.
Rick, may I ask what county you hunted? The southern zone fared best this year in the gun season harvest, as far as percentage increase/decrease.
Hey naz...I hunt in northern sauk. Its funny and regional I know, the guys I know practicing qdm with nieghbors...who have a lot of acres involved...are cleaning up. Mature bucks and good ratios. Real quality herd. They're managing thier herd...not the dnr.
Not going on a rant...it is what it is.
Hey naz...I hunt in northern sauk. Its funny and regional I know, the guys I know practicing qdm with nieghbors...who have a lot of acres involved...are cleaning up. Mature bucks and good ratios. Real quality herd. They're managing thier herd...not the dnr.
Not going on a rant...it is what it is.
hey rick hey rick no need to double click
Lol....my tablet keeps doubling back to the page, I try to click out and the @#$&€ double posts. Born in the middle of the last century, may have to get some lessons from the grand son.
OK....gonna post now....c'mon, 1 time baby!!!
Thanks Rick, I have no knowledge of the unit other than looking at the same metrics the CDAC council gets (and available online). A quick check shows Sauk's first 1K+ harvest took place 46 years ago, in '68. It jumped to 2K+ in '69, 3K+ in '75, 4K+ in '77, 5K+ in '80, 7K+ in '81, 10K in '83, 15K in '84 (30 deer per sq. mile of range killed), 10K+ in '86, 10K+ '94 to '97, '99-'00, '02 to '05 and '07; past seven years ranged from 7K t 9.6K+. Recent years public land kills of 8-12 deer/sq. and private land kills of 14-16/sq. Sustainably harvesting almost a deer per 40 annually even in recent "lean" years isn't too shabby, though I think most would rather see that number closer to the record years. That's what DNR is up against. Balancing what's best for the farms, forests and roads vs. what many of us would love to see.
