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Told you so...LMAO...
Plus.. xguns don't need leagues to develop form... league shooters go thru a lot of arrows depending on the league type.. so you shops loose on arrow sales for sure as well
Just funny how the state with the biggest BOW MAN just screws them over and passes xgun legislation killing jobs... very thoughtful to sell more deer tags on the backs of your hometown company... and their employees...
Drop Tine,you said it well.
but thanx to the hunting orgs for pushing it...great call...... idiots
In the issue of full disclosure, I shoot a Mathews Z-7 Extreme.
Some hunters re-up every year and buy the latest/greatest product from their preferred manufacturer.
I could be 100% wrong, but I believe the majority of hunters buy a new bow/package every 7-10 years. I say that, not because that's what I intend to do, but because that's what I see the majority of the people that I know that bow hunt doing.
In order for Mathews or any other bow company to maintain sales, and thus keep all of their current employees, they need two things, A) a certain % of repeat customers annually, and B) a certain % of "new" customers that switched brands or entered the sport.
To be polite about it, the economy has sucked for the last 6 years. People, (myself included) are hanging onto their $. I simply have less $$ to spend on "me" than I did 6 years ago. Cost of living for my family (food, gas, clothing, etc.) has gone up, and my wages have stayed the same. Not a complaint, happy to have a job, but less $$ for the "other" stuff, and new bow hunting gear gets pushed further down that list.
Thankful I bought a great product that will last for years to come and the fact that I don't need to rush out and buy the newest/greatest every year. Would certainly like too, but not a reality.
I believe this is what Mathews is experiencing and why sales are down.
Asked the wife to order me a shirt from them this year for Christmas and a new sticker for the truck. It's a far cry from a new bow, but happy to support a great in-state company in my own small way.
I shot a Reflex Xpress for 14 years before I bit the bullet and got a new bow. This bow will last me another 10 years. This new technology is interesting, but not earth shattering. People want a big jump speed that comes with better accuracy and until a company can provide that, many will stick with what they know.
Yet another reason many are going to crossbows.
Gee.. why would folks even consider a new bow in WI?? Dead is dead... right?? LOL.. xbow idiots..
How many vertical bow hunters hunt after hours? I bet a lot do, I'll be honest and say that I generally hunt till I can't see good enough to shoot anymore. Some nights that's before the end of legal time and sometimes it's a couple minutes after. I'm not siting in my stand an hour after season but I think we all stretch it a little every once in a while. And if the guy is a poacher he's a poacher with whatever he has in his hand.
And again you make it sound like shooting a vertical bow is some kind of rocket science. I haven't shot my bow since the begining of October and I could go out right now and I bet I could put 10 out of 10 in the 5 ring at 20yds. I bet 7 or 8 would actually be in the X ring. Tell me it takes a great amount of practice to shoot a bow?
I was up for an afternoon hunt and he pulled it out to practice. He said here take a shot. I cocked it, loaded a bolt and free hand shot at 20 yards. Drilled the dot in the target. So I asked him what distance he has practiced at, "50" and can get a group the size of a pop can lid but I am keeping the range to 30 and under.
He would rather use a vertical bow but cannot hunt with one anymore. I have no issues with it. I am thinking about getting one to use during the rifle season just for giggles.
But if it keeps him in the woods, who am I to talk.
I shoot it at 74lbs year round and it shoots a 425 grain arrow about 275 fps.
Drop Tine, will "Today's compounds" set at 55lbs shoot a 425 grain arrow 275 fps?
I brought it up because of the post about accuracy with them. His is lights out (Mathews) and very light to carry or shoot. With very little practice 50 yards was nothing to him at the beginning.
No, but it will take much less poundage to reach it than 74lbs.
example: I used to shoot a Parker with moderate aggressive cams at 75 lbs. It was very efficient, very good kinetic energy and top speed was 287
I currently shoot a Destroyer 350 with the exact same arrow set up at 65 lbs. better efficiency, kinetic energy and at 302.
The Parker was smoother in draw but the hand shock and back wall sucked.
As for my Destroyer..... I'm lucky to get to shoot almost all new bows on the market and still haven't found something to pursued me to change from my Destroyer.
Everyone has different preferences in a bow but there is a considerable difference in a 15 year old bow to todays.
I haven't priced a new top of the line bow recently but I've heard figures like $1500 and $1700 being mentioned. Back in '98 when I bought my Mathews MQ1 it was top of the line and retailed for either $600 or $650, I don't remember which, but my buddy who owned the shop gave me $50 off.
That bow has level nock travel, no hand shock, is light and quiet and performs well. I can shoot 4" groups at 60 yards with fixed blade broadheads.
The MQ1 is the bow that all the other manufacturers copied back when the perimeter weighted solocam became the rage.
My point is, for $1700 for a new bow how much draw weight would I be able to drop to maintain my current performance with my current weight arrow?
I can't see spending $1500 - $1700 for a new bow (not to mention the cost of new accessories) to drop 10 pounds in draw weight. Drawing 74 pounds is no issue for me and I can literally shoot for hours with very little fatigue. I used to hunt and shoot leagues (including indoor 5-spot) with an 85 pound draw weight bow. Yes it was unnecessary and probably stupid, but it was my hunting set up and I didn't want to change it for indoor league and it was fun shooting next to those guys with the 50 pound target bows. I also messed around with that bow and was able to crank it up to a 97 pound draw weight but only shot it a few times that way.
A couple years ago I was hunting with a buddy who had a new Z-7 or Helium (I don't remember which because he had both) and he was giving me crap about my old bow. I shot a buck from a treestand and made a pass through on a very close shot. I couldn't find my arrow but we tracked and found the buck. I went back to the shot location and found the arrow buried in the ground up to the fletching but obscured by some leaves; it was soft sandy creek bottom. I told my buddy that its a good thing I didn't have a new bow because the arrow might have buried 6 inches deeper in the ground and I would have lost it. The point is, how far through the animal do you have to shoot?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about technology and at my job I'm responsible for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay on the cutting edge. I just have a hard time justifying the cost of a new bow just to get some parallel limbs and drop a few pounds of draw weight especially when I have a lot of other expensive hobbies to finance...
I have 2 grandkids shooting Diamond Edge bows set at 35 and 40 lbs . Those bows will blow holes in Deer out to 30 yards . 75 % of those claiming they physically can' t hunt with a compound are ....well never mind . ;-]
As far as prices go my Outback with all the trimings was about $ 1400 in 2005 . Buy the best you can buy , that dream buck will only walk by about twice in your lifetime . You only live once . Twice I was with hunters in camps that had their bows fail . Once in Alberta and once in Ill .
If your happy what you shoot, don't change. I don't know how many bows are in the 1500-1700 range, except a few target and the Hoyt Carbon. Most are 1k or less.
I was getting at the performance question you asked droptine. I've tested bows at the broadhead shoot for the last three years.....people would be amazed at what bow tested really well and some that stunk. It is also amazing how many people bows are set up very poorly, dangerously and obviously for speed. There is no reason a person needs to turn red in the face attempting to pull back a bow.
Although I can pull back a 70+ lb bow, I might just go to a 60 lb limb on my next bow.
As far as draw weight goes I used to hunt 75-80lbs all the time, one year I hunted at 93lbs. At 80lbs I was getting just over 300fps with a 400 grain arrow. Now I'm shooting 60lbs and about a 350grain arrow at around 325fps. I can't remember the past time I had an arrow stop in a deer. My next bow will be 50lbs. So I would say that a bow set at 55lbs shooting a 425 grain arrow would be around 275fps, maybe even a little more. This is with speed bows, not long ATA bows with "easy drawing" cams.
I agree with Ruger that most people who are shooting a crossbow could be shooting a compound with some thought and lighter poundage but I don't care because even with all the talk about long range the guys shooting crossbows aren't really shooting any further than a compound guy is. There are exceptions to everything but in general I bet the shot distance is about the same. I just watched a guy on TV take a 120yd shot at a Desert Bighorn so guys will try long shots with compounds also.
Distance of shots using a rifle are not any farther then compound guys either...!! LOL Ya... OK.... and that scope on rifles and xbows does not allow easier shooting before and after hours....that's why we here gun shots a half hour before daylight opening morning every year... without a scope that can't happen.... Compounds have no scope..
big differences
Compounds can have scopes, I played with a Leupold 2x pistol scope on a compound years ago and didn't like it, just like I don't like a scope on a crossbow. Even a 3X scope is to much for 5-10yds. Plus the scopes that come on crossbows are junk when it comes to light transmission.
Heck I've heard shots an hour before the season opens but what does that prove? There were seasons that due to snow and the moon I could have shot with open sights all night long. Then add in deer shilouted in a corn pile and it doesn't require a scope to shoot early or late. More times than not I could shoot before or after shooting hours with my compound and a pin, heck today's fiber optic pins stay bright all night if there's a decent moon.
You make it sound like just because someone uses a scope or a crossbow they are going to be violators because of their weapon choice. I legally own a couple silencers as well as night and thermal imaging optics yet I've never gone out before or after hunting hours to shoot a deer, I guess I must just be more honest than the rest of the hunters.
jjs, then let's get rid of blinds for bowhunting also because they take away the issue with being spotted drawing the bow which many people on here believe is such a huge benefit to a crossbow.
Never saw a guy rig up a rifle scope on a bow... however every xgun has one... but they don't help you so they just throw one in???
Zinger.. are you hitting the sauce? .. I have shot all over the place over the years and never one time saw a rifle scope on a bow...yet all xguns co.e equipped with one... why is this if it doesn't help sell them?? Please enlighten us.
LOL
Not all crossbows come with scopes but I will give you most do and IMO it's because people think a scope is always better but I don't feel it is at archery ranges. I'm sure it helps sell them just like fancy paint jobs sell bows but if I were to be serious about hunting with a crossbow I would put a red dot or an EoTech on it which really isn't anything more than what a fiber optic sight on a bow is. I've yet to see anyone put a really good scope on a crossbow that really transmits light to allow real shooting after dark. If a guy is a violator he's probably not the guy who's going to dump $1000+ on a scope.
I saw a guy try to shoot a bighorn at 120yds with a compound on TV the other night and he didn't have a scope on it but still let it fly so don't tell me just because a guy has a scope on his crossbow means that he will do things illegal or unethical, there's plenty of those guys in all disaplines of shooting and hunting.
On a side note, I know the dealer closest to where I live it is almost impossible to catch him on a day where he is willing to show you a bow or give you some range time to shoot one. Maybe my timing is always off, but inevitably he has either a photo shoot for a sponsor going on, or he has guys coming in for league and the range is "unavailable"...even though there's hardly a soul there at the time. Seems his foodplot/landscaping business is more important and selling bows for Matthews is secondary..
