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Ethical Hunting - Our Public Image

There's been some posts that have gotten into illegal permits, trespassing, and in general, what's legal and what's ethical when it comes to hunting in CT. Without getting into each instance to debate if it's legal or ethical I need to say one thing.

The image of hunters in general is based upon the public's experience with all of us, not just those of us that go by the book, but also the ones that get caught trespassing (damn hunters), poaching (damn hunters), shooting too close to occupied building (damn hunters), .....well, I hope you get the point.

So when you're thinking about your position on this topic I hope you give some thought to the future of the sport. If we choose to standby and do nothing, then the pressure will increase to limit/stop hunting in CT. Like they say, if you're part of the solution, than you're part of the problem.

I agree BBB

One thing I will never forget that I learned in the safety course was that there are a vast majority of non hunters that are on the fence when it comes to hunting. One stupid move can quickly turn them against hunting, while it may take many, many positive encounters to hunters and hunting to get them to look at it in a positive light. So it is easier to turn people against hunting than it is to get them to be in favor of it. Most of the time an anti hunting type of person will look at the actions of one unethical jerk, and view all the rest of hunters as the same jerks.

"If we choose to standby and do nothing"

What do you have in mind? I'm inclined to believe that the posters on this site are in the choir. And, there are plenty of people who will never approve of hunting anything, no matter how ethical/nice/kind/legal we are.

Typo problem here = if you're(NOT) part of the solution, than you're part of the problem.

One thing I have done on a regular basis is clean up the trash at the wma from the parking lots. I tell the dep I have done this through email on a regular basis, also when people come to walk their dogs and thank me when they see me I tell them I hunt here and respect the land and privilege to use it. I am always left with a smile and a positive image.

It's true, regrettably generations of hunters before did not leave a great image (sorry if you feel you were of that generation... watching groups of guys walking around with beer while hunting, shooting trees and signs from the road and getting so lost they don't know the town they are in, suggests that hunters are bone heads - at least here in central MA, that "drunk jerk" stereotype hunters have was earned I regret to say)... So to me, we have to be better than the rest to break even. We have to be nicer, kinder, more helpful etc to show that we are not the menace some think, or suspect we may be.

That's even more true now that so many people are completely removed from guns / weapons outside horrible news reports for example.

It's kill em with kindness in my eyes ;)

No matter what u do to try and show a positive image for hunters you'll never change the masses who have been brainwashed into thinking about us in a negative way even though they actually have never had an encounter with a reckless hunter. Stories get bigger and way more outta hand when they travel down the line through word of mouth. So in essence keep to yourself and do your part to try and not piss off another dog walker, mountain biker, or runner u see. Be cordial. It's a shame that a couple bad apples ruin the bunch! And that goes for gun ownership also, in their eyes we are all nuts,

Be mindful....good example, I was dragging my deer out of the woods this year and as I got to the tree line at the side of the road a young lady was jogging with head phone coming my way. I paused and let her pass before she could see me come out of the woods and before I dragged the deer to my car. This way she never saw me, I didn't know how she would react to me and their deer so I just waited. However, as I was trying to lift the deer into my 4 runner, people were driving by and I completely misjudged the weight and toppled over. I am sure they saw me laying on the ground with the deer...that's a way to put a smile on non-hunters faces, hahaha.

BBB is absolutely correct. Unfortunately if we do not take a stand to protect the resource we hunt through proper self-management we will have nothing to be nice about.

Legal and Ethical are two important points. Legal implies that there are laws that govern or limit an individuals action. Ethical implies that an individual would act within accepted principles of right or wrong. For this discussion it is based on conservation.

More importantly I think as sportsmen we need to insure that our actions are equitable to our fellow hunters as well as the non-hunting public. Not all hunters act in a manner that supports this ideal. Many hunters believe that our resource (deer) are endless and are a threat to society through blind trust in what many consider hard science. The fact that CT DEEP has chosen to selectively enforce or relax laws has fostered a dichotomy between hunters. It is time for hunters to re-educate themselves to the impact that we and others have on our resource and adjust our practices accordingly. Remember the class we all took – “Conservation” - Look it up.

Not sure what your saying Bob. I believe the topics brought up on illegal actions, poaching, etc are fantastic. If anything it shows that the ethical sportsman are against it. I was so glad to see Heartshot post the pic of that scumbag who stole his stand and how he explained it to his boy was priceless. I'm NOT looking for an argument, just curious what your trying to say. We will always have bad apples that have no respect for other folks or the game we are so blessed to be able to hunt. Please clarify, I way have read it all wrong.

Andyw,

someone said it best, "Be mindful" and I guess that's all I'm saying. When you go to town for lunch, don't go there with a dead deer in plain view and with blood all over your clothes. When you meet others in the woods, going in or coming out, smile, say hi and have a nice day! If someone engages you in a conversation at the gas station on the way home and they ask if you hunt, be courteous and don't talk about how many animals you've killed, tell them about your love for the woods and spending time with your sone, daughter, dad or other loved one. In fact, if they ask about how many you've killed tell them it's not important.

When I got my buck this year it was too heavy to drag, so I went back to a local's place and asked them if he had a wheelbarrow I could borrow, He could tell I was a hunter and I knew he wasn't, buthe agreed to let me borrow the wheelbarrow. I washed it out, thanked him, and came back up the next weekend and gave him a bunch of tools from Stanley, where I work. He was happily surprised and thanked me.

I took the opportunity to tell him it was the first deer in 16 years that I shot, and how I let all other deer walk. I talked about seeing bobcats, coyotes, hawks, eagles, fischers, etc. I told him hunting is more to me than taking a life, it respect for nature and showing other the joy and solitude I find in the woods.

I had 2 other hunters start talking me at a gas station one time and when I told them I let a certain deer walk they began bragging about how many they killed on private land so far that year. This is not what other people in the gas station wanted to hear, and is exactly what perpetuates the bad images they have of all hunters.

I have a big problem with people who say that we " should be mindful" by pretending we dont hunt. We are simply walking in the woods. Wtf? We never hurt an animal etc. When you are in fear of what others think about your actions you become accountable to others demands. In my oponion a better approach is positive education. No dont gut a deer by a main road or park. Many actually most of the masses don't know what to think and the other side is vocal the masses listen to them. People who don't have all the information they dont research. They act based on the misinformatin they have. Its much better to discuss the benefits. Look I feed my wife and three children with healthy food through hunting. Ha I e en reduce my carbon footprint by eating venison. I reduce the growth of invasive species. I reduce lyme diease occurance. I reduce predators who eat their pet cat. I am mindful the wilderness and wildlife and am a caretaker of nature. Yes there are bad apples but if people knew all the good apples out there they would have a different view.

Althought I am courteous to the non hunting crowd and respectful....I WILL not apologize to the ass backwards people in this state for being a hunter....

If you hunt in other states you realize just how out of whack CT really is.....

In Maine, New Hampshire, Upstate NY and out west people gather around your deer and admire it when you are a check station or pulling it out of the woods not shame you for it....

Onthehunt and Jax,

Good points and I agree with your statements. I never said we should apologize for hunting, I just asked that we all THINK before we act or speak.

Feeding your family, donating to the soup kitchen, protecting wildlife for future generations, healthy food, etc are all good topics to bring up. We need to show the non-hunter that we are NOT only out in the woods to kill, no more so than a farmer or the local butcher.

Unfortunately most people in this state DON'T want to see our dead deer. We can either use that information to our benefit by respecting their opinions, or we can rub their noses in it by placing our kill in plain view with all of the blood and the poor Bambi syndrome for the non-hunter to use against us.

I would rather minimize the negatives they see in hunting and present as much of the positive as I can.

BBB I remember a thread a long time ago on this forum where someone was bragging about having a deer on his car and driving by a yuppie in a BMW or Mercedes and bragging about the look on faces of the people in the car. I remember this thread well because I pretty much got flamed for my opinion and it turned into everyone posting photos of how they transport their deer. Long story short, seems the attitude of a bunch of people here at that time was that they are hunters and proud of it, so if I want to display my dead deer on a car and drive around they should be able to do it. Yes free country and definately allowed, but my point was that we as hunters should "educate" rather than "agitate". Get your deer out of the woods, get home and take care of it, no need to go further than that. My point at that time was that we as hunters need to be mindful that we are in the minority in this state. Who knows, I may get flamed here again for this post, but I am older now and I can care less....LOL

Must resist taking the bait...must resist...

We hunt Northwest Ontario....We have to drive back with the deer on the roof of our jeeps....we have no choice....we stay in tents and with all the gear there is no choice.

from MN, MI, WI,OHIO, Upstate NY to PA we get crowds AT gas stations taking pictures asking questions, high fiving until we hit CT....then we are getting the finger....f this state and the yuppies in it

Toonces

please give us your thoughts. I'd love to hear a differing viewpoint and why you think that way.

Jax - I agree. Went to New Brunswick a few years ago with my boss and I shot a huge 10 pointer. My boss had his quad in his Dodge Ram truck, so the buck had to go along side it with the head sticking out the back. In Maine we got thumbs up, and in MA and CT we got a different finger up. Neither one changed my life or my thoughts about hunting.

"Get your deer out of the woods, get home and take care of it, no need to go further than that".

Just to clairify, I am talking about those who go beyond transporting game home, the joy ride. If I remember that thread correctly, that is what it sounded like. Jax/BBB no issues with coming home from a trip and transporting any way you need to get home. For me, I am able to break down a deer to quarters/backstraps where I hunt in PA, so everything comes home in a cooler and i process at home. This is they way I prefer but know it isnt always possible for others.

There was a debate about this on another BB last week that I took part in.

In a nutshell:

I believe in a more in your face approach with the non hunting public, and by in your face I believe in not tiptoeing around them. Don't necessarity instigate, but don't worry about offending anyone either.

I don't believe modifying our behaviour is a good strategy to promote hunting. Dead deer in a car should be accepted behaviour and it never will be if we never do it. The more we modify our behaviour less visible we are and the less visible are the more we are marginalized.

I made the comparison to the great success of the Gay rights movement and other civil rights movements. None of these movements succeeded through modifying their behaviour to avoid offending the majority. Quite the opposite actually, they put the behaviour in front of the majority as often and as blatantly as possible and didn't care who they offended. I think we can learn from them, maybe we don't have to take quite the "in your face" strategy that they do, but a strategy of "not to offend" is a strategy of playing not to lose. It is not a winning strategy.

Toonces,

a logical arguement, and I guess it's a personal choice on how to present yourself to others. In life we all have different masks we wear, and by a mask I mean we alter our behavior to meet the norm for the situation we're in.

For example: at work, it wouldn't be ok to have a fart contest, by at deer camp it may be something someone would suggest. I exaggerate to make a point :)

One arguement against hunting and hunters is that we're all about killing, and I don't think we are. If that's the only face we show the public, then that's what they will see. The gay rights people weren't having sex in front of us to win their rights, they were arguing that they deserve the same rights as straight people. Were they LOUD about it, yes! But to me, driving around a bloody dead deer is not the same as campaigning for your rights

Good topic Bob. While I get what you say, and agree with some of it, opinions of the non-hunting public have little to do with one ethical guy. No doubt, covering you deer in transport, avoiding getting coffee at D and D with blood dripping of your clothes, not bragging in crowded public places about a high body count of deer will reduce the likelihood that you will be ADDING TO THE NEGATIVE PERCEPTION. But then one yahoo like me comes along, is on a televised show and millions see it. A newspaper writes an article about a HUNTER and a stray arrow in someones front porch. A hunter did it, the paper says, Hunter, hunter, hunter. No chance an anti found an arrow in the woods and stuck it there, is there? No chance it was a criminal, a poacher who shot and didn't want to get caught so he didn't retrieve it, is there? I have battled with the media for decades on the positive side. Wrote dozens of letters to the editor that were published. Got pats on the back from my fellow hunters but all of them told me: "I'm glad your doing it. Someone should be doing it. But I wouldn't do it, I don't want to be a target for the anti's." But I did do it. Being bold has always been my way, and I don't apologize for that. I wear my clean camo in town, and talk to kids about hunting often. I think I am a positive image of a hunter to the non hunters. But I do it in the open, proud and thoughtful. I know there are those here who hated that show I did, and maybe some of you had negative experiences with land owners because of it. To you, I apologize, if it brought you down in any way. But my experience has been different. All I ever hear is "when is the show coming back?".

If I may, out of respect for Bob and the above posts, please don't turn the thread into a re-hash of distain for me or Chasing Tail. If you want to "go there", please, message me or start a new thread. Don't ruin this one.

This is funny. If some of you rememebr...it used to be a requirement in CT to transport your deer with a portion of it in plain view. AND THE TAG HAD TO BE ATTACHED TO IT.

You also had to wear your fishing/hunting license (and tags) on the outside of your clothing.

I agree with Dr. Deer. Embrace hunting and be proud to let other know you do it...and you're doing it the correct way.

Yes I remember that Bloodtrail. I embrace hunting and have the respect of all around me, even the vegetarians in the office if you can believe that, no lie.

Let me pose this example to everyone, see attached link from the main forum which some of you may have already seen. This is kind of what I am talking about, not really good for our public image and things could have been done a lot differently to shed a more positive light on the hunting community.

Bloodtrail,

anytime I'm in a group setting and someone brings up hunting I always stand up for the right to hunt, I NEVER shy away from the argument. However, I do it very differently these days than when I was young; with age comes wisdom (I know, we could argue that point as well).

When I was young I would talk about the facts, like how hunters are the only ones putting their money with their mouth is by supporting land preservation which benefits ALL animals and not just the ones we hunt. Or how it's an american tradition and it's a more merciful way for an animal to die than starving to death or being eaten alive by a coyote. I would go on and on in a defensive posture and tone.

Today when someone asks me "Why do you hunt?" I answer "I don't know." Oh, I know about the facts around hunting, like the food it provides, the money supports habitat, it's healthier food, provides exercise, love of the outdoors even if I don't hunt, etc. But when I search my soul, I'm not sure what inside of me says I NEED to pursue an animal for food, but it's there, inside of me, and calls me to the woods.

I'll tell them that hunting is not for everyone, and that the KILL is the least favorite part of the hunt for me. I feel sad for the animal that I just killed. Ask Duncan about my kill this year. One of the largest bucks I've taken and the first kill in 16 years, and I was not yelling, giving high fives, walking in circles smiling. It was a somber thing for me to end the life of a majestic animal, a dominant buck, the master of his territory.

So I tell them hunting is not about killing, it's about respecting nature in all of it's beauty, and how I feel closer to God in the woods than I do sitting on a couch. I explain how I love watching all of the animals and how I go in the woods in the off season with camera in hand to tape them. But why do I let go of the string????? I'm not sure, but I know it's right. Like a farmer raising livestock to eat, or planting crops to harvest, hunting is just an extension of that circle of life. I know there's more good that comes from it than bad. I know for me, it's what I need to do. If you don't have that same voice in your head, then don't do it, but please don't stop me from doing it.

That's the argument I make. In the end they can disagree, but I just tell them I feel no NEED to defend hunting, because there's nothing wrong to defend.

Look, there's over 16,000 permits issued for deer archery in the state of CT in 2014. In 2011 there were 13,700 permits issued. There is less and less (private)land available for hunting each year....but more archers out there. Lots of newbies to the sport each year.

Some of these archers have grown up watching the TV shows, been influenced by marketing gimmicks and believe that's how it's done. Others have had a mentor who taught them what they know and passed on their knowledge/love/patience/woodsmanship etc.

I don't defend myself if I run into someone who krinkles their nose at what I do...nor do I seek them out or try to change their view. They either accept me as I am or not. I don't care either way. I will say they respect me alot more when they know I kill deer with a bow. And, BBB, killing is part of what we do and I particularly enjoy a massive bloodtrail and eating a nice deer stew or deer chili.

Bloodtrail,

the only comment you made that I take exception with is the "I don't care either way", otherwise I agree. We ALL should care what the non-hunter thinks of us as hunters, because it could impact the future of our sport. So, how do we change it??

The motto I live my life by is simple "Kill people with kindness." If someone thinks badly of me I have a choice. I can act the fool and prove them right. Or I can kill them with kindness and possibly change their view of me. You don't have to sacrifice "who you are" as a person to kill people with kindness. You just need to take a different approach to the problem.

I don't care how many slobs hunters, poachers, newbies, criminals are connected with my sport, I will always show John Q that there are "real" hunters that are different than what they read about in the paper or hear about on the news. I refuse to propagate the image by acting the fool.

Dark knight - that's funny. I did the same thing this year - sort of. I had dragged a buck to about 100yds from the gate on the land trust (here in MA) land I'd been hunting. The last 30yds of the land trust road is shared by the 600K~ house at the end of this culdesac... So, as to not leave blood in the folks yard, and to make deadlifting the deer into my truck easier and faster, I put it on a deer cart. As I get to the gate, the property owner is getting mail (this is right at dusk) and another neighbor is talking with them. I just back up 20yds and let things calm down 5', the road's clear, I zip through the last bit to my truck, load em up, pull the cover over the back and you would never know a dead deer just went through the ritzy little back yard... Until I stopped in a week later and dropped off a few lbs of venison for the folks that live there.

Bob- I TOTALLY agree. Killing with Kindness is the best option!

I pick my nose and wipe my buggies on them...

I had a doe in the back of my truck a couple of weeks ago . my 9 yr old niece was standing by the truck when her friends mom came to get her for a play date. my niece insisted her friend and mom come over and look at it. the kids thought it was cool , the mom was kinda tweeked about it . but after we got to talking and I explained all the reasons explained above , she was now kinda cool with it . I doubt I converted her but at least she now has a better understanding of it.

"that the KILL is the least favorite part of the hunt for me. I feel sad for the animal that I just killed."

Bob, Do us all a favor and quit hunting, before you retell that girlyman feely opinion again, and thereby paint the rest of us as more bloodthirsty than sad sorrowful you.

Deer were born to be eaten. When I see the first blood, the last thing I would ever think is Oh boo hoo that poor critter. When on the bloodtrail, the more blood I see tells me the connection is good. And when I see the deer down and dead, I've got some great meals ahead of me. I butcher my own deer, so the arrow is the first cut of many I will make till it is all bite size. I love deer......on my plate. Feeling sorry for your food? That's just plain silly. Magnificent animals yes, and created by God, for our use. Cabbage was a living thing, before it was harvested. Do they invoke feelings from you too?

You said hunting was right? Then why do you subject yourself to selfloathing? That sounds confusing to me, a hunter, I can only think that your explanation is more confusing to a non-hunter.

I misunderstood your post Bob. I thought it was peel off our Mathews bows stickers, etc off our pick up trucks lol. My feelings, we are at the top of the food chain and have been designed by God to eat meat for protein. I was raised to use the land to the fullest and live simply. i am thankful for that and hand it down to my children. I do have to laugh Bob, 16 years to shoot a deer ?? . Man, you need some new spots ??

Bob,the ?? We're supposed to be smiley faces.

I will never be ashamed of being a hunter, and I will proudly display that I am a hunter, but in a positive way. Just because someone is offended doesn't make them RIGHT! Hunters have been here since man was created, it's what we do, and I will never apologize for being a hunter, or try to hide the fact that I hunt!

I follow all the rules, and regulations set forth by the state that regulates the laws, if that offends someone, get over it, suck it up!

Political correctness is ruining this country, because we may offend someone.

Just my .02 cents.

~ Van

Wild Bill

what part of my post said I don't enjoy hunting, or that the rest of you were blood thirsty, or that I'm self loathing? I guess you either totally skipped over the part where I said it's the only part of hunting that I don't find as "HAPPY", or you're just discounting the fact that I love the sport and tell others there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing it.

I think you need to ask yourself if the part about sticking an arrow into an animal and ending it's life makes you HAPPY? Does it really make you happy to kill!! I would be afraid to say that out loud. I feel proud of the accomplishment. I feel rewarded. I feel satisfied for job well done. But happy is not one of my feelings when the arrow finds it's mark.

Having respect for the animal is not a fault when it comes to hunting, at least not for me. I go into woods with a goal, to take a mature buck, not to kill anything that moves. I only kill what I eat, again, respect for the animal. I only take good shots, again, respect for the animal. I was lucky enough to take a mature buck this year. I was HAPPY to have accomplished a good, clean kill. That split second where the arrow struck the animal did NOT fill me with happiness.

If you're intimidated by reading about how I feel when I kill an animal, then the problem is with your interruptation of my feelings, but not with how I feel, because feelings are neither right nor wrong.

I need to go change my skirt now.

AndyW

I've had PLENTY of deer pass by my stands over the years with perfect shot opportunities, but I only take mature bucks, just personal choice. I've shot many deer over the years and I no longer find the NEED to come out of the woods with something,...anything!

I do it to help leave deer for others and grow the herd, even if it's only a few deer in a small area. I see it as a positive approach and a personal choice, but others on the site seem to take exception to that and think that hunting is only about the kill.

I was at that same point when I younger, but now at nearly 64 yrs old I find the woods to be more for the soul then for the table (more skirt talk). I find no fault with those that hunt for food and take 3 - 4 deer each year. It's those that waste the resource by killing more than what they need.

Van

I agree with not apologizing for hunting, and like I said above, I tell people I find no need to DEFEND it because there's nothing wrong with hunting to defend.

But I also don't find the need to rub it in someone's nose. By that I mean - when I killed my buck this year I made sure I washed up, and took off the bloody clothes before I stopped for lunch at a local restaurant while Duncan went back into the woods. I could have gone in with my camo on and waited for someone to complain or ask where the blood came from, but to me that common courtesy, just like I wouldn't go to a restaurant with dirt all over me after working in the garden.

I was trying to make one point, and one point only. Killing the deer is NOT the what makes me happy. I find no joy in watching the arrow slice into the animal. We're talking about a split second as compared to the hours, days, months, years (in my case) of planning and executing the hunt. I accept the fact that it's part of hunting, and therefore take responsbility for it.

I'm still not sure why others think I'm saying that I'm apologizing for hunting,...I never once said that and I never will. I've taken more than my fair share of animals, from birds to deer, and will continue to do so.

Bob,

I agree with what you said...I believe that the key word in your thread is Ethical, which by my own definition is: "doing what's right, even when no one is watching."

Far to often, guys will take a less than ethical approach to hunting. I make it a point to understand the laws as they apply to us.

As for our public image, I'm not sure if we will ever be able to do anything about the stigma, or the stereotypical thoughts that some have about us as hunters, the media certainly doesn't do us any favors by lumping us in with "poachers", and others who are less than ethical, and the way that hunting is portrayed by all the anti-hunting groups.

I try to make it a point if or when talking to someone about hunting that I try to tell them something they didn't know about it, and to make them understand that it isn't necessarily about the kill as much as it is about how good it is, not only from a food perspective, but also from a conservation/environment perspective, talking about carrying capacity, etc...typically the conversations go well, and are not confrontational in any way.

If I think the other person is anti hunting, I typically leave them with a phrase along the lines of "while we may disagree on this, I respect your views, and I would hope that you could respect mine as well."

Best of luck, I hope I'm wrong about changing the perception of us as hunters, but I believe the damage has been done, it is our job to not make it any worse than what it is going forward, and maybe when our kids are grown, or our kids, kids, maybe we will be looked upon in a different light!

~ Van

Intentionally killing animals while hunting makes me happy.

If I didn't smile everytime I killed an animal I probably would quit and go find something to do that did make me smile.

Didn't realize this was a subject of controversy. Everybody I have hunted with always seems pretty happy after killing something.

I tend to agree with how your describing this Bob. I always feel sad and glad when I kill a deer or turkey. I'm glad to have had a successful hunt, to be providing food for my family and to have had the opportunity, but there is a sense of sadness - or maybe it's better to describe it as respect and gratitude for the animal who's life I just took.

I dont see this or things like killing with kindness as being PC. Just being a decent person.

I had a couple good examples I'd laid out here, but I deleted them because I think they would be a little to inflammatory. In the end, I just think there is a difference between being proud of who you are, and not being considerate of others.

Toonces

I'm also happy to have a successful hunt, ending in the kill of a mature buck. But again, to me the "hunt" is not just taking the life of an animal. It's all of the planning, hours spent on stand, changing your plans, patience, etc that makes me happy about taking a target animal. I beat the deer at his own game,....staying alive.

All of us as hunter know how hard it is to take a deer with a bow. I take great pride in getting the deer I'm after and yes, that makes me happy.

You said it in your reply, "Intentionally killing animals while hunting makes me happy" means you also separate the killing part of the hunt from the total hunt experience. Once again, I think we need to go to deer camp together. :}

BBB,

You said a few posts up that killing is is one of the parts of hunting that doesn't make you happy, so I guess I don't understand.

I don't separate the killing from the hunt. I also consider the butchering, packaging and cooking as all part of the total hunt experience. Some of that experience makes me happy, some doesn't (sitting up in a treestand for long periods of time is a grind and a lot of times, not much fun) but if I don't do it, I can't kill something.

I think for the most part, you kill so you can hunt, which is fine for you.

For the most part, I hunt so I can kill, which is also fine.

I pretty much knew I was done deer hunting this year when I decided to pass on killing a deer. I walked out of the woods afterwards and haven't been back out deer hunting since. For me there isn't much point in hunting if I am not committed to killing something when I have the opportunity.

Toonces

I'm saying I DO separate the kill from the hunt. Think about it. I wouldn't say "I didn't go hunting today" if what I really meant was I went hunting but didn't kill something. I can still go hunting without the kill, and yes, I do enjoy myself doing that.

Likewise, killing a deer on the side of the road is not hunting, you're just killing, no search (hunt) involved.

Can I ask why you decided not to kill that deer?

I ask because I've been passing on deer for 16 years and it didn't bother in the least, so maybe that's the real difference between us. I want a particular deer, and you may want "A" deer. I've taken enough of the "A" deer in my 46 years of hunting.

The doe I passed on was around 3PM fairly deep into a state forest during the shotgun season. I passed because I had two in the freezer, and realized I just didn't feel like dragging it out of the woods after dark and butchering it the next day, even though I would certainly use the meat. At the moment of truth it was just more work that I was willing to do. In July when I am out of venison I will end up regretting it.

If I have second thoughts about doing the work involved with killing a deer then my season is probably over.

As a hunter, any hunter, the primary goal when we enter the woods is to kill something, period. We can enjoy nature, solitude, and all that happy horse pucky, but in the end we are hunting to kill something. It may not be to kill anything we see, or the first one we see, but that is the ultimate reason for hunting like it or not. Enjoying all the other things that come along with it are just a bonus. We all have our own unique limitations and goals, may it be a big buck, or a big happy freezer, but in the end it's all the same. If you don't like to kill, bring a camera instead of a bow or gun. Of course then you wouldn't be a hunter, you would be a nature photographer.

Grizzlyadams,

you're correct, my primary goal is to kill a mature buck when I go hunting, that is the goal for me.

However, once again it sounds like you're getting upset because I'm saying that sticking the arrow into the deer is not a HAPPY part of the hunt for me and again I have to say that just because I'm sadden by taking the life of an animal doesn't mean that I enjoy the total hunting experience any less. In fact, I think it allows me to enjoy it more, because I don't NEED to kill "A" deer to enjoy the hunt. And when I do take a mature buck I look at the effort it took and I feel a sense of accomplishment and pride.

If I misread your post I apologize, but it sounds to me like some are responding in a defensive manner, as if I attacked their right to kill a deer. That's not possible because I do the same thing, I just feel differently about it when I do,....nothing more, nothing less.

"So I tell them hunting is not about killing, it's about respecting nature in all of it's beauty, and how I feel closer to God in the woods than I do sitting on a couch."

I not concerned as to what makes you happy or sad or anything else. Just responding to this quote you posted about hunting. You can feel however you want, but in the end realize what you are doing, why you are doing it, and accept it, don't try to sugar coat it. Justify it! I apologize if I come across in a defensive manner, that is not my intention.

Grizz

I started this thread to discuss the image we present to the non-hunting public, not to talk about my feelings, but it seems a few people can't accept that the kill is not a happy part of MY hunt. Simply put, I would rather tell the non-hunter that the kill is not something that gives me joy, but is something I accept as part of the hunt and take full responsibility for. Rather than saying, "It makes me HAPPY to kill animals, get over it!"

I'll leave it up to each person that reads this to make up his own mind, but don't complain when someone wants to limit your hunting rights, or take away your semi-auto shotgun. If you present the image of a "blood thirsty" (someone else phrase, not mine) killer of animals, and someone that likes to rub their noses in the fact that you hunt by driving your dead deer around town, than you will reap what you sow. You know it pisses them off, and you have decided to hand them more reasons to hate us as hunters.

I would rather show them that hunters are NOT beer drinking, fat slobs, with no manners that walk around with blood on their clothes and dead animals draped over their fender. That's the image they have,...are you changing it? Or reinforcing it?

Guys - I'm a hunter! I kill animals,....just like you. The rest of this post is just to stir some thought for the next time you run into a non-hunter. I'm not right or wrong, just my opinion.

Rule #1, be proud to be a hunter and of your heritage. Never become a spineless jellyfish as if we are doing something wrong and cower down to the antis. by doing that that just feeds their fire showing weakness. I live in the north east corner which as I grew up was all dairy farms and good ol country folks that cared about one another. Now the quiet corner is inundated with money and snobs from who knows where. Can't take the country out of our family. We sell fresh eggs and some yuppie stopped to buy some, I was flushing out a deer hung from the kids swing set. She walks up to me and says why would you do that? I spit some beech nut and politely said under a smile, cause you want to wash out all the blood. She turned and walked but still buys her eggs every week with her leather seated Lexus. Lol.

AndyW

those kind of people will never embrace hunting or accept it, I get that. I also grew up around farms. My parents family had farms in Berlin, CT and as a boy we would milk cows, feed chickens, pick strawberries, apples, pears, and peaches, and feed the mink (one uncle had a mink farm near what is now the Timberlin Golf Course).

When I get a chance to talk with these kinds of people I try to present my side in a calm, logical manner. I don't try to force hunting on them, but I tell them I don't seek their approval either. I just think we get closer to cracking the shell of the non-hunter by presenting a rational, calm, fact based argument. No need for name calling or personal attacks, because I think that's when we lose credibility.

One thing that IS swaying the public opinion in some small way is some of the new reality shows, like Frontier Alaska that show how hunting and raising animals is a natural way to live. They show the non-hunter that at one time we ALL had to hunt and gather, so maybe that will bring some insight towards what we do. I notice people at work have a slightly different view of hunting now, but still wonder why I HAVE to do it,....we have stores you know. I just say, my store doesn't sell venison, so I HAVE to get it myself.

The organic supermarket is a better place to shop.lol. I'm convinced if we sugar coat who we are we have a better chance of losing our rights. Look at prayer in schools,Ten Commandments came off the wall.. So sad, not enough people to stand up. If you visit the mid west it's still like it was here 20 years ago. People pray in public,hunt, trap,etc..their mind frame is, if they don't like it move back to where you came from. I have friends in Ohio that don't throw it in their faces, but are not afraid to show their public image. I also.

Andy

You make a good point, and it's difficult to decide which approach is better, but you have stirred some doubt in my mind for sure. Maybe I'm just getting too old to FIGHT the battle any more with non-hunters???

I also hate "Seasons Greetings" I have a button right in front of me, on my desk at work that says: Keep Christ in Christmas" from the Knight of Columbus. When a clerk at the store says seasons greetings to me, I say and you have a Merry Christmas. It's not a holiday party, it's a Christmas party. It's not a holiday tree, it's a Christmas tree.

Maybe we should just move out west where time has stood still a bit?? :)

Thanks for your thoughts.

yep.. 'fly over' country is full of bitter clingers. Sure miss living there.

In my hunter ed classes I spend a portion of time on how we as hunters shouldn't be ashamed or hide the fact that we hunt and what that means, but I do talk about respecting others as well. Now I use examples like displaying deer or saying things like I stuck one or the old favorite tshirt that Happiness is a large gut pile. My point is hunter to hunter is different then hunter to non hunter. Many non hunters (not talking about those antis or those folks that made up their mind against hunting), I'm talking about the person that ask "Why" or "How could you". Many of them don't KNOW or understand what it is we do and why. So I talk about wearing your camo/orange proudly, but at the same time if you just shot a deer, clean yourself up before stopping for breakfast or the store. There is a difference from hiding it or being to PC then being respectful of others and that is the point I try to get across to new hunters so that we are represented in the best positive light possible to fight those stereotypes or stories they heard.

Two years ago during spring turkey my son and I were hunting a piece of state land that gets lots of non hunter traffic and we usually don't hunt it on a Saturday because of it but we had a nice bird roosted and wanted a shot at him. Well we got him around 8am and we had just got to the truck, had the tailgate down and the bird on the tailgate as we were putting our gear away and we start to hear voices. AS I turned around to see who was coming down the dirt road it turned out to be about 75 kids and some adults doing a fun run and this big ol tom was laid out for all to see. To say I wasn't concerned was an understatement but instead of run and hide I prepared to educate. Many of the kids stopped as did a few adults and they asked questions and I did my best to answer them, some wanted to touch it which they did. We got a few Ewwhhhhs and some COOLS and a dirty look or two from adults. But overall it was a very positive experience with even some kids giving my son a high 5 and a good lesson for my 22 year old son to see first hand. My point is that we shouldn't hide, but we should respect, just as we want to be respected and we should demand respect. We also need to take the opportunity to educate and not just spew some witty smart a$$ comment. We can't change some peoples mind, but we most certainly can erase some of those myths they hear about hunters and hunting.

AS far as killing vs hunting, I Smile from ear to ear when I am successful, not ashamed. I also have a different feeling for the animal that just gave his life for me and my family. I am also one of those that believe I Kill to hunt and not hunt to kill. I believe that because I don't have to kill to have had a good hunt. My son hunts with his stomach. If 3 toms came in front of him opening day he would shoot all 3 and go fishing. I would shoot one and keep hunting the rest of the season. Doesn't make him wrong and doesn't make me better, it makes us different in what we want out of our hunt and hunting season and different is ok, just keep it legal.

Paasinthru

you state my case much better than me.

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