he works very closely with the Deer biologists with the deer that are brought in since they did away with the check stations.....he saves them heads from different areas and they test them for CWD Etc
They were telling him that there is a lack of 2.5 year old deer in the state due to winters....not from winter kill but from a lack of birthing due to winter...
either the DOES gave birth to just one or no birth at all due to the winter conditions that last few years/in that time frame.....
this is in all areas but zone 11 and 12....
interesting
Now, there are still some older deer out there...but talk to me about areas that were consistently torn up with rubs and scrapes....and now - nothing. It's sad seeing old rubs from years ago in areas that were always a Mecca for bucks.
Talk to any butcher or taxidermist and they will tell you they are way down in older bucks and just deer in general.
I also think it's due to lower acorn crops, increased tags, baiting, poaching, cars, coyotes, bobcats and hunters. All of these being equal, the weather was the controlling factor.
How would serializing the tags prevent someone from killing a deer and not recording it? Couldn't you just make multiple copies of the same tag and not call in the deer?
The current tagging system is pretty silly. When it first came out I assumed the State wanted to encourage poaching as a means to kill more deer without having to change bag limits. Really no other explanation makes sense.
You can kill so many deer legally though, it's hard to imagine why anyone would want to circumvent system.
Non birthing winter kill turns into a tagging system issue
Deer breed in the late fall and give birth in the early summer. So how does winter affect the "birthing". How do deer in Canada or Maine do it.
And, did I read your post right, zones 11 and 12 excepted?
Were these real deer biologists or some volunteers?
The harsh winters...heavier than normal snowfall (coupled with snowpack and icing), late snowfall and a lack of good acorn crop have all contributed to undue stress on deer. When they are stressed like this it has been documented that deer will abort their offspring/have smaller than avg. offspring/or only one fawn. Now add in predation on fawns.
Low fawn recruitment numbers lead to lower than avg. amount of a certain age class of deer.
Kind of like the average age hunters increases each year because we have fewer youths joining the sport.
When winter kills, thats winterkill, period.
"Low fawn recruitment numbers" I think you mean replenishment.
I just don't see the distinction the so-called biologists say exists. Remember, they said it wasn't winterkill, which you so accurately described, except for the predation, which is not winter only.
And, why are zones 11 and 12 exempt?
Winterkill is to kill by exposure to winter conditions OR to die as a result of exposure to winter conditions. It's arbitrary and could include both young and old deer.
I think Steve hit the nail on the head in his post above about people killing .5 and 1.5 year old deer. Since there isn't a diverse age structure in the herd in most places...any deer seemed like a good deer in the last 2-4 years and young deer are easier to kill than old deer....and now you have a perfect scenario where (as HH stated) hunters are killing deer at the same rate (or even better now) and their aren't deer to backfill the original population. And like magic, we have a smaller herd.
My only guess on zones 11-12 having more mature deer is that these areas had more food available since snow could have been a non factor in their lifecycle. But you still have unlimited tags in these area and the population is shrinking everywhere. The road kill report is obvious of that when you see the roadkills at 1/3 what they used to be just 5-6 years ago.
Pretty simple the does aborted or only gave birth to one fawn instrad of twins
They explained they did not see it in zone 11 and 12 ...maybe less snow slighter warmer on water but that is my guess
Deer in Maine head to winter yard ....ct has none
I keep trail cams out year-round. I've noticed the last 2-3 years, many does on camera not pregnant? I also haven't seen many fawns during the same period.
I primarily hunt zone 12 and am fortunate to have access to a lot of private land where I'm the only legal hunter. Deer have been so scarce, I won't shoot a doe and haven't for 2 years! I don't buy zone 12 isn't affected either ...
That's certainly a valid idea but only speculation. You would have to implement a tremendous data study to differentiate the cause in the reduced age class between hunting/management or environmental conditions. The DEEP certainly doesn't make any definitive statements without lots of data to back it up. That's why it is such as lengthy process to see any change in regulations.
If you think about it, periodical harsh winters have been occurring for thousands of years. It's part of the process that keep all animal populations in check. As cruel as it may sound. Deer populations, like all other living beings, fluctuate in cycles. We can't have high deer densities (optimal for hunters) year after year. Your going to experience some "good" years and a stretch of "bad" years.
by any chance do you work for the DEEP? Nothing implied just seems like there's some insider knowledge.
No, just a biology student.
One word of caution for a young person, DON'T believe everything your government tells you. WIth the government you need to follow the money to determine why they're doing something.
If you've been on the site for any length of time you'd know that there are plenty of arguments against deer harvest reports, tagging practices, deer surveys, deer population estimates, increases, decreases, using White Buffalo, etc, etc, etc from our DEEP folk.
As a student you are learning how to learn, so don't accept one set of "facts" as the only set of "facts". Always do your own research and get all sides of the argument, and good luck.
VanInVTown's Link
Modern bows, better arrows, better broadheads, game calls, rattling, decoys, baiting (where allowed), better scents, better scent free clothes, better camo patterns, GPS to find hidden spots, better science to understand the rut and deer movements, topo maps, etc. Even social media allows us to share info about where to hunt and what is happening.
Years ago many of these things weren't available. It may have nothing to do with it, but the article made me wonder????
Many, including myself think hunters should exercise more restraint to lower kill numbers.
If that is the case the article should be seen as good news. The article shows hunters are killing less deer. Isn't that what we have been preaching?
Wouldn't it be bad news if the article said harvest numbers were up?
Many, including myself think hunters should exercise more restraint to lower kill numbers.
If that is the case the article should be seen as good news. The article shows hunters are killing less deer. Isn't that what we have been preaching?
Wouldn't it be bad news if the article said harvest numbers were up?
Its a little schizophrenic. We want less deer killed but when less deer are being killed we see it as a bad sign.
If there are less deer harvested its a bad sign of less deer or we should assume people are cheating the system.
If there are more deer harvested it's bad result because we are greedy and killing too many deer.
As it stands now most alarmist interpret these reports as we are killing less deer so that means we need to kill less deer. It's not logical.
I think the others have made the point that those of us on this site represent a very small percentage of the hunting public, so if we decide to shoot less deer it has little to no impact on the herd population. MOST hunters will shoot anything that passes within range. IF that's the case, then lower kills means less opportunities, which could mean less deer available.
I would love to think that the general hunting population has decided to join in the fight to increase the herd by reducing the harvest, but even Santa can't deliver that wish.
BBB, At one deer per 16yrs, you don't qualify to be in the "we" category.
in those 16 years I had shot opportunities to kill lots of deer, but I let them walk. Last year alone I had 5 perfect broad side targets, 3 bucks and 2 does that got a pass. Like I've said all along, I only take mature bucks.
And just so it's clear, I'm glad I'm not in the we, you know, the group that says, if it's brown it's down. Way too easy, shoot at paper targets if all you're into is letting arrows fly.
