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Musings from a muser~(8o)

Been thinkin about lotsostuff.... 3 deer in the freezer but none by me.....YET! got me to A-muse meself.

It seems to me that the past 3 or 4 years have made for a progressively more intense active 2nd rut. It's been chase city around the SW part of the state and I'm actually going to try calling while sitting in a stand after Christmas. Could it be we're at the "premium" doe to buck ratio??

Jared's been hunting big mountain turf right off a major highway..... He's witness to all kinds of critters but.....Nobody else is out hunting hmmmmm

Possibly cuz they is the new to archery crowd of xbow shooters that have scored? I know 6 guys at work that use them.... 4 have given up hunting all together. Maybe they just were not serious hunters to begin with. Not tryin to start an argument.....

So I began to wonder how many new HUNTERS have been brought into hunting. Maybe that's why nobody's is out driving deer like the old days? I dunno..... So lo and behold on the other Pa site it's a knock down dragem out over on a thread about adjusting the increased antlered kill since x-bow introduction.

There's been several threads about lack of hunters and several about lack of deer..... Goodness it like watching the ole I love Lucy reruns lol Anyhow our old pal Ropn is holding his own over there :) and gaining popularity for sure! He actually appears to have calmed down some! Congrats Ron! He's knocken em dead over there.... Did ya notice on the rage thread after I made the 3 hunters round a campfire analogy, ss posts some burger pics and jethro calms down enough to get hungry roflmao. Maybe we should all eat together sometime eh ?:)

Lastly if you kill a bear and throw out the fat you are missing out on one of the best ways to prepare breaded venison EVER! I can't wait to try it in pie crust now.

Metikki, I'm not noticing any changes to the deer or the hunting of them as of late. That said, the rate of occurrence with respect to sissy pants'ing has recently broken it's own former towering ceiling. Additionally, my I-Phone and Facebook account are simultaneously blowing up with claims backed by photos of Mountain Lions in Pennsylvania. Last week I was driving down RT 422 and got pulled over by a coyote. Much to my chagrin he was wearing a t-shirt that read "Ferguson Strong!".......My world is upside down. Oh, and my wife just informed me that that our 2 teenage kids just bought me 6 dozen "RAGE!" broadheads for Christmas. I'm going to re-gift them to Roy, but don't tell him........rog'.

6 Rage heads should be good for at least a dozen deer.

Mike

Dale, I have this vision of you sitting in your blind, cooking hot dogs over your little buddy heater and eating them, while posting on the Bowsite with your I-phone:) LOL

I've been guilty of such.... Cept the eating part. I rarely eat while hunting. Having raised coondogs and various other hounds it's better to hunt them hungry. Therefore "I hunt hungry" :) this method has brought success , if you haven't noticed :)

My pointers that we never did see the number of hunters increase which we knew wouldn't. We did know the shift of rifle hunters to "archery hunters" was around 50,000 thereabouts.

Did anybody think about the effects of less hunters during rifle season? It's affects, some which may be good, but the monumental outcry of rifle only hunters? "Archers" are closing in on 40% of the buck kill. We knew that could be an issue.

I find this interesting and I'll bet theres some squirming going on over in Hburg.

It seems to me that hunting will improve for the reasons you listed - fewer hunters coming into the sport and more dropping out because of age, lack of interest...

As long as the number of hunters keeps dropping the PGC will have issues in how to control the deer herd. They may have concerns over the number of bucks being killed by bowhunters but their bigger issue will be in controlling the antlerless (and total) deer population. The deer herd could grow exponentially if does aren't killed off.

Another looming issue is the disparity in deer population on private versus public land. Here in eastern PA SGLs get hit hard. I'm sure that there are other SGLs in the state that are the same. I spent time at an SGL in Bedford County this season and saw a fraction of the deer I saw 10 or more years ago. I walked through some very prime area - clearcuts, pines, thickets - where we used to push 10-30 deer out and only moved three that I or my friend saw. I know the adjoining farm, which is posted and planted, hold a lot of deer but they stay put with the food and cover.

I'm waiting to see how the PGC handles this. It would make sense to me to have private land tags for antlerless deer.

Very true Phil. Jared saw vast amount of deer on a ridge once polluted with hunters. He saw very very few hunters during rifle season.

Dennis and any other taxidermists that visit.... Is there any changes between deer mount #s being brought in by C-bow hunters and rifle hunters? just curious .......

I hunted the first day of rifle this year in Warren County, 6 of us and not a deer to be seen, with maybe 10 shots herd all day. I'm thinking the almost extinct deer herds in the mountains has an effect on lower hunting licenses being sold? And with the yote population, I don't see the numbers increasing ever.

Around my place at home here, 10 years ago you couldn't find a tree to stand by, nothing but orange suits all over. Talked to the neighbor who hunted here the first day this year, not a deer seen, not a hunter seen, and only one shot heard all day. Our herd here got hit hard 3 years ago with EHD, I'd bet 60% of the deer died off.

I blame that Gary Alt guy:)

Dale, this probably won't answer you question very good! I always measured my deer as pre rifle and post rifle. Not sure why but I use to take 30% pre and 70%post. Over the last 6-7 years that started to change... As of the last 2 years It was closer to 70% pre and 30% post. I think there's a few reasons why.

I mostly agree with Phil's thoughts. With the hunting demographic is getting older and vastly increased competition with other 'sports', hunting numbers should decline. That said, they've been holding steady for a while, but I don't see it lasting forever. If that premonition is the reality someday then those of us who remain will see increased tag allotments, not a decrease as some would have it. Find us in an eventual state of say only 400,000-500,00 total hunters or so, and again, those of us still hunting would not only have more doe tags, but likely a bonus buck tag as well.

We hunted Beaver, Lawrence, Westmoreland and Bedford counties this year and didn't notice a decrease in deer encounters or opportunities from previous years. Just one day of hunting in Bedford, SGL 48, with G.D. Stout, but I have never seen as much deer sign in my life. Everybody up here that I know that takes their kids hunting, watched those young one's take a deer or two. Don't know of any adults that got skunked either. Talked to my buddy in Mercer Co. a few days ago and his clan-n-friends report, "....slaughtered them, Rog'". Several guys from worked tagged out at their camps in Forest Co. as well.

The weather on the west side of the state for the two week gun season was terrible with a mix of rain and freezing temps, so we did encounter fewer hunters this season. That makes sense and isn't the first time I've seen it happen in 30 couple years of deer hunting. Despite this the processors were still plenty busy and a number of them reported records last year of deer taken in. Speaking of last year, it was the polar opposite for weather with a fresh blanket of snow on the ground for the entire gun season, and as a result we saw hunters in droves.......deer too.

Just "our" experiences out this way, anyway.

I have 420 acres leased in Potter County, unit 3A, which adjoins state forest. I sat there until 11 AM the first day of rifle season, and heard 3 shots on the state forest. I was on top of the mountain, facing a huge ravine and flat behind it. Three shots on the public land.

Our deer herd in that area is probably 15-20% of what it was 10 years ago. Maybe less. I used to see 10-15 deer per day while bowhunting. Now, I see less than that in a SEASON.

Why drive 450 miles round trip for that? Why even bother hunting?

My entire family supported the PGC deer program, and were public land hunters in Tioga County. The PGC lost the support of all 5 of us when our public lands got shot down to being happy just to see a track.

Brad

I understand your frustration and I would also be frustrated in the same situation. But I have heard so many mixed reports from that part of the state that I don't know what to think myself. I do know what I have seen myself.

A good friend of mine has a cabin a couple miles NW of galeton. We have a gang of any where from 10-20 guys that have been hunting bear for 9 years now. We hunt all state forest from galeton to cedar run and also out towards cherry springs. We cover quite a bit of ground and 95% of our focus is on thick nasty clear cuts and laurel. I prefer to drive almost all the time, mostly because I'm about fed up sitting in one place by the time archery is over. Over the years I have seen some beautiful bucks and lots of deer sign. Granted not everywhere we go but I would probably say that 60% of our drives have deer out on them. Which during bear season we have kinda figured out that allot of deer sign typically equals not many bear. The exception to that rule however was this year on our first drive when I saw more deer and bear sign in one area than I've ever seen up there, and my only explanation to that was lots and lots of acorns on that ridge.

Back to deer... my friend and his family hunt these same areas in rifle based on sign we see during bear season. To my amazement most years they don't see many deer. Although some years they have managed to shoot some really nice bucks. They mostly stand hunt and some still hunting. They know they are in areas that are holding deer they just don't see them. The only difference i can figure from bear season is there are not guys up there pushing off those nasty thickets where these deer like to hide. They also comment that it's seems like more guys are hunting up there during bear season than during rifle the last 5 or so years?

I truly feel like there are plenty of deer to hunt on our state forest lands in that part of the state, and the same can be said for the Sullivan co. area where I have a cabin. They may not be on every ridge or in the same hollow from year to year but they are there. But I can also say that it is not easy at all and every deer you kill up there was well earned! There are definitely not the numbers that there used to be but there are still deer around, I just don't think the number of hunters are out there pushing the deer around.

The one thing I always try to remind myself when talking about this is that I was not witness to the glory days of deer hunting when the woods were covered up with deer. If I had hunted more during that time maybe my perspectives would change, I just don't know...

I think the private land doe tags would be a good idea, or brake 3A into east and west. We are on the eastern edge of 3A, saw 65 doe the first day, 10 - 20 each evening. I was only able to get one doe tag this year because of the cut back in tags. My 10 year old son used that with the mentor program in archery season. My son also killed the biggest buck that has been killed on our 200 acres, ever.

I don't think the harvest numbers have anything to do with bow, crossbows or rifles. I believe it's all in the timing of the seasons. If the rifle hunters season was the first two weeks of November they'd knock the hell out of them. If archery season was the last two weeks of November and the entire month of December not many deer would be killed. It's much easier to kill unpressured deer with a bow than it is pressured deer with a rifle. With rifle hunter numbers dropping off because the older hunters are either quitting or dying I thinks it's only reasonable that the harvest rates would swing that way as well.

Well the gun hunters didn't kill em all... or enough of them. I T-boned a buck on my way to work about 2 hous ago. He really mangled the front end of my truck. I wish they were ALL dead. Tick infested vermin!

Dang Jeff! Sorry to hear that! Been there, done that. It stinks! :(

Probably the only buck Jeff has gotten in a while:)

Glad your ok, Jeff...

Dale, its funny this thread. I saw this on Monday and didn't comment. On sunday when I left my Jersey spot (9am) I was thinking the same thing. No one is hunting but me. I saw not one truck that I could guess at saying they were in the woods. I pass multible places where we know people park. Last year we talked about it to, in Jan we rarely see people out.

Maybe they're home Amusing them selves!

Bill V.

Yeah. The good news is, it was my old truck. The bad news is, I just recently dropped the insurance coverage to just liability... and I need it to plow snow. It's always somethin'.

I have a good friend that lives and hunts in 4B. He is one of the best hunters I know. Last year he saw deer and bucks all the time. This year he didn't see a buck in archery season. He started getting them on his trail cameras after archery season.

The reason is likely that all the fields of corn were cut very late this year and it appears to have changed the deer's habits. The deer started showing up after the corn was cut.

I also believe a bumper crop of acorns has made hunting harder.

Phil, the corn was cut very late over this way as well, and again, the weather for the gun season was terrible. Last season was a banner year. If those circumstances 'shift' next year then the totals should sore, again. I think that some tend to microcosm a single season's sightings and kills in to a trend, but maybe I'm wrong about that. :)

Jeff, were ya' able to salvage any meat from your kill? Sorry to hear about the truck, btw. :(

I pretty much stopped hunting anywhere except the little woodlot behind my house. There is still standing corn along one side and boy is it holding the deer this year! Just 1/2 hour ago I slammed on the brakes as 4 does pranced across the road and into the woodlot.

It's a waste of time to hunt up on the mountain. I like it better up there where I don't smell the neighbor cooking on his grill, but the deer are few and far between.

I do my thing and don't give a hoot about what anyone else does or what weapon they hunt with.

Rog, nope, not a morsel. It looked like a tractor trailer hit it.

Ughhhh.

No lack of hunters in rifle season! hunted the first two days of rifle this year and it was a great experience. Got to hang out with group of light hearted hunters who never once cried about the deer herd. In fact most of the 15 hunters in camp seen deer. NO one scored the first three days, but an abundance of fun was had. I hunted gamelands in Mckean Co and there seemed to be guys everywhere the first day. Also hunted the last three days of the season. Lots of snow, and again there were hunters, but no where near as many as the first day. My hunting partner owns a few businesses and they seemed to do well from bear thru deer season. I saw a few deer taken this year out of those hills that would rival many of the bucks taken on the hunting shows. Overall hunting the Northern Tier has taken a turn for the better in my opionion. It seems deer numbers are up minimally and deer size has doubled in the years I have hunted there. I sat countless hours in the stand this fall. Deer were seen, passed on and some mistakes were made. Never a day goes by anymore where I sit and think to myself I am wasting my time. The opportunitys are definitely out there.

Amen, Chuck. Well said.

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