Who hunts near frac sand mines?
Wisconsin
Closest thing to sand mining here is when we take the kids to the beach on Lake Michigan, so am wondering if any Bowsiters hunt near frac sand mines or have knowledge of their environmental impacts and potential loss of hunting areas in your county? More than 200 mining operations approved the past four years. Have no idea on total acres "lost" or whether or not it was good wildlife habitat or not. I've heard some call frac "the other f word" and others are thankful for the job creation.
Your thoughts on a growing Wisconsin business?
Also good to hear Gov. Walker is perhaps considering stopping the use of hunting/fishing license fees by DNR to pay for environmental review of Gogebic Taconite's proposed iron ore mine.
Story says $260,000 has been taken so far.
Thanks for the link, more questions than answers there though RC. I mainly skimmed to the conclusions (where again there were mostly questions). The comments on the Journal-Sentinel article don't as near a rosy picture as you did so am interested to hear if we have any actual boots on the ground Bowsiters in areas impacted by these mines.
There's one of these mines right off Hwy 70 by the St. Croix River near Grantsburg. Here's my personal observations:
1. The trucks beat the living daylights out of the highway, but the good news is they take the sand into Minnesota so the Minnesota taxpayers are the ones that will foot the bill to repair the highway:( (Me)
2. There's a bean field about a mile or less as the crow flies from this mine that has a lot of deer in it every night so I don't think the mining operation bothers the deer.
3. I've heard they had some kind of spill get into the St. Croix River, paid a petty fine, and continued operation, although that is word of mouth and not verified.
4. My cabin is 4 miles from the mining site and the endless drone of drilling (or whatever they're doing) ruins an otherwise peaceful experience...you sit in your stand listening for approaching deer, or try to enjoy the solitude of the river and such, and all you can hear is that frigging endless machinery operating. Used to be nice and quiet around there; I can't imagine having a place closer or, God forbid, being one of their neighbors...it would drive me nuts!
5. Jobs, yeah it provides jobs. Mostly trucking jobs from what I can see, haven't actually driven down to the mine site to see how many guys are working there.
6. Have heard they are starting or planning to start mining more sand near Norway Point right near the river. There's definitely a legitimate concern about potential risks to the river as it doesn't seem these mines or regulated much.
7. Although the noise is annoying I have no problem with the process so long as they ensure no harm will come to the river, that's my biggest worry. Jobs in that area are a good thing. Just one of those industries you wish was located in somebody else's back yard instead of your own.
are regulated much, not "or".
Looks like there is one starting on the N/W corner of our property...This will beat the hell out of the Twp roads, provide endless noise, excessive speed, jake braking and overloaded trucks if the operation four miles from here are any indication. Hope the local deputies ride herd on the trucks. Our property might well be for sale....
Having worked in the mining industry for over 20 years and currently serving the industry in Canada for my biggest customer Suncor, I can tell you impact depends on how much rock they have to move. The more rock, the tougher the reclamation. For example, at the oil sands mines in Canada they are doing a real good job of reclaiming to the original grade and reforestation. They are operating in all muskeg, boreal forest, and sand. It is amazing how close to original grade they are able to get. You go to Morenci, Arizona, and it looks like they just raped the land because they had to move so much rock. Around open pit mines ungulates tend to flourish and grow some massive racks because of the unearthed minerals they ingest. I would not be surprised to see an increase in book whitetail near those mines if allowed to grow. Uncovering those minerals opens the door to potential Booners! Like everything else, it has both good and bad associated with it. As long as the water table stays safe, the impact can be managed. If they screw up the water resource, they should be crusified! I attached two pictures from the sub arctic circle oil sands mine. One is of a CAT D11 Dozer and the other is of a reclaimed section of the mine that had been mined down to a depth of over 100 ft. The top 22 ft. of the site was overburden made up of boreal forest, muskeg and other organic material. All of the muskeg and organic material was returned and the mine was replanted. At this location 11% of the mined oil shale was also returned to the site in a liquid form. They used a polymer to keep everything together.
Thanks RC, appreciate the link and comments, but you already posted your thoughts and another link earlier today. I'm looking for more input from others such as the posts from south farm and lame crowndip.
Don't know why the dozer picture didn't attach. Here it is. Up at the Suncor mine, there are some massive whitetails and mule deer. No shortage of bear in the mine as well.
RC, it has been clear from day one you post as Howatt; why you pretend otherwise with bogus red herrings is a total disgrace to what little — and I mean little — credibility you have left.
10, interesting post on the reclamation efforts in Canada vs. AZ. As for the minerals, if all it took was minerals to get Booners, there would be one in every woodland with all the multi-mineral supplements being fed. Whether the expensive "by the bag" mixes or the plain 'ole feed mill or Fleet Farm blocks, there's more mineral out there than ever before.
Naz, not saying it is the only thing. It does influence antler growth around mines. Obviously there are many factors, just trying to be balanced about it. It is one of the positives of a negative impact activity. Calling a spade a spade, mining tends to be a negative impact activity especially when poorly managed.
Chill Rancid, that is not what he said at all. He legitimately questioned my assertion of antler development around mines.
A friend of mine who owns land in Buffalo county has frac sand on his property as does his neighbor who wants to mine it .From what he was told .The procedure there was basically digging away a hillside .No open pits .
Thanks pineriver, and 10, RC always thinks it's about him and/or politics. This is not about either; it's about what impacts on hunting and the environment Bowsiters have seen when it comes to frac sand mining, and any opinions. As for Gov. Walker, like I said, good to see he's considering stopping the use of hunting/fishing license fees by DNR to pay for environmental review of Gogebic Taconite's proposed iron ore mine. That's not what those funds should ever be used for.
I also work in a mining site in central wi.. Basically we remove rock by blasting ect... and screen the soil away. The soil is put back into areas already mined and replanted.
It is a noisy process and the state has strict laws about our route of travel. The DNR and MSHA do random checks throughout the year and quickly fine the company if anything is out of order... water levels, water clarity, air quality noise levels, ect.
The property has wildlife galore and trespassing is often a problem.
This is a good discussion to open up! As Sportsmen, we all have a huge stake in this. I will say this, removing the frac sand is one thing, Mining in Iron County is completely different. Even though I rely heavily on mining for income right now, I think the risks to that region are greater than the benefits. If I were in charge, the iron mine would not happen. It's a totally different animal and the watershed /aqua fir in Wisconsin is way too dedicate to allow that type of mining. It's not a win/win for Wisconsin and we will regret what happens up there in the long run. Besides, the majority of those jobs are NOT going to Wisconsin citizens. They are going to the best qualified/most experienced they can find in the industry. People that have no stake in our state and move to where the money is. No conspiracy, just good business sense on their part. I would do the same if I opened that mine. You add to that, the majority of the iron oar is headed for China, now you have a case for economic treason. IMO
As I have stated in earlier threads I hunt near fairchild. There is a huge sand mining operation on hwy 12 a few miles outside of town . They have been buying all the land they can get around my hunting area. They even offered my landowner 8 million for his land. He told them he has no use for 8 million dollars and would rather just stay farming. Not to mention all the taxes he would have to pay. Another farmer who owns the other half of one of the "blocks" I hunt just sold that land to the mine. They paid him in full and gave him permission to farm the land rent free for the next ten years as part of the deal. So, I will eventually have some noisy neighbors. I don't think this will hurt my hunting in that area because it should keep the deer on my half of the block once they start mining it. The area is close to the highway and town so I am used to the trucking noise anyway. This industry has brought a lot of good paying long term jobs to an area of our state that was hurting bad economically. I may feel different if I lived up there and had them as my neighbors but my opinion right now is that as long as they reclaim the land after they extract the sand this industry is benificial to the region. I also agree with 10ob in respect that the unearthing of minerals may help grow some massive racks.
Naz, that money should have never gone to that purpose in the first place. It is as wrong as Tony Earl using money set aside for ATV parks/trails moved over to highway construction.
I just want to be on record as stating I am FOR mining, but AGAINST noise...if that's even possible! (Talk about riding the fence, eh?)
This thread got me thinking about other types of mining in other areas near us. Up on the iron range there are numerous pits that have been reclaimed and turned into way-side rests, parks, off-roading areas, trout ponds, and even one adventure park with swimming beach. Near Crosby Minnesota same thing with some of the best fishing pits known to man. Nearer my home they mine quartz gravel and use the empty holes to bury all of our garbage/refuse. In Mike Mitten's book "One with the Wilderness" he has a chapter on chasing and killing huge bucks that reside in the overgrown tailings from old coal mining operations. I guess my point is mining doesn't have to be the awful horrible disastrous impact on wildlife and nature that it is so often portrayed as. I think that image is a result of whacko environmentalists that are simply against anything and everything. With a bit of regulation and oversight there's no reason mining can't benefit us all in one way or another, because let's face it, whether we want to admit it or not, we need what comes out of the ground!
The Heartland Institute? That's the group that worked with tobacco company Philip Morris to question cancer risks from secondhand smoke, and to lobby against government public-health reforms. They also sponsor meetings of climate change skeptics and promote use of public funds for private schooling. Koch Bros. one of the many donors.
To the others, good points; more things to consider than may meet the eye and ear.
Ask folks who have land up to but not purchased by mining companies,how they like it. Regulations needs to be more than a "bit" as someone mentioned. There needs to be a stopping of any more permits until there is a balanced study of all impacts they can and will have.Then take it gradually on permit by permit basis, yes we do all use the resource but we don't have to have the "gold rush" mentality of the industry and some folks. Nothing wrong with approaching it in balanced way that will minimize the the negatives impacts as much as possible. Remember only a few are directly benefitted by the mines but the majority who live in or near the areas are not. They need to be a heard also.
If crude stays this low for an extended period of time you may not have to worry about frac sand mining for very long.
If crude stays this low for much longer we can all buy land in Russia dirt cheap! I've always wanted to moose hunt there!
SteveD, "bit" is a relative term...meaning somewhere between zero regulation and the Obama-adminsitration type level of regulation...in otherwise a common sense approach not dictated by nut jobs far right or far left.
JRW, you are right about that. The Saudi's are flooding the market to drive us out. When it hits below 45.00 a barrel it will shut the frac mines down.
I don't know much about mining but here in Waupaca/Winnebago Co. I cannot drive 5 miles without seeing a gravel pit, some are huge. Highways are all over just go by Wausau and Oshkosh. Shucks where I duck hunted as a young Lad in Green Bay there is a Large bridge over the wetlands. This past year it sunk and cost a lot to be repaired. A lot of land here is being sold off in small packages for homesteads. Our very nice land is lost forever a piece at a time. I don't know about these large mines but are they worse that what we are doing all over. Its sad to see
