Novemberforever's Link
Heard that before somewhere...
I have seen a lot of this before and it's another cluster to say the least!
Naz, you, on the other hand, show nothing but your continued and unsubstantiated dislike for Kaz. If you were more interested in doing your job as an outdoor writer, you would be informing the hunting public with facts instead of agenda.
The things like a two day buck season, antlerless tags and APR's are merely tools that would be in the toolbox of the CDAC's. They may never be used but they need to be identified should the need ever arise for their use.
Of course you know this, only your purely agenda driven personality precludes you from writing with any objectivity.
That said, even a Kaz fan like you must agree that we're not moving closer to simplifying hunting rules. Now, let's hear from RC at work:
From: Howatt ........ Date: 14-Jan-15
"I think bonus buck is to encourage taking more does in areas where the hunters see a lot of does and as an incentive to kill those does. I guess it could by that definition put more fun in hunting. Remember, its an optional thing. You dont have to do it if you dont like. Its better than the old punative EAB which was another government mandate that people hated. This is optional = better."
Ah, right on cue.
Let's look at the net effect of these proposals which are designed to raise the antlerless harvest 1)No buck season for 2015 in central farmland zone-a) huge drop in license sales/revenue b)much lower antlerless harvest due fewer hunters 2)2 day buck only hunting- a) much lower antlerless harvest due to nobody going back in the woods beyond opening day 3) Bonus buck- no problem if it was 3/1 ratio. No bio science can show a 1/1 antlerless for a buck tag will drop dpsm when 33% of antlerless are nubbies anyway. None of these proposals would raise antlerless harvest, in fact they would have the opposite affect while lowering license revenue. As far as Dmap is concerned, 115 landowners signed up last year out of 400,000 eligible properties. The Dmap head responded to my email and was eager to speak with me concerning dmap. I gave him my cell 31 days ago......tic tic tic
"When Bonus Bucks in a deer depleted state is the #1 call to fame, you know you have failed miserably."
I don't believe the state is deer depleted. In the north they have a deer depletion issue. In the farmlands, no.
Good one, adding it to the post after the fact. You've done that your entire career here, through multiple bans.
Glad I'm ignoring "him" and only talking to "Howatt," it's a lot more fun. Remember, these chat rooms are all about fun!
You guys can get back to trashing one another now.
Of course you and I (maybe not November) know that these things are nothing more than potential tools to possibly be used in the future, should a county committee feel they are needed.
As far as simplifying rules, at this point there is no rule so what do you base that comment on?
November, business, accounting, UWM. Did you miss common sense 101? Everything you said is nothing but conjecture at this point.
Do you understand that we get laws either by rule or via the legislature? Do you really understand how the system works?
* * * Door County Conservation Congress chairman Dick Baudhuin, who chairs the meeting but doesn’t vote unless there’s a tie, said he’d like to see deer populations managed closer to overwinter goals. At an estimated 40 whitetails per square mile of deer habitat, the Door herd is more than 2-1/2 times larger than what DNR wildlife biologist Josh Martinez said many consider healthy for the ecosystem. However, Baudhuin acknowledges that without earn-a-buck and October antlerless deer hunts — both tools taken away by the Legislature in 2011 — it could prove difficult to knock back the herd if hunters don’t voluntarily shoot more does. At its Oct. 23 meeting, Door council members talked about the pockets of high deer densities and access — or lack of — to these areas, as well as management tools that might help achieve a reduction. Ideas included increasing doe tag numbers, giving more free antlerless tags and earning an extra buck tag by shooting additional does. In the end, though, hunters in farm country more or less control their own destiny by how often they choose to pull the trigger.
* * * In the past, the county population estimates — currently two to three times larger than what the previous goals were — would have put the units in mandatory earn-a-buck, and included an October antlerless gun hunt. Instead, Door County Conservation Congress chairman, large-tract landowner and avid hunter Dick Baudhuin said there aren’t a lot of tools left in the DNR’s tool box for dealing with growing herds. “We talked about increasing the number of free doe tags and earning an extra buck (by shooting a certain number of antlerless deer first),” Baudhuin said. “But part of it is that not only do we have to educate and encourage hunters on shooting more does, we need to educate the non-hunting public on the fact that hunters need access to places where deer densities are too high.”
* * * Coulthurst said landowners who accept damage payments must allow public access, but many instead take shooting permits with no compensation so they can keep their property private. Citing concerns of a lack of public access to some of the areas harboring the highest deer counts, as well as the yet-unknown impact of crossbows and loss of mandatory deer registration, the Kewaunee County CDAC recommended stabilizing the herd, or “status quo,” for the next three years. The group did, however, recommend an educational effort that hunters in areas of high deer numbers should try to target at least two antlerless deer for every antlered buck taken. DNR wildlife biologist Jeff Pritzl said the only time that’s happened in the past decade was during earn-a-buck years. In Kewaunee County, for example, the antlerless-to-antlered harvest ratio was as high as 2.8-to-1 in 2006, an EAB year, but the past five years without the “doe-first” rule the ratio was 1.1-, 1.0-, 1.0-, 1.0- and 1.2-to-1, respectively. One of the Kewaunee County representatives, at an Oct. 22 meeting at the Muskrat City Sportsman’s Club near Kewaunee, said he believed that many hunters will target more antlerless deer in years when they’re seeing more. He cited the state record antlerless kill in the year 2000, when there was no earn-a-buck restriction and the deer herd had swelled from three mild winters in a row.
* * * Baudhuin shared a late October email from a hunter who said he was already hearing some complaints about how there aren’t enough deer around and that the deer advisory council doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Another hunter, after hearing about the concern over lack of forest regeneration, said he’s also trying to grow select species: big whitetail bucks, and lots of ‘em. “That’s what we’re dealing with,” Baudhuin said. “The average hunter doesn’t see a problem with too many deer.”
It's hardly a different tool - but a tool nonetheless.
The Door County CDAC voted unanimously for a baiting and feeding ban as a mechanism to reduce the herd. I was at that meeting and not a soul spoke in favor of drawing deer onto sanctuaries by means of feeding or shooting them off of bait piles.
Others (including myself) spoke of eliminating the practice. One of the CDAC members articulated that it should be done away-with since half the counties already have a ban and it's a distraction in the the remaining half of the counties.
I hear they won't be allowed to use that tool. What's all this talk of as many different tools then?
Where do you come down on picking-off a hapless deer munching contentedly at a corn pile?
Typically the pin comes down off the spine about 3 inches back of the shoulder blade.:) JK
I don't bait, never have. However, a 7 acre bean field is food, just like a corn field, a bunch of oaks dropping acorns or a pile of corn. This survey addresses the big picture.
Good. Glad to hear you believe in fair chase. You are one of the good guys.
Nevertheless, you did not answer my question. You are equivocating.
After all of this talk about the DTR and the CDAC the Door County CDAC voted unanimously for a baiting and feeding ban as a mechanism to reduce the herd.
In a word - the people spoke.
If a politician or bureaucrat (not a scientist or biologist) says 'don't you dare touch that tool! That practice is sacrosanct.' Then they pretty much have staked-out the position that 'hunting' has devolved to picking-off hapless deer from corn piles.
Agree or not?
In the same breath they're embracing those that lure deer into sanctuaries during the hunting season with their feeders.
And in the end the population isn't controlled.
So much for power to the people. I call cluster.
They also likely know that it's a way for "the little guy" to compete with those able to hunt more quality properties (ag lands, private food plots, etc.) and also get a lot of votes from non-hunters who just want to feed and see wildlife. All in all, that's a difficult thing to tell folks they can't do.
All that said, recreational feeding often lures/keeps multiple deer in no-hunt refuges, whether municipalities or even rural areas with homes and businesses and cabins away from areas hunters can recreate. Whether you agree with it or not, at least "bait" is placed with the intent to lower the deer population. "Feed" more often than not, is not.
In a perfect world, recreational baiting might be banned Sept-Nov. at minimum in hopes of having deer spread out more "naturally" … but it's a pipe dream. Even in banned areas, it seems feeding hasn't stopped. An example during the statewide bait ban following the CWD fear factor discovery, "Horse Apples for Sale" and "Squirrel Corn for Sale" signs popping up with bags piled high, and feed mills continuing a brisk business. Guess there were a lot of squirrels and birds to feed.
Thanks Capt. Nicely wordsmithed. Nothing better than a perfectly clear ambiguous non-position, position on the matter.
You don't strike me as a politician. Please don't tell me it isn't so.
Naz your forgot the huge bait plots. They congregate far more deer on private land then baits do.
If you want rules create an antler restriction similar to MN. Many hunters complained at first but now are happy with what they are seeing. There are plenty of deer around and many big bucks which cause for some heart pounding exciting hunting. Something we don't hear much of in WI.
If you want rules create an antler restriction similar to MN. Many hunters complained at first but now are happy with what they are seeing. There are plenty of deer around and many big bucks which cause for some heart pounding exciting hunting. Something we don't hear much of in WI. "
Hey dbl lung...
Since 2010 when the legislature assumed deer management I've often thought that EAB might be a useful tool for units that are way over goal. Maybe only 1 out of every three years would contribute to a healthier buck:doe and age ratio.
Bonus buck not so much.
