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The December doe/fawn gun hunt up north was taken out in the northern units under the emergency rule, but he recommended it be returned for the permanent rule. The amendment passed.

On the other hand, he doesn't want the holiday hunt to be permanent in the south but instead be an optional tool (which is what I think most originally thought it would be, not permanent).

He also is asking for no need for approval by two-thirds majority of counties in a zone for more herd control options, but rather individual counties be given the option to have an antlerless-only bow and gun season and a holiday hunt season. He also wants them to be able to add options annually instead of the current recommendation for three-year season structures.

Wouldn't that help with simplicity? LOL

That one also passed.

Stay tuned ... he's only got three more.

Take the power away from the citizens who hunt the area? Simply outrageous!

Time to give him a call and let him know he is not a friend of the deer hunters in my woods!

Because it seems to be lost on some, I'll state the obvious. The season needs to stay as a season in the event it is ever needed in the future, as a management tool. Kaz has the ability to see beyond his nose and plan for the long term, not just for the present. The fact is, without any available tags, no deer can be shot, regardless if there is a season structure in place.

The Holiday hunt should not be permanent, it should simply be used as a management tool, when needed.

"He also is asking for no need for approval by two-thirds majority of counties in a zone for more herd control options, but rather individual counties be given the option to have an antlerless-only bow and gun season and a holiday hunt season." The DTR has put management of the herd into the hands of the people by moving it to a county level. Deer populations can vary greatly in short distances so why would anyone want a vote by an entire zone? This common sense idea keeps the management at the county level and not at the much larger zone level.

Again, I don't blame you guys who read Naz's drivel for your comments. You just need to take a moment and understand what is being done. Naz's agenda is to attack Kaz, without regard for the benefit of the deer herd or any thought process. He uses the public by slanting his articles. This latest display only reinforces either his ignorance or his agenda. Tell us Naz, which is it?

Since this is Bowsite, I knew bowhunters here would like to know how a December up north doe gun hunt that had been removed by rule was added again. Many here have stated that gun hunters already have 19 straight days up north to try to fill tags, and if they can't, maybe no more does should be shot. In fact, we've read here for years that the December doe hunt should be cancelled in northern forest units.

Doe tags are issued by the DNR with an expected success rate. Additional days would affect the success rate. Unless the DNR knew before hand and adjusted the number of tags issued an additional season would increase the harvest to above the desired level.

With winters and predators — as you and many others have fully stated in your past arguments to close the December antlerless gun hunt up north — it's not like the herd is going to grow out of control if this wasn't put in as an option.

Mike F, you really don't get it... The DTR gave the locals the ability to manage the local population. Jeez...

"With winters and predators — as you and many others have fully stated in your past arguments to close the December antlerless gun hunt up north — it's not like the herd is going to grow out of control if this wasn't put in as an option. "

I thought you always stated the population will rebound fast and there are all kinds of deer in the north? The Dec t-zone was put in as a tool that could be used, if needed, so "if" or "when" herd reduction is needed, they wouldn't have to go back and revisit the rule.

No 10, Kaz does not own any hunting land anywhere.

Naz, you are completely unable to hide your agenda. Pretty convenient how you ignore listing all the Board members who voted for these measures. Ron pegged you with that one.

"Naz, you are completely unable to hide your agenda. Pretty convenient how you ignore listing all the Board members who voted for these measures. Ron pegged you with that one. "

Dang Ronny, even Mike knows your Howatt handle is Ronny ;).

OK, back to your attacks on Naz.

The public weighed in on each of the discussed tool "options" so it was easy to vote for something the public approved.

And who is the NRB chair again? Wasn't he a reappointment from a Doyle selection? Did Preston have issues?

I heard Kaz demanded the end of global warming and stupid reality shows....This guy must have a set.

I might sit on a barstool but at least I'm not in a tinfoil hat drinking out of a SpongeBob sippy cup;)

An Archery shop in Pewaukee.

Oh really? So the "no doe northern zone" dumps 10,000 antlerless via youth tag party hunting and You really believe no tags will be available? That's laughable. A dec. doe hunt in the north should show everyone the Dnr is feeling really good about 5-15 dpsm. Anyone north of hwy 29 should get used to the current herd level. Nothing is going to change that. Why a Pewaukee business owner would encourage dumping doe in the north with no dog in the hunt is a real mystery. I feel really bad for the guys in the north and thank god I am in a 96% private land county. My neighbors and I control dpsm not the Dnr or a archery shop owner in Pewuakee.

But wait, I'm sure it'll be in the next issue of WON.

Ron, would love to show where you hopped on the bandwagon of "cancel the December gun hunt" but unfortunately, each time you've been banned here all your posts go with it. No inventing, and you're not fooling anyone with your alternate handle.

As far as the rest of the board, I said all amendments passed unanimously. However, the fact is there would be no December antlerless hunt up north had Kaz not put it in as an amendment.

I understand about tools in the toolbox and how fast deer herds can rebound with mild winters. That's how I feel, but I know many here disagree and won't like the amendment and would want to know how it came about. That's it. No head spinning, just the truth. Those who tell the truth don't have to invent stories.

"The public weighed in on each of the discussed tool "options" so it was easy to vote for something the public approved."

Wrong. The public did not approve a December antlerless hunt up north. Questions were for the southern and central farmland.

Nov, if you know of anyone party hunting during a youth hunt you should be reporting it to a warden. Did you? If not, put a cork in it.

Why are you such a hater of youths and the chance to get them involved in hunting? Are you simply saving it all for yourself?

And of course, even a dolt like you understood my comment was aimed at doe tags given out to the public and not to youth tags.

Maybe you need to put your Levi's back on and watch a couple more softball games. With the correct therapy, there might be help for you.

Why are you such a hater of youths and the chance to get them involved in hunting? Are you simply saving it all for yourself? "

Tenelle, Do you really think the 10,000 doe taken in the north was during the youth hunt? They were taken by Uncle Mike, legally party hunting. Hater of Youths? I have hosted 7 youths taking their first buck in hours. Saving it all for me? I passed 87 bucks in the gun season and never pulled the trigger. Get a life and tie up a bunch of flash flies and shine them flashers for your clients.You are consistently abrasive. Save it for your clients who hold a reel like scooter.

Wasn't that the point of Kroll's recommendation to restructure the management zones? So that we could put herd management decisions in the hands of hunters at the county level. Obviously that was a gem of a recommendation. Mr. Kroll, a little advice, it will never work because the modern hunter by nature is too lazy to participate! They want the greatest satisfaction with the least effort. i.e. crossbows, ATV's, heated shooting houses, high tech compound bows, releases, bait piles, food plots…All you need to do is look at most hunting methods and tools to figure that one out.

You guys are missing the really really big picture. :) It's obvious we need to have tags in the north. To help ensure deer numbers are kept at a bare minimum. This will help precipitate the increased expansion of the wolf population across the state. Allowing for herd control in southern private lands. Where the DNR has little control on the herd. :) :)

Spot on. Oh how some, with land to the south (Mike) are so naive and try to speak for those to the north. No does needs to mean NO DOES period. Nothing against the youth, but they don't need to be coddled and given exceptions to areas where no exceptions should be allowed at all.

+1 FullDraw2015. I agree that a guy who owns a crappy archery store in Pewaukee should not be recommending anything in regard to the north.

No tags, no Dec T-zone. Population become where a county needs reduction, Dec T-zone available.

The deer management plan needed to include the future, not just next deer season otherwise, you would have to rewrite the plan.

The dumb idea would be to ignore the possibility of needing herd reduction tools.

Yes, Glunker.... the north would be much better off with EAB (rolling eyes)

Grab a gun and start shooting coyotes, allow people to bear hunt on your land, cut forests properly and when antlerless tags are available, don't use them.

Sorry, nobody can help the weather and the wolf issue is still a problem.

It is my understanding the 10K doe taken in the north was addressed and corrected.

What ignorance are you speaking to Mike? Is it your's in thinking that group hunting for does with youth's tags did not happen in the north where there were no antlerless tags? You seem stuck on the word "ignorant". I really think you just learned it and promised to use it in sentences daily. You are from the south and really have no clue as to what is occuring in the north. You seem ignorant to it in fact. November was 100% correct and you try to turn his comment into an "anti-youth" rant. Please use a mirror once in awhile. Try to learn a new word here and there too.

Happy, why does the word "ignorance' bother you? Hitting close to home? There certainly is a lot of it showing up on this thread. Anyone interested in understanding need only take a little bit of time to understand what is going on, instead of writing words before they understand. Sorry, but that is a classic definition of ignorance.

There, I'll be away for the weekend so I got my daily use of the word in ahead of time.

RC, Capt. you guys are right the Stepp comment is inappropriate but, the more I watch this, the more pissed I get. Her idiotic laughter sent me over the top. I'm glad I watched though. Never saw anything like this before. None of these people should be making decisions for anyone or anything.

I'm just calling it what it is. Stepp is exactly what I thought she was, she is nothing more than a figurehead, YES person! I've been watching each of the presenters, not just KAZ, and Stepp has added absolutely nothing to the discussion. Talk about wasted taxpayer dollars. In that entire room, the left hand does not have a clue what the right hand is doing. They were amending amendments that were previously voted down. WHAT? Enough to make your head spin.

Interesting and educational! Every kid in school should have to watch this crap as a demerit! It really illustrates just how broken politics is in this country. I would not give you penny for any of them.

Try this: We want to put the 4 day antlerless deer hunt back into the 2015 deer hunting season. All in favor say Hell Yeah! All opposed say Hell No!

Not sure what part of that Dec antlerless you cannot understand but if there are no permits then there is no hunt, regardless if there is a season framework or not. This will be addressed on the county level. I suppose I don't expect you to get it this time as we have said the same things before but that is what it is. No permit, no hunting.

Lastly, you seem to be passionate about this. Why don't you get involved? You will soon see there is no easy answer and much political maneuvering that must be done. Seems like some here like to bash Kaz but he is involved only because he cares about it. The difference is, he has followed through, spending countless hours and lost time tending to his business. Call that whatever you may but how many of the rest of us are willing to let our livelihoods suffer to pursue something like this?

Doesn't bother me at all Captain. I just think you should understand what it means before you use it incessantly and inappropriately (i.e. November’s post). You are welcome for the edification.

10, you are correct on Stepp being a figurehead and a "YES" person.

Happy, can you name any recent DNR Secretaries who were not? Earl, Hassett, Meyer? At least Ms. Stepp defers to those who have more knowledge.

As one last reminder on this issue, the entire Board voted for each of the amendments passed. ENTIRE, meaning ALL OF THEM. Why no criticism for any of them? The answer is simple. Most of you do not even know the people who make up the Board or their affiliations. You are riding a Naz joy-wagon without a clue as to where it is going.

Good try Mike, but it was his content/message you bashed not his cryptic lingo. No need to slant now.

"At least Ms. Stepp defers to those who have more knowledge. "

She has to defer because she lacks the knowledge to do her job at all. She is a complete "yes" woman, no better than the others in that position before her. Because the others were incompetent too does not make the statement any less valid.

As for the Naz joy-wagon - nope, not me. I am not a follower of anyone here. I just call 'em as I see 'em regardless of political party, race, creed, gender. Not a blind follower or hater like a couple of you.

I do hope Ms. Stepp didn't injure herself when she fell to her knees laughing. Any other interpretation is a figment of your own imagination. LOL

Capt. I got that about no permits, no hunt. Didn't miss that because it is irrelevant. However, he kept saying it was part of the original structure. That is totally false. Kaz kept saying hunters want the original structure. The Dec. deer hunt was not part of the original structure. The December hunt was not introduced until late 80's or early 90's. Same as the muzzleloader hunt. If his intent is to return to the original structure, then we need to go back to 9 day gun deer season only, Spet. 15 to Dec. 31 archery season and either party permits or hunter's choice. To achieve original structure, every other hunt has to be eliminated. If he is not willing to do that, he is picking his battles, whatever the reason may be.

I find November to be one of the smartest people (extremely well rounded and well versed) here although the top 3 in self-proclaimed-know-it-all smarts and self-pats-on-the-back will be offended by that. I'm thinking too that with his self-worth, he is quite the businessman as well. Seems some are envious and jealous of his capabilities to live life above their own means. Envy is not a good thing to carry along with you...

That said, Mike still doesn't get it. Yes, the entire board often unanimously passes amendments. That's not the point. The point is this amendment would not have been voted on had Kaz not injected it in there. I get that Doyle, Walker etc. were never on the NRB. My point is how many of you opposed to all things Doyle and supportive of all things Gov. Walker would have jumped all over any "lib" who proposed a December gun antlerless hunt in the "decimated" north? Wait, I'll answer that: ALL OF YOU, and you know it. Your blind support of Kaz is simply because Naz is pointing out who brought the amendment into play.

As for Sec. Stepp, 10, I have to disagree with you as she's been nothing but receptive to ideas on both the fish and hunt end in our county and region, yet isn't afraid to play the devil's advocate and show how things aren't always as easy and "common sense" as we think they may be. I have to say I think she has helped the DNR immensely from a PR standpoint in being a smiling face and willing listener, and much more. She has shot at least two deer, maybe three, and seems to really enjoy hunting, unlike some who might just do it for the show.

Finally, I listened intently for Kaz to point out how wrong using "sunset" with the crossbow season was, but never heard a peep. As a matter of fact, the DNR Powerpoint presentation again showed the word "sunset" and Tom Hauge stated around the 57-minute mark that there would no longer be a sunset for implementing the crossbow season. Obviously, there can still be changes made beginning in 2016. I get that. But the point is being attacked for calling a sunset a sunset .... that's just wrong. On the other hand, I'm used to it with a few of you guys! Have a great day, on to school.

Nah, just calls 'em as I see 'em. Me thinks you are very envious/jealous of November's net worth and always seem to bash him for being so successful in life while being able to articulate without belitting. He definitely has you on those multiple accounts Ronny. I think you can learn a thing or two from him.

Naz, how many times did Stepp hunt and how many deer did she shoot prior to being appointed in her current position? She is as much for show as the others. She is a decent spokesperson but there is no doubt she is given her direction to take.

noun

a stipulation that an agency or program be disbanded or terminated at the end of a fixed period unless it is formally renewed.

Though it is still designed to run concurrently with the bow deer season two years, the change appears in the wording where NRB green sheet says "the rule has been modified so there is no sunset after the 2015 season." Most believed this would be a two-year "trial" and then modified as needed. The green sheet, right or wrong, makes it appear as this: if there's no negative impact after the 2014 season, no need for further rule-making, and it'll continue as is.

After reading the meaning of a sunset provision above and considering that since "sunset" was the word used in the NRB green sheet, the word used in the NRB Powerpoint and the word spoken out loud at the meeting yesterday, you're arguing semantics. I understand your point about the original rule wording. I hope you can understand mine reporting it just as it was called in NRB meeting materials.

You have to remember, in order for this to be a viable management program to last many years(not just next year), there would have to be some sort of herd control tool if populations would deem it necessary. If this was not done, not only would this need to be revisited, it would not be socially and biologically sound management and would leave the opportunity of politicians meddling in the future. I.e. if/when a different party takes control(i.e. Doyle-ish) and tides turn against the hunting community.

IMO, if Kaz, as a bow hunter, wanted it his way the season would probably look like this. Bow season remains the same, 9 day gun season, same muzzy...crossbows used only as a lessor weapon. No group bagging, no special antlerless hunts, and antler restrictions. He'd probably push each county to provide necessary documentation to prove a "reduction" stance from CDAC and he would rally every hunter he could too support an increase. Again, in my opinion.

There was no way he could do this as he knew he would not have the current support of the NRB but also, the management plan would be changed as soon as the political party changed in WI.

So he kept the December T-zone as part of the standard season framework to keep it simple for hunters and CDACs. Remember, no antlerless tags= no one hunting. If there was a limited amount of tags and they are filled= no one hunting. Thinking about it, after over two weeks of hunting pressure with gun powder, it is probably a nice break for the deer from the hunting pressure. The Dec T-zone harvests were never that high of harvest anyway.

Also, the rule changes antlerless tags to be weapon specific. Last year, antlerless tags were not. This played a role in the youth tags which were statewide and a youth could shoot two with a gun, even in the north.

Pardon me if I incorrectly state the rule exactly(I will verify and let you know) but I believe the rule either eliminates group bagging for the youth tag or gives the Dept the ability to remove it. I also believe it give the DNR or CDAC the ability to remove the youth antlerless tag if the population is too low and no antlerless tags are issued. Now, jump on my back(Naz) if I'm incorrect in any portion of the above, it was what I got out of a conversation last night. There was a more pressing issue of that discussion which I was preoccupied on so I may have a small memory lapse.

"Sunset" is just a word and probably not the best in this situation. What needed to be addressed by the NRB and DNR is that there was no mention of a crossbow season managed by administrative rule after 2015. This needed to be acknowledged or else it could be construed as there was no crossbow season in 2016.

Either way, "sunset" as used by the Dept and posted by Naz, is really no big deal. The only issue I have with it is that it does confuse some people into thinking that after the "sunset" it removes the separate license/season. As Mike stated, the "sunset" is only the time frame which the seasons must run concurrent (plus 2 years to change because of act 21).

The same people would be complaining if we reverted back to managing under Deer 2000. SAK estimates would state the deer are there, antlerless tags would be issued and you would have a Dec T-zone.

I think some people have a short memory.

While the numbers have climbed, so has the area. In other words, the kill was still very small considering the total acreage.

For example, the graphic showed that in 2014 youths age 10 to 17 tagged 3,277 antlerless deer in units with no antlerless quotas. That was over about 13,000 square miles, or about one doe/fawn killed every four square miles (2,500+ acres).

That said, I agree buck-only should mean just that, and sounds like it will in the future (perhaps with exception of disabled hunters and active military).

What is needed now is not allowing youths to use their doe tags in counties where does cannot be shot. No does should mean no does for everyone until the herd rebounds.

Geitz - very good explanation, thanks

And I do hunt there.... In the big green area of Marinette. The green area of the "northern forest" which did have antlerless tags in 2014. Am I happy about it, No but absolutely no one in our group and the surrounding landowners purchased or used antlerless tags in 2014.

Again, I'll make it real simple. There was no added hunts. There is no hunt if there is no tags. You must think about what could be in 5 years and have tools available.

But then again, maybe you would like to revert back to Deer 2000 and the DNR issuing 2000 tags in addition to the free one on your archery tag based on a SAK number. Don't forget, the T-zone would still be there.

I just heard the DNR is opening a state-wide Elk hunt Sept 1st. The DNR has a harvest quota of 0, has issued 0 tags but everyone who has a tag can hunt.

This really isn't difficult to grasp.

That means that Elk will be shot by the Indians :). But then again, they don't need a season to do whatever they want. Yes Geitz, I know you were joking. Good explanation above BTW. I just don't see a T-zone ever being needed in the north in my life time again. It can sit there idly to be drawn from if ever needed. Not a bad strategy.

that would mean, stick bows, and during gun season, weapons would have to have exposed primers......

thought it would be cool, and fit the environment

wish we had a primitive season, thought it would be cool,,,,,,,,,,

If - hypothetically-speaking - a county wanted to bring back an October antlerless gun hunt for one or only a few years as a herd control measure for locations where deer populations are approaching 40 DPSM would that scenario be completely off the table?

On the surface it would appear to require legislative approval.

Turkey....I've said it several times, wintering hotspots will always occur. I doubt this is a indications of the entire area. There is no Oct T-zone unless there is an action by the legislature. But Oct T-zone became a worthless effort.

If there is too many deer on your land, the best way to handle the situation is to shoot more deer. If you do not have enough tags, then allow others to shoot. I've seen whitetails which have been pounded hard stay away from an area which they have been blasted. If you are concerned about your trees, keep on blasting. Otherwise(and sorry), don't complain. The answer is right there...either you do not want deer or you do. But you cannot complain if you chose not to shoot.

We're trying - killed 22 in the last five years on our little patch of 80 acres. So, I'm not complaining about lack of opportunity.

Thanks for clarifying about the legislature. I suspected as much.

Naz is correct about the herds. I had eight come traipsing through the tall grass behind the house yesterday afternoon and we've counted as many as 20-30 in the corn stubble next door.

2015 = Brown is down.