Advantage to In Person Registration
Wisconsin
This was the first year that I tried Sturgeon Spearing and I found the whole process very interesting. Very family/friend orientated and thought I would pass this on.
http://www.outdoornews.com/February-2015/See-the- advantage-to-in-person-registration-of-game/
I have drawn a tag a few times and registering sturgeon was like opening weekend of gun season. It was a lot of fun to see all the sturgeon come in and get measured and weighed. Some of them were absolutely huge.
We've been down this road a long time, and I see a lot of advantages of phone/online for honest hunters — especially early bow/crossbow when the weather is warm — but think the negatives outweigh the positives in the month of November, at minimum.
Thankfully we may be able to debate this without being belittled for "wanting to take our deer for a ride to show off" which is not at all what's it's about. The gun season for sure, and even the main rut for bow/crossbow, I've always believed should be mandatory in-person. It's another tradition lost and will make it easier for the cheats.
So many hunters don't believe the numbers now. Imagine this fall when you can phone it in — whether or not you got one. Or you can forget, cut it up and then be too afraid to call it in so you don't. Or you can buy tags for additional family members and phone 'em in. Hope I'm wrong, but I believe the bow/crossbow buck kill will significantly increase for this very reason. Yes, the majority of hunters are probably good, law-abiding folks. Even if you believe it's as high as 90 percent honest, that still leaves tens of thousands who aren't.
http://www.outdoornews.com/February-2015/See-the-advantage-to-in-person-registration-of-game/
"So many hunters don't believe the numbers now. Imagine this fall when you can phone it in "
Naz.... Deer are not managed to a number any more. This is key to understanding the new management plan. 1 or 650,000 should not matters. Satisfaction with the hunt (for hunters) is key.
It is a new concept but 100% spot on. Now managing for satisfaction is a great concept.
Once again, I'll show my ignorance because I would not think that the cheaters are anywhere close to 10% of the hunting population.
Jeff, with deer not managed to a number any more, hunters in two-thirds of the state should have been absolutely satisfied then in recent years.
Mike, OK … even if you believe 97 percent of hunters are honest — that's only 3 of every 100 hunters sitting too late on purpose, illegally baiting, etc. — that's still tens of thousands of hunters. That better? And I think 3 out of 100 is unrealistic.
With only about one warden in the field for every 4,000 or so hunters, can't just look at the number of citations each year. Wisconsin's warden force could quadruple and they'd still be far short of being able to sit on all the leads they have.
"Thousands of other spearers and interested parties looked on as the fish came in.
Media had immediate access to the spearers. Photographs, stories, first-person accounts of the experiences were flying across the state and beyond."
While there are some benefits it seems that the one "Media had immediate access to the spearers." that drives this is the media. If I would like to keep the details of a harvest (other that what the state requires as to numbers and sex) to myself I should be able to. Just my $.02-LC
Beat a dead horse even after the carcass has dried up and blown away Move on to a current cause!
Past stations concerned about loss of business could offer contests (random draw would be easiest among all deer booked) to get folks to stop in …. or offer use of computer kiosk/desk area …. or phone …. could also offer prizes for things like most points, largest outside spread, etc. Just some thoughts. Maybe even a photo contest. Anything to drive/attract traffic. There's a lot of camaraderie and congrats at the stations during the gun seasons, esp.
What exactly does managing for satisfaction mean. Because the DNR has stated many times that they do not and will not manage for quality. Now they aren't managing for quantity. What in the hell are they doing?
The loss of business is highly over rated IMO. I know several places that either now register deer or have in the past and none of them brag about the business that the get from registering deer. During the gun season they generally have to put on another person or two just to register deer and the added sales don't even cover the extra people.
I know when I register a deer I generally don't buy anything there and if it is it's maybe a soda and a piece of jerkey, total profit around maybe $1.00 to the store.
I agree with you Zinger. The gas station or bar that I've registered at are actually bothered by the fact that they have to stop what they are doing to come out and tag your deer. As someone mentioned above, let's move on.
I'm not sure what sitting too late or baiting has to do with electronic registrations.
Zinger +1.... My last nice buck registration , was such a hassle, you know why, "cause I cut a deer up, and they went crazy".... even though allowed, the dimwits did not know that, then the inquisition per the dnr, geesh, what a hassle..........
I agree with Naz on a lot of issues but hear I have to part ways, phone in is the way to go, no problem out west, why would it be hear,,,,,,,,
"Naz.... Deer are not managed to a number any more. This is key to understanding the new management plan. 1 or 650,000 should not matters. Satisfaction with the hunt (for hunters) is key."
Another "WBH Moment" from our legislative liaison from the WBH.
Key to understanding the new management plan?? Follow in lock step even when it is wrong?
I think not!
What ever happened to fighting for what is right, not just following the dollars?
And you wonder why the WBH is losing members?
I get what he's trying to say, but "satisfaction with the hunt" is pretty general. If satisfaction is measured in opportunity, most hunters who put in their time would admit having it …. even in the "lean" years. If satisfaction is measured in animals seen or deer shot, etc., we'll always have plenty that won't be satisfied due to the spots they hunt or how they hunt (not talking most of the passionate, experienced guys). To some, seeing 30-50 deer a day is a good hunt. Some wouldn't be happy if they didn't see 10-20. Others know all it takes is "the right" deer. Still others know it's not realistic or healthy for the forest to have so many deer. A healthy balance is the key. I'm not sold on 10-15/sq. by any means. But having 50-100/sq. isn't needed either.
Naz, Lean is different from skinny,Northern Wi. I hope to see a track. But then I come home and see tons of deer,however I really love Northern Wi. for the different hunting options.
I know for some I am spinning my wheels, hunting the far north, if you are looking to see a lot of deer, including good bucks.......
But for me the hunt is so much more,,,, the smell of fall in the northwoods, can not be copied, the amount of land I have to roam, I could not buy,,,,,
The challenge is there, and so are the nice bucks, in fact, last year, I saw some of the nicest bucks ever taken in my area during bow......and still I never saw one good one, yet the sign was there......
Rifle season, was poor, but once ML season came, I was into deer every day, and saw 42 in a week, and that was hunting deep woods
Its not for everyone, its time consuming, and the rewards, is not always in a punched tag,,,,,,
If your looking for an easy hunt, this is not it,,,, if your looking for remote areas,, and like solitude, with a good chance at getting a shot, its up here, for you to find......
one thing I can say, you will meet guys that you would like to share a camp fire with, lot of quality hunters in the far north,,,,,,,,,
Mike F, you have the answers, why are we not pursuing your ideas? I'll answer for you. Because you spend your time criticizing on the Internet instead of committing real time and energy to insert yourself into a position where you could possibly do something meaningful.
That legislative liaison position you are so quick to belittle has spent more time in a month fighting for hunters than have 99% of the people who cheap shot him have spent in their entire lives.
You marginalize yourself with comments like that.
CaptMike-
I do not have all the answers. Never said I did. I do fight for what I think is right and registering the deer and other animals over the phone is not right in a biological sense. Without data on age class that had been take during the registration process we loose a valuable tool in biologically knowing what has been harvested.
I have said all along, with phone in registration we have no idea of any age classes of the animals harvested.
Now, if the DNR would require a tooth sample form every deer harvested like they do with the bears harvested we would have the information to set harvest quotas, etc.
As far as me criticizing the position that Jeff has, and myself committing real time, energy and money to the cause. I do, through hunter safety, youth hunts, and other things. I am a life member of the WBH. I believe that Mr. Geitner knows me and what I stand for.
If I offended you in any way, I am sorry.
No Mike, not offended. We all do what we can. I just did not care for what I perceived to be a cheap shot at Jeff.
Regarding registration, there are far more states that do not utilize in-person registration than those that do. Why are we so different?
CaptMike
We are different because we have so many hunters and over the counter tags. All of the other states that I have hunted have draws for the tags.
We have the best of the best when it comes to deer hunting.
I would not like it if our season was cut down to a week or two or have to pick one season or the other just because the biologists don't know how many deer are on the landscape.
Can't believe DNR is doing away with the requirement to register in person. Never heard anyone complain about it! Phoning in your deer has its advantages I suppose but it will be abused big time.
Phone in registration does not relieve anyone from having to immediately and properly tag the animal.
I've also never heard anyone complain about registering deer. I heard plenty of guys say last yr turkey hunting, " oops I forgot to call in".
I wonder if this will cause people to forget to tag their deer also?
The girls that work my local gas station are so hot I don't ever want to phone in my registration! Gives me a legitimate excuse to pay them a visit:)
Is call in/on line registration going to be an option for gun season? If so I can see that becoming a fustercluck. Especially with the group bagging, and groups that shoot a lot of deer.
Rut, it may be the only way in most areas. Warden I talked to said they might have some of the traditionally busiest stations open opening weekend of nine day hunt for aging but nobody seems to know for sure. A cluster is right.
It would make sense to get the in-person data on the opening weekend of gun season since that is when the most deer all year are killed. It will be great for the bowhunters, especially early season ones, to not have to drive a deer around.
Agree. Even Doc Deer himself when I first brought that up agreed opening weekend of the gun hunt should continue in person. Unfortunately that's not the way the rule change goes.
Naz presents a good example of how the DTR was compromised with public input. Not all aspects of the DTR came from Dr Kroll.
One more experience of the deer hunt has just been eliminated. To this day for me it is still a neat deal to drive around and see the deer being registered by other hunters. Especially during gun season. That first buck I killed in Vilas County with a rifle, I drove around with it in the back of my pickup to every registration station I could think of. Shared my experience with fellow hunters and celebrated their success with them. That is lost in this rule.
Eliminating in person registration is bad for small business, is bad for the future of hunting, is one more tradition of deer hunting that has been lost. It will in-part, take away what I believe is another social aspect of the sport. A small part of the sport, that bonded all of us together. It will lead to cheating! Any other thought is completely delusional. It will hurt an already small business segment by taking revenue away from registration stations that would sell consumer products, beer, soda, snacks, cigarette…to the hunters that proudly brought their deer in. Wide-eyed young hunters won't enjoy that proud moment when total strangers shake their father's hand or give him a pat on the back for job well done. Mostly, it will fail those young hunters, by eliminating one aspect of hunting that would otherwise help to hold their interest at a time when we need every tool possible to keep them interested. It will as the good governor says, "Divide and Conquer" us even further. It is a huge mistake made through ignorance!
Should have prefaced my comments by stating that Dr. Deer, in a private conversation, said he agreed that mandatory registration should continue opening weekend of gun hunt to facilitate data collection. It wasn't the DNR/public that got rid of it. It was politics.
I have no idea, why you can not have both, that would be a common sense approach,,,,,,
My point remains valid in that not all aspects of the DTR came from Dr Kroll.
You guys say you've never heard anyone complain about having to register in person? I had to drive 20 miles each way to register my deer when I gun hunted "up north" before I could start cutting it up. Early season bowhunting if you didn't make a perfect shot and you had to track the deer the registration stations were closed before you got the deer out so you had to wait for morning before you were able to start cutting.
This won't affect small business at all, for most places they lost money instead of made money registering deer.
I understand the social aspect of the registration station but that should not be even considered, it's not the states job to entertain you and your kids.
As for not calling them in you do know that with in person registration you can still cheat right? If you don't want to, or you forget, you have the deer tagged and take it home and cut it up. Will some people forget to call them in? Of course but people forgot to register them before as well.
I agree with Zinger, having to register in person, is a general pain in the a.., if you are up north. another ridiculous thing they made you do, was no you can not register the deer from Florence, in Crivitz, on your way home to Green Bay, because its out of the area.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DID IT MAKE, YOU ARE PUTTING DOWN, THE AREA IT WAS KILLED IN........ talk about being brain dead.......
oh yeah in person registration can be a real pain, however, you could still have both,,,,,,,
Zinger, it is not about the state entertaining anyone. That is not even the point.
So if you own a corner store and guys no longer come in with the same frequency on opening weekend of the gun season to register deer and buy a few items that doesn't affect your bottom line? Bull! Store/gas station owner I talked to is pissed. She asked to keep her registration station open and the DNR came in and took their materials. Couldn't get at the sign so they left it.
Of course people cheat now but, why make it easier? Why dangle a carrot in front of them?
10 I'm sure there are cases where it might have helped the store but overall it didn't. I used to work in the fishing industry selling to a lot of these little stores that registered deer and almost everyone of them wished they didn't do it. Sales from people registering deer were very small and it required the one person working there to go outside leaving the store unattended. On opening weekend they would need to hire an extra person or two just to register deer and the registration fees often didn't cover the wages to the extra employees.
I know a bar that lobbied and had petitions all the time trying to get to be a registration station. About 10 years ago they finally got it. He thought it was going to be a boom for his business. After a couple years all it did was fill up his parking spots with people waiting to have their deer registered who didn't buy anything and since the parking spots were full real customers left.
to say it should stay just because its a social thing is stupid! to say it should stay because it might add a couple bucks to someones cash register is stupid! if you want to drive your buck around and show it off to a bunch of strangers, you still can. Get over it.
I was concerned at first that it could lead to more "poaching" and it might but minimal. Now the more I think about it I'm all for it. As far as the aspect that the DNR might lose statistical accuracy from in person registration... Who cares? They've proven they can't do a very good job with the "accurate" info in the past so no biggie. It might actually help if they give up on their current methods.
Let me get this straight. We talk about how under staffed the wardens of WI are. We talk how there should be no new rules that make their job harder. Yet the rule that will "simplify" things. Will actually be an enforcement nightmare, especially during gun season.
Why is it an "enforcement nightmare?" Wardens will not be charged with verifying if each and every hunter killed a deer, and if they did, was it registered properly? They will continue to do field checks and to follow up on tips. Why try to manufacture something that is not there?
I personally enjoy sitting at the bar the night of opener watching big bucks roll in and get registered. That is part of the fun and tradition for my friends and I.
CaptMike, if you can't see it, me explaining it will do no good. You choose to believe the system is perfect in every way. Some of us are realists.
"to say it should stay just because its a social thing is stupid! to say it should stay because it might add a couple bucks to someones cash register is stupid! if you want to drive your buck around and show it off to a bunch of strangers, you still can. Get over it. I was concerned at first that it could lead to more "poaching" and it might but minimal. Now the more I think about it I'm all for it. As far as the aspect that the DNR might lose statistical accuracy from in person registration... Who cares? They've proven they can't do a very good job with the "accurate" info in the past so no biggie. It might actually help if they give up on their current methods."
+1
I took part in the pilot program last year and was able to register over the phone, it worked very, very well and saved a pain in the rear. Contrary to what some here believe, the fact that I did not have to take my deer for a road trip so the teenage girl at the gas station could hand me a metal tag to go put on my deer did not make me want to run out and break every law I could and become a poaching law violator. And for whoever posted that losing this requirement will cause young hunters to lose interest is a looooong stretch, come on. Lack of deer caused by the DNR giving out too many tags and instilling the CWD fear factor along with the "OMG if we don't kill every deer we won't have a single tree left" bs that is being sold these days is causing way more people to drop out and lose interest that a mandatory road trip with your deer will.
Sorry Rut, apparently you view the average person as a law-breaker. I do not. If this country were to shape every law to focus on the law-breakers, the law-abiding people would be living under very restrictive regulations. Probably similar to communist countries.
Time will tell. I don't like it! Think it is a bad deal. I hope I am dead wrong. Hasn't Wyoming done this for years? Don't they set up road blocks to catch poachers or guys that have not either properly tagged or registered deer? If so, seems to me the cost/time of enforcement and setting road checks/blocks would be more costly than having a simple registration station.
Let me see, someone forethought put a system in place that WORKED REALLY WELL and stood the test of time for how many years? 80 plus? Why did it need to be changed? The only ones that are inconvenienced by, or don't want laws/rules are the rules/law breakers!
Like I said, I hope I am wrong.
I think in-person registration does lead to better data. But, I am not a fan of having to lug the deer around. One of the things I like when I kill a deer in MI, is that deer don't have to be registered there at all. You tag it and you are done. MI gets their data from the surveys they conduct and claim it is accurate informaton +/- ?% for the most part. In no way, can survey data be better than having the physical deer present. Now, if nothing good is done with the data, then why bother. I am not convinced that the WDNR is very good at data mining. We already know they are incapable of counting/estimating anything well.
Hunter-you are an oak. Not having to cart an animal so a teen-aged girl can look at is sure to turn guys into poachers!
Happy your point is well taken.
well I went to the source. the biologist told me he would get better data from phone registration. more info is asked,, but agreed the gun hunt could be a problem,,,,,,
I am a big fan of Michigans programs, they work and work well........
at least give it a chance to work........
I will miss the camaraderie of opening day evening at the likes of 8-Hi in Goodman and North country Inn in Dunbar. I know people can still stop there but it won't be the same.I remember when my son first stared to hunt and he had a field day looking at all the bucks in the back of trucks.Always saw some people there that we only see once a year. Was part of the great tradition.Just my thoughts
I will miss it as well. It can be a pain to lug deer around, but it was all part of hunt. I think our day's of seeing accurate numbers are over. There's a lot of honest people out there. But, this provides a big opportunity to bring out the worst.
On another note, I looked up just in time to avoid the sky that's falling!
Yeah I kinda thought this was a done deal anyway. No more mandatory drives with the dead deer is a good thing, I have faith most will warm up to the positive change in time.
As far as improvements that might not quite be a done deal yet making it worthy of discussion (maybe); anyone know if backtags are on their way out? That also would be another huge improvement and loooong overdue.
HunterR - What information did he DNR request from you when you registered?
We have dial in and on-line registration here in IL. I am glad for it when hunting far Southern IL in early Oct. It can be hot.
When you register, the DNR will request the number of deer, turkey, bobcat sightings, depending on the year you may have to give them a hoof measurement or from the eye to the nostril.
I was wondering if WI will collect data of a similar sort.
orion
I did the online registration last year. I registered one over the phone (have pen ready lol, and repeat several times to get registration number). I also did one online method, which I would suggest and prefer, because it has a prinatable registration number that must be written on your tag and kept with the meat until consumption is complete.
They ask sex, age, weapon, county, date, unit, and time of kill I believe? Similar to turkey registration.
Thanks Pete.I don't know that the IL DNR actually does anything with the data that they collect now, but I figure that some biologist will put it to use somewhere down the line.
I think it's a good opportunity to get some information from hunters. As long as they keep it short, I wouldn't mind doing the same kind of thing in WI. I think it could be beneficial for the herd.
