Wisconsin Bowhunters 2015 Convention
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
2015 Wisconsin Bowhunters Association 74th annual convention will be held March 6,7 & 8 in Oshkosh at the Best Western Premier Waterfront Hotel and Convention Center. There will be seminars on sausage making, turkey hunting, trail camera photography and others. Bow harvested trophy displays, vendors, stories swapped and meeting old friends. Awards Banquet on Saturday night and membership meeting on Sunday.
For more info click on the WBH logo on the Wisconsin homepage or call the WBH office @ 715-823-1385
Kind of hard to believe they still have enough members for a convention.
Unless you are currently involved with them, how would you know anything about them?
Where they when the crossbow was being rammed down our throats?
10, they were in the fight defending bowhunting. Maybe if more bowhunters were members it would have had more clout.
Of the few winter hours I work, when I am back down here, its next weekend. Friday I have to be at EAA, but if I can get someone to fill in for me on /Saturday I will be there......
Last time 2 years ago, had a great time.....
CaptMike, I just recently let my membership go. I know plenty about them.
Sad that more bowhunters take the WBH for granted. If it wasn't for the WBH we probably wouldn't have any season.
Also sad that the WBH doesn't listen to the members. Totally unbelievable that they still let violators be members too.
I am a life member. I have seen the good and the bad, and it's getting better.
Won't be there, been busy with family. The first time we won't be going in a number of years.
Not sure how anybody thinks that a group like the WBH could stop crossbows. Those days are long over. Money and greed rule today, and nothing else. Get use to it. Im betting there are lots of "improvements" ahead.
Smokey, you are right on! Rut, without WBH, how will you effectively help address future issues concerning bow hunting?
Capt. Mike or any others who'll be there, if you can do me a favor I'd appreciate it. A couple years back I donated a "take a kid fishing" trip to WBH for youth fund. A grandfather purchased it for he and a couple grandsons. We tried to hook up several times that summer but if it was a good date for both, either the fishing wasn't "hot" that day or the weather didn't cooperate (like to make sure it's a hot bite and smooth lake when I take kids fishing) so we postponed. I had told him to get in touch with me last summer, but he didn't, and I misplaced his contact info. If someone has this on record, who won this, please PM me the info. Thank you!
Naz, I am not attending but Geitz might be able to help.
"Where they when the crossbow was being rammed down our throats?" That is a good question for many. Those who were in the fight know who was there.
CaptMike, My big gripe with WBH is that they always seem happy with the status quo. They are an old boys club, and happy with that. They seem to not care that a large portion of bow hunters have never heard of them. They are also content to operate mainly in one portion of the state. Move the damn convention around more. Has it EVER been in the west/west central part of the state? Has it ever been up north? If WBH is so great, why don't most pro shops sing their praises? If the org was all that some want you to think it is, shops should be at the very least informing young/new bow hunters about it. I have been to shops all over the state, and never once heard a word about WBH.
I know from previous readings in WON that Mike Brust was very active on the wolf front trying to make sure the WI hunt stayed afloat and with higher quotas. He knew what a farce the quota was in 2014. This was obviously prior to them being relisted. I commend Mike for that and assume he was representing the WBH when doing so.
This will get me attacked for sure and I am not recommending it, simply putting it out there, but I wonder if the WBH would be stronger going forward by allowing xbow hunters? This obviously depends on the what the "fight" is. If the fight is larger scale in nature, then the strength in numbers would be good. If the fight is to get rid of, shorten, or re-strict the xbow season, then the point in moot. xbows are here to stay and probably in full inclusion forever, so it might be something WBH would eventually need to consider to gain membership.
Rut, I won't argue with what you said. A big problem with many volunteer organizations is that there is a relatively small core group of people that end up doing all the work. These people are there because they believe in the organization and/or the cause. That does not mean that they have unlimited time to do all the things needed to make an organization successful. I'm sure they would welcome new members and helpers, along with their new ideas.
Hunters in general are a pretty apathetic group. We don't take the time to make our desires and opinions made to the people that matter. Because of that, we sometimes end up people in positions of influence that are not representative of the wishes of the majority. I don't have any answers to that other than for each of us to get involved to the extent we are able.
How can you have an organization that benefits bowhunting when the membership cant agree on anything? God forbid in todays world that you actually take a stand on something and stick by your guns. Today is a world where you dont take a stand on anything for fear of "offending someone". Why do you think the WBH took a neutral stance on the baiting issue? Because they thought it was good for the resource or bowhunting? No, its because they didnt want to offend anyone and potentially lose members. The masses want a free for all. Keep the technology coming to make things easier, and dont tell me how to hunt. Sad but true. Clubs are for fellowship and thats about it.
If an organization had a relatively equal number of members on both sides of an issue, what position should they take? Should they risk decreasing their size and ability to accomplish things? Once in a while people need to put their personal preferences to the side when dealing with larger issues. The above attitude is a perfect example of hunters being apathetic and ineffective, simply because of a personal preference.
So how effective is an organization that doesnt take a stance on anything because someone might get offended? What did they accomplish by not taking a stand? Mission accomplished if the sole purpose is to never make anybody mad.
Some of you guys don't know what your talking about. WBH plus other organizations did the best they could do!! How many of you went to any of the meetings in Madison ???? But… You will come on this site and whine and complain about the WBH. For you guys that want crossbows in the WBH……. forget it!!! Join the 20 member crossbow club.
I hear a lot of griping here. I am included in that group.
My question is how many of you were there on the floor at the convention when there were issues that had to be voted on.
Who was there against crossbows, who was there fighting for what we have today?
Who was standing up for the members when they wanted the violators removed from the club.
I was there, but don't recognize any other names.
What can we as bowhunters do for our hunting heritage?
Feel free to PM Me
When I went on this site in 2001 The first post I read was about someone not being happy about the WBH .
I have been a member from 1968 to now , missed a few years while traveling . I look at the WBH the same as the NRA . I pay my dues every year , even a little extra some times . I'm very thankfull for some of the stuff they do for us and then there are times when I want to quit and throw the leaders off a cliff .
Local bow club , gun club , WBH , it doesn't matter . 2 to 4 % of the members are active . The rest go along for the ride . That gang has not changed and its very normal .
I have lived or Bowhunted about 15 states . Some of you have no idea how good WI bowhunters have it . and you can thank the WBH for a lot of it . Are they perfect ? nope , but like the dingalings in the NRA they are al we have and they work very hard for you .
Right on Ruger, Life member of NRA ,WBH plus others. People that complain about things typically aren't members of any associatin. It's like when I was a board member of my snowmobile club .People would complain about rough trails or trails closing and wouldn't have any idea of the effort to get permission from land owners or the effort to clear trails & brush them out.They would buy a sled and just expect the trails to appear,never bothering to join a club.While I can't always be involved in clubs I support as many as I can be because we would be in trouble without them. Just my opinion
Glenn, You talk all the time about the "crossbow wars" and how you were in the trenches trying to stop them. I find it funny that you then make the claim about being a NRA member. The NRA supported the crossbow inclusion in WI. I guess when you were in the trenches fighting against crossbows you were really fighting with yourself. :>)
I will miss this one but The Wisconsin Traditional Archers will have a booth there. Stop on by and say hi to Gary. I will be cashing in a pig hunt the wife bought me in FL. Hope to make the 75th.
Like I've said before there was very little if any press in SE Wisconsin about how fast of a track crossbows were on. I know, I felt blindsided by it. If someone would have put a petition in my face I would have signed it. The circle of bow hunters I communicated with were all blindsided by it. Not diminishing the contribution of anyone in the fight but, you certainly can't put up a fight if you have little to no intell on the subject. The stake holders did a pretty good job of squelching any opposition in SE Wisconsin.
10, whose job is it to put a petition in front of your face. If you read WON we had a full page, $1,400.00 "advertisement" in it because Dean Bortz refused to print our perspective, although he gladly took our money. Our members knew about it. Even for those who do not have or are not willing to spend the time doing these volunteer jobs, membership in a club is important. Beside the nominal cost of membership, those clubs get the benefit of more numbers, along with a way to alert members to issues that arise.
Regarding the "no press" statement, you'd be best advised to ask the various outdoor writers why there was not much coverage.
Rut nut if you were a member in the past, you must not have read your WBH magazines when they came. You would have found out that the convention has been in Wausau, Stevens Point ( 3 years ), Wisconsin Dells and Lacrosse in recent years. We asked our members who attended where they would like to have the convention and most said central part of the state. If you were a member why didn't you look in the front of each magazine to find out who the director was in your area and ask all the questions you wanted. I live in the west central part of the state and try to make a lot of 3D shoots in and out of my area. I try to drop off membership forms when I go. Most are archers who are too cheap to spend $ 25 a year to support the sport they love. But a lot have no problem dumping $1000 for a new bow every so often. Go figure. Old boys club? Do you realize that most people under 40 don't give a rip about joining or even volunteering to help out the sport. All about me. We welcome new ideas and anybody who would like to share their passion for giving something back to the sport. People that have hidden talents with marketing, fundraising, grant writing, finance are always needed. Not many are willing to. Some shops don't care for us. I use to put membership forms in some archery shops, then come back a week later to check and they would be all gone or shoved to some remote part of the counter. They didn't like our stance on the crossbows for everybody? Current members can also be a BIG help by helping out promoting the WBH. All the directors are VOLUNTEERS who are trying to do their best at what they know. We are not PERFECT! So don't say you know plenty about them. I'm sure you probably have never met ME! Where where they when crossbows were being rammed? Can't reach EVERYBODY WHO CARES! Pick up WON, we were always getting our butted kicked in by most. God I'm glad I'm a VOLUNTEER! I'm sure I pi##ed off half of somebody.
Same thing happened with compounds, you should learn from history.
Ruger, I believe you served on the board if I am not mistaken. Thank you for your time.
Yes there are few that serve, but how many boards can we serve on? We all have our passions and there are times we have to choose and end up on the short end of the stick.
Yes Wisconsin has it great compared to many states. I just hope that we can pass on the tradition to many more generations.
I guess it just ticks me off that we have over 200,000 licensed bow hunters in Wisconsin and the majority of them could care less about the organization that got us to where we are today.
What should we have learned, to not do anything?
Mike F, I agree. That is why I feel that most hunters are apathetic. They allow others to determine the rules and guidelines they must follow.
"I guess it just ticks me off that we have over 200,000 licensed bow hunters in Wisconsin and the majority of them could care less about the organization that got us to where we are today"
As it ticks me off that the WBH are happy to sit around and reminisce about what good they did in the old days. How hard can the org be working when the majority of bow hunters in the state have never even heard of them?
Capt. I'm not pointing fingers and no I did not wee WON. I agree the outdoor writers did not perform diligently in reporting it. Of course that is more a product of a lack of journalism today. Whose job is it to put a petition in front of my face? I honestly don't know but, then I couldn't name one member WBH. My point is, there was a break down in communication somewhere along the line. The word didn't get out to bow hunters until it was too late. Just my opinion.
I do wonder, if continuing a crossbow season was put to a referendum, would it pass? MY dollar says no way. I think it would get crushed! To me we are being force fed something the majority of bow hunters do not want. IMO, that is a shame.
I was not trying to highjack this thread and should get back on point. Is the convention open to the public? What is a the cost of membership? What alternative is there to the WBH?
How hard is it to sit behind your keyboard and bitch. Join up or do something about what bothers you. I'm sure you have some good ideas. Ours don't sound like it.
Like somebody said above MONEY controls most aspect of life. Politics, sand mines, cross bows and 345,000 volt power lines thru western Wisconsin.
10, I may not be exactly correct on this but the crossbow issue was voted on for 3 or 4 years before we got it. Every year it was voted down. Again, our members were aware of it as we informed them. Only the NRA, the Wi Bear hunters and a bunch of misguided politicians are to blame for it being implemented. That it was not widely publicized was a calculated plan by those in favor of it. With that, I also will let this thread get back on track.
The N.R.A. and crossgun manufacturers were behind the legislation. W.B.H. didn't have a chance against them. "They" knew it, and took full advantage of it.
Bman-
Thank you for giving up your time, energy, and part of your life on the board.
Bman …. see you at the convention !!!!
The 50th anniversary was in Greenbay.
Mark , you are correct , the NRA decided that protecting our gun rights was not producing enough imcome so they decided to get involved in hunting . Their goal was to expand hunting oppertunities < recruit more members and make more money > .
Yes I was very involved with the crossbow fights , as a board member and as a archer fighting my own battle . I talked and e-mailed the WI NRA rep many times . He's not very bright and talks like a trained Parret . RC and I fought toe to toe with this guy . It was a complete waste of time . They outnumbered us in fire power and money .
The WBH knew the crossbow was coming and there was no stopping them . They did a fine job of delaying them for a few years . For those of you who were not at the meetings for the last 5 years , you don't know how hard the board and some private archers worked to delay them .
I felt like I was at the Alamo waiting for Sam Houston < 10,000 new members > to show . They didn't .
Glenn, Just trying to make a point. We always hear that even if we dont agree on everything an org stands for we should put aside our differences and stand together united. My example shows how illogical this is. If your passionate about bowhunting in the state of WI, and thats a big IF...., why the hell would anyone send the NRA their money to help the NRA undermine our bow season here with crossguns? And then in the next breath, the same guy gives the WBH money and time to help fight against the inclusion of crossbows into our archery season. Anyone who can find the logic in this kind of thinking should be working for the government.
"Anyone who can find the logic in this kind of thinking should be working for the government." I don't find the logic in that statement.
There is much logic to it. On this single issue, the NRA let archers down. Problem is, many archers, like myself, are also gun owners and as far as protecting firearm owners rights, there is no other group that comes close to the NRA.
I too am a life member of NRA, have been for many years. I did consider quitting them over this issue but feel my 2nd Amendment rights are valuable enough to me that I should remain a member.
That did not stop me from fighting them on the crossbow issue. As an aside, their "not very bright" legislative liason was removed from that position, and not long after this issue hit the fan.
Geez Mark , any idea just how powerfull the NRA is ? Its way more important than any archery org ever will be . The fact that we are armed to the teeth with guns and ammo is the only reason the govt has not turned into a bunch of Nazi's and storm troopers .
Ever read the story about Russia Planning WW3 to take us down . One of their top aids who went to college in the USA talked them out of it . He told them he would be invited to homes on weekends for dinner . After dinner the Americans would bring out their firearms and show them off . He told the generals we have a army of 100 million .
My part time hobby of firearms has helped my family , 4 daughters , and 13 grandkids .
The NRA is great about 80 % of the time, so is the WBH and my Wife . None are perfect but I'm not getting rid of any of them . For now anyway , ;-]
Crossbows are little different from today's compounds, just another 15% let off, both fired with triggers. Compounds enabled the transition to and acceptance of modern crossbows, no sense fighting it.
I shot fingers with the compound sawtooth. Gonna have to give that a try on the crossbow...
What exactly is left to defend.. The WBH use to have a Bowhunter defense fund.... defense against what????.. They caved on baiting when asked by the DNR to be the first membership driven or to support the DNR in a statewide ban of bait and feeding of deer... they were asked... so the polled the membership to see the groups feelings on it... it was clear the membership agreed to support the DNRS effort by a fairly wide margin... yet that never happened...Strike #1... then they caved on xbows... some how claiming that allowing them but using a separate license wasn't really allowing them in our bow season...LOL... ahhhh.. Strike #2....
Then they have chosen to allow poachers and violators to remain. As members I stead of cleansing the org....Strike # 3...
It amazes me as some have said that there are enough folks still on board to even have a convention at all...
Roy Case must be proud of how this has all transpired.
Like I said, no sense fighting it. Compounds directly led to the crossbow season.
Glenn, I get it. The NRA was the fly swatter, and Wisconsin's bow season was the fly. By your own admission, a smaller state org like the WBH is defenseless against big money and greed from the likes of powerful interest groups like the NRA. Which brings me right back to my original point. This isnt the 1970's or 80's anymore. Groups like the WBH are for fellowship and thats about it. They carry no political clout. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to get 10 bow hunters in Wisconsin to agree on anything, much less 250,000. As mentioned by Antler Whore, what exactly are we defending anymore? It seems the sole goal with everything is to increase hunter numbers no matter the consequence. The more seasons and weapons we can come up with the better.
They have poachers in the WBH????Is that true?
"Compounds enabled the transition to and acceptance of modern crossbows, no sense fighting it. "
It is sad but there is no sense fighting it. When public votes show people are more against them in every vote and then the Legislature votes 96-0 for them followed by a Governor for the Sportsmen ignoring the Sportsmen signing it into law, the deal is done. The WBH had no chance. SCI had no chance. The only chance rested in the Governor's hands and he followed the money. I still want him for POTUS :).
SCI??? Isn't that the organization that recognizes animals killed in pens??? LOL... nuff said..
Mike, WBH could use a PR person …. never get a press release from them. Many years ago, used to on occasion (especially publicizing the annual conference). Publicity comes to those who have well-written releases — or even poorly-written ones that at least have dates and contact info. If no one is now charged with that, that should change immediately. DU, WTU, RGS, NRA, NWTF, TNC and many more all keep the media informed and are rewarded with frequent mentions.
Sawtooh-
Were abouts in Iowa do you hunt? Why the interest in the Wisconsin Forum?
Just curious...
Wbh was sold out on the crossbow issue by a group with an over active lobbyist. This groups wants their politics and not sports people to make the decisions. And realize who called for the meeting of the groups, DNR and politicians to ram the xbow down our throats. These people never really were given enough press for their xbow ram job. WON did the best job of exposing them. WBH thought the lobbyist fronted group would back them in exchange for other concessions but WBH got sold out. They had a chance but when WBH went with their lessor weapon position they looked weak and that was the beginning of the end. 55 and over doesn't look so bad anymore!
The last WBH party I went to was in LaCrosse. The parties all seem to be at least 3 hours away and considering how little is given to the members (like some online voting) not apt to go until the meeting gets closer once in a while. (Online voting will provide all of the cheats a chance to practice their craft...or at least the anti-electronic registration crowd might think.) I do have an idea that a better publication might help a little. I am not a fan of an article that starts on say page 5 has a couple of paragraphs, then turn to page 35, then turn to page 50 and so on.
All that needed to happen was to follow the by laws as the founders laid down... if this were done.... It still would be the respected Bowhunting group it once was... but when you are a membership driven group.. which means every member has a say in the groups direction... that's how it was suppose to stay...
I know times have changed... and folks are way more busy then they once were..that makes attendance to vote on directives very tough and you end up with a few members deciding policy.. as opposed to the membership deciding policy as designed... that would mean there should be a mailing ballot that binds direction of the membership and vote results membership wide... as opposed to the 100 or less that attend the business meeting voting on stuff... If you do not involve the entire membership in direction.... you will loose them and the WBH has..Membership driven means the entire membership.... not just 1.7% of the membership setting policy...that's their biggest problem..
WBH is a great organization. Been a member since 74. Should of got a life membership. AW why don't you go to the convention business meeting and give some of your words of wisdom there.
BM... those days are behind me ... nothing can change unless big steps are taken to do so... that would involve polling the entire membership on all directives in a binding ballot.... anything less is not membership driven .... meaning unless you can afford the time and expense to attend ... your membership means nothing... all members should be considered on every directive... that's what it once was... and unless things get back to allowing the entire membership to direct.... why bother?? There is little left to defend... what more can non bowhunters take from us???
I know longer give money to any group..as they all have personal agendas.... the last to get my membership was the last group left that was membership driven.. and that was the WBH....
If it ever becomes membership driven again... I may consider renewal..
AH,
Sitting on a forum complaining will get you no where. You want change get involved. Attend the conference and vote people in that represent what you seek.
Mark my words. There is plenty to take away and WI. is well in its way to a general deer season and tag/s. Just choose your weapon. How many other states have such a generous bow specific seasons as WI? There is plenty to loose!
Antler whore you have some good points. The bylaw redo was done by a very small group of people with almost no outside input. It should have been run by the membership to change parts before it was voted on as a whole. I suggested that the mail in ballot be retained from the old bylaws but that did not happen. Ironic though that mail in ballots were allowed to vote for the bylaw redo which then outlawed them. If my memory is correct now any bylaw changes first have to be approved by the board before the membership can vote on them. That really reduces the membership feel of the organization.
Agree with Antler W.
MF... I have hunted Wisconsin for 40 years, lived there for "part" of my life. Your question however is not material to the discussion and serves little purpose.
AW is flat out wrong thinking that online or mail in votes or polls can run the org. Its has never been that way and it cannot be (no org does that). Imagine the chaos if in January the board told the members that one member wants the org to take an anti baiting stance and that they members have to vote on a stance on a anti baiting stance. Then in March another member insists that WBH take a pro baiting stance so the org has to send out another mail ballot and then in June another member insists WBH take a neutral baiting stance so the org. has to go through it again. That’s why the annual meeting is the only time and place for member input. AW read the bylaws and educate yourself on how the org works and how it is run (by org law and WI state law for a 501 c 3) The bylaws state that the day to day operations and running of the org is conducted by the elected board (not the members) The day for the members to provide direction is the annual members meeting. If what a member wants, impacts the bylaws or articles of incorporation, written notice via the magazine (or mailing) has to happen months in advance of the annual meeting.
Buck, you are right on, unfortunately you are wasting your time with him. It seems he needs volunteers to work just so he can give his input, without working himself.
Do you know what it costs to send ballots out to all members and then have a couple hundred come back. Most orgs don't have any extra money to do this unless we raise dues to cover it. Most don't want to spend the $25 now. What's left to defend? You your bowhunting season is not going to come under attack? You take a lot of things for granted. Try Maine's bear hunting season and others. I remember a past director with the same last name as you AW and his agenda was the same to get rid of baiting. Didnt get what he wanted so he quit. Boy, all I wanted to do was let people know about the upcoming convention and invite them to come. But look where it went, SOUTH. Kind of wish i didn't post anything. Would of have been less grumbling. Have a nice day.
Actually, a bowhunting org should be promoting archery and bowhunting. They should have a neutral stance on baiting.
sawtooth the WBH has a neutral stance on baiting. WBH already promotes archery and bowhunting.
Too bad the WTA chose to oppose baiting, a divisive move on their part. They should promote traditional archery, period.
Could the voting AW mentions be done online? It does seem to me that an organization should want the input of as many members as possible. Just asking...
How is a membership driven org driven by a membership that has zero say in direction...zero...
There is a magazine mailed ... there could be a ballot in that mailing costing a whopping total of zero dollars... voters pay for their own envelope and stamp...that allows all members the opportunity to be part of the steering commitees. ... not just the folks who join on the day of a convention to sway a direction on a vote ...what should happen at the business meeting is voting on issues that should be sent to a membership vote...let the membership decide...as far as the legendary baiting vote on the floor.... I agree... that shod not have happened like that.... Why that was a issue was the DNR was looking for the support of the only membership driven group of sportsmen available to support them in the effort of the push for a statewide ban of bait/feed for deer.... by being neutral as suggested waters down the integrity of the WBH... by taking a stand and supporting the DNR when they reached out asking for that support.... may have been a chance to put them in a position to listen to that same membership when the xgun issue came... but because they did not get support... what possible reason would the DNR have to feel obligated to the Bowhunters .. in fact.... having showed that support for them I their efforts could have easily been used at the time for a 10 year or maybe a 20 year moratorium on allowing xguns at all..... They were pretty disappointed not getting g the support on the ban from the WBH... that was the day the xguns just took off...like it or not...
Sure would have been nice to build a alliance with the DNR and support them in their efforts in exchange for their support to keep bow season for bow hunters and xguns for the 65 and disabled....
.Dumb...Da..Dumb ...Dumb
AW, save your breath/typing. They won't go to online/mail in voting because it's not the way a few in the org want to do it. Also because it's harder to influence the outcome when not in person. They don't even want to address the problem of getting their name out there to more bowhunters. Do you really think they would address anything else?
"That’s why the annual meeting is the only time and place for member input. AW read the bylaws and educate yourself on how the org works and how it is run (by org law and WI state law for a 501 c 3) The bylaws state that the day to day operations and running of the org is conducted by the elected board (not the members)"
For those who missed it the first time.
As I recall... on the faith full bait day... the same issue was voted on not once... but 3 times... the first 2 times the floor voted sensibly to support the DNR... then after hours of bickering and a huge line of testimony... when half the room said enough already.. a 3rd vote was allowed ...LOL... and that vote led to loosing the support from the DNR for the xgun to be included in our bow season.... the very thing the WBH was designed to defend against was tossed aside for not supporting the DNR.... LOL... good call
I have this sneaking suspicion that a recently booted person is going to join again soon seeing how this thread has gone. I'm actually surprised he isn't here already.
OK, back to the convention talk.
"...and that vote led to loosing the support from the DNR for the xgun to be included in our bow season..."
The involvement of the DNR through the entire crossbow issue was for information only. They never took a position. This action was done by the legislature, not the department.
Looks like some have bad blood and issues in the past while WBH members and an axe to grind reading this.
I would like to ask Sawtooth what he meant on his thread about WTA. I joined them because they took a stance against baiting and is something I believe in.
Sawtooth, A bowhunting org. is wrong for taking a stand on issues involving fair chase and ethics within the sport? Now thats genius....
What is their opinion on bait plots?
What is their opinion on baiting bear?
What is their opinion on hounds and bear? What about hounds and coyote? What about hounds and Hares? What about trapping? What about leg holds? What about trail cams? What about night lights for predators?
What about high fences? What about hunting the same day you fly? What about metal risers? What about scope sights?
Almost forgot, what about 100% let off compounds? What about 98% let off? What about crossbows? What about crossbows at 600 feet per second? What about compounds at 450 feet per second?
What about bowhunting???????
Happygolucky
......He's baaack!!!
Didn't take him long.
Now he's moved to Iowa under another assumed name!
Direct from there website. Wisconsin Bowhunters: Preserving the History, Protecting the Future. They have a list of issues from the past that they were involved in which helped formulate the current season we have today. If you read through the "accomplishments" it becomes readily apparent that right from the beginning they were interested in helping set hunting policy. They did that by forming opinions about various subjects "related to bowhunting" and then pursuing those opinions until they became adopted into the hunting regulations.
Not working with the DNR on the baiting issue when they specifically singled out the WBH as it was a membership driven group..and counted on our support.... this was a mistake.... regardless what the issue was.. when a state agencies stocks their neck out asking for a hunting groups support on any issue... and is turned down...bad things will come to that groups interests...
What should have been done is partnering with the DNR regardless of issue... they are and would be a huge Allie in future battles... like the xgun issue.... no way we get full inclusion unless it the DNR is 100% on board with it... yes the legislature did it's part... but nobody from the DNR was against the xgun... geee... talk about a axe to grind .... partnering with them when they asked for our support would have created a working relationship. .. that carries a lot more water when a adverse issue came to lite...
But..... as ussual..in WI.. hunter greed supercedes good common sense... and we are where we are at because of it...
Have fun at the convention . Plenty of good parking
Don't worry we will have fun at the convention!!!! I truly believe you don't have a clue how by laws work and how clubs are run.
AW your inventing a bogus argument manufacturing a scenario where the DNR and WBH would enter into a secret quid pro quo arrangement (that’s illegal) where WBH scratches the DNR’s back on baiting in exchange for the DNR not supporting crossbows when the DNR was not even a player in the crossbow issue. Crossbows came about because of a couple lawmakers and the NRA. The DNR didn’t even have a seat at the table but AW doesn’t care what the truth is, he just manufactures a false reality and spouts off like he has a clue.
AW how did you change things when you were on the WBH board and why did you leave?
In my opinion both the WBH and the WTA should look with pride on their organizations. They all in all serve the Wisconsin bowhunters well.....
If you want things better, have better ideas, or suggestions, get involved, and join them......
Both organizations must have leadership, that will listen to other points of views, that is why its called leadership,,,,,,
Wisconsin is served well by both.......
So many forget how much came about in the early years of setting our seasons, because of the WBH
WTA got set up, by those who had another vision, those that started to question, technology, and its future affects on the seasons,,, those who chose another route in the endless journey, of bowhunting.....
each in their own are a good fit,,,, of course their are some differences, but we should all remember that our common goal, is to preserve what we have,,,,,,
issues will change, some battles will be won, others lost, but both groups serve us well.......
I agree with Razor as well.
Very thoughtful and good points you made razor.
Leadership is the key . People are so busy and being jerked in so many directions . Back in the 60's and 70's the pace was slower and hunters had more fire in their bellys .
I was asked if I could go to Madison as a show of strength to allow archers to use tree stands . I went , took off work with no pay , I was shocked and so proud when I saw 100's of Bowhunters on the steps at the capitol . We did it again for a longer season , and again for a longer season and the crowds got larger each time .
Then the gun hunters attacked us at the spring hearings , They were ready , they had one person after another talk about Deer walking all around with arrows sticking in them . They wanted everything the WBH fought to get us . It was bloody . Fights in the hall , parking lot , and in the saloon down the street .
I got my butt kicked by a huge farmer that was telling Bamby stories allnight . After about 6 Beers we had a little " talk " in the parking lot .
Proud to be an Archer . PS , that was a long time ago , I often wonder who was the person making all those called to rally the Archers .
I remember when they had some rifle guys on TV back in the 70's complaining about the archers. Was on PBS or something. Couple of old dudes (old like 70's LOL) and they were talking about wounded deer and arrows sticking out of them. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I have been bowhunting for well over 30 years now and have NEVER seen a deer (out hunting, walking or whatever) with an arrow sticking out of them.....unless it was at the end of a blood trail.
"I have been bowhunting for well over 30 years now and have NEVER seen a deer (out hunting, walking or whatever) with an arrow sticking out of them.....unless it was at the end of a blood trail. "
TheLama, I killed this buck in 2013 when it came in with the arrow you see planted in its neck. I did everything I could to put another arrow in it and almost took a frontal on it. I only shot this buck due to the arrow in its neck. It looked bad and was drooling. We found that the original shooter was a lady (you can see the small Easton arrow) who hit it on October 2. I killed it on October 28. We returned the arrow to the lady after I needed a knife to cut it out. So, it happens.
Ruger, that is EXACTLY the kind of fire that I felt was lacking from WBH. It's all PC as to not hurt someones feelings now days.
If membership is growing, the validity of the organization is sound and/or the leadership is excellent. If membership is declining, the hunter interest in the organization is no longer as valid, or the leadership is incompetent. Is membership growing over the past decade?
I think you can have good leadership, and still the numbers do not grow....... these are different times, hard to get the young people involved...... they have had it too good for a long time, yet do not know those who worked hard, to get where we are at........
I have no idea what the answer is, I really do not, we have so many adults who want to take their ball and go home, hard to phantom, getting younger folks involved......
my hat is off to the board of WBH,
I only have one criticism of the WBH, and if you are listening, listen up. When you work your booth at a show, do not sit and talk to each other. Pay attention to those who are at your booth, and do what you are there for, trying to sign up new members
2015…… I myself would like to thank all the directors for volunteering their time to make this convention another success. 2016…. Wisconsin Dells…. can't wait !!!!!
Why wasn't the WBH at the Milwaukee Sports Show? Seems like it would be a great place to generate membership.
You have to remember these are all volunteers with families.
Milwaukee sports show has a different attendee now than 20 years ago. We had a booth there for a long time but the membership sales dwindled to a point it was not worth the cost and effort.
After 55 years of of throwing arrows heres my opinion . The WBH catered to the true Archers for a long time . The numbers of true archers continues to drop every year . Hense the membership drop .
Many of you feel the WBH is not doing their job in recruitment . Not true , their doing a very good job . What they have is about 4,000 Archers and a few 1,000 bowhunters as members . Thats all they will every have as it stands .
Its clear to me why the other 200,000 hunters that buy archery and crossbow tags will never join the WBH and this is why .
The majority of that group shoots compounds and crossbows for the following reasons . to spend a few more weeks in the woods . To take the family out when the weather is nice . Because their buddys do it . And most importantly , To hunt the RUT .
90 % buy their gear from want ads , craigslist , big box stores and so on . Less than 10 % from pro shops . 2 % belong to local clubs . 75 % take their weapons out about the second week in Oct and put them back in the closet just before gun season .
How do I know this . I was in the middle of a huge survey I was conducting for the WBH when A bad economy and some family issues forced me the leave the board .
Those 200,000 lost hunters out there that need a new org that has appeal to them . Stuff these kids would want to wear and show the rest of the hunters how cool they are . Tees , hats, pins , patches , a cool mag with a Zombie deer target [example ] . 10,000 members could be had .
You have to remember its not cheap for a booth at shows.
Glunker, Ruger, Buckmaster and Razor have been saying it well.
Glenn you are right that there is a group of fringe Bowhunters that could be corralled into some type of membership. How that would play out is not obvious to me. If you want to discuss the possibility of bringing the WBH numbers back up to their historical peak of 12000+ there maybe some large hurdles to over come. My thinking for the peak numbers was partly due to booming local archery club membership. That is something I do not think we will see again unless WBH does something out of the box likerestructuring to have local chapters. I am not calling for that but theorizing what has changed and how things are different.
There should be local chapters Glunker... that was a idea years ago...and never materialized...folks need something for their time and membership dollar... local chapters could have banquets that draw funds and memberships... Like Whitetails... but even better....I believe that is part of the big picture issue for the WBH... Networking and developing a state chapter system may be the ticket.
AW, Exactly. Local chapters would be an excellent idea. I suspect the reason they never happened was that the old guard is worried about losing control/power. This is also why I think they resist any real recruiting efforts. Wouldn't want new, younger blood to come in with fresh ideas.
You could start local Chapters and have the existing group be the State Division. We already have the State divided up into 10 regions and were supposed to have county representatives who were to go out to the archery clubs in their counties.
Nothing ever happened with this.
Any other ideas that might fly?
AW it sounds good on paper but…. where do you get the volunteers to do the work and the money to do meetings and banquets? Aw how did you change things when you were on the board and why did you leave???
Good point Todd , I was a member of the Ojibawa club and the club was a 101 % membership in the WBH . All members and the club itself had to belong to the WBH .
What a great time , fun shoots , matches with other clubs ,pig roasts , cattle tanks filled with shorty PBR's , 100;s of tents so you could crawl back to your tent at 2 AM instead of driving . Those were the days .
You younger hunters really should join a club at least once . Most are family friendly .
That's it Ruger... who wants to drive to the other side of the state spend a bunch of jing on gas and a hotel room just to vote and belong...10 sectors should have 10 banquets...you can still have the convention...just have the local banquets in the summer during the shooting season.. so the host town can set up a shoot...
Actually.. I don't see another effort that will change the WBH for the better ..This is prolly it..
If you could get each of the 10 to host a regional qualifier shoot .. then qualifiers go to a sectional shoot say..The Necedah shoot.. and top 10 advance to a championship flip up style shoot at the convention..standardize the gear so everyone shoots in the Bowhunter class.. so you have only 1 champion..
Who wouldn't want to watch that while sipping a cold one??
How do you get volunteers?? You take applications for host clubs to host these 10 shoots.. Our club hosted a bunch of big shoots not long ago... it takes club members to set it all up..and the club makes some jing for hosting ...it's a win ..win...and it promotes the WBH as a bonus... Shoot fees include a WBH membership... say 15 bucks a round for Members.. 10 for the host club.. 5 to the WBH..... The WBH needs to further network with local clubs And the shoots and banquets are the way to do that.
OK I've read this and this is my views as a non member. I'm not trying to rip on anyone or any club I'm just speaking what I feel and what I believe the vast majority of bowhunters think.
First off I would bet that more bowhunters don't know that WBH even exists! Without them knowing it's hard to get them to join.
What has it done for bowhunting recently and what it it planning on doing in the future? Yes we know that it did great things in the past and that without them there wouldn't be a archery season (yada yada yada) at least according to them. To most people that's ancient history, what have they done in recent history? What is their agenda for future laws, seasons, etc.?
What do I get out of joining? I know this sounds selfish but that's the way many people look at it. If I belong to a local archery club I get a place to shoot and hang out with other archers. If I join the NRA I get a magazine and some so-so insurance. What do I get for joining WBH? A pin and an invitation to a yearly meeting? Sorry that's not good enough for most people.
I'm an archer and have been since I was a kid and I can't think of one thing WBH has done since I've been involved in the sport that really helped me. They might have done stuff to help but I don't know about it and I'm a lot more into the sport than most other bowhunters, if I don't know Joe October doesn't either. On this site all I hear about is bickering and in fighting and it doesn't sound like a group I would enjoy being around.
AW that sounds great but where are you going to get people to do it? As you know in each club there are 5 or 6 people that actually do 90% of the work and they're already worked out! To run a shoot like you say and have 100 shooters (which is a lot of shooters nowadays) means the club gets $1000 and WBH get $500 plus the club gets the bar. And for that you have a lot of people in the club working for a week when you figure in all the set up and tear down so in essence they're working for $.50 per hour! If my club wanted to do that I'd just give them $100 and not have to mess with it.
The banquet thing is way over done. Every club has one now and people are getting sick of them. The only thing that draws people to them are good prizes which cost a lot of money. Giving away a $300 Remington 870 isn't going to attract anyone. Ad to that the difficulties that the state and IRS is giving clubs that run banquets and it's a none starter.
Next idea, let's do a big raffle and give out a bunch of prizes. Ya that's over done already also. Clubs can't sell the tickets they have now because every club has a big raffle. And again new state laws make that difficult, you can't send raffle tickets through the mail anymore even!
Zinger ….. HOME RUN !!!!!
Gone from a five-day, buck-only season in two counties of the state in 1934, to our 85-day bowhunting for either sex deer
*1942: the first bear season with bow and arrow
*1943: the first open season for does or bucks
*1951: Repealed a 1945 law that required a bowhunter to have 50% of his clothing in RED
*1952: Repealed a 1947 law against having a strung bow in an automobile; replaced with the law allowing a strung bow within a case to be carried in an automobile
*1953: December bow season was established
*1965: Separate bow & arrow license implemented
*1971: Portable Tree Stand use legalized in Wisconsin
*1989: Obtained an additional 15 minutes hunting time
*1989: No longer had to case bows until returned to vehicle
* 1990: Bonus tags available to bowhunters in deer management units substantially over goal and under-subscribed by gun hunters choice applicants; Hunters Choice tags can be filled during archery season.
*1991-1994: Supported Professor Ray Anderson's Black Bear study, which compared the health of a hunted vs. non-hunted bear population; This data will be valuable in defending bear hunting against unwarranted attacks.
*1994: Legal to bowfish from a boat with motor running; If not bowfishing, bow must be in a case. *Since 1995: Sponsored participants in the Becoming an Outdoors Woman program
*1997: Bowhunters able to hunt up until the Friday before the gun season in "T" zones (4 extra days)
* 2005: Worked with other conservation groups to get a two year stay from Oct. T-zone hunts
* 2007: Part of the CWD advisory board to make recommendations for future CWD management
* 2008: Established an online user forum for the involvement and enjoyment of WBH members
*2009: Part of both the DMU goal setting board and the EAB alternative board
*2009: Provided testimony as part of the legislative process on deer management, which led to a revision of season structure including suspending EAB
*2010: Provided testimony as part of the legislative process on overwinter goals, which led to the legislature rejecting the proposed goal in favor of a goal increase
* 2010-present: Defends the sport of Bowhunting to improve the situation and conditions for Bowhunters statewide
*Prior to and continuing past 2010: Monitors all threats to Bowhunting that may come as a result of legislation, spring hearings, outside interests, etc. Gone from a five-day, buck-only season in two counties of the state in 1934, to our 85-day bowhunting for either sex deer
*1942: the first bear season with bow and arrow
*1943: the first open season for does or bucks
*1951: Repealed a 1945 law that required a bowhunter to have 50% of his clothing in RED
*1952: Repealed a 1947 law against having a strung bow in an automobile; replaced with the law allowing a strung bow within a case to be carried in an automobile
*1953: December bow season was established
*1965: Separate bow & arrow license implemented
*1971: Portable Tree Stand use legalized in Wisconsin
*1989: Obtained an additional 15 minutes hunting time
*1989: No longer had to case bows until returned to vehicle
* 1990: Bonus tags available to bowhunters in deer management units substantially over goal and under-subscribed by gun hunters choice applicants; Hunters Choice tags can be filled during archery season.
*1991-1994: Supported Professor Ray Anderson's Black Bear study, which compared the health of a hunted vs. non-hunted bear population; This data will be valuable in defending bear hunting against unwarranted attacks.
*1994: Legal to bowfish from a boat with motor running; If not bowfishing, bow must be in a case. *Since 1995: Sponsored participants in the Becoming an Outdoors Woman program
*1997: Bowhunters able to hunt up until the Friday before the gun season in "T" zones (4 extra days)
* 2005: Worked with other conservation groups to get a two year stay from Oct. T-zone hunts
* 2007: Part of the CWD advisory board to make recommendations for future CWD management
* 2008: Established an online user forum for the involvement and enjoyment of WBH members
*2009: Part of both the DMU goal setting board and the EAB alternative board
*2009: Provided testimony as part of the legislative process on deer management, which led to a revision of season structure including suspending EAB
*2010: Provided testimony as part of the legislative process on overwinter goals, which led to the legislature rejecting the proposed goal in favor of a goal increase
* 2010-present: Defends the sport of Bowhunting to improve the situation and conditions for Bowhunters statewide
*Prior to and continuing past 2010: Monitors all threats to Bowhunting that may come as a result of legislation, spring hearings, outside interests, etc.
This is one reason why I belong to the WBH.
I see when it's brought up that the majority of bowhunters in the state have never heard of WBH. The pro WBH guys have no response. I brought it up early in this thread, Zinger brought it up also. It's a pretty major issue when the majority of your supposed target recruitment group have no clue who you are.
Looks like a lot of reasons. Of course some are content to sit idly by while others do for them. Maybe an annual dues refund, a limo to take them to the convention and a dozen arrows would be enough for them?
Isn't that the truth with this new generation.,
Yes... those are a lot of good reasons...big accomplishments?? There are a few on there... but i agree with the guys who posted that most of your states bowhunters have zero clue about the WBH... nada.... and unless initiatives are changed... no one will..
That's why some sort of state shoot system gets to the clubs where the new shooters are... I get the gun banquet thing is over done.. who says you need to give guns???I have a vault full of them too and don't need another...
but something needs to be done to reach the new hunters.. and the club level is where that's at...
and setting up a great shoot don't take that much if you got workers instead of talkers. .. did many of them.. if a club don't want to do it.. don't apply for the shoot then..... pretty simple...
or.. just keep doing what your doing and hope the membership fairy does her job.... are you getting why folks leave the Board yet???
Was a 25-year member at one time, told by some here wasn't needed and didn't like what I was hearing so never renewed. Offered an idea to the leadership, a break on a lifetime membership based on how many years you had paid dues. They didn't like the idea. Fair enough.
How are you going to get enough people involved to run 10 sub clubs of the WBH when the mother ship can't fill all its positions? I was a member of Poynette Bowhunters for a quite a few years. We were a 101% club also. Leagues were always full and fun.
How many of those items listed would have happened even without WBH? To me it sounds like they're trying to take credit for anything good that happened for bowhunters. Like seperate bow and arrow licsense, I'm pretty sure that would have happened with or without WBH just like it did in all the other states.
It all happens by magic. Brought to you by the "good rule" people.
AW you did nothing and now that you are off the board you demand the board do things you were not willing to do yourself. Its pretty easy to sit in your mom’s basement on a computer and make demands of others. AW you even has the balls to post “setting up a great shoot don't take that much if you got workers instead of talkers” A “talker” is all you are, even when you were on the board, you never lifted a finger. Now from behind a keyboard you have all the answers and have the balls to say it wont take much to get it done. You were on the board and did nothing and now that your off the board you demand the board do things you were not willing to do himself.
“
Setting up 10 regional shoots could have been don in the time you spent telling me you cant do it Buckmaster....and in the amount of time you spent telling us it cant happen you could have secured sponsorships for finacial support as well... you asked why folks leave that do nothing board??? Cause of clowns like you who always have a reason not to take initiatives to improve...
good luck with the do nothing attitude and expect folks to flock to your org...
C YA... just like your membership...
AW answer the question. How did you change things when you were on the board and why did you leave??
AW, I did not say I couldn’t set up 10 shoots. I asked what have you done and why you didn’t do exactly what you are preaching when you were on the board. I didn’t say I couldn’t secure the funding (even though I cant since I am not on the board) but AW you were on the board and didn’t do squat to create shoots or 10 banquets. If anybody is a clown its you AW for telling others to do what you failed to do when you were on the board before you tucked tail and ran because there was work to do.
The Internet, along with sites like this, are a great platform for people to complain from. No one will ever stop all the complaining, and while it is fun to expose those folks, the bottom line is they have little to no impact on what really happens as they are talkers and not doers.
buckmaster69, speaking of answering questions why don't you answer the following one that you keep avoiding;
"How many of those items listed would have happened even without WBH? "
I'm guessing at least half of the items on that list shouldn't even be there, talk about grasping for straws.
On another note buckmaster69, many of your posts come across as excited angry ramblings, that does not help attract members to the WBH. Much like having known law violators on the board or even as members, many of us prefer not to be associated or support groups that condone that type of behavior. Some day you guys might get it and quit chasing potential members away, but in the meantime...keep up the good work. lol
Violators? There was more than one? Just because a bunch of you have a hard on for one person, doesn't make the rest violators. I wish most people on here would at least give their full name so we could check out to see if you are perfect and pure. Quit hiding behind a screen
I can understand if you think BM69 comes across that way to you. He feels like I do. I hope others reading this post look past the clouded opinion of several people on here. Give the WBH a try, or at least try to find out what they have to offer. Just don't take the words of others without trying out for your self.
We don't condone hunting violators, so get off that kick.
Along with WBH a lot of archery clubs and outdoor related clubs are slowly losing a few member at a time. It is just the society we live in today.
And for what does the WBH do for me? Working towards getting wolves unlisted, working with the dnr on bear, turkey and deer input. keeping archery and crossbow harvest numbers separate. Getting nasp equipment into schools to hopefully get new kids interested in archery and eventually bowhunting. Learn to bowhunt programs for bear and deer. Keeping an eye on the HSUS and other anti hunter orgs. that want to end our bowhunting seasons. I could name a few more but some wouldn't believe me anyways. Enjoy your upcoming bowhunting season.
The WBH was formed to Protect, Preserve and Promote bowhunting. All may not agree with each other, but we have to stick together or "WE" may not have a bowhunting season in the future.
I just hope once again, that people reading all the bad opinions from a few, will at least try to find out about the GOOD the WBH does on their "OWN".
HunterR …. I myself don't think any of this stuff would have got done without the WBH. Just to let you know I'm not angry at all. I just don't like liars. Law violators ???? The only one I know is Ted N.….. oh he is in the NRA.
Bman, all that stuff is well and good. But if the majority of bowhunters have no idea who WBH are, or what they do, it's all for naught.
"Much like having known law violators on the board or even as members, many of us prefer not to be associated or support groups that condone that type of behavior."
Our system is designed to punish law-breakers. Once they have paid their debt to society, they are deemed free and clear by the law. That anyone would pretend to shy away from an organization for a reason like that is simply petty and ridiculous.
HuntrR, do you think that programs, laws, seasons, etc, rise up from dust and create themselves? They happen due to the efforts of concerned people and organizations.
In defense of BM69, I sometimes feel his frustration. People will take cheap shots from the comfort of their homes but what effort have they made to really make a difference? I mean real effort, like travelling to meetings, to testify at hearings, to staff membership booths, to help set up an outing? How much of their own money and time do the armchair know-it-alls donate?
Great. Berry does more for WBH, then 99% of the people on this site. He doesn't hide behind a handle, what you see is what you get. A very hard working board member.
Stan Godfrey,,,, I agree.
we may not all agree, but we must stand together, and at the deer classic, I will renew my membership, that I let lapse last year,,,,,,
Konk, that's exactly what I'm talking about. They bitch and whine that only a few do things. Yet that's EXACTLY how they want it.
Bingo Rut....spot on... It's my way or the Highway... and most are just choosing the Highway..
Sad..
Having that lame pro boards page was not bring in any membership...
State wide shoots would...sure it's work... but how do they plan to reach new members sitting in a meeting room...??
Sitting on hands and spending all your time and little capital defending the present set up does squat... Either you want memberships or you dont... and if the group has no membership.. it's political clout is gone... thus any defense of any issue is also gone...and that's why you got the Xgun...no other reason
Do as you please... but don't expect folks to sign up from that list...it's not gonna happen
We now have the crossgun because of the lobbying efforts of the NRA and crossgun manufacturers. If every bowhunter in WI. was a member of the WBH, they still couldn't match the $ power of the NRA. And, your beloved "Friend of Sportsman" signed it! That's who gets the blame for the crossgun in WI. I give the WBH credit for keeping it out of this state as long as they did !
The NRA stands up for hunters and gun rights. It really doesn't pick and chose what it stands up for as long as it's for one of those two things. Crossbows got more people hunting, no one can argue that point. The NRA has done a whole lot more to protect hunters rights than WBH has and when (not if) the next fight against hunters comes up in Wisconsin the NRA will be there to fight with us regardless if they're coming after guns or archery.
NRA can suck rocks !!! Anything for a buck.
"NRA can suck rocks !!! Anything for a buck."
It's too bad the WBH don't have that kind of fire/passion about recruiting new members and getting their name out there.
Been out trying to fill the freezer full of Perch the last 3 weeks so I read the entire thread twice .
Amazing how many hunters out there know how to fix all of the WBH'S issues but make no attemp to get involved .
Its all about sales and marketing . It would be very easy to increase membership by 2 or 3 thousand members in 1 year .
The hard part or easy part dpoending on how you look at it would be creating a new ORG to go after those 200,000 3 to 4 week per year " Bowhunters " .
We have some new recruitment tools now that are not being used very well . The internet .
Does anyone know how much the state charges per name on the internet hunters list ?
The NRA could care less about hunters. And they can't stand bowhunters. They care only about 2nd amendment rights. Which is great. But, that has nothing to do with lobbying for crossbows in WI's bow season. Walker should have been smart enough to see through that. No surprise to me he didn't.
Really the NRA doesn't care about hunters? I wonder how many of their members are hunters? Im guessing north of 90%.
This thread was originally about the WBH convention. I attended the Sunday session of one about five years ago in Appleton. I had hoped to meet a few of the people from Bowsite and maybe become part of a organization that was making a difference.
The ladies that registered me were friendly. When I got inside I introduced myself to Serb. Remember him? You would have thought I was his long-lost brother. He was that friendly. Also, Wright, the President, was friendly. I had very brief conversation with a couple other bowsiters. I had wanted to introduce myself to Ruger1022, but I don't think he was there that year. No one else gave me the time of day. Everywhere I went there were little cliques of guys. Not a one did a thing to make an "outsider" feel like he wanted to belong.
My intention was not to make friends. I have friends. I wasn't looking for a place to hunt. I have a place to hunt. I did not leave with my feelings hurt. I left feeling like I did not belong there and that any contribution I would make would be meaningless.
There is no doubt that WBH has done a lot for bow hunting, and still does. But if you want more participation you need to give people a reason to belong.
PB said it well,you have to make folks welcome,or the result is decreasing membership.
Well said PB. WBH, is an ole boys club that likes to pat themselves on the back for past accomplishments.
And when their state liaison gets nabbed for poaching, the club prez makes no statement and takes no action. Swept under the rug as if it never happened. He's even allowed to stay in the club even after such an embarrassment to the club. Definitely an "old boys" club that is no longer relevant.
POACHING The illegal shooting, trapping, or taking of game or fish from private or public property.
While Ron did break the law for illegal baiting/feeding. I didn't see anywhere that he killed an animal while doing the above. So under the legal definition above he is/was not guilty of poaching.
He paid the fine and had to deal with the embarrassment. It's time to move on. I hate speaking up for Ron but this school yard BS is getting old.
You don't like WBH fine, but to sit here on Bowsite and bash it and the membership is absurd. PB went to one Convention not to meet new people just some from here. Met and talked with the president feels he was slighted because the membership didn't notice him Even though he says different or why even mention it.
Funny most of the guys that tear at WBH are the same one that ate away at the CC. Must be hell being on the out side looking in and so negative all the time. Now the CC and NRB are virtually irrelevant and any public input is a thing if the past we now have legislature making the rules. Good luck with that!!
Drop time, maybe it is time to forgive and forget but your remembrance conflicts with the facts.
Rut is right on. The ongoing attacks on the WBH and Ron are well worn out. Time for the giggly girls to turn up the poundage on their bows and grow up. Of course it is only a few of the irrelevant ones who do nothing but whine on the Internet.
Glunkler, what facts are you questioning?
I do nothing.. Including not writing the membership check..
First a org must have integrity ..to belong means you desire so.e level of respect.. to earn that respect you in turn hold your self.. membership and leadership to higher standards and set examples..
One of the best Leaders WBH ever had Wade Jeske was lost over these same fiasco issues... Wade dedicated a long time to the group.. had good ideas...had lead by example...but road blocks and leniency and loss of integrity costs orgs good folks.. this is why the Ronny crap is pertinant...like it or not the WBH was infiltrated by leaders from other groups with other interests...it lead to problema.. division ... and infighting.. when firm leadership from the top was required.. it did not come..Nice guys are nice guys... Leaders sometimes need to be firm and not allow divisive issues to fester.. and pretty much taking on any rep from any place with no background on their beliefs and with no Intension or capabilities of reigning problems that created because there are so many vacancies for reps your willing to take pretty much anyone who steps up.. rather to become a rep.. you first should have to be vvetted... are you a Bowhunter first?? Are you against Xguns??? What have you done in other orgs.??? Etc.. etc...that is not the case to become a rep.... anyone with their hand in the air can be a rep...and when a co traversal period with issues like baiting and the xgun came to light.. the WBH was not in position to take a stand even with membership direction...that lack of preparedness is prolly what cost the most memebers..
We all know baiting is near a 50/50 debate tipping slightly towards a state wide ban in every survey or vote...so the WBH played defense.. wanting to protect its existing dwindling membership by taking no stand... had the sided with the DNR..the would have a platform to sell to new members who would want to be involved with a stand up org...now you have no stance.. that means zero. . And zero reason for folks to join....plus the clout gained by working with the DNR who asked for our help ...and was turned down ...our help would have gained their help in stopping the xgun invasion.. you can argue they had nothing to do with it.. but after talking with their embarrassed Randy Stark after he reached out to us and got nothing... he wasn't very happy with the response from the WBH...and no when the chief is pissed..it can't be good...
These are all leadership issues..nothing more.. take a stand.... so you stand for something...and membership will return...or...do nothing..simple choices
The issue for me with old RC isn't his poaching (but he most certainly did kill an illegal deer on an illegal pile)
It was the way he treats people. His 'take no prisoners' style of communication. His joy in being a gigantic DB. His deceptive way of getting things done. His failure to take responsibilty. His superiority complex. His hypocrisy.
What he did and the way he acted was approved by the weak board of WBH. MANY ON THIS SITE ENCOURAGED IT!!! Leghumpers.
The damage that man did to the WBH cannot be measured and will take years to 'fix'......if it's even possible.
I can't re-join an organization which supported that mindset. And it's a damn shame!!!
My $.02
Poor leadership is the demise of any business or organization. I think the WBH should merge with the WTA and promote stickbow archery, as archery was intended to be. Neither should have entered the baiting issue, it is NOT relevant to bowhunting promotion and simply divides the members. Baiting is not about should we stickbow hunt, but how one chooses to stickbow hunt. That should be a personal opinion and decision, not one an organization should cram down it's members throat as that divides members. There are times in negotiation where no decision, or simple inactivity, becomes a positive. Unfortunately, some use these organizations to further PERSONAL agendas, that causes division and failure.
Ronny did kill a deer over an illegal bait pile. That = poaching.
His scenario is also 100% pertinent to the discussion. He was the STATE LIAISON at the time. A VERY important role and one where he was basically representing the WBH and all bow hunters. The WBH did not even acknowleddge the situation at hand. Mike Brust ignored it completely. He ignored all correspondence and never once issued a statement on it. Action should have been performed against Ron by WBH but they swept it under the table because he was one of the good old boys. This is all fact and all pertinent whether you want to agree or not. If this is bashing, then it is deserved. The whole Ronny situation speaks to what the current WBH is today like it or not - a good old boys club. Any other organization issues a statement and boots the member.
Tracker66 - you are spot on. The same leghumpers are those who worship people like Kroll and politicians and can't see facts before their own eyes. Those people lack a mind of their own and refer to others as internet whiners when others opine differently than they do. They sure are quick to pat themselves on the back too.
Capt. Mike, tracker66 answered your question. I hope you are not raising questions when you know the answer but are obscuring the true answer. More than once your posts have led me to that conclusion.
My opinion of what RC did is that it really wasn't that big of deal, what the big deal was is how he handled it. If he would have just said I screwed up and I'm sorry that would have been the end of it. But instead he tried blaming it on his father and saying that it was feeding not baiting. It showed the hand of a rather dis-honest person who doesn't take responsibilty for his own actions IMO.
Glunker, what questions do you hope I am not raising? You lost me there. My posts relate to issues of which I am aware of, my questions are questions of which I do not know the answers, that is what a question is, isn't it?
Whatever Ron did, he was convicted and paid whatever debt the court felt appropriate. It is over, time for the Internet whiners to grow up.
happy wrote….Any other organization issues a statement and boots the member. Really…. What about the great NRA and Ted N. How many times was Ted busted for game violations???? Isn't Ted still in the NRA? The trouble with you guys is Ron kicked your butts on this site and it bugs the hell out of you.
When did the WBH take a huge decline in membership?? When RD was representing ?? Or after ..or before.... when??
What he did to that group flapping his big blow hard pat himself on the back posts was terrible.. as a rep of a group .. first you give up your loud opinions as you represent all not just your interests... you know that going in.. yet he wasn't there to leave things alone... he was there to do exactly what he did... piss enough folks off to leave and cause division and problems.... from day one he was a problem.. yet he was allowed to be sworn in... not vetted at all.. for all anyone knew he was a anti hunter.. .. when this process to recruit reps is the norm... just wait... any strength that may ever return can easily be taken away with a another RC... but i doubt u less stands are taken on controversial hinting issues any new membership burst is on the horizon... They don't think that way..
When did the WBH take a huge decline in membership??….. When you were on the board AW!!!!!!
PB in Wi….. I was there with my wife at that convention. That was a great convention. Just my opinion but… after being there for over three days most board members are ready to get home. Remember they are volunteers that have jobs and families. PB I wish you would come to the Dells for the next convention. look me up when you are there. But … come on Saturday. After the banquet they have a great meet and greet . I know you will change your opinion.
This is not a matter of what Ron did and the fact he paid his price. Yeah, yeah, we all get that. This is a matter of how WBH handled it, er, didn’t handle it. The State Liaison violated, it became public knowledge, and he lied through his teeth about it - over and over. The WBH mantra really should be – Hunting ethics and morals are not necessary to join this good old boys club. We just want your time and money. Hunting violations will be condoned and swept under the rug regardless of your role in the club.
In today's world I'm sure the board had to wait till he was found guilty before removing him or face legal ramifications of their own. Much like a teacher with drugs or illegal activity with a minor. They are removed from the school but are on paid leave until they are found guilty.
Sadly I today's world just being accused of something even if found innocent is enough to end carreers and lives. How many commenting here have gotten a speeding ticket where you endangered the lives of those with you and around you by speeding. Just saying
I never knew the WBH existed until coming to this site. I have no clue who the director is for my area. Why not have banquets like Whitetail Unlimited does? Have meetings in multiple areas every 3 months or so? Social media?
RJN if you tell me what county you live in I will give you the name of the director and how to get hold of him. Hey happy how did the NRA handle uncle TED???
BM69, I have no idea how NRA handled Uncle Ted. This thread is about WBH and I do know how they swept a key violation under the carpet. Never a statement - no actions - pretend it never happened - condoned it. Heck, maybe they patted Ron on the back for it?
Happy you wrote" Any other organization issues a statement and boots the member". Really. I gave you a example of a game violator in the NRA who was busted more than once. He is still in the NRA. You don't know what your talking about. Happy you are either a crossbow lover that is mad the way Ron handle you guys at some meetings or your a anti baiter who did not get his way at the convention business meeting.
BM, I don't think happy is too happy with himself. He does not have the ambition to do anything more than whine like a girl about issues he has never bothered to involve himself with. For some the Internet allows otherwise mundane irrelevant folks to feel good about themselves.
It is becoming more clear, unfortunately, goodbye WBH.
Guys and gals-
We all know what happened when Ron broke the law and the way he and the WBH handled it.
The only thing that could have made it worse was making him president. Thankfully they didn't do that.
Yes, Ron has driven members away. Yes, the inaction of the board has driven away members and board members.
All org's go through their own ups and downs. I and probably a few others remember the good days and most of us know the bad days.
That being said, what can we do to make things better? We can sit at our computers and piss and moan at each other, get nothing accomplished or get out there and try and right the sinking ship.
I can only imagine what an anti-bowhunter would think if they read some of these threads. They would have a gigantic smile on their face because they already have half of their battle done. We fight among ourselves and create division among ourselves. Not a good thing.
Sure we have lost some major battles in the recent years, but in the end we all love our sport and our heritage. It's time to take a stand and do what's right for bowhunting.
How do we do that?
If you've got the answer I am willing to listen...
Define bowhunting,....... stickbow, 95% let off, crossbow ?
Baiting? Cameras? Bait plots? Youth seasons?
Unfortunately that is the world we now live in. Probably time to shorten seasons and choose your weapon, or simply have one season.
BM69 - Can't really say I made a fair assessment based on a one-day visit. As far as I can see WB is the only organization out there representing bow hunters. Maybe my expectations were a bit off. Men in general, and bow hunters in specific, tend to be a solitary lot, and might be be a bit suspicious of someone they don't know. I understand the volunteer leadership thing, balanced with work and family. I also understand the passive criticism of the majority, who don't do a thing. I need to give them another chance.
Sawtooth says - Define bowhunting,....... stickbow, 95% let off, crossbow ?
Baiting? Cameras? Bait plots? Youth seasons?
Unfortunately that is the world we now live in. Probably time to shorten seasons and choose your weapon, or simply have one season.
Who else exclusively uses the term 'baitplots'.....?
Peter Pan morphs into Dick Tracy.
I think captmike is right, some of you guys sound like a bunch of young girls whining and you certainly have short memories of how everything happened with RC. He got his violation in mid November, he contacted the board and retired in December. The board didnt have its next meeting until January. RC went to their meeting to discuss all the duties and tasks he was doing for them and how to hand them off so nothing was dropped. By then he was already off the board but he made sure to dot the I's and cross the T's before he left. There was nothing for the board to do except say thanks for your time. What sort of action did you want them to take ? He had already left the board on his own. It sounds like some of you wanted them to shame him and that's pretty classless of you. > > The small number of complainers here have never done a thing for WBH. You guys don't join or go to convention or broadhead shoot but RC is still donating his time and dollars and prizes to WBH. I was at the recent convention. RC donated prizes to help WBH raise money. He donates stuff every year. RC still attends all their functions and still runs a novelty shoot at the broadhead shoot every year. Bottom line is you are feeling guilty because you have done nothing but complain while he is working or you are holding a grudge because he kicked your butts on the internet and your still pouting. Just like little girls kicking at a horse that has been dead for 3 years.
BM69, so I don't know what the NRA did with Ted Nugent because I am not an NRA follower or a Ted Nugent follower and because of that I am a crossbow lover or an anti-baiter? Yikes, what a bizarre analysis. You and Capt Mike seem to live in a strange little fantasy world where you can't see the facts at hand and then disguise your lack of reality with additional nonsensical delusion. You both love to hide the real facts due to your blind worship of others and groups.
Bottom line, WBH swept the scenario under the carpet and Brust refused to issue a statement. A complete embarrassment to the WBH. Still is. You can go back to being Ronny's apologist now. I really hate to confuse you with facts. Did you and WBH pat Ron on the back when he violated? WBH mantra - leave your hunting ethics at the door.
"Bottom line, WBH swept the scenario under the carpet and Brust refused to issue a statement. A complete embarrassment to the WBH. Still is. You can go back to being Ronny's apologist now. I really hate to confuse you with facts. Do you violate too? Did you and WBH pat Ron on the back when he violated? WBH mantra - leave your hunting ethics at the door."
Were you present at the board meeting? Do you actually know what transpired? How about WBH's bylaws, know them?
Ron received a violation during the gun deer season. He immediately contacted and resigned. As childish it was, WON had a front page article on it.
What would you have liked WBH to do? "Sorry Ron, we don't accept your resignation because we want to kick you out and ties you to a tree so we can kick you in the nuts. Then we want to send out press releases to further humiliate you for a violation not involving bow hunting so we can send a message that WBH does not accept hunting, fishing, parking, speeding and any other violation people can receive."
You don't like WBH, we get that. But you should be careful what you say when you run off at the mouth.
Swept under the rug by Mike Brust???? The guy retired. RC left on his own. WBH took no action because there was no action left for them to take. RC retired so WBH didn’t have to waste any time on the matter. At best they could have released a statement that said they accepted RC’s retirement but that’s not worthy of a statement. WBH did not ignore the matter. They did not sweep it under the rug because RC went quietly into the good night after he made sure all his duties were covered by other directors and you want to spin that as a knock against RC and WBH?????? RC continues to do more for the WBH than 99.9% of the bowhunters in WI and north of 90% of all bowsite members here and 100% more than you happygolucky. I think that is why you are so upset and living in a dream world and beat a dead horse that is nothing but bleached bones by now.
Happygolucky Its no wonder you were banned from this site. Whomever let you back in made a big mistake.
Convention is history. Maybe we could all work to suggest anther great guest next year. I thought Tom Hoffmam was a great featured speaker. I would have liked to see more attendees, but will leave that perpetual issue to the board to work on.
glunker your right. I thought Tom H. did a great job but I thought the seminars were good to. You had Tom and Clarence Koch Hunting turkey with a bow', Jim Schoenike supercharge your trail cameras , Kurt Heid "venison sausage making' and Kevin Wallenfang DNR open forum. Looking forward to the Dells ...
I am no fan of RC's but give it a rest people. That ship has sailed, it's done.
Lets try this on for size . lets say that this WI site is visited by 400 hunters . Like most sites about 15 % " talk " on the site , 50 , and 340 just lurk and read . Lets not get picky over exact numbers , bet I'm pretty close .
Theres a solid 10 RC haters that post so lets make the # 50 that won't have anything to do with the WBH because of RC . Now lets pick one example . Ron called me one day and asked me to work an outdoor booth with him . We didn't get along that great but he needed help . I said sure .
We had a double booth to sell memberships and merchandice . Ron was unrelenting all weekend , selling stuff, joking with customers , building friendships , working non stop , sweat pouring off of him . He sold more WBH memberships in 1 day than All that whinners on this site that won,t join because of him .
The WBH could use about 35 more RC'S with his high energy level and love for bowhunting .
RCs only real problem is he turns into Mr Hyde when you put a keyboard in front of him . I have never seen a more split personalty in my live . He shoulf be banned from keybpards ;-]
You guys are frickin nuts!!!! NUTS!!!! We all know Craptree is a Jag off:^)
Ruger X2.
Met him at a show and talked for about 20 minutes. I think he is genuine but turns into something else on the key board.
We didn't make the Convention this year because of family.
We hope to be in the Dells for the next one!
I see reading comprehension isn't very strong in some here.
If you completely set aside his pounding an illegal spike with his face buried in an illegal crutch pile.........I don't give a damn about that!,
How do you, 69 / Capt., justify the way he treated his "opponents" in your name? You both knew what he was doing, and how he was doing it? Did you, as BM's act to reign him in or did you encourage him? I assume you didn't even care about the members he drove away......they weren't the "right" kind of hunters, you know.
When he was CONSTANTLY crapping on the CC and NRB and DNR,were you in support....egging him on? I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
When he was crapping on all science, but his own, you were both in his hip pocket. Toadies.
I BLAME THE WBH FOR WHAT HE IS, NOT WHAT HE DID. You jokers all just stood back and let him and Serb take over with their big tent political race to the bottom. Shame on all of you!,,
Giggly girls indeed........
Mike I hope you make the 75th convention at the Wisconsin Dells. Ill have the wife plus grandkids. Should be a blast.
Tracker are you a cross gunner???
No. I shoot a Mathews and a Widow. Why?
Tracker, because you opine differently than BM69 means you have to be a crossbow advocate, dislike baiting, use margarine instead of butter, and be a left-handed mouse user. I've learned the comparisons are bizarre indeed but they are right before your eyes. I have to believe the ice cubes jingle and chill the Jack all day long for someone to come to his realizations. BTW Tracker, you are spot on once again.
Tracker, I don't know why you are lumping Serb in with the bad. WBH NEEDS exactly that type of person to bring them out of the dark ages. Serb and people like him would get the name out there and get members. Not sit around and be happy with the status quo.
Ruger1022, just have to add to your comment ( I am ex-WBH member and been in the mental heath field for a few yrs); I had this discussion off and on about Increase split personalities/a-schizoid/ bi-polar behaviors within the bow/archery community than other extra-curricular activities, and with the key board it is easier to see the behavior more than in person. Maybe their should be a study with archery and mental health; I know my behavior change in mid-Sep and gets rapid in Nov. and back to normal in Jan. Funny is there is no diagnosis for it in the DSM manual.
Spot on Tracker... spot on
Because you are looking for a reason to go off on a tangent / attack not related to your failure to steer WBH honorably?
RC trained you well grasshopper.
I wish I could stay and listen to you guys worry about Ron…… But I have to go to a DNR meeting.
Again, it's not about Ron. But you knew that already, didn't you?
The truth can be a bitter pill.
BM69 has some interesting points.
Good Lord, is he RC too?
Why am I not surprised ?
Rutnut Serb? You seem serious. Tell me you are joking.
Serb and RC told me, a 25-year member, that I wasn't needed, so I did what any self-respecting member would do: didn't renew, and likely never will again. How many others did they permanently alienate?
naz if Rc and Serb said that to you they were wrong to do so.
Well Naz...Serb's gone. RC's gone. What does that tell you ?? They were both big smelly farts in a small room. In a big room ? They "never" made a difference !!
Tracker, no person represents me in any way, shape or form other than myself. Please, expound on your comment. You know nothing about me, who or what I belong to. Ignorance is only bliss while you wade in it. Start spreading it and it takes on an entirely different stench. I'm starting to get a whiff of you.
Naz, you don't consider yourself a prolific poster?
Naz could you tell me the whole conversation ?
Might be searchable on Bowsite, then again, RC was banned under multiple handles and all his posts erased unless someone quoted him in their own thread. Doesn't matter any more. The ignorance they and some others showed through comments has already saved me $100 in dues since.
Naz-
Sorry, but you sound like the poster child of the kid who didn't like what happened in the sandbox, got sand kicked in your face so you took your toys and went home.
I know many members and ex-members who were told the same thing. I was one of them, but I chose to stay and fight for my bowhunting heritage.
Those 2 were the main cause of many members leaving the WBH.
Things happen and members come and go for many reasons. I know of board members who left because of RC. Do I blame them, no. Do I blame the WBH, yes, but I am an army of 1 and I can only voice my opinion and hope that others see it my way.
Even though I don't like the politics I am NOT going to quit. It's way too important for me to save what I can for future generations.
We owe it to ourselves and fellow bowhunters. But then again I realize there are 2 types of people out there. There are people that will stand up and fight for the WBH and then there are those who will sit on the sidelines and enjoy the hard works and efforts of the WBH.
So are you ready to come back and play nice or hide in the shadows?
Now your talking Mike F... you are very close to exactly what has transpired with the clown circus invasion.
No hiding at all, just decided not to give my money to an org that would support the shenanigans of those guys.
I read this whole thread. My opinion on the RC thing is that was a long time ago. Folks can't move on and because they dislike RC so much they want to lump his association to WBH into it and also blame and hate on the WBH...... That is a bit of a stretch.
They are separate, RC quit the board. No one knows what was said behind the scenes among the board members to RC or vice versa.
I live in IL but I have been a member of WBH and WTA since 1999 and 2001. I believe as a bowhunter in WI I owe it to these organizations to be a member and support those that are the one voice the state might listen too. As long as I can, I will belong to both these organizations!
I have a good friend that is a WBH board member. He is passionate about our rights and he spoke out and warned folks about Xbows the last few years. I saw him invite people to meetings, almost begging for attendance to show unity.
I am more active with the WTA so I attend that banquet normally. I can only do one banquet per year and always feel bad about not attending the WBH banquet.
I am a board member of a WI archery club and it is true there are guys who talk and guys who work. I have seen many guys with opinions who never lift a hand to enact what they preach. Really, i think there should be more appreciation for the time these guys spend away from home and family to speak for bowhunters.
Like I said, I have seen my friend in action. Believe me or not, but as a WBH board member he is representing us. I doubt he is alone and that the other WBH board members share his passion on the issues. Fighting insurance companies, lobbyist and special interest groups with unlimited money is a tough battle. They can't win them all but from what I see they try.
When is hunting season?
Regards, Bill
AW- Clown Circus Invasion? I heard the words come directly from the lips of RC.
Belittling others because he did not like their stance and would not accept the fact that someone else would disagree with him. Yes, I was a member during the downfall. I am still a member today.
Naz- So you still enjoy bowhunting, enjoy everything the WBH has done, yet still chose not to support the organization.
You took your toys and went home. You have joined the ranks of those who are takers and ride the coattails of those who fight for your bowhunting heritage. You could have chosen to fight for your stance. I thought you would be one that would have supported the hunting heritage and stayed on board to ensure this heritage would survive. Boards change, but unless you are there to push that change it's not going to happen.
Even though you have turned your back on those who fight for your ability to bowhunt, I will continue to support you.
Bill - Great post!
There are many ways to support bowhunting without joining a club, clubs are myopic and old school thinking.
Best to directly communicate your opinions to legislators, that way it is your opinion and not someone else's, or a consensus.
Example; if you bait, why join a club like WTA that is antibaiting. If you are against sharing with a crossbow season, why join a club like WBH that is supporting it?
There are many ways to support bowhunting without joining a club, clubs are myopic and old school thinking.
Best to directly communicate your opinions to legislators, that way it is your opinion and not someone else's, or a consensus.
Example; if you bait, why join a club like WTA that is antibaiting. If you are against sharing with a crossbow season, why join a club like WBH that is supporting it?
"If you are against sharing with a crossbow season, why join a club like WBH that is supporting it?"
Wait i think i know the ridiculous answer to this that some die hards here are trying to sell. Here goes and I'm sure the die hards will correct me if I'm wrong; The reason to support and join a club that sit around and do nothing or support things (or cave in on things) that you do not support is...to change them. Yes, that's it. If a club does next to nothing (in your opinion) or things you disagree with, give them some money and support them with the dream that you can change them. lol like i said, ridiculous.
"There are many ways to support bowhunting without joining a club, clubs are myopic and old school thinking. Best to directly communicate your opinions to legislators, that way it is your opinion and not someone else's, or a consensus."
+1
I mean really, just look at the following list of great accomplishments;
"And for what does the WBH do for me?Working towards getting wolves unlisted, working with the dnr on bear, turkey and deer input. keeping archery and crossbow harvest numbers separate. Getting nasp equipment into schools to hopefully get new kids interested in archery and eventually bowhunting. Learn to bowhunt programs for bear and deer. Keeping an eye on the HSUS and other anti hunter orgs. that want to end our bowhunting seasons. I could name a few more"
Really?
"Working towards" "working with" "keeping an eye on"
Those are unbelievable accomplishments. Speaking of things that can be done from an armchair...
Agree, get involved to change an organization is a stupid argument, really stupid! A cop out answer!
One joins an organization because they are aligned with it's existing objectives, NOT to bring about change in it's structure or direction.
I see a lot of opinions here and that's great. It's still a free country.
Good to see we can have a civil conversation and not belittle each other.
As far as joining an organization to change, yes I do try and bring change where warranted. But that being said, I was a member long before the downturn of the WBH, and RC. I remember the good days as well as the bad.
I remember the talk of giving away a WBH membership at archery shops across the state with the purchase of a bow. I remember fighting to bring back Big game violations as a reason for membership revocation. I remember fighting for many by law changes that affected the membership negatively and loosing.
I also remember delivering a check to Shiocton Schools to help get their Archery in the Schools program off the ground and many other positives.
If you take the politics out of it, the members of the WBH are a pretty interesting and good bunch of people.
In my years of dealing with the DNR and waterfowl regs and issues. Groups and Orgs carry far more clout and or recognition than the average joe.
Groups and Orgs. are voters and money. Individuals are opinions!
"If you take the politics out of it, the members of the WBH are a pretty interesting and good bunch of people."
Mike F +1
Sawtooth with your reasoning someone would never join or would quit an assoc if they differed on a position. So in other words unless they agreed with every position they would never be a member. If you are a democrat and disagree with a position you leave the party?
Would not be a democrat, I work three jobs so others can do nothing.
It does not matter if you are a Boshlevik, I was trying to make a point. Geesh!
How bout we stick a fork in this one?
MikeF…… Drop Tine….glunker…..Turkeyhunter….nice posts !!
Bottom line is complaining is easy. Doing it on the Internet is even easier. Those who really want to make a difference are already doing so.
Ding, ding, ding we have a winner ^^^^
Mike, never went home. Have promoted WBH many times through the years, and would do so even more IF I EVER RECEIVED A PRESS RELEASE. Tried to help them survive and hold more members by providing an idea to offer long-time members like myself (25 years) a lifetime membership deal with some sort of credit for years already paid. One or more didn't want it, so it didn't see the light of day. I'd bet many would have taken advantage of that and could forevermore be counted as members. I'm a life member of two other forward-thinking groups that offered such discounts. Not complaining, just stating that perhaps it's time to find someone who can get the word out to all state media when important things come up (shoots, conventions, booth representation at sport shows, membership offers, etc.).
So the WBH supporters complain about others not contributing. But when others have ideas or suggestions, they get shot down. That is EXACTLY why I left WBH.
Naz I understand your position on life memberships but the board has looked at the issue years ago and rightfully decided not to give credit for past memberships as a member already received benefit for their yearly membership. Life memberships sometimes keep members lingering after a point in time that they should not be lingering, but the association has to keep sending them a magazine quarterly, pins and etc. I hope this help you understand the association's position.
Those that want to make a difference are already doing so??
Great!!!
And that difference is????
AW, no EAB, no T zones, no full inclusion of crossbows with the archery season, the case law, the castle doctrine, concealed carry, mentored youth hunting. The list goes on.
Your turn, tell us what you have done.
"no EAB, no T zones, no full inclusion of crossbows with the archery season, the case law, the castle doctrine, concealed carry, mentored youth hunting."
Don't forget sliced bread, isn't the WBH responsible for that too?
Sliced bread... now that's a true accomplishment..
None of those things would have been done on their owm???
Not sure I got it but from what I see.. xguns are fully included.. in fact they can and are hunting the exact same days as archers...
And you said those that do are already doing it...
And that is????
Face it... WBH had political clout when they were membership driven.... those days are over ... unless you plan to get the entire membership involved in stances and decisions as the org started... Now you have a few guys setting all the policy and stances... not the membership...
A membership driven group would be the only one for the sport of archery... as the WBH was... it hasn't been membership driven since 2005....
So seeing those that do are already doing it.... I ask again... doing what??
"Don't forget sliced bread, isn't the WBH responsible for that too?"
Don't forget the internet, I'm pretty sure WBH helped Al Gore invent the internet;)
"no full inclusion of crossbows with the archery season"
Huh? That is exactly what we have. Some use word-smithing and semantics to try to make it seem like xbows are not fully inclusive, but they are, and that will remain too. I offered to take any and all bets on that one and there were no takers.
You can always tell when your dealing with a bunch of cross gunners!!
Yep, when you opine differently than BM69 you are either a xbow lover or a baiter or a light beer drinker. For the record, just stating a fact does not define a person as anything. A fact is simply a fact.
What ever you say preacher… i mean happy.
BM, happy seems to enjoy putting his ignorance on display. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
On another note, there is no sense betting with a person who is incapable of reading and comprehending something. The laws are in the books, available for anyone wanting to look them up. Of course with no pictures, it will take some a little longer than others to understand them.
No hogs this afternoon yet but this deer and this thread are helping to pass the time.
Don't feel alone, HunterR. Lots of people who are dis-engaged are not aware of what goes on.
"BM, happy seems to enjoy putting his ignorance on display"
Ignorance is thinking xbows are not full inclusion. You are head of the ignorance list - way up on that pedestal. It appears you have told yourself enough times that what we have is not full inclusion and is what you fought for all along and therefore you really believe it now. Yikes...
Maybe I am missing something. We do have full inclusion, who is saying otherwise???
Rut,
Good to know see me at the next WBH Convention and I will buy you a couple.
We don't have full inclusion of xguns??? Geee... funny seems the guys buying all the xguns off the shelves believe we have full friggin inclusion!!!!
LOL... guess if no one is xgun nine on your Shangri-la then blinders can dictate in small world's the xgun is not fully included.... but here is the real world.... I am pretty sure the guys with xguns will out number archers in a few short years ...
But it's your story.. tell it as you wish.
Saw, do you have full inclusion in IA?
CaptMike Its a waste of time talking to cross gunners.
I still want to know why we had to bring light beer into this. What's next tacos, I love tacos?
"Maybe I am missing something. We do have full inclusion, who is saying otherwise??? "
Only the ignorant, right Mikey?
Happy, I'd invite you to read the legislation but it is apparent that reading and comprehension are not your strong suits. Fortunately people like you only comment on sites where your comments mean nothing, while others are helping to formulate the laws you must abide by.