I would suggest each us list the top 2-3 items we want changed to avoid long lists and repetition.
My requests:
1. Minimum buck size based upon antler size, must have 4 points at least 4" long on each point.
2. Total deer kill allowed per hunter in zone 1 should be 2 deer for all seasons archery, muzzleloader, shotgun, rifle).
Basically make state land firearms, like state land bow.
Just use 4 pts per side like PA does.
2. Elimination of January season and replacement antlerless tags.
Spike, you'd need one hell of a lot of mass and significant spread to even approach P&Y with 4" tines.
Here's something I ran across that I've found to be a pretty consistent guide: Remember the 4-9-7 rule. Consider those the minimums on tine length for a standard 8 point. (4" G1, 9" G2, 7" G3) Figuring on average mass, beams, and spread, he'll make 125".
Picture of 131" buck (gross)
I usually agree with you on a lot of issues but we are really far apart on this one. 4x4 is crazy. Eliminating the replacement tag agree. Eliminating January season makes you sound like PETA. If the tags and limits what difference does it make if I shoot it in September or January?
Should have proofed that one before hitting submit; I prefer the 3 pts per side; sometimes you can have a very nice 6pt with no brow tines and I've seen some 6's that were definitely mature bucks.
My thoughts on Jan (and ouch by the way for lumping me with PETA ;o))is that giving the late-breeding does a chance to drop fawns will help rebuild the herd. There was a time when Jan really was needed but that ship has definitely sailed.
I could be talked out of the Jan part without too much arm-twisting.
Spike,
What can I say? I'm on a "Be Like Bob" kinda roll.....
I don't remember creating a post called "Tell BBB why his standards are wrong." This is what I want, you can post whatever you want.
Steve - taking 2 deer all year is a lot less than what you can take today, right? I should have added one doe and one buck to make it clearer, sorry.
nehunter - and the reason why you're not seeing bucks with at least 4 total points is,.......you're killing spikes and buttons.
spike - at one time you could hunt just about any where in the NW corner of CT and see deer on most trips to the woods. Today, you're lucky to find small pockets that hold deer. I'd like to see more mature deer in the woods, that's all.
MA Hunter - I notice your kill reports show you're taking 11,000+ each year since 2002, so when did the big drop off occur that I hear you guys talking about? It looks like your take has been steady for at least the 12 years and increasing steadily before that.
That's all they will ever be and will never grow heavy racks, and they are doing the mating with Does.
BTW - I don't shoot spikes and buttons.
nehunter - I saw 4 different bucks this past season and shot one. The other 3 were ALL above the limit I set and this is state land, and one was a nice 8, but not an older deer. What limit would you place to avoid killing young bucks? The comment about shooting spikes and buttons was intended for those on the site that might shoot the young deer, that was my point.
Also - these are the limits for the NW corner of CT only, zone one state land. 2 deer, older bucks and one doe. If you need something to eat, go to a zone that allows a higher kill rate. I travel an hour to get to where I hunt, so it's not like I can walk out my door and pass on every deer I see. I work at it.
There are a couple of nice restaurants I can recommend
If you're not looking at harvest numbers for the just completed hunting season you'd be off; If I recall correctly from a conversation with Glen the 10 towns for example in the Redding area were all off substantially from prior year's harvest numbers.
There seems to be a definite "bottom dropping out" trend unfolding, hence the surveys and the multiple threads.
Bethel down - 16.9 %
Brookfield down - 35.0 %
Danbury down - 31.0 %
Easton down - 12.2 %
Monroe down - 32.8 %
Newtown down - 34.1 %
Ridgefield down - 27.5 %
Weston down - 42.6 %
Wilton down - 14.5 %
I only see hunters at the local convenience stores and a few at State Land pull offs.
not me-- AJ's Steakhouse in Goshen is great place to get a Steak.
I'll make a promise - this season I'll bring my "good" camera, not my cell phone (worthless) and take some pictures of the deer, the bucks in particular, so that you can see what you can do even on state land if you let young deer walk.
This may not be what you do, but I talk to guys all the time who complain about "no deer" but they're out there wounding deer and shooting everything that walks by. The state land in the NW can't withstand that kind of pressure and provide a quality experience year after year.
Pictures to follow, stay tuned.
I hunt NW public and private too, and I have to say, I just don't see the hunting pressure your talking about.
I never see a another soul during archery season, and I mean never.
During gun season I may see one or two other guys all season parked by the road and that is it.
Granted, I rarely see deer, there just aren't many around where I like to hunt so I wouldn't expect to be overun with hunters.
But seriously, do you really see that much hunting pressure where your at?
Earn your buck tag by tagging a doe or does first in all zones.
Do away with seperate gun and muzzleloader tags for state and private lands.
Reduce restrictions on state lands for hunting and land trapping coyotes.
define "reasonable" bag limits please.
I would leave setting the limits to the DEEP, who have the time, resources, and are paid to do this.
With that said, I think it is a dramatic shame what is going on right now between some of DEEP and some hunters in CT, and it is typical of this states government... officials unwilling to listen to and respect the people who pay them.
A little leadership from the top at DEEP would go a long way. There are some dedicated, intelligent people on both "sides" of what's been going on lately with legit concerns. In my opinion things have escalated to a point where a lot of what's going on is an ego thing, and that holds all of us back.
The right person in charge at DEEP would have settled things down and brought everyone into the fold instead of allowing hunters and biologists to become adversaries. I am sure leadership at DEEP has read these forums, yet refuse to act and remain silent.
Hunters have a lot of important observations and experiences, and I think they should be incorporated more in DEEP's game plan than an email survey post season.
To be fair to DEEP, I don't think hunters who hunt a few zones should presume to have a blanket strategy of what will work from one side of the state to the other.
one mature buck every 16 years. And ask yourself "How did that buck get so old?" Answer, no one shot him till I came along. Don't argue with success :)
Truth is, you can hunt just as long and just as hard and have just as good a time with one tag per year as with 12; you just have to think harder about when you're ready to be done.
But my other suggestions....
Track private and public-land bow kills separately as they do for firearms; reduce the number of tags on public land if the harvest stats indicate.
No crossbows in public-land archery without a medical waiver (and stiff penalties for cheaters AND the MDs who signed off on any bogus claims).
Reduce hunter density during shotgun A in units which are undersubscribed for B. So if a unit normally gets used by 100 hunters/year, shift from a 70/30 split (or whatever it might be) to closer to 50/50 by reducing permits for A.
1. Reduce the bag limit on does. If you want more deer you can't shoot the one's giving birth to more deer. Some guys i talk to just can't get this to register. I guess that's why we need laws/regulations....tragedy of the commons.
2. I would like to see the state take a more thorough look at predators influence on deer in NW CT.
Perhaps it's in the works but I haven't come across any serious published reports yet. There's no doubt that deer numbers have declined while coyote, bobcat, and especially bear numbers have increased. But I would like to see some statistical correlation. The U.S. Forest Service did a study on fawns in Georgia from 2006-2009. The biologist John Kilgo said coyotes accounted for 36-80% of fawn moralities and current deer harvest limits were unsustainable. We might be in the same boat but its a messy situation when it comes to regulation changes. You can never please everyone. I think the state is avoiding it for as long as they can.
Don't get me wrong, there are deer in NW CT but you have to put A LOT of time in. Not enough deer for the working man who can only get out on some Saturdays.
It's even worse when Longbeard has me slaving away in the trenches on Saturday mornings 'til after 10:00!
LOL
I've hit a stage where I can hunt Saturday afternoons or take vacation time, Period. And Living Down Here + Hunting Up There, the math just doesn't work out for Saturdays, so I have to figure out a local, private-land solution... Won't last forever and I'll miss it when it's gone, but in the meantime, it's getting pretty hard to fill a tag.