Zero doe quota for Sawyer county
Wisconsin
A zero doe quota recommended by the county deer advisory council. Also recommending no baiting, bounty on coyote, and increased harvest of wolf and bear. Check out the link, they seem to be ready to do what is right to bring the deer population back.
All good ideas except for the complaint of long bow seasons. Need to get a pro bowhunter on the council.
They can recommend anything they want, but have zero power this year except on the quota recommendation (and even there has to be approved, and I believe they will be). Baiting is legislative, bounties have proven ineffective for the most part and bear quota already set for '15 (plus counties couldn't "add more" to their area's quota). Wolf hunt too set by state (if allowed, will take an act of Congress or a successful appeal, and soon, or only legal kill in WI will be in defense of life).
Story said the private land harvest was more than double the public land take in Sawyer; even with abundant public land, the story is likely the same across much of the north.
The only comment on the article so far is against the CDACs:
"On principle, I strongly oppose the establishment and operation of these County Deer Advisory Councils. As buyers of hunting and fishing licenses, we fund one of the best state wildlife and fishery management agencies in the country. DNR professionals earn advanced college degrees in wildlife and fishery science, then dedicate their lives to conserving (wisely managing) these resources. But the current Administration seems determined not to ALLOW our professionals to DO THEIR JOBS. Instead, they are required to sit back and cede authority to amateurs who, despite their noble intentions, cannot begin to understand the scientific and social complexities required to render sound judgement on the management of natural resources shared by all. Let's empower the trained professionals to do the jobs we hired them to do with respect and efficiency, and without all the trendy and demoralizing involvement of well-meaning amateurs."
I agree with that comment as well. Also, the chair for the Sawyer County committee is anti DNR, anti doe shooting. I would say anti bowhunting but he does bowhunt or at least at time did bowhunt.
I agree we can hold off the antlerless tags this year but with the current CDAC here I worry about what would happen in future years. Will the CDAC use science or emotion for decision making.
There is a huge assumption in that statement quoted by Naz. Who knows the true agenda and perspective of those wildlife managers?
A no baiting law is worthless without a good C.O. in the area that takes it seriously...and a judge to back him up. My cabin is in Burnett County where no baiting or recreational feeding is allowed and every other guy in the area has a feeder right in his front yard. Who knows what's hidden out back?? Obviously not much of a deterrent in the area for them to take it serious. Personally I could care less, just making the point that making a law doesn't cure anything.
If the deer numbers are truly that bad in a particular area then I think it would be wise to shorten the bow season in those areas. If the season opened a few weeks later or closed a few weeks earlier, I wouldn't make a big stink about it. If it betters the herd for the following years then I'd be all for it.
The problem with all these things is everyone has a different view of the "local" herd, from the guy who has managed his forests and fields for terrific whitetail habitat to the guy who has fair habitat plus food plots/feeding stations to the guy who has lousy habitat and tries to throw out a bait, to everything in between. Throw in hunting pressure — from extremely heavy to light and exclusive, and everything in between — and that's another huge variable in daylight deer sightings.
There are some spots with more than "a few" whitetails in the wolf-packed north woods — mostly on private land with the best habitat, sure, but also on some young forests. In addition to heading for greener pastures where available, I believe the public land pressure makes 'em mostly nocturnal or sends 'em deeper than most hunt; also, feeding behind home and businesses may make deer less accessible during much of the season in areas where that's popular, especially year-round feeding such as is done by many lakeside cottage owners and resorts.
Capt. Mike, agree to a point on that statement quoted from the newspaper (not my quote). I've hunted with close to 10 wildlife managers and technicians through the years, and we didn't always agree on how many deer were enough. However, for the most part, they "get" that ag areas can handle more deer … if that's all you're trying to do is satisfy more hunters. The problem lies in the fact that they also hear from those trying to grow young forests, or cash crops on farms and orchards, and those living near urban/suburban areas who are experiencing heavy deer damage to expensive trees, shrubs and plants, and are also tired of dodging deer with their vehicles. It's a balancing act. As you know, "more deer" isn't always a good thing. Even if the herd stood at 2-3 million whitetails, it's likely that many tag-holders would still come home empty-handed based on their hunting area and/or goals, skills, patience, etc.
Gee... I would think the exact same article could be written for all the decimated 19 counties...
Interesting how it was easy to add the xgun.... and after just 1 season already there is a call to shorten the bow season...
Getting rid of the feed piles would certainly have the larger impact as opposed to shortening the season... you can prolly cut that bow season kill in half or less with no feed pile to shoot over... LOL
But instead the greedy hunter will want it all.. long season... extra weapons and a feed pile to shoot over... go figure...
It is WI ya know.
I don't think a shorter season is needed or would do much.Many bowhunters are weekenders and hunting pressure increases a few weeks in the rut with a major fall off in December.
Ate at Lost Land Lake Lodge the other day. Took county B and then county A to it. It was just after dark when we went. Saw a nice doe standing at the edge of the woods on A a few miles south of 77. There were about 3 others in the woods behind her. Likely headed to a feed pile. For those that don't know the land along that part of A and B is basically all private.
Anyway the point is, in the past a drive at that time on that route, this time of year we would have been dodging deer along that entire route.
As far as baiting and hunting pressure affecting the deer, this year during the gun deer season there were far far less people in the area of Sawyer that I hunt. As in, maybe seeing one or 2 vehicles parked along the forest roads. Because of the reduction in hunters, there was a reduction of bait out in the woods. I myself saw more deer this past season than I saw the prior 4 or more years combined. So, I do like the recommendation of no baiting. Like it or not (I hate it) crossbows are hear, they should shorten that season way down, as in maybe a month and not during the rut. I personally saw the damage they did as far as un-shoot able deer with a long bow being shot no problem with the crossgun. Shortening the long bow or leaving the same length I believe would change nothing, the same amount of deer would be shot either way.
Only a few ways to kill less deer...
Make it harder(limited weapon s used and eliminate baiting)...or give hunters less time(cut out weeks of the season) you would need weeks or months cut from the bow season to have the same effect as getting rid of baiting.....
pretty simple shhhtuff
AW, it could be argued that baiting saves deer, too ..... as in, during the gun season, all the piles and associated activity with quickly drive many deer nocturnal, thus "saving" deer. Some on this site have said they've seen more deer up north without bait piles all over (due to decreased hunting pressure). Some also said the year of the statewide bait ban ('02?) they saw better natural movement than they had in years.
A ban on baiting is tricky-if feeding is allowed. In the area I live in-everyone around the lake feed deer-even weekenders have corn and blocks out. Also- Most land owners who haven't had to put food plots out because baiting was allowed in my Area-Hayward-will now put them out to hold deer on there property. That's not a bad thing, but pockets of deer will remain-leaving a void on public land. The best thing to do is to keep the antlerless at zero and hope for a couple nice winters in a row to rebuild. Anyone have any idea on whether or not the baiting ban would take effect in 2015? My guess is if legislation controls that-which I'm pretty sure it does-that might be 2016 at best unless CWD was discovered in a unit that it wasn't present in?
I agree Naz on the gun season.. however no one suggested shortening that season.. Their concern was bowhunting...and those kill numbers and shortening that season.. and i can bet da farm that bow harvests would be cut in half with no baiting...thus eliminating shortening the season...
Now if they want to shorten the gun season.. say to 3 or 4 days.. I would also be in favor of that.. say move opening say to Thanksgiving .. run 4 days and then Muzzle season..
But the first call to shorten the bow season comes after just 1 season of xgun inclusions ..you take the feed piles away.. and those numbers are going way down in all these decimated counties
"But the first call to shorten the bow season comes after just 1 season of xgun inclusions"
Just as many of us predicted it would.
Jim, as stated earlier, CDACs have no power to ban baiting this year, or ever, unless the legislature changes current law.
I wonder if their local DNR officials that were at the meeting let out the little tid-bit of information that ours did. They said that if we had a zero quota, that the opportunity for youth to shoot an antlerless deer could be eliminated for the County too. Nobody in our County wanted to have the possibility to have that opportunity taken from the youth. After they said that, I asked the question about what would happen then if we set a quota of 2 antlerless deer for the County. I was told then that they work in increments of 25, so I said then we can make it 25 so we wouldn't give the DNR secretary the chance to take youth opportunities away. They said that 25 wouldn't be worth the time to do it. After more discussion of deer kill, by all different means, hunting, cars, predators, ect. and the very mild winter, we figured that the herd could still increase by over 10% with a quota of 380 with a split of available tags going 75% private lands and 25% public lands.
So what has the Bowhunters suggested as a parse of action to prevent loosing days of the bow season??? What alternative action could they support to protect our season???
Crickets...
Five, I could be wrong, but as I understand it, unless DNR takes the new authority granted upon them in the permanent deer trustee package rule — or unless the legislature enacts a "new" rule — youths, disabled and vets anywhere can take antlerless, even in "buck-only" areas.
AW, no worries about loosing days in the bow season. Just because a CDAC "wishes" something doesn't make it law. The tools CDACs might get beginning in 2016 are things like extra free tags, not shortening the bow season. Could also shoot for antlerless-only seasons, though if they're talking the entire bow/gun season, there will be a mass exodus of hunters from that county and/or a big drop in license sales. Unless they're talking about allowing a mid-October antlerless hunt again, which I believe would take legislative approval? Bonus bucks and APRs might also be on the table some day, but IMO, EAB beats 'em all in farm country. It's the only one that appeals to those who otherwise won't shoot a doe. Would need to register in person, obviously.
AW. You channeling the "Force" again? There is no official or official action that has taken any type of stance or action regarding this issue. Maybe you want to relate your nightly dreams to the Bowhunters also so they can take action on them also?
Naz... when gun hunters suggest shortening the bow season.... some one needs to take notice... that someone should be the bowhunters ..what possible actions ..or suggestions as a alternative can they produce??
You can't wait till it is a bill.... you need to be proactive..
Or
You will loose hunting days..
What is the plan ???
I've known gun hunters who've suggested shortening the bow season for more than a decade already. If all 600K license buyers complained enough, something might happen. Until then, wouldn't sweat it. Remember the last in, first out deal on crossbows? That would be the first season to be shortened, if needed.
This is off thread but the post regarding more killed on private land than public can't be restricted there. Isn't that a state wide issue?
I'm in south central, in a CWD control zone...this horse has been beaten but bear with me...I've brought this up previously and was crucified by some. No matter. I do hunt on private land, but its not unlike the public around me in regard to deer numbers. Two of us bowhunt the property, and a few hunt the surrounding area. I do not rifle hunt.
After the scourge a few years ago, the herd was decimated...the rifle hunters in the area filled a lot of antlerless tags. We also have an increase of predators, including wolves.
I've seen 6 deer total in the last 2 bow seasons, and passed the few shots I was presented. I've seen more deer this winter than in the past, so perhaps we've turned a corner.
Conversely, people I know practicing QDM on land within 10 to 30 miles from me have incredible, well balanced herds...hale n healthy. They do shoot does, to keep everything in balance, not to exterminate.
One problem as I see it here, is not necessarily overall population, but dispersal. Perhaps thats just the new normal. I get management, but where's the happy medium.
Maybe the zones are too big...in my case, very few deer. A short distance away, too many?
Acquiring hunting permission was no problem in my youth...almost impossible today. So "hunter friendly" properties get hit hard, and neighboring "no hunting" lands become sanctuaries. What can be done about that?
Until the DNR/feds are willing to do some management on public lands, there will continue to be a large disparity. Same goes for the DNR/legislature having the balls to have more strict rules on public land. The problem with that is it's not going to make anyone rich or get anyone elected so it will never happen.
FiveR, we had zero antlers quota here last year and the youth/disabled/active military could still take antlerless.
At some point some thing will have to give in these decimated counties...
Cut the hunting days significantly for bowhunters...
Or
Get rid of baiting for good...
Both measures would produce the same reduced harvest for the bow season...
You pick.
AW, decimated is your word. Very few of the 19 are "decimated" IMO. Way, way down from record highs? Certainly. And Iron would be considered on the short list of truly hurting herds. IMO, you will see herds rebound significantly in many northern counties within two years IF we get another mild winter and if they stay the course with buck-only.
Bow will not be shortened, and barring CWD discovery doubt you'll see any movement on bait/feed bans. Sure many deer die over bait, but I'd bet just as many are "saved" by it due to guys who intrude too often or at the wrong times, spooking deer and making them use the bait only after hours. Also, I believe year-round feeding operations (and there are many who recreationally feed up north) helped a lot of deer survive the brutal 2013-2014 winter. While I wouldn't be in favor of year-round feeding when populations are abundant (or overly abundant, as they were in the mid-90s), having that option when the herd is "down" as it is now certainly can help more animals ride out the winter.
Deci.ated is in the eye of the beholder... you are correct Naz... and i am certain that neither of us has a opinion on more the 1 or 3 of these counties ties....
That means.. if it is not so that these are decimated counties ties that once were home to 3 or 4 times the herd they presently hold....why are meetings suggesting cutting hunting days for bow season... if it's not decimated... there is no point in that suggestion...
Folks want more deer... it's that simple... to get more deer you either need more habitat ...or less killed...
You can't have more habitat so you are left with killing less...
To kill less .. far less in the bow season... one would need to cut significant days from the season say like 50% ..to lower the kill.. and or eliminate the feed piles which would do the exact same reduction of kill and retain all the hunting days....
You can swing that same scenario into the firearm seasons as well...
"You can't have more habitat so you are left with killing less..."
Actually, you can have more and/or better habitat. Many problems with the deer population in the north is the habitat itself. Public lands not managed properly or managed for good deer habitat. Private lands too. Properly managed land would increase the carrying capacity for that area. It would also disperse the herd more evenly and possibly provide more cover from predators. It would definitely provide more browse for winters.
And you can kill less without changing season structure too. Just don't shoot everything that walks. You'll never get everyone on board but individual landowners working with neighbors can.
Our land up north was like many areas that lacked deer. We, along with a couple of neighbors, finally cut(probably 10 years overdue) and all agreed not to shoot doe, youth included. During last years gun season, I saw more deer opening day than I've seen in the prior 5 years combined.
You want people to change laws to promote your way of hunting and give you better opportunities but in all reality, you have all the ability to create better opportunities, you just need to use it.
The biggest problem with deer populations in the forest areas is: People like big trees
"Meetings suggesting cutting hunting days for bow season" is nothing more than one or more CDAC members stating an opinion, something that has been uttered in one way or another for more than a decade by the gun-only crowd (and nothing has become of it because there hasn't been a mandate from a massive amount of gun-only hunters and likely won't be; crossbows will be the first to have anything shortened, based on the way the season was set up, IF they are proven to be detrimental to the herd. Remember, wasn't too many years ago there was concerns of projected hunter declines of 10-20 percent, and if so, how would Wisconsin (and other states) be able to manage their herds? I don't see DNR/legislators pulling anything away from crossbows any time soon, esp. if deer sightings increase this year, which I bet they will.
Geitz, +1.
Well good luck Gietz with getting the tree huggers to log more govt lands... in the mean time it is far easier and faster to just kill less deer..
If the goal is really to repopulate... and that can't happen with present seasons and available tags..
I suggested this last year that instead of no doe permits... to just close those counties all together last year for all deer hunting... had that been done then... good hunting would be on the horizon for this fall... allowing deer to be shot at all when the herd is that low is pretty dumb ...
if ... IF the goal is actually to restore the herd that is... But that's not the goal... the goal is to pass along to us dumb hunters that nothing else can be done because of this legislation or that rule needs to go thru this clown posse ... or what have you...
It's not that complicated ... it's stupid deer... they either get shot off.... or they dont... the in between stuff means squat ..
It comes down to do you want a restored herd or not... that's it.. to restore it.. less deer must be shot..period..
Now you can pick how that is done... applications for tags.. shortening the seasons... going to 1 buck .... getting rid of baiting.....
you can not continue to shoot the herd off and expect the deer fairy to replenish it... something needs to be sacrificed...or it will not change a darn thing.
Well according to that article 1 buck was shot per sq.mile. That's 16 40"s. So if a person owns 40 acres He should get a Buck every 16 years. Personally I think they should shut all seasons down for a year. There just isn't enough deer to kill. I have been Deer hunting since 1953. I never seen it this bad up there. Here in Waupaca we have them literally coming out of our ears. It used to be that way up North.
Spot on Geitz. But like i said in my post above. There will be no change in the management of public lands, unless. A politician figures out a way to benefit from it.
Redclub, now that is some strange math. Why would it take 16 years to grow another buck to shoot? It is possible the hunter sits in a good spot and gets a buck every year.
Interesting views here- here is mine For the most part with the exception of youth and disabled antlerless tags- we had very little antlerless harvest last year in Sawyer County-this year it appears to be the same. We have had two easy winters. The DNR cant control them, but they can control Doe shooting-and they finally have. So, deer will multiply here, I'm already seeing more since the normal killing of antlerless was cut almost to zero in my hunting area. I fed three or 4 fat does that in other years would have been in someones freezer. Next fall should have a better fawn crop- and the herd will increase. Its not doomsday in the areas that I hunt in Northern Wisconsin-but its not like Waupaca County and never has been. Closing deer season-no way. Its not all about killing deer-the herd can still grow with a hunting season.
So.. we can't close the season
And we have to be allowed to feed them..
That leaves ...Shortening the hunting seasons...limiting the tags through applications... and going to 1 buck per hunter regardless of weapon...
Hmm... that's a short list on any attempt at killing less deer..
The guy who posted he fed 3 or 4 fat does this year that would have been in a freezer... maybe those fat does are in a wolves or a coyotes pile of scat from being dragged down and killed from being fed all winter... so you can't count them until next fall.. there are a lot that will be killed off from being weakened on a steady diet of corn for the last 7 months...and some of those will also loose their fawns because of it... so to say feeding 4 fat does that would be in a freezer otherwise is well... a matter of oppinion
"That leaves ...Shortening the hunting seasons...limiting the tags through applications... and going to 1 buck per hunter regardless of weapon..."
AW, you sure seem to like limiting hunting opportunity whereas, most would prefer to expand it. Once you start giving away opportunity, you start sliding down a slippery slope and right into the hands of the anti's.
Deer up north will repopulate. It may take awhile but it will happen.
AW everything you posted in your last post is pure speculation. If feed is so bad why do western game and fish departments implement emergency feeding Jan-March for Elk and deer?
I wonder how many of the posters here actually live in the North-or Sawyer county. I know Jeff MN does, not sure about the rest. Seems to be a lot of experts here who have opinions-- I guess I'm one of them. As far as predation- hunters are number one-if we pass on deer that are killed by other predators later-then its still a deer that is passed and it had a chance and maybe saved a healthier animal from the same fate.. Kind of like the fisherman I talk to with attitudes like this- "might as well keep them the Indians will spear em anyway" That's pretty narrow minded. I'm happy the DNR did what they did with the restrictions-the herd will grow. I still have 4 fat adult does feeding near my house on my food plot along with a bunch of fawns and a few Bucks. The wolf didn't get them, and the does were protected-that's a good thing. I wouldn't of killed them, but my neighbor's may or may not have.
Jim, agree with a lot of what you wrote, but two mild winters? This year, yes, but last? Last year was the most severe recorded in winter severity index, and the year prior, though only mild to moderate in WSI points in most areas, featured a very cold, snowy and "late" spring which was bad enough that even 20+ deer died in one swamp in Door County - in farm country.
oops- I meant two horrible winters and one mild. Its amazing what a difference this has been on the heating bill, very little if any winter kill- and general attitudes and moods! Now if the ice melts I can go fishing and stop posting!
Dang it NAZ. I have been gone all day but was going to mention that to Jim but you beat me to it.
But I do agree with what Jim is saying once we got it understood.
Great!! Change nothing... Every thing is great then...
Get Killin this fall
