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Buckthorn, spring attack
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
Jeff in MN 24-Apr-15
10orbetter 24-Apr-15
happygolucky 25-Apr-15
10orbetter 25-Apr-15
HunterR 25-Apr-15
10orbetter 25-Apr-15
happygolucky 25-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 26-Apr-15
stinky at home 27-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 27-Apr-15
happygolucky 27-Apr-15
JRW 27-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 27-Apr-15
Naz 27-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 28-Apr-15
Naz 28-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 28-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 28-Apr-15
Treefarm 28-Apr-15
HunterR 28-Apr-15
happygolucky 29-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 29-Apr-15
happygolucky 29-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 30-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 30-Apr-15
happygolucky 30-Apr-15
Mike F 30-Apr-15
Jeff in MN 30-Apr-15
happygolucky 01-May-15
lame crowndip 01-May-15
Jeff in MN 01-May-15
Jeff in MN 13-May-15
Treefarm 14-May-15
lame crowndip 18-Aug-15
Jeff in MN 18-Aug-15
lame crowndip 18-Aug-15
PB in WI 18-Aug-15
sagittarius 18-Aug-15
Jeff in MN 18-Aug-15
Badger Bucks 19-Aug-15
Tweed 28-Oct-18
South Farm 30-Oct-18
From: Jeff in MN
24-Apr-15
Everyone has a lot to do in the spring but if you have or suspect buckthorn in your area now is a good time to attack it. I was outside a bit today and leafy bushes and box elder are starting to show leafs. (Central Wisconsin) I did not see any buckthorn (thankfully) but it would be leafing out now too. With few other leafs out it is easier to spot the buckthorn now. I will probably get after it on Monday in an area where I killed lot of big stuff last spring. I expect to see a lot of little buckthorn popping up and some big stuff that I missed.

From: 10orbetter
24-Apr-15
Been on the attack for 10 plus years. Nasty crap. I hate it but, bucks love it.

From: happygolucky
25-Apr-15
Are you guys still using a mix of Garlon 4 and diesel to kill buckthorn?

From: 10orbetter
25-Apr-15
Good question Happy, I've never done that!

From: HunterR
25-Apr-15
If buckthorn was that terrible (I'm not saying it isn't) why doesn't the DNR make a bigger deal about it and get the media to advocate for a "war on buckthorn" much like they did with CWD in deer? Other than a few guys on this site who seem to have made the act of removing buckthorn their primary hobby, I hear very little about it anywhere else.

From: 10orbetter
25-Apr-15
HunterR, you don't want to hear about. It is bad stuff! You cut it, and it quadruples. You burn it, it thrives!

From: happygolucky
25-Apr-15
In MI, the NRCS has programs to assist land owners in getting rid of buckthorn. As 10 said, it is prolific. Cutting it does nothing but make it propogate. It has no habitat value. It chokes out what surrounds it and it is a bear to kill.

From: Jeff in MN
26-Apr-15
Some county ag agencies will subsidize some of the costs for treatment.

Garlon 4 generic is all I have used for years. Used to mix it 4 parts diesel to 1 part garlon but last couple of years I have used 5 parts diesel to 1. Some people even use 6 parts diesel but I think they probably spray a lot of the mix on the trunk. I use an ultra low volume sprayer so I probably will not go more than 5 parts.

I have heard some people concerned about using diesel in a hand sprayer. Manufactures of the sprayers say not to use combustibles in them. I think that is just a CYA statement. Diesel is not that highly flammable and has some lubricant properties so I don't worry about it.

Just don't use a sprayer that has a 'funnel' type top. All sorts of crud falls on the funnel and finds it's way into the mix when pumping air into the tank. Then it plugs up the sprayer filter or the tip of the wand.

27-Apr-15
Anybody try these out to get rid of them? Saw a sign along the road and checked out the website. Not sure if the $5 per bag is worth it, but wondered if anyone knew about it. http://www.buckthornbaggie.com/

From: Jeff in MN
27-Apr-15

Jeff in MN's Link
I repeated Stinky's link here so you don't need to copy and paste it.

It might work but I doubt it and I would never use them. Too expensive and time consuming to first cut the trunk and then install the bag, and then to take the bag off later if you want to reuse it.

A person would have to be totally against using chemicals to even try this technique. They are right that pulling buckthorn larger than ones small enough to pull by hand or simply cutting at the stump is a waste of time as it will not work.

From: happygolucky
27-Apr-15
I saw those too and won't do it due to the time requirement when you are dealing with a boat load of them buggers. It is far easier to spray. That said, Garlon 4 is not cheap by any means either.

From: JRW
27-Apr-15
One of the properties I used to hunt in Columbia County went from a beautiful woodlot to a buckthorn thicket within ten years. That stuff is bad, and if I ever see it on my property I will kill it on sight.

From: Jeff in MN
27-Apr-15

Jeff in MN's Link
There is no need to spend good money on Garlon 4 when there are much cheaper generic's out there. The link is the one generic brand that I have used for several years. Not sure but I think my last order was ballpark of $70 per gallon shiped right to your house. They only sell it in case lots but they do a case of 6 quarts if you don't have anyone to share a case of 4 gallons.

Mix it with diesel at 5/1 and you get a gallon for stump or base application for $15 per gallon.

Spray leafs with it mixed with water and it goes even farther.

From: Naz
27-Apr-15
HunterR, from WDNR website:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/invasives/fact/commonbuckthorn.html

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/invasives/fact/glossybuckthorn.html

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Invasives/control.html

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Invasives/care.html

"Invasive shrubs such as buckthorn and honeysuckle prevent the regeneration of young trees, causing a long term but very serious impact on forestry in Wisconsin – a $20 billion dollar per year industry. Control of buckthorn alone has been estimated at $500-$2,000 per acre over multiple years.

From: Jeff in MN
28-Apr-15
Good links Naz.

I was surprised that common and glossy are present in the three extreme NW counties of the state. I will have to keep an eye open in Sawyer county.

However the distribution maps are not accurate. None is shown on the maps in Manitowoc county yet it has been a serious problem there for several years.

Landowners should assume it is present in every county by now. They were once sold by nurseries as an ornamental and thus got their start planted at city and farm homes, then the birds spread seeds to woodlands. This is why infestations are so scattered. People would be surprised to find out that they have it in their own or neighbors city yard.

From: Naz
28-Apr-15

Naz 's Link
Here's one more, dated 2013:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestHealth/documents/ControlofInvasivePlants.pdf

From: Jeff in MN
28-Apr-15
That article mentions a 7:1 mix with Garlon or generic. One bowsite user posted that he used that mix successfully. However finding the buckthorne, getting to it, and applying the spray is labor intensive enough for me that I personally would not mix that thin. I'm glad to spend a little more on the herbicide and be sure I get a clean one shot kill. ;-)

From: Jeff in MN
28-Apr-15

Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
I just got back from treating a small patch that I treated on June 7 and again mid summer last year. It is only about 3 acres total, half of it seriously affected with a lot of stuff that was 20+ feet tall. A few 8 inches in diameter. Reason I treated in mid summer is that I knew I missed some tall ones and with most of the tall ones now brown the green ones stood out pretty good by looking up.

Well today I found about a dozen tall ones I still missed, they were mostly 2" diameter and two about 4". There were quite a few up to 1" and tons in the quarter inch class. I did have 100% kill from last year, I could tell because I break off a branch when I treat anything over a couple feet high and nothing I treated today had any broken branches.

I probably treated over 300 today in about 2 hours. No way could you treat that many using any method other than trunk base spraying. Well except foliar spray and there is still a ton of stuff less than a foot tall that I need to foliar spray in that patch. When you open up the canopy like I did last year the seeds just explode. That is what the picture is, just one small part of what needs to be foliar sprayed.

By the way timing is perfect right now. The BT is well leafed out, some other stuff has leafs but overall there is very good visibility to easily spot individual BT.

Oh ya, almost forgot to say that I also spotted a good tree to put a stand in. Nice trail has developed right in front of it.

From: Treefarm
28-Apr-15
I will add a hint. Start the attack on buckthorn by removing or killing the biggest specimen first...ignore the "small stuff". By doing this, you concentrate your efforts where it is most efficient.

The key to massive kill of buckthorn is to wait until fall when native trees have dropped their leaves yet buckthorn has succulent leaves. This date is about October 20th give/take a bit. This period lasts about 2 weeks. You drop what you're doing and begin doing foliar spraying using water. Mix at 3-4% triclopyr (Garlon). Gets stiff wind to your back and waft the spray onto the leaves of the buckthorn. Target buckthorn that stands 6 feet and less. Generally Garlon 3 (an amine) is used. Garlon 4 (an ester) can be used as an emulsion in water. This method only kills the trees with green leaves because it won't penetrate bark when used with water. Because native trees have dropped leaves, they are spared. Large swaths of little buckthorn are EASILY killed this way. This is a way to precision target buckthorn while sparing natives.

Using oil penetrants like diesel or odorless paraffin should be used as direct application with low-volume wands or brushes to avoid collateral damage of native trees. Oil will penetrate indiscrimanantly.

Try the fall foliar spraying...very efficient.

Garlon (triclopyr) 4 butoxyethyl ester is great mixed with oil (ester soluble in oil). The ester form can be mixed with water to form an emulsion. Garlon (triclopyr) 3 amine is great mixed with water (amine is soluble in water. Amine CANNOT be used with oil penetrant.

The reason the DNR doesn't' spend a lot of time educating about buckthorn is because they have to prioritize the threat. CWD is a billion dollar threat to hunting industry. Buckthorn is mainly on private lands where individuals choose to fight it. The landowner absorbs the timber productivity loss. The biggest threat today in exotic invasive plants in Garlic Mustard. GM is 15-20x more destructive than buckthorn. The DNR is only one of the avenues to Learn. They can't go door to door. Lots of web education is out there. People just need to "want" to learn.

From: HunterR
28-Apr-15
Thanks for the links Naz. I could have guessed there were a few articles about it on the DNR's website, never really checked as I spend very little time there. But my question was;

"If buckthorn was that terrible (I'm not saying it isn't) why doesn't the DNR make a bigger deal about it and get the media to advocate for a "war on buckthorn" much like they did with CWD in deer?"

So why does a person have to go to the DNR's website to hear about it? That wasn't the case with CWD. The DNR and the media took every opportunity possible to create fear in people over CWD, why not things like Buckthorn? "When in doubt keep killing buckthorn" right? How many articles have you written about buckthorn over the years? How many about CWD?

Edit to say Treefarmer must have been typing while I posted and he makes some good points.

From: happygolucky
29-Apr-15
Jeff,

Are you spraying uncut buckthorn? I have been cutting mine because they are hindering some trails but I have others I'd love to just spray to kill.

I swore that I read some time ago that people were using Canola oil instead of diesel with their Garlon. Anyone still doing that?

From: Jeff in MN
29-Apr-15
There are all sorts of plant based oils you can use. Cost is the difference, off road diesel is cheaper for me and I don't mind the smell. The site I linked above even sells the generic garlon pre mixed if you wanted to go that route.

Yes, I treat uncut. The buckthorn I am doing is in areas where I don't care if the trunk stays there for a while. Just cut the stuff that is in your way, leave the rest.

From: happygolucky
29-Apr-15
Jeff,

Do the uncut trees eventually just die and fall but can't propogate?

From: Jeff in MN
30-Apr-15

Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Yes, just like any tree that dies, it stands until the roots rot to the point where the rest of the tree falls. No chance of regrowth unless you didn't treat all around the trunk. They will eventually fall which is not long for small BT but the two dead ones in this picture that I treated last year will be standing for a while. I was out treating yesterday and took this picture. I did find a couple of good size live ones about 15 yards from this one that I missed last year, they are as good as dead now. There were several new seedlings growing under this dead pair. One of them must have been a female and there will be seeds sprouting there for several years.

The only exception to this answer might be if you base treated a female with seeds (berries) in summer there might be less chance of the seeds being viable if you cut the tree and deprive the seeds of any nutrients sooner than simply treating the standing tree. I know literature will advise destroying the berries which is really hard to do with a tree as big as these. Another advantage of base treating now versus in fall.

From: Jeff in MN
30-Apr-15

Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
The little antler in this picture is another advantage of being out there and treating this time of year. Not to mention being able to see deer activity on the trails.

From: happygolucky
30-Apr-15
Much appreciated Jeff.

From: Mike F
30-Apr-15
Jeff-

Thanks, much appreciated.

From: Jeff in MN
30-Apr-15
Busy day, I am wore out. Started with spraying dandelions on the lawn, about 2 acres worth. Sprayer and tractor did not cooperate with me very well.

Then I spent several hours killing BT on about 2 acres of my own land. Still have another 2 acres to go. I just can't seem to reach the point of extermination. Every year I think I must be done and still find at about 50 each year on the total of about 4 acres where they populate.

As I got down to a half gallon in the sprayer and finished out at a break point I headed over to the neighbors to spray about 6 big stems I noticed over there yesterday after I ran out of spray. Before doing those I went to hit a few little stems on another fence line that I noticed. Got those and then there was another, and another so I kept following that fence. I ended up spraying over 52 trunks that were over 3" diameter along abut 200 yards of fence. Some single trunks but maybe half were multiple stems off a common stump, some as many as 6 stems on a trunk. That's not even counting smaller stuff that I sprayed. I quit spraying stuff under an inch so I could get the big stuff with what was in the sprayer. That is just what I could reach from one side of the fence. There is a LOT more on the other side.

No wonder I cannot reach an end point on my land. Birds are likely carrying seed from there right over to my place.

Gotta keep telling myself to not throw in the towel.

From: happygolucky
01-May-15
Jeff, would it be best to cut it and spray the trunks so you know exactly what has been addressed? I know that is a lot more work (I know, I'm doing it :)). You'd be able to come back later in the summer and see the cuttings with flowers and know you missed them and hit them at that time.

Have you used dye in your spray to help know what has been sprayed?

01-May-15
Happy-I do this all winter. I cut the stuff as tight to the ground as I can and paint the stump with a brush and Garlon/diesel. Works for me.

From: Jeff in MN
01-May-15
Happy, that would certainly work but way too much effort required. If I go back in a month and see green I can tell that I missed it. A lot of this stuff I can barely fight my way through to treat it much have anywhere to drop them and then have the trunks in the way. There are a lot of dead elms standing and even more fallen (Dutch Elm Disease) and just those make it hard to get around. Add blackberry brush and prickly ash to make it even worse. Eventually these dead BT are going to fall and then I might wish I had cut and burned them.

I just wish I could get my neighbors to do their property. Most just don't care. The closest ones I am doing for them just to help reduce the amount of seed that gets to my property. Some of it I hunt on so I sort of feel it is one way to thank them.

I treated one area of my own land this morning that I have been treating hard for about 3 years now. It had a big female that dropped a lot of seed before I noticed it. I still treated probably about 100 stems in that less than 1 acre chunk but for the first time they were all under 3' tall, most of them under 1' tall so I have gained on it.

From: Jeff in MN
13-May-15

Jeff in MN's Link
I just ordered a case of 4 gallons of generic garlon 4 from the outfit I linked above and again in this post. If you need it just call the number for the salesman for this area. (Skip, 423 314 4978) He will likely have you email your address, payment info, and then reply with your price and final OK to fill the order. (unless you happen to catch him in his office)

Mine was $62.31 a gallon shipped right to me. They also have cases that have 6 quarts in it if you don't need 4 gallons.

UPDATE: I goofed on the price. The $62 per gallon did NOT include shipping and tax. Actual price per gallon delivered will end up close to $71 per gallon.

From: Treefarm
14-May-15

Treefarm's embedded Photo
Treefarm's embedded Photo
Alligare just changed shipping rates. Triclopyr 3A mixed in water does wonders on broad leaves such as Garlic Mustard which I currently am battling on neighboring proerties...absolutely nasty stuff, 20x more destructive than buckthorn. Learn to identify it.

18-Aug-15

lame crowndip's embedded Photo
lame crowndip's embedded Photo
This is supposed to be the proper look for buckthorn. The photo does not do the pile justice as it is over 6 feet tall. I have made three such piles in the last week. I also removed the honeysuckle and the prickly ash as well. I found this area of infestation last winter and made war on it now.

From: Jeff in MN
18-Aug-15
That must be fun to do in the heat we have had over the last week. Good to get it done.

18-Aug-15
Jeff...only did it in the morning. Sure is good to get revenge on this stuff. Some of them were LOADED with immature berries.

From: PB in WI
18-Aug-15
Question - I just scanned all the above posts so I may have missed the answer, but is buckthorn the same as autumn olive? I have that on the perimeter of my yard and it really takes over.

From: sagittarius
18-Aug-15
Buckthorn and autumn olive are two different plants.

From: Jeff in MN
18-Aug-15
Burning the females with berries is a very good thing to do but a lot of work. That's why I like to kill the big stuff in the spring before the berries have a chance to develop so I don't need to do all that extra work.

From: Badger Bucks
19-Aug-15
Both buckthorn and autumn olive are invasives and can be eliminated using the same techniques.

From: Tweed
28-Oct-18
So I was out yesterday and its that time of year where the only green is the buckthorn. Has the DNR ever considered aerial spraying for buckthorn during this time of year?

From: South Farm
30-Oct-18
I hate to say, but after 15 years I've given up on that crap. Life's too short and I gotta start picking my battles or lose my mind. Honestly, I think I hate buckthorn more than the deer do anyway. Nowadays, unless it's growing in my path I say to heck with it....just too impossible to eradicate until the neighbors get on board and do likewise:(

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