Might WI try this approach?
Wisconsin
Way to much greed in WI, with both the DNR and hunters.
No need to, simply make it 100 percent buck-only where needed. Guys will still buy tags for the chance at a buck, and you're not hurting future recruitment.
Naz, in theory it sounds good to say that taking the males of a species doesn't hurt the population. But if you factor in predation and winterkill on top of that, which doesn't discriminate by sex. It does hurt overall numbers. I have seen this first hand with the turkey population, as have many others. The DNR pencil pushers can spout all they want. It's out there plain to see in the real world.
A buck quota is what is needed to balance the herd dynamics
Make it a hunt not a harvest for bucks
Harvesting is for does. Never see it in Wisconsin limited buck tag put in for drawing per specific unit. Dream on
"No need to, simply make it 100 percent buck-only where needed. Guys will still buy tags for the chance at a buck, and you're not hurting future recruitment. "
I think it is that simple. Don't kill any does in those buck only areas and that includes all the feel-good tags like youth hunts, etc. It has been stated by many people that taking bucks has little impact ont he dpsm numbers.
I don't ever see a hunt being totally scrapped for a season. But one never knows.
Seriously, how pathetic is it that it seems we have come full circle in the whitetail world? After all of these years, the fact there is even a need to discuss possible cancelation of a deer season illustrates how inept wildlife professionals and hunters are at conservation. It all points to one major vice, greed! Both sides always saying me,me,me, and wanting more. One deer, one hunter, per season should be enough. Yes, winter kill and other predators have an impact but, we are the species with a brain larger than a pea. We ought to be able to exercise more self control and have enough passion for the animal to recognize it is finite resource and make sensible harvest decisions.
Historically deer numbers are higher than ever. Fact is we have done a great job managing deer populations. What is happening now is mis- management of predators, along with the greed of some hunters who have to kill something, with no regard for the age structure of the herd. Of course there will always be the greedy few who will not give up their chance of getting a deer, even at the expense of recruiting new hunters. Pure greed or just ignorance?
Our weapons and technology( cameras etc) have advanced too far. Time to begin limiting the two legged hunter. The four legged are a fact of life, we are not.
"Historically deer numbers are higher than ever. "
They were far higher in the late 90s and early 2000s. Just look at the kill numbers in 2000. Deer numbers in the north might be at historic lows. Just ask any of the northern hunters how their sightings compare now to say 15 years ago.
One step closer to a natural revolving ecosystem where hunters are no longer needed. Coyote, Bobcats, Wolves, and Bears will keep the checks and balances.
Drop Tine is correct. Human hunters no longer hunt to control or improve the herd, horn porn got in the way. Bad image to voters.
Predators are more efficient, no APR's,no private vs public, etc, etc.
Wisconsin, I can only speak for the NE corner.
Get rid of all doe killing, period, no special seasons period.
One buck rule, period gun or bow, (for this area only)
The deer do not need supplemental feeding, they need a chain saw.......
Greenies are winning, little to no control on predators, the bobcat system is a joke, so also the NF is kept in old growth,,,,,,,
Maybe we shouldnt allow 10,000+ does to be shot in a "no doe zone".
Capt., Sawtooth, Drop Tine, razor, retro it is good to see that we are all on the same page in one way or another. Our future depends on it. Retro, your point is especially keen! No does, means no does period. All they gave us was lip service. We need to send a message with our votes. Our State is now being run like a business and with every business I've ever been associated with the buck ultimately stopped with the CEO or President. This is no different!
Happyending, I did not define historically but to me that encompasses hundreds of years, not ten or twenty.
"Historically deer numbers are higher than ever. "
"I did not define historically but to me that encompasses hundreds of years, not ten or twenty. "
Seriously, hundreds of years to try to make a point? Do you really expect people to just be happy because there are more deer now than hundreds of years ago? That is the strangest analogy I've ever read on any hunting site. We are living in the current era not hundreds of years ago. Not many of us were here hundreds of years ago to support your claim. Can you supply population numbers from hundreds of years ago to back up your claim LOL.
Ask the people up north (BTW, we have family property in Oneida County whereas you are down south and are clueless as to what is happening up north) if the current state of the deer population is at a historical high compared to the early 2000s. That comparison has real meaning.
If anything, the deer population up north might be at historic lows. They surely are not at historic highs. Nowhere close. If they were at historic highs, you would not see all the buck only units, people upset with 10k does being shot, and people even asking if the hunting season should be shutdown. Heck, this thread would not be here. Yikes...
Oneida county has the lowest deer population I have seen in the last 44 years.
I have no idea what the deer population was when the woods were shared with three toed horses.
Sawtooth...NAZ has a friend up there that baits out the back door and says there are lots of deer up that way:^)
There are some deer, particularly in the subdivision areas. There are enough for a hunt, but nothing like the 80's and 90's when populations were probably too high.
Sawtooth, are you referring to the 1880/90s or 1780/90s LOL?
Happyplace, you need to get a grip. You allow your ignorance to shine when you respond to a comment not addressed to you AND taken out of context. You really need to get outside. Living in that basement is making you a hater and a very ugly person. And, don't forget your meds, as it is obvious you have been.
Hapster, get out and enjoy the great outdoors. I did today and caught a nice limit of walleye. Besides a big shiny boat, I also have a smaller, but just as shiny one. They both get lots of use. Keeps me out of the basement. LOL!
Typical Mikey. You make a dumb (OK, in this case really stupid) comment and then shoot the messenger. It is all there in black in white Mikey. You really hate it when you are wrong and people call you on it. You pull into attack mode then to try to save face. Not possible in this case. Deer numbers are at historic highs and historic means hundreds of years... You can't make this stuff up. Thanks for the chuckle Mikey.
"And, don't forget your meds, as it is obvious you have been. "
When you have no retort to your own stupid comment, you resort to an over played childish and very immature antic one sees often on the net. Well done Mikey. Suits your attacking and belittling style fine.
"Hapster, get out and enjoy the great outdoors. I did today and caught a nice limit of walleye. Besides a big shiny boat, I also have a smaller, but just as shiny one. They both get lots of use. Keeps me out of the basement."
Now you are bragging about your possessions again? Tell us more besides the boats. I wait with unabated enthusiasm. BTW, I believe I was outside more than you yesterday. You posted once early in the day and twice later. I posted in the am only and then went to my son's soccer tournament. You outposted me Mikey. What room in your massive mansion do you post from and does that matter?
Wi. should consider shutting down the season in Northen Wi. Its bad real bad. At one time there was a season every other year. I have been hunting up there since 1953 and its the poorest ever. Hard winters knocked them down and predators (hunters included) will keep them down.
And Mikey's partner chimes in as always. The master of ruining threads and being banned over and over and over. You two are birds of a feather and a perfect couple. A strange relationship indeed. Quite the tag team...
All good points Happy. You are spot on. And deer numbers are certainly not higher than ever. Anyone who would state such a thing is clearly out of touch.
I do think they should cancel the season in the North for two years.
I don't agree with total closure in the north but I would support a bucks only season like it was back in the 1960's. At risk of sounding like a jerk, I think bucks only should mean exactly that. No supplemental doe hunts. Period. I started deer hunting in the 60's it gave me the discipline to know my target. Perhaps the Native Americans should step up and agree to take bucks only in the ceded territory for a few years. They too must see a change in the numbers.
well if you think the herd is down now, hold on, because I believe shortly the tribes, are going to win in court, and they will be allowed to shoot deer at night........
"hold on, because I believe shortly the tribes, are going to win in court, and they will be allowed to shoot deer at night........"
Well of course, those poor downtrodden indians NEED to shoot at night to feed their families.
"Well of course, those poor downtrodden indians NEED to shoot at night to feed their families."
With the north at historic lows deer numbers wise, this surely won't help. We know the Indians won't care and look at the big picture. They are only pushing for this because they are still PO'ed about the wolf hunt (which better come back with much higher quotas).
Does need to be off everyone's agenda, youth hunters included.
Any hunter who harvests a deer is part of the immediate problem. Interesting how many do not like government involvement, until it BENEFITS them.
It is simple, take a year off and stop being a serial deer killer. You do not need to kill one or more EVERY YEAR. Need to stomp out the Bubba attitude, horn porn BS. Just give the deer a break, respect the resource.
if no deer are shot, If the season was closed, and you had another bad winter, with predation, what would you have saved, or accomplished?
I am just saying, I wonder what the DNR managers think, I mean you never see anything published on what the managers of deer, think should be done........
I think it is so weather related, we can only hope for mild winters to rebuild.....
as cheesehead has said, a lot of logging is being done, there is the habitat in many areas....
Habitat is the key. There are deer left in northern WI, and in general they'll be most abundant in young, dense habitat as well as where they can escape man/other predators (such as cities) and find year-round food.
I know FIP was trying to be clever but here's another true tale of a friend who doesn't feed up north. He's in a buck-only unit and would like the opportunity to harvest an antlerless deer on his well-managed forest but can't. He wrote that while reflagging his south boundary recently about 90 percent of the maple seedlings were browsed to death by whitetails. While I'm generally in favor of CDACs, I think it's impossible to try to effectively manage an entire county with a single management plan. And speaking for central farmland zones where many populations now exceed 70 deer/sq. deer habitat pre-fawn, there aren't enough tools left in the toolbox to knock back the herd. Maybe that's the future. It sure sounds Serbian in its appeal. Serb stated here a decade ago that we could support 100/deer sq. with no negative impact to forests, because his forests told him so. He was Doc Deer North, I guess.
"if no deer are shot, If the season was closed, and you had another bad winter, with predation, what would you have saved, or accomplished? "
Not having the herd get even worse. Each spared deer, does especially, would greatly matter to the rebound. What happens if you continue to allow the does to be shot within an already decimated herd and we have another harsh winter and the wolf hunt is still bagged? The situation becomes more dire.
