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Very neat! Thanks for passing the information on. Please keep us posted!

Although he hunts buffalo county, he said it is going to be endangered birds, that need young forest, that is going to save deer in the north...

he said the feds are big into this bird program to save certain species, and they are rethinking their forest practices, because of those birds....

There is also a 'Near Threatened' warbler in MI (Kirtlands) that relies on young Jackpine to nest. The fire suppression policies in the 19th century had the unexpected effect of creating a state with few young Jackpine and the Kirtlands became very rare.

A lot of species (game and non-game) benefit from wild places - even humans...

You practice at warbleros but the geochip tends to dull the blades. And where do they stick those geochips....and at a cost of 150 bucks a piece. Yikes.

"Their winter mature canopy in South America is being slashed and the mating/nesting sites in the midwest require young growth hardwoods/pines"

Although I completely agree WI fed lands are managed very poorly, it does sound like this is South American problem and probably should be posted on their forum. There are plenty of nesting spots in WI which are not Fed lands.

If this thread was to point out the problem with Feds managing lands, habitat, etc...of which, we all understand and previously pointed out. Why exactly are we using 75K in tax payer money to geochip birds to prove South America is slashing their woods(which we cannot control) and Fed lands are managed poorly(which we already know)?

Why not pocket the 75K, hire loggers to cut the trees and use the money to increase habitat(already done by logging) then hire bird people to fight the S American loggers?

Better yet, pocket the 75k, log and reduce taxes with the additional funds....and still better the habitat for all the warblers, grouse, deer, et al.

Any other ideas on the importance of this thread?

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe."

John Muir 1911

Rut, of course there is a sarcastic tone in my post. As you can see by my link, the warbler issue is being addressed and it more than likely is not going involve proper management of all Fed lands. Even if the libs listen to this little bird, the study of migration and nesting areas(which we already know) would take years to prove(what we already know)proper management is key. While these years pass on what we already know, these trees will age and their usefulness will diminish.

IMO, conducting a study which the outcome is to prove what is already known is unnecessary. Like fencing deer in a trillium plot to prove deer eat trillium or putting GPS transmitters on leaves to prove they drop in fall.

The Feds own 4.4% of WI. This is small compared to the other public and private lands. Linking this study to properly managing fed lands is a reach much like the topic of this thread to bow hunting. Nov is proud of his son(and he should be) but take the topic of the thread as it is....about his son.

But you could link the topic to bow hunters by discussing if PR funds were used to fund this study. My opinion would then be as previously stated, the money could have gone to a better cause i.e. education and young forest development.

“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”

P.J. O'Rourke 1991

"Scrub, a major factor dpsm is so low on state/national forest is lack of logging"

The major factor on low DPSM is the over issuance of tags back when deer were managed based on biological concerns of over browse and forest regeneration which the USFS was the primary supporter. USFS contradicts itself when they refuse to properly manage a forest and focus on over browse as the key issue. Properly managing a forest is key to create better habitat which will aid in an increase of DPSM.

I gotta agree with ^.

So again I ask, what is WBH doing in issues on USFS lands?

I PM'd you the Director who handles this. I'm stretched pretty thin to take up another issue. With your past experiences with the USFS, your knowledge would be an asset to the cause. You understand the situation and possible ways to bring change. As a WBH member, you have every opportunity to help or take the lead in directing WBH to help the cause. As a member, you are WBH too....you are no different than any director. In fact, I know the board would welcome it.

Sometimes you have to put your beverage down, step back and think about what you wrote, Nov.

There is a huge difference in studying migration of a species which is fairly a certain than actually stopping the spread of evasive species. IMO, it would be more beneficial to prevent the spread of these species than to geochip zebra mussels.

I don't know, maybe geochipping these birds is needed but knowing a major problem of their decline is nesting areas, I think it would be better to correct the known problem. IMO, the time and money would be better spent creating jack pines stands. $150 could purchase quite a few trees and recreate the lost habitat. But even if this was done, it would not put a dent in the small 4.4% of Federal lands in WI.

So what have we learned from this topic which is bow hunting related? This study(possibly)will impact management of Fed lands minimally, warbler's migration/nesting habits, appears Nov's has a good kid and warbleros are not a meaty bird.

Although not bowsite material, your thread started out pretty good for you. Of course, there would be some who would call you out on not being bow hunting related but you should have had thick enough skin and ignored it. Instead, you made a feeble attempt to link it to the management of federal lands along with attacking the intelligence and education of bow hunters. This was an unsolicited attack and caused this beat down to occur.

So your topic went from praising your son for geochipping warblers and federal land management to attacking people/orgs, education levels of individuals, mussels, Asian carp, career opportunities in TX and charter fishing. So in an attempt to bring this thread back on topic:

Congrats on your son's opportunity...he appears to be a good, smart kid. Save a Warbler, plant a jack pine. (Hmmm...I should patent that and make a bumper sticker;) )

Worse than that November. The absence of the biomass from the bottom up brought on by the zebra and quagga mussels. Stocking continues to be slashed. LM has the potential to be the next Lake Huron. The fishing south of Kewaunee last year was piss poor. Expect the same this year. The Feds want the lake brought back to its original state with Lake Trout (gagger). That is why the Lake Trout plants could not be reduced when the DNR(s) decided on Salmon reductions. The Feds ruled there. Asian carp are much adieu over nothing when it comes to LM. They would not thrive there, only in the tributaries.

There is some very nice diversity in this thread.

Most of northern WIS and the UP had the largest stand of white pine in the world....not much new growth around there. The southern part of WIS was prairie with oak groves here and there. So that would leave a narrow strip of land between the two for Warbler habitat along with the deer range as tribes would travel from vast distances to hunt the Black River Falls area for venison.

I know for a fact that state land is on a 25 year program with logging planned out for that amount of time. The FEDS play by their rules.

After reviewing MI DNR site:

"Historically, the jack pine barrens were maintained by naturally occurring wildfires that swept through the region. The jack pine held little value for the lumbermen who came in search of white pine. Once logging activity ended in the 1880's, the continuing forest fires helped increase the range of jack pine, which created more nesting habitat. As a result, the Kirtland's warbler population reached its peak between 1885 and 1900."

Maybe the warbler was populated over the biological carrying capacity since the early 1900's. Once this population boom occurred, maybe we should have managed the warbleros for biological and social concerns with liberal seasons and quotas, establishing low overwinter goals to insure a healthy population;)

It is big time dollars that have allowed the Great Lakes to become over run with exotic species. Had the Feds worried more about the health of the lakes as compared to the health of the lobbyists, steps would have been implemented to stop the introduction of exotic invaders.

As far as students "smoking" my IQ, I have a feeling it would be much better for them than the things they do smoke. The bottom-feeders are many of the ones who teach these "smoking" students.

If you choose to reply, use the spell checker. No one here needs to devote hours deciphering whatever you are attempting to say.

I have sent emails and letters to WBH and Feds over the years and if I can work with WBH more I will do so; part of the solution. It is not easy to work with the Feds as most of you know.

RGS has sent their message many times over the years when commenting on EAs and the FS choose to ignore the input. Now RGS is moving ahead with petition and maybe soon a lawsuit. I hope the FS acts before it goes to a suit. This thread and post cover two threads but are related.

Study of one species usually benefits many other species.

True Smokey but I am willing to bet not as much older growth now compared to the 1800's. I would bet we have more new growth area's in WIS today.

That does describe Lake Michigan fishing to a "T". It really is boring stuff. I could only handle a few hours at a time without getting bored. I rarely ever reeled in a fish on my boat because they hook themselves - Who is up next - that is not fishing - that is catching. Most fun is for sure creating the daily program and then adjusting on the fly. And now with the greasers taking over, it is getting worse fun wise. I recently sold my 29' boat. Sticking with the smaller one for Muskies now (100% casting), my true passion. We do take lots of trips locally on Bago for Perch and Eyes but all jigging there. Trolling for Eyes is even more mindless than trolling for Salmon - at least Salmon are a tussle when caught trolling.

Carry on guys. Again, love the switch in venue and the diversity this thread brings.

Ahhh, Happy...... although I enjoy trolling on the big lake, my fishing passion is Musky. I was telling my 9 yr old yesterday about musky fishing with my dad and showed him some pictures. This morning we set off the shore for walleye and my first fish was a 24" musky on my ultralite. You should have seen his eyes.

Eat perch.....fish musky;)

ZING! LOL

Here is one my son got last September up in Three Lakes at our place there. I was weaned fishing the chain for Esox and my son is a casting addict. He is so dilegent at releasing these majestic fish quickly. I sure taught this kid well. That fish was beat to all heck and obviously has survived a release or two. My son released it fine for someone else to catch (or the indians to spear).

I'm sure the people in your pic enjoyed their fish dinners. My dad was old school and naive and used to keep Muskies too. He went back to the days of gaffing them versus netting them. I was VERY happy when he quit fishing them! He used to get very PO'ed at me when I refused to bring him one to eat. He got plenty of other fish from me to eat. It doesn't matter to me what other people do though as long as it is legal - right Ronny ;).

Had an awesome dinner tonight of whitefish and burbot from the hard water season from Sturgeon Bay. My son is an addict on the hard water too. I am truly blessed. The pic is my son's biggest eelpout/burbot/lawyer of the season. Man they are awesome to eat - poor man's lobster. I love it when they roam the deep water late ice. Nice addition to catching all the whitefish.

Fishing talk here is fun!