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I just don't think that many youth tags got filled by party hunters. Of the 3 up north camps I know who had youth tags, 2 were filled before the 9 day, and one was filled during ML. All by the tag holder.

Maybe I'm naive, or maybe I run in the "wrong" crowd.......I can't imagine filling the only doe tag in camp when it belongs to a youth. Who does tat?

When I was 12, the party permit was mine and it took me 5 days to fill it. With a huge old doe. Happiest hunter on the planet ! Wouldn't have had that chance if one of my uncles had pulled the trigger.

I agree with removing group hunting from youth antlerless tags.

You guys can fight over removing opportunities for youth, handicap and military hunters.

IMO, the small amount of antlerless taken(after the group bagging deal) is insignificant. The decision to pull the trigger is still up to the youth, handicap or military hunter...in which the mentor is always the influence for the youth hunter. Personally, I don't like the idea of taking away that opportunity for those three groups.

The doe/fawn kill up north last year on those tags was about one per four square miles, hardly significant in the grand scheme of things. One of my friends in a buck-only county has well-managed private land habitat, and he's already complaining that he can't target baldies again this year. He estimates that about 90 percent of his young maples were destroyed by deer in the past year. This guy does not feed or plant food plots. He just has a well-managed forest that needs deer trimmed. Once again, it boils down to habitat. One size county deer management does not fit all. Guess he needs some youth hunters to help out!

Exactly what Dmap was designed for.He can signup and achieve his goals.

But, if this is what is causing the lack of deer in the northwoods don't complain that you aren't seeing any deer.

We can complain all year long on the causes of what is the reason behind the lack of deer on this forum, but it won't do any good unless you act upon that problem. Pick up the phone, use you emails to your elected officials, make your voice be heard. I am thinking very few if any of our elected officials are reading these posts here.

I have no problem with disabled people shooting any legal animal anywhere it is legal. I have a problem with any youth tags being filled by party hunting. Actually, I have a problem with all party hunting. But hey, that's my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

IMO - Disabled veterans should have a free ticket to everything if they so desire to use it.

If you fill your tags and want to keep hunting go out and buy more antlerless tags and fill them. With the liberal tags in the farmland zones there is no reason to be out in the woods without a tag issued in you own name. If it's all about the $12 bonus tag, I don't believe that the $12 is going to make or break anyone if they save up the money and use it specifically for those deer tags.

If you can't afford the $12 for an extra tag work a little harder and save a little more over the year so you can have some venison for the crock pot.

I have no problem with hunters shooting a deer, using their OWN tag and sharing in the bounty. That's what it's all about. We give a lot of venison away to those who can use it, but aren't as lucky or as fortunate when it comes to harvesting deer. Yes, we have it good, but it comes with a price. Hard work, sweat equity and a lot of hard earned money make the land we have our hunting paradise. That's what we do, it's who we are and how we like to spend our time and money.

As far as Vets and disabled hunters, yes they are 2 separate categories(but a person could fall into both categories) and I believe that they should be issued tags if they so desire to use it. But additional tags would cost the same for everyone across the board, $12 each.

Not to pick at you, Mike, but is that basically group bagging? What really is the difference if I purchase 3 antlerless tags, fill them and give the deer away or if I fill another hunters tag as long as I'm group hunting following the laws?

Also, deer hunting has different meaning to different people. Some hunters are happy waiting 10 yrs for the 200" buck while others only care about a tasty deer for the freezer. Some want a secluded area to call their own while others like the hunting together on deer drives.

Sorry to bring it up but there are a large group of hunters that do deer drives. To them, it is the way they like to hunt and is a large part of group bagging.

In a perfect world, everyone would hunt like YOU(not point at you, Mike). Even with the god forsaken methods of group bagging, deer drives, baiting, Mathews shooters, etc.... we still average a success rate of about 33%. In the short term, if we removed these methods, it might be great. Long term, not so much. In the long term, it will lead to additional loss of hunters and over population. Sorry, but the way you hunt might not be viewed as great as you think by others. Party hunters may think you are the rich jackwagon that hoards all the deer.

I'm fine with any method a hunter chooses as long as that method follows the law. Although group bagging of a youth tag might not have been "illegal" per se, it was definitely outside the scope of the tag being issued. It was recognized and is being addressed by the legislature.

I understand numbers in the north are very low. This didn't happen over one harsh winter, it took many years to accomplish. If you asked(I have) a prior deer biologist, which some call Mr Whitetail, deer should be managed to 6-8 DPSM in the north woods and that probably what you have now. But the population will rebound.

IMO, a few thousand antlerless shot legally by youth, handicapped and military would be peanuts compared to what the 150K+ hunters in the area could do. How many of those hunters are out shooting coyote, fight for wolf harvests or actually improving the habitat?

It's ironic how we care more about what others are doing rather than what we could be doing.

November, agree the north and ag lands are two different worlds. Am not saying they're not. Am saying that without group bagging in ag country, a lot fewer deer would be killed, and that's not a good thing in overpopulated sections.

But there is a difference once your talking about a buck. Then group bagging allows the opportunity for someone to shoot "my buck" after he shoots his then uses his buddy's tag on it;) All legal but stings the same.

People should just be honest. It's not about group bagging doe...or special season youth hunt doe harvest....or other special hunt doe harvest.... crossbow doe kills.....state wide rifle vs. shotgun doe kills... or doe shot over bait piles/deer driving doe kills, etc... It's the additional opportunity for someone else shooting "my buck". This is the main reason for all the fuss.

Personally, I believe an individual who shoot one or multiple deer and donates them to a food pantry is not a true hunter. He/she enjoys the sport of killing for no reason than the kill.

We have most of these laws for decades and as Naz always states.....WI is #1 in record book bucks. It just might not be your name in the book.

Leave the youth, disabled and military out of your complaints.

Thing is, Mike F did not say he gave the entire deer away. He said "We give a lot of venison away to those who can use it, but aren't as lucky or as fortunate when it comes to harvesting deer". That is as much group bagging as me having a party at my house serving my guests venison stew, chili, and sausage.

"Personally, I believe an individual who shoot one or multiple deer and donates them to a food pantry is not a true hunter."

Yikes on that comment although I have never donated a whole deer. I have fished out of my own boats on Lake Michigan since 1985. I enjoyed the setup and seeing others catch fish. I hate the taste of Salmon and therefore donated everyone I have kept to the local food pantry, friends, relatives, and neighbors. Does that mean I am not a true fisherman? Now there is the guy that loves to bowhunt. He scouts, practices, etc, but he just doesn't care for the taste of venison. Does that mean he should never hunt deer and if he does kill one he's not a true hunter? What about those who kill a bobcat or a wolf just to mount it? They are not true hunters because they did not consume what they killed? Please show me the definition of true hunter so everyone can know where they stand.

http://www.fhfh.org

http://www.huntforthehungry.com

No different than the game hog, oops group hunters using the excuse that it keeps them out hunting. What they really should say, is it keeps them out buck hunting. If they truly wanted to do it to keep hunting, make it antlerless only. Then you would see a huge drop in group slaughtering.

Give them the money you spend on the tag or more instead.

Wounded Vets - free ride/no cost deer tags

Military - reduced price deer tags

Youth - no way

Disabled - Nothing against truly disabled people. But it is a gray area...had a lot of "disabled" people buying crossbow at Gander when I worked there that joked about how they got the disability passed. They was nothing wrong with them.

"Man I don't want to cut up another deer but I should cause it has been hanging for awhile is some warm weather" ... "I know, I will donate"...

We had one rule, each of us tagged only the deer, we would shoot. We were serious buck hunters, and Bayfield Co around Star Lake was our grounds.

We started out a 5am, and we cut country all day, never worried about where we would end up, we just tracked and hunted all day......

We were in such fine tune with each other, even as hours went by, we would continue to keep tabs on each other, no radios, no cell phones back than, just knowing the land.....

I know that this might be foreign to someone like Novemberforever, but hunters actually hunted like this in one time in our history........

We shot some nice bucks, and I mean some nice bucks

Nothing wrong with party hunting, just depends on how it is done, and many do it with high ethics.....

I know a few young man, that now track all day in the vast expanse of the Ottawa National Forest and the Sylvania Wilderness area, and they get one nice buck a year......

Not everyone hunts on a stand, or on a farm, or over bait, there are still some trackers left, and its all good..............

Razor, would love to have something close to home where I could go out and track for miles. The romance of the big woods country is appealing. That "go where you want" is what I enjoyed most when I hunted Montana, Wyoming and Arizona decades ago.

Northern Minnesota, Ontario, WUP, and some areas in Wis is the place for it

I have hunted all of it,

I can tell you less and less hunters in the north, and during ML season, you can track all day, in many areas of Forest and Florence Co

Statewide Dec.4 Antlerless hunt, again WTF?

The money is much more important to some than the welfare of the herd.

10, no bonus sales in the 13 counties and only use of antlerless by youth, disabled or vets (and legislature should have a rule in place to stop the group hunting loophole for the youth tags). After that, it's education. But like many here know, there are some properties up north that could use a little thinning. Deer aren't spread equally and never will be.

2 hunters, Bob and Jim go to the woods with 1 unused buck tag. Bob has already tagged out. Jim says, "If you see a decent buck go ahead and shoot it. I need to work the rest of the season and would like to have some venison in the freezer."

Bob see's a nice buck shoots it. Jim walks over, validates his tag, tags it, they field dress it and take it to Jim's home.

That is a simple, straight forward definition of group bagging.

Now, what we do is totally different. We all fill our own tags. All of the deer are butchered wrapped and frozen by us. After the end of the season we take some of the venison and deliver it to those who enjoy it, but are not able to hunt any more.

Do we give the entire deer away? No. I have been asked but I won't do that. If an able bodied person who can physically get out into the woods and hunt wants a deer, go out and purchase a license and all of the equipment needed to do so. I am not into giving out handouts. Just a little help to those who we believe deserve help.

The one person that comes to mind is our Pastor at church. Early last fall he fell while setting up his stand. He was not able to go out and hunt because of a broken shoulder. We took a grocery bag over and the family truly enjoyed it.

Do I agree with dropping off deer at a processor to be processed and donated to the local food pantry. No, I do not. I have spent time working at a local food pantry and I believe the people that need the food the most aren't the one's that show up on a regular basis. The ones that do are the lazy lowlife people that we all know about. The one's that really could use a hand up are too embarrassed of proud to ask for help.

Just my 2 cents...

Careful Mike, you might earn a Naz "One of the most incredibly naïve comments of the year" awards. Then again, you said it so it probably is understandable and appropriate for you to have your own opinion. Several on here chose to complain about RC consistently for attacking others yet they search out things to attack on a few.

But unlike you, I'm not entitled to an opinion. If I were able to have an opinion, I would agree with you on the way you donate your extra venison.

IMO(if I was allowed to have one), I do not like an individual who purchases extra tags, goes out and fills them then donating the deer. Except in extreme over populated area, my reasoning is this:

If a hunter harvest a buck for trophy reasons, capes it out and donates the venison because he doesn't like it....he is a trophy hunter and I really don't have a problem. They are only a few hunters like this.

If a hunter fills his buck tag and then proceeds to fill as many antlerless tags he/she can, does not like venison and donates it. He is not a hunter but a killer. If the rationale is he enjoys the outdoors, he has every opportunity to do so without harvesting an animal(take pictures or whatever). When he/she pulls the trigger, the only reason is for the kill as he/she has no intention to use the resource.

So how naïve is it to have an opinion which one should only harvest what a hunter needs? Some say group bagging is so terrible because of the slob hunters overharvesting deer but defend shooting more than is needed and donating it. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

Wolf, bobcat and other predators are hunted for trophy or management purposes.

Salmon fishing is not an appropriate comparison. You always have the opportunity to catch and release a fish. You can't fix dead. But if the salmon population was very low(as many claim for deer) and you continued to catch salmon and give them away rather than release, I guess I would feel you are not caring about the resource.

Of course, all the individuals who donate their deer to food pantries do it out of the kindness of their heart along with a % of their HHLD income to feed the poor. Even if they realize the cost is relatively the same a ground beef but less quality.

This would be my opinion if I could have one.

"What the heck, doe permits being issued for Washburn county? Not supported by what we saw where we hunted there last year. At least there will only be 825 permits for public land."

So Jeff and other who are unhappy about this..... How would you feel if half of these tags were purchased by hunter who fill them and donate the meat?

Bingo!!!!! Nice Mike.

Naz I mean no disrespect but that is spot on. I dont know where Mike worked one either but have seen it at the ones I have been at.

Again... there would be zero donations if the deer had to be processed to donate. Nobody ... well maybe a few would but we all know what the venison donations really are. I dont want to cut up another one etc etc etc

"It's ironic how we care more about what others are doing rather than what we could be doing."

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Of course there are those who abuse the food pantry system, but many more here don't. There's a true need for a helping hand, if abundant farm country whitetails are among the items donated, why should you care? Not only is it a worthy program, it's a feather in the cap of hunters in the eye of the majority — the non-hunting public.

"Now there is the guy that loves to bowhunt. He scouts, practices, etc, but he just doesn't care for the taste of venison. Does that mean he should never hunt deer?"

Not on Bowsite, especially if you are a member or director of WBH.

Although, I do not like the hunter who shoots for the sake of killing and not using the resource...I do not have any issue with the donation program. They are two different subjects.

I do not like the guy who feels it is necessary to fill 3 antlerless tags and donates them. I disagree with the guy who shoots one and donates it. Yet, I agree with the program because it serves a purpose but is funded with the guys I disagree with.

Just because I dislike something, doesn't mean I'm losing sleep over it. Unlike the guy who has a fit over the neighbor who shot a scrub buck or hunts over a pile of corn.

It's just how I was raised...Don't shoot what you are not going to eat. It's my opinion.

Obviously you are attempting to paint me into a corner but I'll bite, although I explained myself completely...

First, I'm respresenting my opinion on likes and dislikes.

Second, how does your friend hunt? Does he hunt for a trophy( I previously acknowledged) or does he fill tags although he doesn't like venison? I dislike(opinion) the later. He could shoot his bow, scout, take pictures and enjoy but the key is he enjoys killing a resource he has no use for.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean my opinion of dislike, is right or wrong....it is his choice when he purchases a license.

I love Musky fishing. Size limits are in place to insure trophy fish. I've kept one fish my entire life and released all others. Do I have a problem with the fisherman/woman who keeps a legal musky for food....no. It is legal. Do I have a problem with a fisherperson who keeps evey legal Musky, hates to eat them and donates them to a food pantry...yes. Opinion= dislike. Legal...yes.

Question for you.....although it is legal and the fisherman/woman has the right to keep all legal Musky, what is your opinion? Would they fish out of your boat? Do you consider him/her a Musky fisherperson? They fish Musky so I'd imagine you'd take them out fishing.

"Question for you.....although it is legal and the fisherman/woman has the right to keep all legal Musky, what is your opinion? Would they fish out of your boat? Do you consider him/her a Musky fisherperson? They fish Musky so I'd imagine you'd take them out fishing."

I feel like you do, if the person wants to keep a legal fish, that is their option. I would personally never keep one and it churns my stomach to see people keep them, but it is their choice. Yes, I consider anyone who fishes Muskies to be a Musky fisherperson regardless of whether they keep them or release them.

I would NEVER take anyone Musky fishing with me if their intent was to kill a Musky. My boat, my rules. My rule on Lake Michigan was that my guests kept all the fish because I don't like trout and salmon. It would make me sick to my stomach to see a Musky killed for eating. I wish all lakes had a size limit over 50". I have killed 2 Muskies in my life and have boated well over 200, probably closer to 300. My first legal (32" when the limit was 30") came when I was 8 years old. My parents mounted it for me. I also kept a 43" when I was in my young teens, but not by choice. It was because the fish had the hook very deep and I did not have the right tools. I tried like heck to release it, but it died. I therefore kept it and mounted it.

My Dad was old school and kept Muskies. He was a great Musky fisherman in his time and in his time, they kept those majestic fish. I was very glad when he quit fishing them due to health reasons. He used to ask me to keep one for him and I flat out told him HELL NO. I gave him plenty of other fish like Crappies and Eyes to eat.

When my son got a 40" Pike on his first ever trip to Canada, he released it and I got him a replica made. He too is very diligent about releasing big fish. I love that boy.

Again you show your ignorance.

There is nothing wrong or any group bagging in effect when a group of hunters do a drive so a fellow hunter can fill his tag.

Group bagging means others shoot the deer to fill another hunters tag.

Not shooting a bunch of deer and then deciding who is going to tag what deer after they are dead. That is group bagging.

PS - Don't be a suck-up....

No surprise here - the tags for the youth, yep those same tags everyone has commented as so insignificant in the grand scheme....should never stop becoming available to our kids.

I don't have any children in that age range any longer - but I have a whole Hunter Safety Class to choose from this fall.

Just because you personal cannot make a hunting connection in the woods with kids should not prevent others from doing so.

As hunter recruitment in this State fades away - this is one tool to help introduce young people to the sport.

Our Veterans and our disabled have at it. Our military have earned it and a disability - a true disability should allow that hunter the privilege.

Pasq - here's an idea...now go spend that twenty bucks on the neighbor kids!

Anybody have a 20 = whereabouts

Where's your 20??

I was in the bear woods earlier, now at my desk....LOL

We still use the CB's when we go to Canada. A pretty good tool in it's day.

I got a copy of the Patron Press with the new issue of the magazine too.

Pretty informative and to the point.