Deer tales across the state
Wisconsin
Wrapping up a "fall deer preview" this afternoon and have interviewed DNR and reviewed enough stats and regs to make my head spin.
Many have already seen this, as it's been available for quite a while, but am posting a link to 2014 bow, crossbow and firearm deer harvest stats again.
After this mostly-mild winter, the bow opportunities in farm country, esp., should be outstanding. Antler growth typically is very good with less stress on the animals, too.
The wild card remains how many archers will move to the crossbow? If you notice in the harvest, the x-bow seems to have been by far most popular (as a percentage of kill vs. bow) in the northern region. Any thoughts as to why that might have been?
I think the truth is coming out in the numbers of people that are using crossbows. No one ever knew for sure how many were out there. We had an idea, but not any hard numbers.
As far as higher crossbow numbers in the northern region I would have to think those numbers are coming from hunters who live in those areas and maybe more "cabin hunters" not having to use rifles.
Just a thought.....
Should be another good year with the mild winter.
The high number of crossbow "hunters" is plain and simple. It's easier, there were a LOT of people that wanted to hunt the archery season. But didn't want to put in the work with a real bow. Now the majority of those "hunters" can do as they do with their rifles, sight it and forget it.
I don't own a crossbow and never plan to. Don't want to sidetrack the thread — I'm more interested in your thoughts on deer populations in your area and why more crossbows were apparently used up north — but I don't "work" hard with a real bow. Today's compounds are easy to sight in, easy to hold and honestly, once sighted in, an experienced archer (and maybe even an amateur) could take a shot or two before heading out and have full confidence in arrow placement. It's not like the old days (high school) where I could actually see the arrow rise and fall on a longer shot with a recurve. It's not even like the days long gone where I used to shoot in a league to keep the eye sharp, or even when I went out to 3-D courses pre-season to tune up. With experience, a sighted-in bow is a pretty easy thing for a healthy hunter to use.
In the north, xbow shooters are popping them out the cabin window while sitting on the throne as they hit the bait pile in the back yard. No noise, no detection.
Not trying to side track here Naz, but I will address a few things you have mentioned. As far as more crossbows up north, I would bet it coincides with baiting. I very well could be wrong, but I doubt it. There is a mindset of many in the north that it's so hard to kill deer up there. So many justify any legal or illegal means. Yes it is tougher hunting up north, but it's not impossible without bait or crossbows.
As far as not needing to practice much with modern archery gear. I strongly disagree. It's that type of thinking that brings about the many "I hit a deer and can't find it" threads on forums every fall. Granted we all have a bad shot now and then. Now I don't think it's a must for people to shoot 5 to 7 days a as I do. But I think at least once every couple of weeks is a minimum to keep yourself and your equipment in top form.
Rut, was wondering too if the north had an older overall age for hunters? I mean, I know it's all ages everywhere, but could it be that the average is older up there? For example, the majority of "up north cottage" owners I know from my neck of the woods are 50+, with many 60-70+.
I agree that practice is important, esp. for those who haven't mastered the mechanics. But if a person is in good shape and experienced, he or she can pick up a modern compound and be shooting "pie plates" every shot at reasonable distances within minutes; then, as long as the sight isn't knocked out of line, can expect to drill the target on the first shot the next time they pick up the bow. It's my opinion that wounded/lost deer are more often the result of poor choices such as rushing a shot or taking a high-risk shot (through brush, too far, deer on alert staring at you and about to bolt, etc.) than not enough practice. But I agree with you that the perception of which is easier may be playing a role in the turnover.
Naz, I agree it doesn't take much to be pie plate accurate. For myself and my kids and buddies that hunt with me. Pie plate accurate at 20 yards is not good enough. The only reason being, I feel if you can shoot 2" groups at 20yards at home on a target. There is less of a chance you will crumble when the pressure is on when hunting. I have also seen the opposite, people that can't shoot a target worth a darn. But rarely put a bad shot on a deer/game.
I think pressure of the moment affects a lot of people. I have a buddy that works at a Gander Mountain. They administer the proficiency test for the Twin Cities Metro hunt. All they have to do is put 3 out of 5 arrows in a pie plate area at 15 yards. He said the majority fail the first time. Even the crossbow guys, as most refuse to shoot sitting with a rest, even though they could. Pressure whether it be "buck fever" or people watching can affect the best shot. That's where imo practice comes in. As the muscle memory and ingrained shot sequence will help.
Agree pie plates isn't good enough overall. What I meant was, if I can drill the vitals on my foam deer the first shot (and I can, after initial sighting in), I know nothing has changed and the only reason to keep shooting is for the enjoyment of it. The reason I only shoot one arrow many times before heading out is because it's that pressure you mentioned: you only get one shot (most of the time) with bow, so make it count. I try to train myself to think that way. On the other hand, if kids (mine and/or others) are involved in summer, well then I'll shoot as much as they want me to, or just assist them with the stick and string bows or the kids-size Mathews training bow.
IMO I think there are far more gun hunters up north as it is "tougher" to hunt. Not trying to start a fight but the crossbow and gun have similarities that allow a person who strictly gun hunted to feel comfortable with a stock in their shoulder.
7 guys where I bow hunt in Antigo are using a crossbow now. 5 of them used compounds before and switched. All over the age of 50.
Guys, they use crossbows because it is the easiest way to kill a deer in archery season, same reason most choose inlines over the Hawken, and compounds over stickbows.
Like in Michigan, crossbows will very quickly be the norm all over the state, it is not a northwoods thing.
Bowhunting is in serious decline, and will continue until only a small minority actually hunt with a bow, hopefully a stickbow.
Are you going to remain a bowhunter?
Yes Ron, I'll remain a bowhunter.
crossbow are bullshit, and except for the truly disabled, the rest of you are just lazy... oh my arm hurts, or I have this or that..... makes me sick/////
crossbow mentality, hey lets just kill everything....
northern deer herd is in bad shape..... just got back from the western UP, where its even worse.....
don't get me wrong, still a lot of bucks that will die of old age in them swamps, and I at least have a crack at them.....
but the bait pilers with their crossbows will do a good job on the young bucks, coming into their spots,
between this mentality, and everything else, deer have not much of a chance......
And the same can be said for modern high let off compounds. We lost it boys when compounds came on the market. So be it, life goes on.
Guys please ignore Dune and sawtooth, these are both just Ronnie under alias's. Maybe if we just ignore the fool and don't respond to him he will go away on his own.
Why did the WBH vote for full inclusion of crossbows into the archery season, yet fail to endorse the concept and admit crossbow hunters into their organization? What are the current thoughts on this, any changes coming?
Should changes be on the horizon? How will the WBH sustain membership in the face of declining bowhunter numbers? Or, isn't the WBH concerned because crossbows are mainly an "up north thing" and therefore will not affect WBH membership much? Are there any business minds on this board who may have insight?
Crossgunners are not bowhunters, so no they should not be admitted into the WBH.
Would the contention with crossbows go away if there were more deer? Were there less bowhunters than normal to make the crossbow numbers be larger?
"Crossgunners are not bowhunters, so no they should not be admitted into the WBH."
That would make for an interesting enforcement mechanism for a membership organization. Pray tell - who would WBH accomplish this?
Presuming it could be enforced then by extension WBH would have to exclude those who also hunt with a firearm.
As I see it enforcement is a non issue as many WBH members are already gun hunters. As far as the number of them that use crossbows I don't have any idea.
Why would crossbow hunters not be allowed to be members of the WBH?
It's a separate license and if a member chooses to use that tool to fill his tag it's legal.
The only thing is that the WBH does not recognize any harvest unless it is harvested with a legal bow and arrow, not a crossbow, rifle, shotgun or pistol.
RJN and Razorhead,
I really think the Wisconsin Bowhunter Association (WBA) should be more inclusive with its membership and stop alienating people with disperate views. With an increase in membership the WBA would be more politically potent and financially sound. If the WBH membership was more tolerant and accepting of divergent views it would not turn so many potential members off to the possibility of joining. Just my opinion.
Big G-
Not to start anything, but-
How does the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association (WBH) alienate people?
They allow anyone who is willing to pay a membership join. There is nothing in the bylaws that states you can not use a gun, rifle, pistol, crossbow or any other legal weapon during the legal season for that weapon.
There are plenty of members, some life members that use many different weapons throughout the course of the year to hunt with.
Please explain further.
Thanks
Mike F - Kudos to you. It is rare to see a WBH member actually engage someone in civil conversation without attacking and belittling them for their opinion. You are one a kind in these parts.
Big G, assuming, that an organization had the support of all different types of people with different views, whose politics would they represent? What issues would they fight for or against? Would that really make them more politically potent?
Karma will bite the shops that are really pushing the crossbow. Regular archers are repeat customers, and that's what an archery shop needs to survive. The majority of the crossbow "hunters" are a buy it and forget it type. Unless something breaks, they will be very sporadic customers at best.
I think the big box stores are selling far more of them than the specialty archery shops. They don't need to be tuned and most come with the needed accessories so there is no special knowledge needed to either sell one or to use one.
All four of the pro shops I go to on a regular basis were selling crossbows like crazy last year. I've only talked to 2 of those same places lately. But they said it's still crossbows 3 to 1 easily over real bows.
Rut, I don't doubt they are all selling them. That is simply an indication of the huge number of people who are purchasing them. No setup, no practice, they are undoubtedly bringing many people into the archery season who previously were unwilling to spend the time to learn to shoot and practice with a vertical bow.
The owner of the pro shop where I have purchased my bows informed me that crossbow sales have been very good. They've trailed-off a bit but many of their vertical bow customers are buying them to add to their repertoire.
He also added that you only get about 200 shots out of a crossbow string before it needs to be replaced.
Capt. and it will be interesting to see if incidents spike over the next couple of years. My guess is hunter accidents are going to go up.
10, I don't really know what will happen but I guess time will tell.
