Trespassing question?
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
The majority of us have had to deal with trespassers. If you are like me, the story you here from local LE is that these people have to be caught in the act. Pictures of them on your land, video of the same, and even plate numbers and vehicle id's does nothing. So my question for those that are in the know. Specifically Bloodtrail who is a LEO, and Razorhead who I believe is a retired leo. Can I legally detain a trespasser until the county officer arrives? I would do so respectfully, and civilly and of course cause them no harm. But if I were to block my woods access road so they couldn't get their vehicle out. Would I be in the wrong? It's kind of hard to catch them in the act. If I can not stop them from leaving.
IDK.. when I caught people a few years ago.. all I did was call their back tag number in and let the law do its job.. When I did I was asked a few ? S... Is this their first time?? We're they understanding?? And if I wanted a written warning or a fine issued... on both cases I chose the fine.. and in a few weeks their names were in the paper with the fine..in police reports.. I do not believe you need to retain them to have the laws enforced.. but i could be mistaken as my vases were a few years ago.
Rut,
IMO, you have the right to press criminal charges and an the LE should issue the citation, especially if you have evidence. The individual who receives the citation has the right to a trial/hearing in which he/she is innocent until proven guilty.
Think of situations where one individual contacts LE and complains harassment by another. The plaintiff has phone records of calls, the LE will review the complaint with both parties and make the decision to issue a citation. Photos, witnesses and other evidence will build your case. Next time you know of a trespasser is on your property, have an uninterested witness observe the trespasser and/or take photos. IMO, the officer will have enough evidence to issue a citation.
IMO, the absolute last thing(actually never) is try to detain an individual. Tempers may flare and you could be held liable civilly or criminally for injuries or your actions.
If you can block you woods access road, why not put up a gate?
People will do reactionary things in desperation or "cornered".
I think some guy got charged with false imprisonment when he blocked a trespasser's vehicle with his dozer. I'll see if I can find the story. I'm pretty sure that it was not in WI. I remember it because it struck me as ridiculous.
Can't find it. I remember the story, but can't say for sure it wasn't "urban legend".
I have caught trespassers and called the authorities. I did not block the drive way and they were not in their vehicle when I called the authorities. Then we waited for them to come out of the woods and the trespasser was issued a citation. I was told that the deputy will not enter to try and find them.
BTW I do open carry on our private land.
Rut cornering is a bad idea especially with conceal carry. Don't give someone even the slightest notion of a threat. Remember what happened in NW Wisconsin with Vang! IMO you would be asking for a bad situation. I agree, get their back tag numbers and let the law handle it. Too many nuts running around. No deer is worth taking a bullet over.
If it were me I would call the cops and tell them there's a vehicle on my land with four flat tires and I want it removed immediately as it's blocking my access. On top of that I think the vehicle is stolen, just has that appearance..
I am also a leo. I wouldnt advise detaining them. Get the plate, pics or vin and call your local agency. Please be sure they are trespassing (know the criteria needed to charge). Dont expect them to get hauled away in cuffs but a fine is likely if you push for it over a verbal warning.
You can also tow their vehicle but the tow bill would be your responsibility
I once warned some guys hunting nearby about trespassing. .it was right after I turned ed in the other guys... I told them I read their back tag numbers with my scope...I wouldnt really do that... but they don't know that... never had a issue with them ever......
Someone who trespasses will certainly break other laws , including getting even with you . No to any showdowns with strangers . you may be dealing with a top 10 wanted person or a real nut job .
Just to let everyone know, I was in no way planning to threaten anyone or physically detain them. I am just tired of being told there is nothing that can be done if they don't catch the people in the act. So I thought if I were to park them in, perhaps we could catch the d.bags.
Rut, I don't think anyone was thinking you would be the aggressor, just expressing concern that a fellow hunter doesn't get caught in a dangerous situation.
Personally, I've had it with trespassers, trying to reason with them and verbal warnings. If I catch them again whether in person or on camera the cops will be called.
This photo and at least a dozen more all over my property were taken less than an hour after a conversation with the "weekend" neighbors telling them I do not want them riding ATV's on my property.
Some people have no respect. I've also had 2 cameras stolen on one of the trails they ride.
Well Mike, what did you do about this situation?
A nice trail after multiple trips.
I went over and had a discussion with them about it and told them that it ends NOW.
When I had the discussion with them earlier in the day it was because their dogs were running all over my property barking and chasing things. I asked them to please control their dogs and what if I was trying to turkey hunt?
Later that day I saw the tracks and checked my cameras. I immediately went and talked to the parents (again) and showed them the photos. They said the kids were looking for the dogs again and that they went really slow so they didn't scare any turkeys (seriously?!). I was dumbfounded and told them that I said specifically that I did not want ATV's on my property and they blatently disregarded it.
I have no problem with someone simply parking near a vehicle near another. It was a parked vehicle with no occupants. Parking it in is not restricting the occupants movements.
I do fear when they arrive back to leave they realize the error in their thinking and the situation puts you and your property in harms way. I hope this helps.
Apparently they think my property is their own private playground!
Mike, I'm not condoning anything that would hurt any of the people trespassing on your land but I would have a couple strategically placed and hidden spike strips to puncture their tires. driving home on 4 flats and having to buy new tires might change their minds.
Zinger +10 it works but do it close to the property line so they don't drive over your conservation plot to many times.
Ya but their dogs could step on one of those spikes. The owners of the dogs may be clueless but it isn't the dogs fault that they are allowed to run.
Mike that sucks, but seriously.. hot chicks in yoga pants on atvs?!?
Holy Crap! If I had them on camera like that I would take those pictures to my attorney and press charges. No if's and's or butts. Destroying your food plot, riding around on your property.
Draw up a cease and desist letter stating that if their images show up on your cameras again you will press criminal trespassing charges against all parties pictured.
That really sucks big time!
Good idea, if they do it again charges get filed on previous, current, and future trespassing. A way to kind of let it go once but not totally because of the condition.
I always wondered what extra bite a criminal trespass sign has over a plain old no trespassing sign, versus no sign at all. Anyone know?
Believe it or not I try to be a nice guy most of the time. I'm trying to get along with the neighbors (they're only around on some weekends) and not be a jerk but I think they got the message this time and it won't happen again. If it does, things will be different and I have all of my photographic evidence.
I thought about the spike strips but I have a Forester coming and going on my property and I would hate to have him step on them or run over them.
Kevin, I wouldn't exactly call them "hot chicks". A little young for me too...
Yoga pants maybe, but Hot Chicks?? Kevin are we looking at the same pictures ?? LOL
Ha. I didn't know you guys had such discerning taste. Most of the trespasser trail cam pics are usually folks straight from the trailer park.
Discerning taste Kevin...? Apparently you haven't seen our women, LOL!
Here's another hot trespasser for you...
Wow I thought I had problems. You are right to try and be civil about it. At some point you have to draw a line. Driving through the food plot, they have already crossed it. Got to be FIB'S.
The thing that REALLY burns my a$$ about trespassers is their attitude. The majority get pissy with you when you catch them. There is no accountability or humiliation amongst these douche waffles. My best trespasser story is from 2009. I was down at our camper for gun season. My uncle and I decided to head to a bar that's 1/4 mile away for burgers and a few beers. I had just got done with my food when a guy a few years younger than me sidled up next to me. He knew who I was and introduced himself. He then said. The day after Thanksgiving his group of 30 were going through our 80. I didn't think I heard right, so I asked him what he said. He repeated that they would be driving our land the Friday after Thanksgiving. Over the course of the next 2 hours this guy threatened me. Wanted to go outside and fight for "hunting rights". Plus everything in between. I didn't take the bait, although in my younger days it took less than that to goad me into a fight;) They didn't show up that Friday.
However I left early that year on the last day of gun season. When I came back for muzzleloader I found 3 dead fawns. Two of which were layed over the bottom rungs of my ladder stands. it was yet another instance where I heard. If we don't catch them in the act, we can't do anything. Just a story to relay the douche bagedness of trespassers.
Mike, not hot. Where are his blaze orange yoga pants... Hahaha
Kevin, that's a gal in that photo (if you zoom in you can see the ponytail). Apparently she was lost and walked all over my property and my neighbors property trying to find her way back. She's walking east in that photo and the property her group was hunting is to the west.
Here's a photo of a douchebag that I believe hunted one of my stands and left pop cans and cigarette butts laying around. I caught him again last year and read him the riot act. I don't think he'll be back.
Here you go Kevin, here's a trespasser I caught and decided to detain indefinitly ;^)
Owned our property since 1986. Pretty much seen and experienced it all. Our neighbor and his children thought ours was his. The son took over the farm last year. Had trail cam picture of him driving on my property. Truck and license plate. Called sheriff gave pictures. Neighbor claimed he was looking for his cattle. Apparently they got through the brand new 4 strand barbwire fence. I said write the ticket. Sheriff did and he paid the fine. I waited way to long trying to be the nice neighbor that got used.
Wow! Katherine Heigl! Way to go Mike;)
No do not detain anyone that may have been walking about on your property. It just isn't worth it.
But if you do - keep your cool and get what information you can obtain and disengage as soon as possible.
Make your point known in a business like manner, get what you need and go and call the Sheriff's Office or if your satisfied it will not happen again - go about your day. But document it somewhere...just in case.
Mike has the right idea with camera/video evidence. There should not be a LEO in this State that provided with that evidence could not or would not make a case for trespass.
Plate numbers/ATV/snowmobile registration and back tags are all great - apparently the folks on mike's property like to wear something to obstruct their tags.
If you witness it, get a plate number or other identifying number, time/date and then be prepared to write a statement to what you saw or occurred.
99.9 per cent of trespassing in this State is handled with a civil ordinance citation - so like GoJakesGo says don't be dejected when your visitor is not led off in handcuffs - even multiple offenders.
But the great majority are "one and done" kind of folks and that takes care of the problem. There are those 1% yahoos who try it over and over.
Your best defense? Camera/Video. Gets you the evidence you want date/time stamped and your not directly involved in a confrontation.
The downside? "Who the hell is that?"
At times you may never know who that person is - that's the bad side. But I would still say go with the picture/video.
There isn't a deer or a piece of dirt that is worth your safety.
BT, does having a criminal trespass sign up make any difference with what trespassers can be charged with or their fine?
Thanks for your input BT.
Jeff, there are laws on the books regarding trespass. I don't think the type of sign you post makes any difference. In fact I don't believe you even need to post any signs in WI, it's up to the individual to know where he/she is.
Mike - BT gives good advice, he knows what he is talking about,,,,,, I find that unbelievable,,,,,,I was always taught never go on private property, without permission, I can never imagine that......
In South Dakota I wanted to hunt some property real bad, spent a day and a half looking for them guy, and found him working at a dryer elevator......
He said go ahead, usually I do not let anyone hunt, but you only have a bow, and you went thru the trouble to ask......
Thanks to all that have responded. Great advice BT, thank you.
Mike, looks like the party is always at your place. I will grab my ATV and be right over! lol I would really have trouble keeping my sanity with them driving over food plots!
Just an idea for the "who is that?" when you get pictures of a trespasser. What we did was enlarge the pictures then laminate them and hung them on the gates on each end of the property with a sign that said "Wanted - information on the identity of this trespasser. Please call XXX-XXX-XXXX, or the Marinette County Sheriffs Department.
Never got any calls, but never saw the guy again. This year, on each gate and along the sides of the property we put up new signs that say "This property under video surveillance". Got them off ebay for about $1 each. The locals are noticing as I've had a couple of them say they saw the new signs and wondered what that was about. Too many other places for someone to trespass then on property they know has cameras out.
The spikes are a bad idea. I had problems 8-10 years ago Atv s n trucks on my logging roads in Marathon County. I lost it set up spikes arc. My wife was friends with the Lincoln County Sherriff. He told me to pull them as I'd be responsible for any damages trespassing or not. I pulled them
Caught me two weeks latter had citations issued to a father and two sons. Most of my problems stooped.
Trespassing signs make no difference but I suggest marking your property lines with them if you are worried about trespassers. Signage helps eliminate the argument they "didnt know".
Example how to make a strong case. Picture of a trespasser is like having a potato. Get their admission to trespassing plus a picture is like having a loaded baked potato. Write a statement for LE, plus admission, plus a picture is like having a loaded baked potato and a steak!
GoJakesGo, great analogy, but it made me really hungry;)
Here's a group going for a nice walk on the edge of one of my fields, she has nice boots but I don't think she got them at Cabelas ...
... and here is a real good shot of one of them an hour later coming out. Still have NO CLUE who they were or what they were thinking.
Love the windmill, looks to be in good shape. Maybe they were checking it out for a heist or just taking some pictures of it.
Mike F's Link
We all deal with the SOB's and it's a sad situation. Here is a link to an interesting article from QDMA
I see on another forum they a trespassers photo site. We should ask Bowsite to create one for each state. Maybe by posting the pics someone may recognize them and contact the pictures owner who posted it and give them the ID. Or maybe the trespasser may even see their own picture and make them think next time they think about trespassing.
"We should ask Bowsite to create one for each state."
I agree with you Ron
"We should ask Bowsite to create one for each state." I agree with you Ron
Fool.
That is just crap. Especially them ATV's!! No doubt there is no respect for you or your property! No reason to have to put gates or anything up. You asked them to stay out. Once should be enough!
As far as identification of unknown trespassers. How about using social media to you advantage. Put them up on facebook. Put it on a few of the local group pages. Every area and town. Seems to have a rummage/for sale page now. Wont take long to get some info.
Jeff - That old windmill still turns in even a modest breeze. It is a little squeeky so I can hear it from any treestand within about 300 yards. Since no one has maintained it for AT LEAST 40 years, that is pretty amazing. They don't build them like that anymore...
Sign size no difference in fines - make em visible and post em high - high enough not to get ripped down.
Post signage as well (you can buy em) that relate that the property has video surveillance - most think twice.