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Several escaped bucks from the game farm still on the loose. Seems odd the doe was so old yet hadn't developed the classic CWD signs. If they depopulate and no other deer is positive, I'd question the science on the test, or more.

IMO the powers that be should just get it over with and ban baiting in the whole state. CWD likely is in every county anyway, and when it's found is just a matter of time and highly dependent on how aggressive testing is. Speaking of baiting and cwd, apparently someone still believes that cwd is not transferred by any way other than baiting? lol. I assume the DNR is planning on showering those counties with free doe tags, bringing in sharp-shooters, scaring the crap out of the public with exaggerations and doom and gloom the sky is falling bs, and maybe even providing dumpsters so hunters can dispose of the day's kill? That should help save deer in those counties and keep people interested in the sport of hunting much like it did under the DNR's management in southern wi. ;-)

But seriously. CWD. Who cares.

Just add the 3 counties listed above to the gray map

+1

Buffalo is an adjacent county, but not within a 10-mile radius of the farm, apparently. Looking at a map, to affect those three counties only it must be in the far SE corner of Eau Claire County. Trempeleau is closer to that area than Buffalo but perhaps also just outside the 10-mile radius.

I think the CWD virus is spread via that old bark too. Not just via bait piles. ;-)

Thanks Mike. So the DNR should get on it and find cwd in every county and get this statewide baiting ban in place. That way we wouldn't have these periodic additional "discoveries" that are used to try and put fear in people. No reason to keep trying to get people all excited over something as silly as CWD.

"Not going to fall for it HunterRC"

Funny stuff Naz. But in all honesty I don't think RC is around this forum anymore. I find it odd that you dream him up in so many different posters, as if he's living between your ears 24/7 and you want him to appear.... ;-)

I don't have a problem with deer farms operating as I believe a person should be able to do what they want with their property, within reason of course. The issue is that their not monitored enough.

now they find it in Eau Claire County, but the same rules do not apply, to the neighboring county of Buffalo,,, am I understanding this right.....

what a joke...........

That is plain untrue. Many states prohibit baiting due to disease. Some states even ban urine based scents for this reason.

What we will see is shorter seasons. Take that to the Bank!

Drop Tine-I wouldn't go to the bank on that yet. I thought many of the Western states banned trail cameras. Does anyone know the facts on that?

And why are these prevalence rates still climbing after the eradication efforts?

Why are these "sparks" occurring different areas which are a significant distance from CWD ground zero?

Why are there doe in the ground zero area which are still alive and over 10 years old...and still producing fawns?

And (God help us)why are there still hunters out there that wish CWD to be found in their area so baiting is banned?

I could care less if baiting was banned, it doesn't affect me. Same with deer farms. IMO, these deer farmers who are tested positive for CWD are out of business so why not use them for further research. Quarantine them. Split the herd and test vaccines. Or let one section live the disease out.

I bring up the later because there have been some cases of deer becoming immune to CWD. And possibly why there are very old doe in the ground zero area still alive and producing fawn. When CWD was discovered, we were led to believe w/o eradication, the disease would spread throughout the local herd. Maybe nature is finding a way?

A baiting ban is one tool in the DNR toolbox. It is obvious the tool doesn't work. For those jumping for joy for CWD in their area for a baiting ban, I wish the DNR would use the other tools they used in the eradication zone. I'm fairly certain be wishing the good ol' days of coming across a two gallon pile of corn vs. 5 month+ guns seasons and unlimited deer tags.

"More laws equal more problems and more hunter against hunter feuding. Just like on this forum. The animal rights groups are fueled off this type stuff."

Yep

I agree it should be given at least a try!

A little devil's advocate here. Might the infection rate be higher than it is if there wasn't a baiting ban? Perhaps what the data tells us is that there are other causes of infection transfer which we already know. I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that the infection transfer cannnot happen with deer eating from the same corn pile. Whether that makes the ban worthy or not is open for discussion. Doesn't matter much because CWD is here to stay and expanding yearly anyway.

Thankfully though the days of scaring people into thinking that killing all the deer to save the deer are over. Feel free to keep trying though. ;-)

That has been going on since the bans started.. imagine all the counties banned but a few...aND legal hunters who want to hunt bait are all in those few counties filling the public woods...it's a friggin surprise there is a deer left in the north.. either state wide na the crap.. or allow it state wide... why punish the folks in the open bait counties with all that pressure..

Not 1 open baiting county is doing well.

Just up north, or overall? There are some pretty impressive harvest totals, year after year, in both bait and no-bait counties in farmland regions. Those numbers could swell significantly this fall after a very mild winter.

167 deer on 12 acres???????

AW, pressure off the charts? License sales are down dramatically, and a lot of that exodus (based on reports from businesses on traffic now vs. years ago) has been up north.

The question asked was what counties are doing well. I can't speak to Door and Kewaunee, but I can speak to both Marinette and Oconto. Simply because crazy numbers of anterless tags are available doesn't mean the heard is doing well. Marinette used to be, for years, one of the top 10 kill counties in the entire state. Those days are long gone. The "big buck contest" run at a local watering hole in Oconto County just north of hwy 64 had ZERO bucks of any size registered 2 years ago. Last year, they didn't have the contest.

Doing well? Hardly.

hunters who want to bait have no place to migrate too... but they sure fill the woods in the decimated counties.

And then complain there are no deer when the migration impact of banning bait in adjacent counties.. it can not get better yet with the vast majority of available public lands..you also get the vast amount of migrant baiters taking deer out... Ban it completely or leave it unlimited... get rid of the 2 gallon limit as well.. It's a friggin joke anyway..

+1. Just more DNR song and dance garbage attempting to mislead. We shouldn't expect any less.

"Apparently Naz.. you have honey holes that go unhunted... good for you."

From what I gather, these guys like to plant food plot on their lands, get several pictures of deer visiting these tasty treats, then post these pictures while complaining about all the deer they attract. Just more song and dance to mislead people into thinking the deer population is crazy out of control.

As a resident landowner the deer population in Door County is above goal.

Is that just on your property where you plant bait-plots and then complain about all the deer you have, or are you speaking for the entire county?

HunterRC, DNR song and dance? I'm not a DNR employee, but you already knew that. Fake-bakers like you don't even get under my skin. At least now we know why all these years you've tried to hide your identity.

While a small percentage of the total land, Door and Kewaunee counties do offer thousands of acres of quality habitat open to the public on DNR wildlife areas, land trust properties, select county and township properties, open MFLs and open crop damage lands.

Yes Naz, and I also know the majority of the biased crap you write is spoon-fed to you by the DNR, how much closer to a "DNR employee" can you be? I'd venture a guess that turkeyhunter gets his writing material from the same source.

I don't think you know very much about my property.

I don't speak for the entire county.

You can see from this chart that as soon as the legislature decided to manage for high deer numbers the population in Door County exploded.

Which would explain why the County Deer Advisory Council (CDAC) voted unanimously for a three-year season structure aimed at reducing the deer herd.

Door County has too many deer. That is the problem with a one-size fits-all deer management policy of the state legislature.

Sounds like you're saying you don't have food plots on your land. No sunflower plots? No yummy morsels planted for the deer to munch on?

The question was who created the graph, not where can it be found. My guess is that graph is based off of inaccurate data, and it's not my responsibility to prove it. It is a pretty graph though. ;-)

"Door County has too many deer."

Instead of whining why not put the drink down and do something about it? Open up your land to other hunters, quit trying to attract deer, call in some sharp-shooters. Where there's a will there's a way, only you can help yourself, the first step is admitting you have a problem. Good luck ;-)

Again the gas pains of your politically driven agenda.

Please explain how the new management plan is a "one-size fits all".

The charts look similar in a lot of farm country units. Granted, many of us know we could/should be allowed to have far more deer/sq. in farm country than the 20-25 they were saying was the right number (and never managed down to). But 3-5x is likely too many when it comes to forest damage, ag damage and car/deer damage. The trouble is excessive use of EAB made some folks gun-shy of shooting even a doe or two and now the herd is exploding in ag lands again. Perhaps all the crossbow users the new administration welcomed will help take care of all those whitetails.

Our CDAC recognizes that nobody (I would include myself) particularly took a liking to EAB. Nevertheless, it was a useful tool in managing the deer population. The legislature took that tool away in an effort to increase deer numbers. Maybe they think deer are uniformly distributed across the Wisconsin landscape.

Deer populations in some portions of the state were hammered by EAB. I get it. But not in my county.

Our CDAC recognizes that issuing additional tags isn't going to work - they have leftover tags as it is. EAB could put the hurt on the exploding deer numbers even if you only used it in alternate years or once every three years.

CDAC also discussed benefits of returning to an early antlerless-only hunt.

Legislature won't allow either because they want higher deer numbers. One size fits all.

Ron - What evidence do you have to suggest I do not do this?

The new program localizes deer management and allows many stakeholders to give input.

You are trying to lead people(in your politically motivated posts) that the removal of EAB and T-zones increased your population. In reality, EAB and T-zones caused the increase. Buck harvest dropped significantly two years prior to EAB removal and overall harvests a year prior. Hunters realized population estimates were incorrect, ignored the DNR and started to manage their areas themselves. We did...we haven't harvested a doe off our lands since 2008 and now have a population back which we could take one or two a year. I know many landowners in Door which did/do the same.

The "one-size fits all" past deer management program has caused your problems. Until hunters drop their distrust in the DNR and educate themselves in proper deer management, populations will continue to grow. Going back to having a guy in Madison tell hunters what to shoot, EAB, T-zones and skewed population estimates is not going help hunter gain that trust.

Not sure where your "estimates" came from but lets look at Door Cty harvests. Remember, EAB was removed in 2010.

2006....4222, 2007....4578, 2008....4109, 2009....2728, 2010....2983, 2011....3120, 2012....3763, 2013....3759, 2014....3889,

It looks like Door hunters are doing pretty good harvesting deer w/o EAB as populations rebound. Heck, with a good year in 2015 and they way they are trending, they could match EAB of 2008. In 2000, hunters harvested a record 402,961 antlerless without EAB. How could this be?

Winner, winner...chicken dinner.

Hunters did their job(without EAB) when populations and tags were available. One big problem with EAB(other than forcing a hunter to harvest an animal they may not want) hunters who have high population in their area of the unit were harvesting doe anyway...EAB was no big deal. Yet hunter in other area of the unit with low populations still had to shoot doe when their area could not afford to, causing a huge population decline.

Within unit and counties, deer are not spread evenly. Even Turkey admitted in a thread awhile back, the deer spread out during hunting season but winter on his land. Although these hotspots exist, they do not reflect the unit/county as a whole. Prior management(and turkey) would rather treat as if the entire unit was a hotspot, institute EAB, T-zone and free tags. Hence, the proper usage of "one-size fits all".

The current management plan allows for local input and management. This hotspots should be address in the county meetings and not be a reflection of the county as a whole. The hotspots should be addressed by the DNR and DMAP to try to educate and assist these landowners. Current management allows for several way to help increase or decrease herd size....I believe the hardest decrease is an antlerless season only in that county.

If Turkey would understand the program and stop with his political gas pains, he would understand the last tool would be his biggest weapon. The threat of a antlerless only season would enough of a carrot for hunters to use free antlerless tags. So rather try to bash the legislature, he should speak with the Door Cty committee and try to pursued them to use this threat. Trust me, hunters will fill tags.

OK - targeting does causes an increase in the deer herd?

That’s rather tortured logic but I suppose anyone is entitled to their own theory.

Please explain the biology behind this.

There is none. I think I clearly explained it but here it is again:

"Hunters realized population estimates were incorrect, ignored the DNR and started to manage their areas themselves"

The numbers I listed for Door would indicate populations were at a low in 2009 but 2008 or maybe in 2007 they should have stopped EAB/T-zones as populations were low enough. Yet, the DNR consistently provided inflated population estimates and used EAB/T-zones/increased tags. Hunters/landowners realized this well before 2009 and started to manage their property/deer on their own. Some closed their land...some registered doe multiple times. Basically, they were not buying what the DNR was selling.

Whether you believe the overuse of EAB caused hunters to rally to remove it or the distrust of the DNR led hunters/landowners to manage deer themselves....EAB/T-zones are a reason for increased populations. If the DNR had listened to hunter, provided accurate population estimates and used EAB/T-zone occasionally when needed....people would not have rallied to remove EAB. Now with 2009/2010 in the back of their minds, hunters/landowners wanting as many deer as they can regardless of the social/biological issues.

"Legislature won't allow either because they want higher deer numbers."

The legislature removed EAB because the public wanted it gone. There was no public outcry to save EAB. It was so easy to discredit SAK as the DNR kept on tweaking variables to show inflated populations. Just by keeping these variables consistent, you could see the population declining. Yet, the DNR continued to show phantom deer populations. The past government caused this problem, not the current.

The harvest numbers show we don't need EAB to shoot doe. When population provides the opportunity, hunters will shoot. Even if Door Cty had EAB, I feel it is safe to say that hunters would still manage deer for high populations. As for T-zones, hunters were not using them.

Now, we have to fix a problem caused by the Doyle administration. Hunters/landowners will never accept 2009 populations or should we have populations of 2000. Deer population need to be a happy balance of hunter satisfaction and biologically acceptable. This can only be done if the DNR and hunters work together. Through education and programs like DMAP, the DNR can help hunters/landowners manage their lands properly for the best population with little to no biological concerns. This is what the DTR stated.

Telling hunters what to do and lying about populations is not going to accomplish this.

After Keith McCaffrey retired, the management of deer went down down down,,,,,,,, Keith knew even way back when, that the state was diverse, we needed habitat, and since he had most of that, the deer did well...

Than we had the mid 90's and into the 2000's, and we had deer management, for the most part, by NON HUNTERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The DNR has reaped what it has sowed, hopefully it will turn around......

I want wildlife managers, that hunt and trap, and have science behind them to manage, our herd, and of course citizen involvement..... maybe it will turn around

"Deer population need to be a happy balance of hunter satisfaction and biologically acceptable. This can only be done if the DNR and hunters work together. Through education and programs like DMAP, the DNR can help hunters/landowners manage their lands properly for the best population with little to no biological concerns."

Agreed, Jeff.

As I've said before I'm willing to be involved in the process and give the CDAC process a chance to work.

If memory serves we've killed 26 deer in the past five seasons. we've much to be grateful for. Hunters in the northern part of the state haven's seen that many deer in the same period of time.

Keith is still "working" in his retirement, behind the scenes, as a volunteer.

Keith is still "working" in his retirement, behind the scenes, as a volunteer.

Funny how a DNR warden came to talk to us after the meeting asking us our names and where we were from.

If I had to turn things around, I would let Keith and John Ozoga from Michigan run the whole shebang, two of the greatest wildlife deer managers in the world, in my opinion.....

as far as Dr. Kroll, since I would not get an independent opinion in this state on him, I did my own research on him, and he is not dummy either.

Although never reported in this state, Kroll has stated in wildlife papers, that he realized N Wis was at the mercy of the Fed govt who controlled the land, and that was why he thought, that at least on a small scale, private land owners could do a better job, with the a sassistance from counties, and state foresters.

he also was of the opinion, that most of the professors today who teach wildlife management do not hunt, and that is another problem in academia, and has created his own on line courses, for both the professional and the citizens.....

Funny what you find out with your own research,,,,,,

I hope we improve in our management, only time will tell......I do have a lot of hope for the UP, since I went to meetings, and there is a significant effort, with volunteers and the DNR to improve winter habitat......

Another star on the horizon, is a fed up north, who wants to turn things around, big time, if he can convince others, and of course, he also is a big hunter and trapper,,,,,,,,,,,

said, I sure would have like to had some of that stewardship money, over a half million, they had to spend, in Mequon, to save a preserve, that no hunter or trapper will ever step foot on, for usage........

Good for you ,Razor, for taking the time to educate yourself before talking.

Drives seem to be a thing of the past only done these days by guys who are more into killing rather than hunting. It takes very little skill to flush out a deer past a stander, not to mention how unsafe the practice is, and how likely it is to leave wounded deer out there suffering a bad hit. Shooting at running/scared deer always has been a bad way to make a clean kill. Makes sense that DNR employees and their fans are into this type of killing. When in doubt keep shooting. ;-)

LOL flushed Ronny right out from cover again. So easy to do.

Actually, slow, planned pushes are some of the most efficient ways of killing whitetails that are hunkered down. Sure beats seeing NOTHING in heavily-hunted farm country where many chronic complainers say the DNR overestimated the herd. Once deer know the hunt is on, unless you have exclusive rights to a "preserve" type setting with a lot of acreage, good luck seeing much natural movement after opening weekend of gun season. I can count on one hand the number I've seen wounded and not recovered in four decades of doing this. On the other hand — wait, we'd probably need 100 hands — a lot of deer have been turned into steaks, stew, hamburger, hot dogs and sausage through the years using these methods. That said, we see far, far more deer than we shoot. Our goal is shooting only standing deer that stop to look back at those walking the cover (they do that often if planned right and in the right type of cover). We also shoot those that are moving slow to medium speed, with that nervous "where do we go now?" gait.

Shooting at skittish deer over bait with bow or one of three crossbows owned (even using hand-shucked corn spread for a relative who decided not to hunt there) likely causes more wounding than drives ever will.

for many years, when I had a group of guys who we all hunted together, and knew the woods, we did drives.

Our drives for the most part, were all day slow pushes, and we shot some great bucks, in the north. we used no cell phones no GPS, just a good Marble compass and our wits......

We also did a rabbit hunt, where we would have 2 guys on stand by 5am, and at 9am a few of us, would than still hunt all day, and push deer towards those two standers, and we all shared in the celebration, when an excellent shot, took another nice buck down....

yeah them deer drivers sure are ignorant killers, talk about the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this site................

Oh yeah, since you know so much about hunting, I will clue you in, we use to do a lot of late season pushes with our bows, and that too, is an art form, that you must learn,

I guess I am wasting my breath, this site gets worse each week..............

"yeah them deer drivers sure are ignorant killers, talk about the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this site................"

That is an ignorant statement, glad I didn't say it. I said it's a killing mentality.

"Oh yeah, since you know so much about hunting"

I didn't say that either, where are you getting all this from?

But I will say if a group of guys "driving deer" spend a long 10 hour day poking through a 7 acre piece of woods, I personally wouldn't label that as a deer drive, nor do I think that's how it's done in today's busy world. Sounds more like morel hunting than driving deer to me.

"Our goal is shooting only standing deer that stop to look back at those walking the cover"

lmao that cracked me up thanks for that.

"Would you let the bowsite community (especially Naz) know that I am not Hunter R and never have been. I am not on Bowsite and have not been for several months. I read from time to time but have not posted in a very long time. Let them know that if they want so badly to talk to be or about me, I can come back if that’s what they want."

Ron never leaves. He just posts under another name.

While we argue about who is RC and who's not RC, you're post echo's a disturbing fact that is true across WI. Hunter recruitment is something we all should be worried about!

It has been my personal observation that we are losing new recruitment to changing times, electronics and a new society with misplaced values and what is really important in life.

The non-hunting community continues to grow daily and we as hunters (A) Don't care, or (B) do little or nothing to stop the cycle. A small percentage of us continue to try to attempt to address the problem, but it's one largely ignored by most.

The non-response to Redclubs post speaks loudly to where are concerns as hunters really is...

Now...just where did Rancid Crabtree go now?

Really?

Good stuff here. He "hasn't been on bowsite for several months" (LOL) but he was just booted from here again a few weeks ago - hmmm. He wasn't rickflare, Howatt, or davebow either - hmmm. He is a pathelogical liar though but that is not news to anyone.

"Why does RC consume some people as much as it appears that he does? If someone who you believe is RC posts and you don't like it, just ignore the comment."

Mike, do you ignore the comments you don't like or do you comment back like you just did? You bash people regularly here when you don't like what they post. Shouldn't you just ignore those comments? What fun would these message boards be if people didn't retort on things they don't like? Ronnie's latest comments with him judging people on how they hunt would have you PO'ed if they were from me or Naz and you know that is fact. You let him slide 100% of the time but never grant anyone else here that luxury. Again, you know that is fact.

See, told you so. Now for you guys that were getting all giddy dreaming that Ron was here and you were reading posts that were typed by his own hand and that he was actually talking to you, sorry to burst your bubbles but really I'm not him. Only in your dreams am I Ron. Kinda grosses me out to say that. Come to think of it, please do me a favor and choose someone else that posts here to get your delusional Ron fix from as I find the whole thing to be quite unhealthy. In a strange, obsessed, stalker-like, man-crush way. ;-)

The same can/could be said about scrapie in sheep. It has been around a long time yet humans still consume them with apparent problem.

But I guess "if" a human becomes infected they probably would close all the taverns in the county where hunters congregate so it doesn't spread via human contact.

This is NOT good :(

Not only taverns but gentlemen's clubs also!

Gasp..... Say it isn't so.

Then I would imagine they would have travel restrictions so a hunter couldn't leave the Human CWD zone. No booze, no women and ya got the CWDs. Horrible

"Normal mice are not able to contract CWD. Only through genetic mutation are researchers able to create a mouse that can contract CWD. "

The is the point of the study and them using humanized transgenic mice as they can use the mice to closer represent human biology. I don't believe they care if your standard house mouse can contract it. They are concerned over human contraction.

We also could be part of the New Madrid Fault Zone, new ice age or Sharknado 4.

I think the scare tactics have run its course. Unless you'd like to eradicate the deer and not eat any vegetation in the CWD zones for 10 years.

If CWD mutates....there is nothing we can do about it. Except....eat genetically CWD resistant deer.

Do I worry that I Will catch something from the deer? No, I am more worried about the chemicals they shove down the throats of the meat that they sell in the grocery stores.

We all take chances every day. We can go through life worrying about this, that and the other thing. Or we can live life to the fullest and be as careful as we can be and still enjoy life!

I choose to live life to the fullest! Pass the venison, potatoes and the gravy! Thank you very much!