Who got shut out for 5C this year?
Pennsylvania
Just curious how many folks here got shut out for a tag this year.
5C SOLD OUT as of 9am on Tues. I think it caught a lot of people off guard.
The last several years although they sold out, it wasn't until LATE in the season. (Dec/Jan)
We have heard from several folks planning to hunt the UBP 5C hunt with us this year that did not get a tag in time.
We figured they would go faster this year, but I don't think ANYBODY anticipated just how quickly! Certainly not BEFORE the early archery season opened.
I'm just curious about this.... There were Thousands of tags going out daily. Thousands. We're these mostly computer generated or were the treasurers THAT busy? Weren't there complaints about these treasurers being slow and untrustworthy? I dunno something just doesn't seem right to me. Probably just me :)
5C only had 70,000 tags this year.
In the past, well over 100,000
Brad- last year it was 95,000.
I got 3 for 5C but I know a guy or two who didn't. Also know of a few who didn't read the reg book and bought 5C when their hunting spot is now 5D.
What difference does it make Rut butt.. You gonna whine in this thread too? OLD Boo who who who I didn't get a tag boy.. LMFAO
Check out the information in the attached link. Last year there were 113,000 tags available for 5c and 5d combined. It was recommended that they issue 117,000 this year (88,000 and 29,000).
Instead, they issued 94,000 (70,000 and 24,000).
The boundary change also caused a bit of panic among a good number of guys causing a run on the already reduced number. Easy to see why they are now gone.
Dale, every tag has to be bought at the County Treasurers but since you can walk in and buy as many as you want over the counter they really do go ft.
Only 70K tags this year, and it seems to me there are more deer now in the areas of 5C that I travel and live in than when there were 119k issued. This year I have noticed a lot more road kills through the Spring and Summer, where as in years past, it would mostly be around the rut (mid Oct. thru mid Nov.)
With all the private, and unhuntable ground in 5C, I believe the PGC could issue 100K tags indefinitely and not hurt the deer heard down here.
I was thinking that if a hundred hunters walked into the office and bought 10 each that's a thousand licenses. They were selling 1000 to 1300 A DAY! That's a monumental Number! Someone was workin their arses off!
It's not just one county so there may be at least six or eight offices involved given how close things are. I do think that when folks saw the numbers dwindling they rushed to get their license (s).
Yeah,you're right . I guess 5C consists of 6 county seats. Then we're talking 200 per each day. Thanks for making me see the light:)
Where do I send the invoice? LOL
Don't be scared Dale, tell him where to stick it.. I would:)
Ya been busy today, Rut butt? Ya haven't posted. LMFAO
Lol my bro didn't get his lic for the hunt:( looks like me n MJ again
Yeah Roy- I was out fishin'! ;-)
Dale- tell him don't feel bad. He makes the 6th person I have heard that got shut out for the 5C hunt. I know of one 5C hunt "veteran" that has 13 tags for 5D, but NONE for 5C! I won't name any names................ ;-)
But I'm telling them to buy a bear tag and still come out and hunt with us.......................you never know! Right? ;-)
It is not just 6 county seats...I bought my 5C tag in Coundersport, Potter County. It was more convenient at that time then my local court house in Wellsboro, Tioga County.
It is a shame we can't legally transfer antlerless tags in PA like we can in NY.
Unfortunately I think some tags from WMUs with abundant numbers end up on deer taken in WMUs with many fewer tags. I'd like to think our brother-sisterhood of hunters is more honest than the rest of the population, but we are probably no different than the population as a whole, our share of good apples, bad apples, and a few that are just drops.
I am wondering if they will put a limit on the number of tags you can buy in the SRA's now.
I usually get 50 but wasn't even able to get half that. Lot of sad faces in the line behind me at the MontCo courthouse when I bought the last 23.
Would anybody be upset if I kept 2 tags and burned 21 tags to help keep the population high?
i only got 20 this season. gonna have to pace the killing this season
You serious Bob???!!! (not criticizing/judging here, just genuinely curious if you actually get 50 tags/yr?)
ANd to answer your question- YES! We know a lot of land owners in 5C that would be a little upset to hear people were burning tags. Especially considering all the damage the deer are causing on their farms/properties!
The trick to getting large quantities over the counter is you have to show up with 50 applications already filled out. That way you don't lose your spot in line wasting time filling out apps while guys like me buy them up right in front of your eyes.
Ahh, I'll come clean...I only bought two 5C tags but was illustrating what can & does happen with the SRA tags.
Here's the way it used to be: I primarily hunt in 5D. Up until 4 or 5 years ago I would take around 10 mature doe per year on a few different properties, but I would only have two 5D tags in my possession at any one time. I'd just stop at the Treasurers office & buy a new tag or two when I needed them. With the 5C tags, I used to buy just one & then replace that one, over the counter, when needed. 5C has sold out the last few years & 5D sold out for the very first time last year. Now guys are afraid they won't have enough tags to take them to the end of January, so they buy way more than enough and we all know that most of the tags will go unfilled, but hey, they get to hunt deer until the end of January. Now if you're the unfortunate guy that like to take maybe one deer a year in the SRA's and was used to getting your tag, say in October, well you're screwed & will continue to be screwed by the pigs that hoard the tags.
Nobody should be able to buy more than 2 tags over the counter at one time for themselves.
too many people are given any amount of tags for 5c.we are hunters not killers.these same people in a few years will be saying they aren't seeing any deer.deer come from deer. same goes for any wmu. u get a buck tag and then get a 1st round doe permit.y a 2nd and 3rd if available. isn't 1 of each enough.sock it in!!
any county treasurer can sell a doe tag for any wmu.
I hear you Bob- and believe the same thing. That a lot of guys bought extra tags early this year just so they can hunt the entire season. And I also think a lot of tags will go unfilled. And I suspect this will result in a drop in the harvest in 5C.
I'm wondering what the PGC will do to try to "fix" the problem.
"Now if you're the unfortunate guy that like to take maybe one deer a year in the SRA's and was used to getting your tag, say in October, well you're screwed & will continue to be screwed by the pigs that hoard the tags."
If you're the guy who is either too disorganized or too lazy to get your tags before they run out, you screwed yourself and will continue to screw yourself until you get with the program. But go ahead and place the blame on those who had their act together instead of taking responsibility for yourself. I guess some type of Antlerless license Welfare program will need to be put in place to assist those who aren't capable of handling such a complex task.....
((( I'm wondering what the PGC will do to try to "fix" the problem. )))
OMG Perry, that is funnier than hell:)
There was talk at one time about "Alpha Hunters". Those who harvest deer, get priority for tags over those that don't. If this ever happens, I'm screwed.
That may be true with some people Stekewood, but it is also true about the pigs I speak of.
Whew, finally received my 5C doe tag in the mail, yesterday:)
Stekewood- I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just pointing out what happened this year. Guys who normally waited because they had plenty of time any other year in Oct, Nov and even December to get tags got surprised.
And others who saw what was happening apparently bought up a lot of tags very quickly.
My point is that I believe a lot more of those tags are going to go unfilled this year and it will likely show up in the deer harvest.
Jen- what is wrong with shoot a doe, earn a(another) tag? I don't shoot a lot of deer every year, but have always been a proponent of this type of program. Let the hunters who want and can, shoot more deer- especially in areas like the SRA's where there need to be more shot.
I totally agree Rut but Bob's assumption that guys buying large blocks of tags are "pigs" and saying that no one should be allowed to buy more than 2 is ridiculous. The Game Commission wants the deer killed. It doesn't matter if a thousand guys kill 30 each or 15,000 guys kill 2 each, the result is the same. A guy isn't going to walk in and drop $200 on tags if he's only going to kill two or three. He may end up with a few tags left over but those type of guys are going to fill a far bigger percentage of their tags than the guys who buy 2 and don't fill them both.
I'm sure some Bernie Sanders supporter is going to try to argue that the government should oversee and over regulate things so that everything is "fair" and that the guy who is too lazy to get his tags early shouldn't "suffer" because someone with their act together bought a large block of them.
The bottom line is that anyone, especially those who only shoot one or two deer, had more than enough time to get their tags. There's a doe license update right on the Commissions webpage and the writing was on the wall for weeks. The only reason anyone got shut out is because it wasn't important enough to them to be sure they got them before they ran out. If they care, they won't make the same mistake next year.
Earn a tag would be great, especially if it could be done online. Guys who shoot a lot of deer sometimes shoot four or five in a weekend. If they allowed five or so tags to be bought initially with the ability to replace them immediately online through earn a tag, it would probably work well for everyone.
I often wonder what non hunters would think of us hunters if they read some of the threads on here! I'm sure it wouldn't be good thoughts:)
Hell RC, one doesn't have to be a non hunter to read some of these threads and think bad thoughts. ;-)
Steke- you would be amazed at the number of people that have no idea you can check the doe tag update, check the status of your antlerless application or even report a kill online! ;-)
PALongbow- that won't work. I know a rifle hunter that hasn't killed a deer in years and I know a stickbow guy that get's several every year with his longbow! ;-)
I'm gonna break out the bow next week and try my new expandable broadheads..... Can't wait to start shooting again! :) mom got 3 2G doe tags for us to use too!!! I'm PUMPED! :)
I stand by my statement because ever since the PGC started issuing unlimited tags in the SRA's (No longer unlimited), year after year I've seen the pigs with my own eyes sucking up handfulls of antlerless tags over the counter at the Bucks & Montgomery Counties Treasurers offices, & I hear the pigs talk about their leftover tags at various gun & archery shops after the season has ended.
I ain't toeing the "Blue Line" so to speak. Some of you think we should just shut up and ignore the problems we have within our ranks...as if silence will solve the problem. You go right ahead and fool yourself with that kind of lame-brained thinking. I don't play that politically correct game, you got that?
RC wrote "I often wonder what non hunters would think of us hunters if they read some of the threads on here! I'm sure it wouldn't be good thoughts:)"
I think they'd say some are liars & some speak truthfully.
I see someone has had their Friday afternoon martinis. :-)
So seriously Bob, what percentage of tags does one need to use to rise above pig status? If someone were to buy 25 tags and fill 23 of them is he no longer part of your sounder of swine? How about if he buys 50 and fills 40?
Well, I pulled 16 and plan on using them all. The guys that pull alot of tags each year-- use them for the most part or atleast try by putting tons of hours in. I don't think these guys have bought more tags. These are the dead pan killers down here, it needs to be done. But, something is different this year, theres new or different players in this for it to go the way it did.
Should be totally unlimited down here!!!
Now Bob, was just across the road from your Bucks county spot, deer everywhere, need your help, shoot em up!
Bill V
WHEN the biologist recommendations carried more weight and consideration, deliberately hoarding or burning tags saved few if any deer.
The PGC staff has a good idea of how many tags have to be issued just to kill one antlerless deer. It was not just based on report cards, but also field checks, processing plant checks, and other sources. Hoarding or burning tags only increased the number of tags issued.
However, now that the legislators seem to be dictating how many antlerless tags will be issued, I'm not sure how that will affect what hoarders and burners do.
For far too many legislators, it is not about governing, it is not about making the difficult decisions, it is not about wildlife, it is about reelection. Votes drive the system... And pandering to voters is what collect votes.
Pandering to constituents' wants is not governing, pandering is more akin to prostitution.
Stekewood, I agree 100%. The Game commission has doe tag updates on their website so anyone that didn't get a tag has no one to blame but themselves. I normally wait until a couple days before the season to get my tags but after checking the website I realized I better go get them sooner. I not sure how that makes me a pig but I'll be at the UBP 5c doe hunt in a couple weeks and anyone who wants to explain it to me is more than welcome to come to my camp site.
Whats a guy do if he doesn't have a pc?
RC, he can phone a friend but I have to guess that there aren't many people who don't have access to the internet now a days.
I don't, Mike:) But I'll stop at your camp site at the 5C hunt, for a beer:)
RC you're more then welcome to stop by for a beer, there's always plenty on ice at our camp!
Deal... But we won't talk about mechanical broad heads:) LOL
I have 7 for 2B, 1 for 1A, and might get one for 2A.
Also have 2 tags for IA this year. Nov 7-12!!!
Hoping to put some meat in the freezer, since I just ran out.
My teenage kids also have 1A and 2B doe tags. Hopefully they can help fill the freezer.
Dang Herd- you must LOVE venison! ;-)
Just had some for lunch. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The problem with the anterless allocations was the deletion of many tags and the moving of the boundaries. Reductions in numbers of tags as well as the people who were on the ball and got there's, people were shut out since they have at least lasted after opening day.
To the poster that called guys buying bunches of doe tags "Pigs", well, get there in line before them, problem solved. People buy doe tags to use, not burn like in the northern tiers.
Ron- some do. Some guys hunt private properties/farms and need more than 3 to help the farmers/landowners. Some guys have big families they need to feed.
Ropn are you the new Obama Sustainable Deer numbers Counter? We could eat 5 to 6 deer a year at my house now that everyone is home from college. We're 1%ers lol That's not counting what I give away to folks that cant hunt.
Will that meet the requirements? Geeze Ron you sound like Bernie Sanders!
When my kids were in high school and college we polished off seven deer one year and most of that was burger, straps, steaks, and roasts, maybe a little bologna.
"Let's be honest....does a person need more than three tags?"
Depends on the person. If he shoots three deer and keeps them for himself then no, he doesn't.
If he uses 5 deer at home, his two kids living in apartments at college with 3 room mates each use another few, he donates a dozen or so a year to local organizations that host hundreds of non hunters for "venison night" banquets, gives a few to non hunting family members and co-workers, and donates a half dozen or so to Hunters Sharing the Harvest, then yes he does..
Is the guy who shoots 30 deer a year being greedy, or is he the one who is representing our sport in a positive light to the non-hunting public and opening doors for all bow hunters?
Might want to think about that the next time you see one of the pigs at the Treasurers office with a big stack of applications.
I keep talking to more and more people that got shut out, one didn't even get their Lic yet. This person had no idea that the doe tags were gone.
Some of it is , that we don't usually run out til after Oct. and mostly much later than that. I was in no rush due to this fact. I bought the bulk of mine in the last week that they were still available.
There are rumors down here that there were very large blocks of tags going out to a few lic holders. Caution, that is just a rumor. Its also a rumor that this is being looked into.
Bill V
Bill I wonder if the lic hders are actual hunters.....
So you're saying a few PETA-types might have gone in after buying a license and bought up hundreds/thousands of tags????!!!!
What I'm saying is a rumor. Take it with a large grain of salt.
Bill V
What a great thing that would be if that were true. They would all have to go take hunter ed, buy a license every year AND pay for all the antlerlees licenses. The PGC could just keep issuing more each year to be sure they meet their harvest goals and the revenue would soar.
Steke- that would be true only IF the PGC would increase the license allocations to compensate. Seems contrary to what they have been doing in most WMU's over the last several years.
That's exactly what I thought too Steve. new cash cow. Again, need to make them "unlimited"
Ever think that may already be the case?
Ron, I disagree. If you could hunt a property, over run with doe and you could get permission. However you needed to kill say 10 a year to keep that permission and kill any buck you wanted to. Would you? In say 5C and 5D that happens on many properties. But by doing so, you could not dent any herd numbers if you killed double that? And donated the deer to HSH?
I am sure you would, judging by your perspective is a tricky thing.
Hunting the SE is like shooting fish in a barrel. I don't call that hunting..
Can i hunt where you guys hunt? I have yet to find the barrel.....
Ron- you need to come to the 5C Hunt and talk to some of our farmers and land owners! They are practically BEGGING us to shoot more deer!
Ron, the deer aren't being killed for "other causes". They are being killed because the PGC needs them killed. If they had to rely on guys who only buy a couple tags they would never come close to their goal.
The analogy of the full creel holds no water. The deer are going to be killed one way or the other. You can be sure that if you told the fishermen that the trout were going to be gill netted if they didn't start keeping more they would all be headed home with their limit. The guys who don't shoot the deer are the ones who cry the loudest when alternative methods of control have to be brought in because they didn't want to get the job done.
I'm not joking, Ron. You need to talk to these landowners and get their perspective. Many of them are frustrated because guys pass on doe after doe while hunting for a big buck! That is why we have gained permission on some of the farms- because they know we are hunting ANTLERLESS deer only!
Dan Smoker talked to John Plowman(sp?) who heads HSH last week. John stressed how much HSH needs deer right now to process and distribute to the food banks. As you can imagine, once hunting seasons end, the donations and thus the supply of deer meat goes way down. And apparently the demand has gone up substantially lately, thus depleting supplies. He also said you would be surprised at the people who are coming into the food banks these days. Lots of hard working and professional people that either can't find work, or are working 2 or 3 part time jobs trying to make ends meet.
For Bob McArthur, here's an oldy but a goody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h7Hlr9Ztag
Only (1) WMU with any left as of today. Wow..
2B never sells out as they offer over 60,000 every year. Reason being because of the over population in Allegheny county which a lot of land can't be hunted. And Westmoreland county where I live comprises part of 2B so guys can buy all the 2B tags they want and take many deer in Westmoreland county. Not a very good system with these management units being so large.
I'm guilty. I was in the process of getting my house ready to go on the market to sell when our agent called with a full price offer from one of his other clients. The only thing was they wanted to settle by Aug 31st. that left me with 4 weeks to get the house together, find a place to live, and move. By the time I got settled and got ready to buy, they were gone. I'll be on top of it again next year.
The idea of hunters killing deer for food banks or Hunters Sharing the Harvest or similar programs is really not new. Actually, the idea of only killing game for yourself or your immediate family is the NEWER philosophy.
In many primitive cultures successful hunters were held in high regard not because they fed only their family, but because they hunted for the village or community. Hunting was frequently a group or shared experience.
The idea of only killing what you personally can consume is an outgrowth of recreational hunting (what some people call sport hunting) which began for the common folks near the end of the 1800s and early 1900s.
That philosophy is then only about 90 to 140 years old at the most!
These modern distribution programs may be mere convenience for some ego driven hunters but a genuine resource for conscientious hunters who want to help and serve others. Not to be lost in that debate is the real blessing to hungry people.
Could we just donate money or purchase meat for others? I suppose we could but there is integrity and honesty in doing it the way we do and it ties us to a heritage of hunting that is thousands of years old.
Very true Dale. To this point this year I have given deer to 4 different families and donated 5 deer to the food banks. There's a bunch of people getting venison in they're stew that are awfully glad to have it. I don't concern myself with what others might say, we help the food banks and the land owners in our quest. I've used half my tags so far and don't really expect to have many left at the end of the year. There was one year that a group of us donated 4007 lbs to the food banks (documented).
The payoff-- Knowing we help as stated above, have many different properties to hunt in desired areas. And of course, hunting properties that have the possibility to produce decent bucks.
and last, we just flat out enjoy it!
Bill V.
