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Proper Ethics?

Last season, my son who was 14 at the time, hit a doe too far forward making a poor shot on a quartering away shot. A group of us tracked the deer that night and found ½ of his broken arrow. We had good blood for a long time and then it dissipated into nothing. The same group then tried again for 2 other days and called it quits.

I chose to punch my son’s tag meaning he could no longer shoot an antlerless deer. I did this because I know many outfitters do the same when people injure an animal and I believe it is even law in some states (I am thinking Alaska specifically). I believe Ted Nugent was busted for injuring a bear and then shooting a 2nd one. I feel confident that deer my son hit would die from infection. I feel the resource is not unlimited and there should be ramifications to one actions/outcomes. I have done the same with my own tag too.

So, what is the opinion of others? Was I too tough by cutting the tag and should I have just let him go until he got it right, or was it a good lesson in hunting ethics?

Good job, you did tbe right thing.

I think it was a great lesson in hunting ethics, but a tough one for him. Hoping his next shot is true and it'll really be something he always remembers.

Good lesson.

FWIW - I think that punching the tag was the appropriate thing to do. As an armchair quarterback, I think that I would have had him do the actual punching of the tag himself. Easy to chime in after the fact.

Let him know that we appreciate and respect both of you for the decision.

Thanks for the comments thus far. In all fairness to my son, he was VERY distraught and in tears. This hurt him because he knew the deer would die from infection and would suffer. He wanted to call it quits for the season and I had all I could do to get him back on the horse. He did not take any shots at bucks. We discussed the situation and he learned lessons. I also told him he's human and this happens to everyone and I am proud he was as distraught as he was. He also shoots a lot. I did not let him hunt when he was 13 until I felt he was proficient at 20 yards. He did have a successful kill at age 13.

I'd be curious if any adults have done this with their own tags when they have experienced misfortunes or if they continued to hunt. I am not saying the latter is wrong, because it is legal in most states.

Sorry, call me silly, but I'm not making my kid punch his tag. In my opinion you are forcing your ethics on him. There is no law that requires this. He is learning, and will make mistakes. This to me seems more like a punishment for a missed shot (mistake), not an intentional decision.

This is my opinion. Certainly not knocking your parenting. I just feel differently is all.

Edited: I feel the need to explain further. I believe hunting is supposed to be rewarding. I understand your point about the animal dying, but I compare it to those parents who set criteria to a child on what size the buck must be, before they are allowed to shoot it. I seriously think hunting is far too much of a personal experience to evoke your own rules on another....even your own child.

I mean no I'll regard Happy.

I think you made the right choice happy. I have elected not to shoot another doe after wounding one. I have also elected to continue hunting for a buck after wounding one. Just like I encouraged 10 or better last year when it happened to him and nocturnal last week when he did it. We all have wounds and misses. We are human and after waiting all year to hunt, I wouldn't want to end my season that way. My second year I wounded both a doe and a buck. I caught a bit of deer fever and released as soon as I saw brown in my peep. Those are my only two wounds and that was the year I kept hunting for a buck but never took a shot at another doe.

Pete-pec - I think that one of the most important jobs that I have as a father is to work to instill what I feel is ethical as an integral part of their decision process. I respectfully disagree with you.

Once my kids are adults, they will be free to make decisions that fit their own set of values. I hope that those decisions will reflect that I've done a decent job.

All good. I also don't believe in promoting my religious or political beliefs etc. to my kids. That's another personal decision, that of which is something they can discover for themselves....when they become adults. ;-) I could explain further, but it's difficult to explain my philosophy to people that have their own, and quite honestly, I'd be hypocritical (to say the least) to expect anyone else to buy into my philosophy when my point is that I want people to make their own decisions as long as they are staying within parameters of the law. Just like I respect most parenting decisions (including this one) even when they may not reflect my own?

My kids turned out wonderful.

" In my opinion you are forcing your ethics on him. There is no law that requires this. He is learning, and will make mistakes. This to me seems more like a punishment for a missed shot (mistake), not an intentional decision. "

Thanks for the viewpoint Pete-pec. That is what I am looking for. I agree 100% that I did force my ethics on my son. I also did tell him everyone makes mistakes. It was not intended as punishment. It was intended as ramifications for the result knowing the resource is not endless. My son was totally cool with it because as I noted, he was distraught and didn't want to hunt again and I once again leveraged my will and convinced him to get back on the horse. He could have shot a buck but chose to pass.

I hear ya loud and clear when it comes to parents who tell kids what they should shoot deer wise. I am not that parent. My son can shoot whatever he has a tag for regardless of the age of the deer. The pic I have attached is my son with his first bow kill. He misjudged the age of the deer and killed a fawn. He was sick to his stomach after we walked up to it and did not rejoice like I wanted him too. He was too worried about what others might say. Too much reading the internet I guess.

I appreciate all opinions. As noted, this was a personal choice. There is no right or wrong because continuing to hunt is not illegal in WI. I will say after reading what orion and pete said, the decision next time would be left to my son. I feel pretty confident in what his choice would be.

Glad you understand happy. Again, I am not here to judge.

I knew a football coach that took the fun out of football. My son thinks like me. If he's not enjoying it even suffering letdowns (losses in the case of football, and a deer in your son's case), the "game" no longer seems like a game (and I would call football more of a game, than hunting by the way). with that said, my son thought he was letting me down when he asked if he could quit after the season was over? I told him I was more upset that he thought he would hurt my feelings for quitting versus only playing because he thought I'd be upset. Was I upset? Sure! I loved watching him play. He was good, and a joy to watch, but if he wasn't enjoying it, I completely go it. I understand your point completely. As we grow into adulthood we are certainly going to appreciate those life lessons while there are less ramifications involved as we see when we are kids.

I completely understand that my parenting style is at the bottom of that bell shaped curve lol. I love listening to my kids, because they don't nescesarily mirror what I think, and that is refreshing, and when they reflect my own viewpoint, maybe I taught them after all, but only through my actions. Now mind you, that doesn't mean they don't have a set of rules to live by? It simply means I typically leave those rules for things that fall outside of my own personal beliefs.

Happy hunting!

Things don't always go perfect in hunting, sometimes a wounded animal happens. I don't see the need to punch the tag all the time. If the kids was like "oh well I'll just go shoot another one" then I wouldn't let him shoot another. If he was concerned and upset over the wounding I would explain that it happens and the importance of picking a spot etc. and I would let him continue to hunt.

What do you mean by "punch the tag"? Did you call it in as a harvested deer?

I have wounded 3 deer in 24 yrs and I can tell you I hunted harder those yrs to redeem myself. I was sick for a few days but Shot my bow several times and got back out there. If you have very few deer I can see holding back so another deer didn't get wounded or killed.

"What do you mean by "punch the tag"? Did you call it in as a harvested deer? "

No, I cut the tag and tossed it.

This happened at a friend's property where we have hunted the past 8 years. That made the sting and embarrassment for my son even stronger. It made my decision easier too. I can say that I would always do that (punch the tag) with any deer I would wound and lose and I did it last time that happened to me. As noted, I would let me son render his own decision going forward but I know he'd punch the tag given how he reacted last year. I just pray this does not happen again for a long time. If it happened any time soon, I'm afraid I'd lose him totally as a hunter. He often questions the ethics of bowhunting to me when we watch TV shows and he sees how far the deer run after being hit before they die. Same when people back out with questionable hits to let the deer bed and hopefully die. He knows they are suffering. He has true concern for the animals. We always say a prayer and give Thanks to God over every kill before we gut the animal.

Is he hunting because he likes it? Or is is hunting because you do and wants to spend time with you? I have a daughter that loves shooting and archery but could never shoot an animal. I accepted that and we have a ton of fun when we shoot together.

She has 3 daughters that she wants me to teach and take out so they can experience everything about shooting and hunting and let them make their own decisions on their likes as well as dislikes. Perhaps a sit down heart to heart and truly find his passion.

Just one dad passing along to another. I'm far from a social worker and made my share of mistakes parenting.

Idk about taking the tag away. It's not fun to lose deer but to me I need to eat, and it saves a lot on my grocery bill. If it happened twice in a row then I'd hang it up for the year.

Well I mean if you punched your sons tag. Let it be a valuable lesson for him. It will probably make him a better hunter. Sometimes your shot can be great. And the deer just drops resulting in a bad hit. I've never punched my own tag over this issue. If I did, well I'd be done right now. hoping for sweet redemption!

I have never "punched my tag" on an animal that I did not recover. But I have hung it up over an animal I did not recover. I have those tags as a reminder that things don't always go as planned. I also keep a diary and often go back and read it.

Last year my Uncle didn't recover a buck he had hit during rifle season. It was the first time in a long time that he didn't recover a deer that he had shot. He didn't punch his tag, but didn't pull the trigger for the rest of the season either.

I don't think it's my place to tell anyone that they can't hunt if they've wounded an animal and it can't be recovered. I talk about it with my clients and have yet had to discuss it after any shot that was taken. Some animals have had to go over night and recovered the next morning. I know this says a lot for the hunters, but sooner or later it will happen and we'll have to cross that bridge when it happens.

Good to see we can all have a level headed discussion on ethics.

I've never physically thrown my tag out but I did stop bowhunting one year just before the rut after wounding one without recovering him. I was so disgusted with myself I set my bow down for the rest of the season.

The only thing that sticks in my craw about this is your contention that "you know The deer would die from infection". You don't know that at all !!!

Deer recover quickly from much worse wounds than the desctrption above. As long as you don't hit gut, very few deer will die from infection IMO.

****and I'm not saying that to justify continuing to hunt....just that too many people assume muscle wounds are often fatal. They are not.

"This hurt him because he knew the deer would die from infection and would suffer. He wanted to call it quits for the season and I had all I could do to get him back on the horse."

I would imagine he did want to call it quits since he was led to believe that deer would die from infection. I agree with the above poster that there was no way to know that.

I find it sad that he was led to believe shooting a young deer (what you labelled a fawn) was a bad thing (the previous year.)

"I did not let him hunt when he was 13 until I felt he was proficient at 20 yards."

I don't understand what that^ was all about. What is magical about 20 yards? I do not take shots beyond my comfort range, which is about 30 yards with my compound. That doesn't mean I shouldn't hunt until I'm proficient at 30 yards, it means if that is my goal yet I'm only proficient at 20 yards I'll be out there not shooting at anything over 20 yards! If I expected my kid to be accurate at 20 yards yet he is good with 10 yards and not 20, I wouldn't make him sit out the season with the idea he's not skilled enough I'd expect him to only take those shots he's comfortable with.

No offense op, but you asked for opinions.

I hope your son has found some enjoyment in his brief hunting career and I hope he sticks with it.

Even the most experienced hunters make bad shots once in a while. It is the challenge that makes me come back day after day year after year. Honestly this sounds like a father who doesn't want his child to hunt, you have to many rules (outside the state law) to follow. In order for youth to become successful they need to be able to make mistakes and have family and friends who can lift their spirits afterward not bring them down. That deer could have lived, no one will ever know. There is no room for what you call "ethics" like this.

I kind of felt sorry for the little guy too. It's like the family I know that won't let kids gun hunt with them until they turn 16. They couch it off as ethics/maturity but I think they just don't want kids at the cabin.

There's always room for ethics like this. Ethics are personal and go beyond State law.

Ethics that selfishly delay the start of a kids hunting career by 4 years? Or ethics that make a kid cry at the thought of an infected, suffering deer?

Life is tough for kids and adults. If my kids hunt hard and accidently wound some deer that is the least of my concerns, goes with hunting. Predators and scavengers will eat the wounded and lost and perhaps kill less on their own. They have to eat too.

I do not humanize the experience, life is tough in the wild and in the human world. Do what you can to be kind, don't fret the unanticipated.

"Is he hunting because he likes it? Or is is hunting because you do and wants to spend time with you?"

He is hunting because he LOVES hunting. He can't get enough of it, just like fishing. He shoots a lot, both his bow and his rifles at any chance he can.

"I find it sad that he was led to believe shooting a young deer (what you labelled a fawn) was a bad thing (the previous year.) "

I agree with that too. I was sad when he was sad over his successful kill regardless of the deer. If you read my comments from other threads, you would know that age and size don't come from me. They come from places like Bowsite, TV, and publications where we must all kill only old deer. Read the Personal Buck thread as an example. I despise it when people tell others what they should and should not shoot. Today's standards are ruining hunting IMO but that is another thread.

"I don't understand what that^ was all about. What is magical about 20 yards?"

Well, I chose 20 yards because the shots he would typically get at the stands he would be hunting would be no longer than 20 yards. I felt he needed to be proficient at that range before shooting at a deer at that range. To me, this is common sense. I would not want anyone bowhunting or gun hunting for that matter who is not proficient with their weapon. I used that as motivation for him to get prepared to be the best he can be. He was ready to go. I'm not saying I would not let him hunt at 10-15 yards, I just gave him added motivation and he thrived to succeed. He was shooting out to 30 yards when it was said and done.

"I would imagine he did want to call it quits since he was led to believe that deer would die from infection. I agree with the above poster that there was no way to know that. "

No, it was because he knew he made the animal suffer. Whether it dies or not, the animal is still hurt and suffers. Both him and I want to avoid that in hunting. I admire that trait in him.

"Honestly this sounds like a father who doesn't want his child to hunt, you have to many rules (outside the state law) to follow"

That statement can't be any more wrong. I honestly have two rules, A) respect all animals and B) practice so you are the best you can be. My son is told all the time to shoot whatever he wants. I tell him all the time that unfortunately, this will happen again and it happens to everyone. He was hurt and embarrassed being at someone else's land worrying about how they felt and he felt terrible for the deer. We now have our own land. I have chosen to not hunt yet because I am waiting for his high school soccer season to end before I hunt because I will not hunt without him. I want to share any kill, his or mine, with him along with all the pre-hunt and post-hunt times. He is my fishing and hunting partner. You could not be any further from the truth in this regard.

"I kind of felt sorry for the little guy too"

Yeah, so did I. His pain hurt me immensely. We always hurt when our kids hurt. Remember, he wanted to call it quits and that was before I punched his doe tag. He still had a buck tag, 2 in fact, as this was in the UP and I bought him a combo tag. I worked hard to talk him off the ledge and get him back on the horse. I know he is very concerned over this happening again. I tell him it will and it happens to everyone including me. When it happened to me last, I ate that tag too. My choice and I’d do it again. With my son, it would be his choice now.

"Or ethics that make a kid cry at the thought of an infected, suffering deer? "

I am proud of my son for having such respect for the animals. My ethics didn't make him cry. His ethics and respect for all animals did.

I feel bad for those people who don't feel any remorse when they wound an animal, mortally or not, knowing they will stiff suffer to some extent. That ho-hum attitude of sh#$ happens is disturbing to me and great fodder for the antis.

Your right happy! I agree with you 100% some people wipe the blood off the arrow with no remorse of the animal they had wounded. It's more depressing on their half of not claiming their prize. He will never forget it. And I agree with punching the doe tag. But if it ever happens to him on a buck. I hope you'll allow him the opportunity for redemption. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some seemed harsh, your forcing your ethics on him. But a father or mentor should be able to do that. In this case, with a doe and on someone else's land. You did the right thing. Kudos

"And I agree with punching the doe tag. But if it ever happens to him on a buck. I hope you'll allow him the opportunity for redemption. "

Thanks for the comments Nocturnal. Going forward, rest assured, all decisions will be my son's. I have learned from this too, and that is what I set out to do. I really do appreciate everyone's comments and I also like that we've discussed a topic that is pretty split opinion wise in a very civil manner.

I still feel right on the decision on the doe because where we were in the UP was only 1 of 3 DMUs with antlerless tags and they were limited. The herd was greatly reduced there too. I did not buy a doe tag for myself because I would not take one from there. It was not our camp either. He actually had 2 buck tags because he had a combo tag so his season was not over. He still had his WI tags too.

" That ho-hum attitude of sh#$ happens is disturbing to me and great fodder for the antis."

+1, have heard that sort of comment way too often through the years.

Happy, you could have taught him two lessons. Telling him that the deer most likely would die and a tag needed to be foregone was appropriate if you feel that was the thing to do. Then, you could have given him a lesson in humanity and benevolence by punching your tag, giving him a second chance to pursue a sport he apparently loves. That would have really impressed on him your values and your love for him.

Capt Mike,

You seem to have missed where it was mentioned (multiple times at that) that my son still had a buck tag, with it being a combo tag in MI, meaning he still had 2 tags. He also had all his WI tags. I took the MI doe tag from him. Remember, we were in an area of the UP where the herd was greatly reduced, just like northern WI, but some doe tags were available in that DMU. I did not have a doe tag and would not shoot a doe there. The resource was not unlimited and I did not take away his opportunity to continue to hunt in MI or WI. So, there was no need for me to punch my tag. It if would have been a situation where I hit the deer and didn't recover it, I would have punched my tag as I did with my last wounded deer. But that is something I would not expect anyone else to do.

"I still feel right on the decision on the doe because where we were in the UP was only 1 of 3 DMUs with antlerless tags and they were limited. The herd was greatly reduced there too. I did not buy a doe tag for myself because I would not take one from there. It was not our camp either. He actually had 2 buck tags because he had a combo tag so his season was not over. He still had his WI tags too."

Not a big deal if he still had all those tags left. Seems like a known reality for a lost dear going into hunting on another's property. Less ethics and more just the rules of the landowner.

"Less ethics and more just the rules of the landowner. " It was not the rule of the landowner. They encouraged him to continue hunting. They have always been great to my daughter and son and have always told them to shoot any deer they want although they do have self-imposed APRs for themselves. I just didn't feel right going after another doe in an area that was low on does.

James you did great. Kids are never too young to learn ethical behavior or do the right thing. If kids are allowed to use bows and guns to hunt, they must make spit second adult decisions with adult emotional control. Not always easy, even for adults.

Sorry, but I feel it was too harsh punishment for the kid.

NOW, if that was the 3rd doe he wounded last season, I would think differently, but a young hunter wounds a deer while trying to make a quartering away shot ...... gotta give him one mulligan.

If you make it so strict on him that he is scared to shoot, then he might as well not hunt anymore.

I would agree with Dampland

Guess I don't see why it matters that he had another tag, other than the act was relatively meaningless because he was still able to hunt. In any case, your child, your choice.

Edit: I'll point out that the original statement said nothing of where you were hunting or how many tags were available. No mention until the 4th or 5th response from you. Ultimately, it really does not matter as this was your son and your choice.

Personally and in my view, ethics and values are personal. We behave the way we do for ourselves and not for anyone else. Teaching a child ethics is very important but it is personal. Now, while this question may seem inflammatory, it is not meant that way in the least. My question is; why did you choose to publicize this? You already made your choice and it seems your son is no worse for it, so I don't think you are looking for support for your choice.

I think I would have discussed the situation completely with my son and let them make the call on punching the tag and I could be fine with whatever choice he made.

I remember when I was 16 and made a bad shot and lost a deer. I didn't punch my tag but I did hang the bow up for 2+ years. That is not the kind of thing I want my son to go through. I want him to evaluate the situation and make the decision he can live with.

I would think after wounding the deer and now losing his tag, he will be feeling a lot more pressure to be perfect on the next shot and that this will all be on his mind when he is pulling back, increasing the likelihood that he will make a poor shot and potentially decreasing his desire to hunt.

None of us know what is going to happen at that moment we release that arrow or pull the trigger on a gun at an animal. You try (had better try) to do everything before the hunt to make you as efficient as possible to make a humane kill on the animal. But, out in the field, anything can and will happen. You showed your son that after the shot you do everything possible to recover that animal. Honestly, I believe most animals un-recovered from a arrow hit survive. But the best lesson you showed your son is exhaust all methods to search for that animal. You should not have punched that tag.

" My question is; why did you choose to publicize this? You already made your choice and it seems your son is no worse for it, so I don't think you are looking for support for your choice. "

I am absolutely not looking for support. I was simply looking for various opinions, of which I got and appreciate, and to see if others have ever punched a tag due to wounded animals.

Whether he still had the doe tag or not, he will feel more pressure the next time, and not because he didn't have a doe tag. Most people would be worried they'd injure back to back animals. I know when it happened to me, it was a streak I wanted to break, but I did not jump right back into it. This is a new season with renewed enthusiasm for him and he has his confidence back. Confidence plays into this too, in a big way IMO. His was at an all time low when his situation occurred. He did not hunt the remainder of the weekend it happened. I got him to go back out on future weekends after much convincing.

Opinions on this are very split, much like with most hunting topics.

Thanks Happy. To address the question regarding punching of tags, I have never done this to account for an animal that I have wounded. I have, however, consciously used two different out of state tags due to situations I have come across. In Colorado a number of years ago, I was following a herd of elk. As the herd crossed a barbed-wire fence, a calf got stuck in it. By the time I had gotten up to this spot, the calf had thrashed around enough to have broken the rear leg that was entangled. I arrowed it and tagged it. Not really what I was hoping for, especially on the first day of a seven day elk hunt, but I could not leave it and if I shot it I was legally required to tag it.

Second incident was similar in nature but happened in WY on a muzzleloader deer hunt. The landowner came into camp and told us there was a small forkhorn stuck in a fence nearby. Said one of us could shoot and tag it or else just leave it to the coyotes. No one really wanted to burn their tag on that situation but when I walked up and saw it, I couldn't not shoot it. Turned out that deer had broken multiple bones and was so bruised that very little meat was good.

Earlier you had addressed that many outfitters make a client punch their tag if they wound an animal. While I think that some are concerned with the overall population of the herds they hunt, I believe this to be more of a financial choice as compared to a completely managerial one.

In any event, I am sure your son learned something positive from the experience. This will, at the minimum, make him a better steward of the resources throughout his life.

I don't think he will feel more pressure due to not having a doe tag. I think he will feel more pressure knowing that he might get punished again and may not even want to go. I think you made it much worse by taking the tag away. That's just my opinion

Punching his tag was a lesson not a punishment, there is a difference. Two things that you could do to help your son through this first limit his shots to no more than 15 yards. Second if he is in a tree no more than 12 ft. up this will lessen shot angle, a ground blind would be best.

Captain Mike, kudos to you for doing the right thing on wounded animals. I feel confident many others would not have done the same. I did it with a buck with an arrow in its neck a couple years ago. I have pictures in the Objects Found in Deer thread. Once again, well done.

"I don't think he will feel more pressure due to not having a doe tag. I think he will feel more pressure knowing that he might get punished again and may not even want to go. I think you made it much worse by taking the tag away. That's just my opinion "

He was not punished at all. He still had tags. He chose (his choice) not to hunt the rest of the weekend (while he still had the tag) due to lack of confidence and his pain in injuring the deer. I had all I could do to get him back on the horse the following weekend with his buck tag. He also hunted later in WI with a doe and buck tag. We never saw a deer in WI. He understands the population situation where we were and knew does were limited. He never felt punished. He was totally OK with not taking another doe where we were. To be honest too, he was very concerned on having this happen again, doe or buck, on someone else's land because he was also embarrassed about it. He'll feel much more comfortable going forward being on our own land.

He is very excited to hunt again and his confidence is high. He's been shooting well. When he hurt, I hurt. We talk about this regularly and I tell him this will happen again to him and to me. I tell him regularly that I am proud over the remorse he shows for the animals.

Absolutely happy. And when he releases his next arrow. It may be the best hunt he'll expirience yet. He's still a young man and has soo many years ahead to mature as a hunter. You've done a fine job as his mentor. And how does it feel to have to explain yourself over and over. Haha!! As you've explained about your son and the picture above. It's easy to say he loves hunting. And shooting one of the nicest bows Mathews has made. I remember that age like it was yesterday. And the passion it's led me to today. Plus it will keep a young boy out of trouble! A+++++ Raising your boy right!! I'm looking forward to my time with my son. A few more years yet

"Punching his tag was a lesson not a punishment, there is a difference. Two things that you could do to help your son through this first limit his shots to no more than 15 yards. Second if he is in a tree no more than 12 ft. up this will lessen shot angle, a ground blind would be best. "

Interestingly, he told me his plans to mitigate risk and will not take shots unless he gets what he wants from the deer. We do have a ground blind and a couple of the other stands are in the 12' area.

Here's another thing. Around 2 months ago, he told me he was not shooting well and would not hunt shooting how he was shooting. His head is in the right place ethically. We took his bow in for tuning and that was the ticket.

Thanks again for all the opinions and advice. My daughter never took up bow hunting and I'm trying to do my best with him.

"He chose (his choice) not to hunt the rest of the weekend (while he still had the tag) due to lack of confidence and his pain in injuring the deer. I had all I could do to get him back on the horse the following weekend with his buck tag."

The more I read the more I wonder if you had explained all these possibilities to him before he ventured out, as I keep getting the impression a lot of this was explained as/after it went down. "

"We talk about this regularly and I tell him this will happen again to him and to me"

Really? Kinda like telling him that any deer shot and not recovered will have a long suffering death which unfortunately has stuck with him. You don't know that. I would imagine him "knowing" he will wound another one doesn't help his confidence level or urge to hop back on that horse either.

"The more I read the more I wonder if you had explained all these possibilities to him before he ventured out, as I keep getting the impression a lot of this was explained as/after it went down. "

HunterR, you can rest assured that my son was well versed in hunting but he is still young and doesn't take every word to heart or remember every scenario I could explain to him.

He has been with me fishing and hunting since he's been little. He shot a bear at age 10 as part of the LTH Bear program. He shot multiple deer with his gun under the mentor program. He's had lots of experience but he's a youth who still needs to be reminded and learn. As he is aging, he is learning that life has challenges and consequences and is not a bowl of cherries.

"Kinda like telling him that any deer shot and not recovered will have a long suffering death which unfortunately has stuck with him. "

I have never told him that once. You are assuming I have. He knows an injured deer will most likely suffer to some extent. I'm willing to bet that if you were shot with a bow and a broadhead, it would hurt for some time and without proper treatment, you might even get an infection. He's been around enough hunters and has read enough to come to a lot of his own conclusions. However, I still feel that if you are in an area with limited resources, then you don't get to keep going until you get it right. That is my approach, but the decision would squarely fall on him going forward. He was perfectly acceptable to it last time and I know he'd feel the same. It the area was loaded with does, then maybe this takes on a different outcome.

And yes, I do tell him it will happen again to him and me and most everyone who hunts long enough. That is just preparing him for the inevitable and helps make him understand that it is OK when this happens because it really is a common occurrence. Most everyone in this thread has iterated that as well. That piece of knowledge only motivates him more and would never make him ho-hum because he cares too much about the animals.

I personally think you are simply nitpicking my comments now and will continue to because you don't like me and you have that right as I opened myself up to it. I will continue to add context when appropriate and correct misinformation. If people read this thread and get a take-away in either direction (I like what happy did, or happy F'ed up and I'd never do that), then this thread served its purpose. Your comments are always welcome.

"And yes, I do tell him it will happen again to him and me and most everyone who hunts long enough."

Anyone who would say otherwise is ignorant to the thousands of potential scenarios that could play out and result in a wounded animal. Happy, I think most of us understand the context in which you meant that comment. I agree, it sounds as though he is just picking nits. (There, I used the word ignorant again!)

What's ignorant is stating that every single person who hunts long enough will wound and lose an animal. I personally know people who have hunted their whole lives (some that are not with us today) and never wounded and lost an animal.

"I personally think you are simply nitpicking my comments now and will continue to because you don't like me and you have that right as I opened myself up to it."

Happy rest assured I haven't thought about you enough to "not like you." It's all good. ;-)

Well HunterR that's great for whomever you've known to do that. But the truth is, if you have archery hunted long enough. It will happen, as CaptMike said 1000 different scenarios can lead to this.

You are 100% correct HunterR that there are no absolutes in those statements. There are exceptions but I think the odds point to it happening for most who hunt a lot. I too am guilty of reading every statement as black and white at times.

"I too am guilty of reading every statement as black and white at times."

Happy you typed "this will happen again" there is nothing but black and white in that statement.

Hunter, hope you are not trying to be obnoxious because it seems to come to you naturally.

I have not posted in months avoiding bottom feeders but this thread a is amazing. Hypocrites? As anyone here wounded animal and cut a tag/stopped hunting? Someone posted they had a buddie who never wounded an animal? Myopic bs. If you hunt more than 5 days you will wound and not recover. Should will all do everything to know effective range? Yep. So we decide to cut a tag and bring a teen to tears? Over 40 years, 800 bowkills on the same dirt and most survive. So the lesson was dad never wounded? Dont release until u know its a kill? Pius bs. I feel sorry for the kid. What did he do wrong exactly? Bad equipment? Not enough practice from dad? So no positive responses from anyone here who has wounded an animal, therefore there will be no response.any wonder why we have problems saving the sport with hunter recruitment? Dad, please cut your tag and take yourself out of the next seasons where you wounded a deer in the past. Goodluckin 2027. 100 plus bowkills here and yes, shit happens. Care to slap some hundies down on a 3d? Which btw has nothing to do with real treestand shit happens. Anyone who who wounds a deer in the next 8 weeks please dont post here for 8 months. Goodluck with that.

I know quite a few bowhunters and there isn't one of them that has not wounded a deer and not had the luck to recover the deer...self included.

Happy - life is short and the times we spend in the woods together grow shorter each day that passes.

Losing/wounding game is just a fact of life for many of us. No one wants that to happen, but it does. This will not be the last deer your son wounds and fails to retrieve.

I was in the same boat several years ago with my son and he as well felt so very sad about the whole thing.

But what we need to rmemeber is that this is part of hunting - no one wants it to be, but it is.

Best of Luck!

After 46 years of bowhunting, participating in many deer and bear camps, having been asked to help track hundreds and hundreds of deer and bear for others, I will tell you that my best guess is an 80% recovered kill rate when blood is drawn. That basically means we recovered roughly eight out of ten animals which were wounded with an arrow. That does not include misses, this is only known animals where a drop of blood was located after the shot was taken.

Wounding animals should always be minimized by practice, shot selection etc.......... but it happens to the best of bowhunters.

The first buck I ever shot at was a year and a half old 8 pointer. I hit the buck, but I had no clue as to where (buck fever had me very excited as a 12 year old). We tracked and tracked and tracked, but never found the buck. I felt absolutely terrible and couldnt sleep for the next few nights trying to re run the situation in my head. We've all been through it and its terrible.

A day later my Dad got a call from the landowner (my grandfather) and he asked that I not bowhunt on his land for the remainder of the year. We obviously obliged, and I was crushed. I hung up the bow and called it quits for the year.

In hindisght, I completely understand the thought process and concern of the landowner, however I would never be able to tell a 12 year old that he was no longer allowed to hunt on my property because he wounded a buck. It was quite evident that I was upset (based on the tears rolling down my face), but I still think to this day it was somewhat unnecessary to completely kick me off the land. I would never kick a kid when he is down which is exactly how I felt. My Dad was so upset by the decision that he also quit hunting the land for the year. My Dad spoke with my Grandfather a few weeks later and explained to him that he would not be hunting out there for the rest of the season. He explained that there is already a lot of pressure on a bowhunter to make a perfect shot and to have the thought of being kicked off the land for possibly hitting a deer and not finding it only adds to that. My Dad was as upset as I was and he couldnt believe that his father would belittle his grandson over a deer, which he explained to him. Our relationship changed for a while and we were distant for the next few months.

In hindight I can understand what he was trying to do. It served as a good lesson on ethics, but at the same time, it was also very demoralizing. Unfortunatly, any bowhunter who has hunted long enough that says he has shot a deer and not found it is either A. a liar, or B. hasnt hunted long enough. Some of the greatest lessons we learn as bowhunters come from our misfortunes/mistakes in the field. I have learned a lot more about deer hunting from the misses or unfortunate mistakes compared to the successes I've had in the field.

Happygolucky, I completely support your decision (and from the sounds of it, your son's decision) to punch the tag, however I hope he is able to put it past him and move on. This mistake will serve as a huge learning lesson, and based on my experience it will hang with him for a long time. I look at some of the racks/mounts that are hanging throughout my house and they serve as good reminders of excellent days in the field, however, its the misses or bad shots that stick with me. I think about "the one that got away" more often than the bucks that I've killed. I think these are the thoughts that make me a better hunter. They serve as good reminders of the importance of shooting my bow a lot and being well prepared before entering the woods. The only thing that will make him feel better about the situation is to get back in the stand and stick another one, and I hope he does soon.

Best of luck to you and your son. Post some pictures when he gets back in the tree and harvests another one!

I'll put this out there. You all can flame away, make accusations, or imagine you know what I am thinking. We as hunters will make errors, it HAPPENS. $HIT happens. Last year at a distance of 25 yards (slam dunk range) on a very slightly quartering away bull I pulled the arrow a couple inches to the right. Didn't see it hit, but had bright red blood at the impact and for the first hundred yards. We fanned out when we lost blood and my hunting partner found the arrow a couple hundred yards away.The broadhead was broke out of the arrow, with the sidewall of the arrow actually being split where the head pulled through it. Arrow is still full length. No way in Hell I am punching my tag or expecting/asking/telling someone else to punch theirs. That bull should have lived......however I would imagine a fly could land on the wound, it could get infected, it COULD die. Does it bother me that I drew blood and didn't recover it? Absolutely. Do I think that a tag should be punched because I didn't' recover it, no way. I don't care if it's a NR tag and trip that costs $620 tag, $300 fuel, $500 miscellaneous or all Resident fees with little associated cost, I don't think the tag should be punched. Unless you are purposely going out there and hammering arrows beyond your effective range, or being irresponsible, that you should feel like you have to quit or give up hunting because of an error. Use it as a learning experience and move on. When we have all of our homeless vets taken care of, our homeless people off the streets, our welfare issues solved, then maybe we should start getting a little more worried about micro-managing our lives. I'm not trying to minimize misses and wounded animals, not at all. Just don't take away from the experience that was presented or take the chance of making it a negative experience for your son/daughter/whomever. Again its your kid, do as YOU feel needed.

I should also add, the buck I hit was shot with a rifle during by a member of our hunting party during the 9 day gun season. My broadhead and part of the arrow were found buried into the right shoulder of the buck. Didnt help my feelings any, but we were glad the buck was taken and we found out the shot I made didnt kill him.

+1, Elkaddict.

The choice you made with your son, is YOUR choice... I totally respect your decision.

I am sure that the hit deer will burn into your son's memory, like it or not. It's part of our passion and love for the game we hunt. Hunting, like life, is full of adversity and hardships that you simply cannot prepare for no matter what. When things go wrong, as they will, the future depends on how you pick yourself up off the floor and carry yourself moving forward.

My buddies and I were hunting on some public land and two hunters walked in on me. The first saw me waved his hand and left like we all should do and the other walked in saw me waved and walked strait down the hill 166 yrds and set up on a tree ground level in the open and stayed there. I had a nice buck come into my right and was about 4 yrds from popping out into my shooting lane when he froze looked down and saw the idiot moving around. This is a good lesson on ethics of hunting.

Elkin, I sometimes wonder if incidents like that are more a result of ignorance instead of poor ethics.

Elkin, and if that buck walked another 4 yds into your shooting lane, froze cause he saw the idiot moving, leaving you with an easy draw and shot release you'd be telling the guy thanks. That's just the chance you take hunting public land or urban areas that allow hunting.

Fawn? Looks like a good doe to me. Great first kill. Congrats to your son on his first kill. If it were my son, I would definately not punch his tag for 1 bad shot. Everyone makes a bad shot at some point. It happens and we learn from it. If your too hard on the kid, he may end up not liking hunting. He will learn from this experience but there's no need to take his tag away. He's still learning. Just curious, how long did u wait to track that deer?

The deer was around 6 months old and I call all same birth-year deer fawns. I call all deer 1 year old yearlings. I celebrated his kill. He was concerned over what others might think.

Here we go again. I am not hard on my son. I was not hard on my son. My son chose not to hunt the rest of the weekend and I had all I could do to get him back on the horse. He still had 2 buck tags in MI. He still had both WI tags. He received nothing but support. Here is why the tag was not used - We were in an area with very limited does (much like northern WI) and a reduced herd and I mitigated risk thinking of the herd. He understands the herd too and I feel pretty certain he would not have shot at another doe anyway. He was not taken behind the shed and switched ala Adrian Peterson. If I was on my own land, I might have even rendered a different decision. He cares about the big picture and not just his kills and so do I. I ate my last tag when I wounded one - my choice and something I would not expect anyone else to do. The kid killed a bear at age 10 and killed deer at ages, 10, 11 (2), 12, and 13 (bow kill) via mentored hunting rules in MI when he was 10 and 11. Last year was his first without a kill. He understands hunting and the whole gambit of what it involves. He's been around lots of hunters and knows how people talk.

We waited 1 hr to track the deer because A) he thought he made a good shot and B) we had good blood from the start. We found 1/2 of the arrow, the back end, part way through the tracking. We did not kick up the doe while tracking and it did not bed, at least we did not find a bed. We had 4 people tracking across the 2 days. We completely lost blood which once was very promising.

I chose not to say anything because my buddy was talking to him first and I didn't want to get in a heated debate , its just not worth it these days. Move on and get it next time. Its our only public land hunt anyways for the year. That area is just our annual get away as friends. Private property here on out.. Good luck guys and have a great year.

Well if the deer pop is hurting in that area u probably did the right thing. You teach your son good hunting ethics in conservation. It's important that we teach good hunting ethics. Good luck the rest of the year. Hope he gets a big buck to make up for it.

Interesting stuff...

Here's a thought however to muddy the waters....

If your a pheasant hunter and you wound and do not retrieve your bird...go home?

You wound a duck...don't retrieve it...do you shoot one less duck that day?

Your grouse hunting and you knock down two grouse and don't retrieve either one...do you make them part of you daily limit.

You roll a gobbler on opening day and he gets up and runs off, cannot fly - is your season down when this happens on the opener?

Should this mind set only apply to deer?

You tell me.....

My opinion-

I would never throw a tag away due to a wounded deer and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone else to either. Now if the kid had a cavalier attitude and was taking risky shots and was wounding animals repeatedly I might not let him hunt anymore, but I wouldn't add insult to injury by taking his tag away if he was being responsible and showing remorse. Everyone makes mistakes.

Just my opinion.

Wow Tough lessons for sure. Sometimes it's the manner in which the message is delivered. Mistakes are made in the field and it is not punishment but an acknowledgment to the value of the resource.

We know our kids and how to deliver the message. Done correctly the young man or lady will gain more respect for the animal, hunting and privileges we have.

Still a difficult call that I can understand the struggle.

Keep taking your kids hunting everyone

Bottom line -

Wounding deer and failing to recover them "is" part of the hunt. If you haven't experienced it, you will.

No one, and I mean no one wants to wound an animal and not recover it, but it happens and there is little we can do other than practice more and rehearse our shots for further encounters.

In the meantime, don't beat yourself up - your not alone. With a little luck, that deer or elk will recover and live to hunt another day.

Could have, should have, would have is all Monday morning quarter back!

Pick yourself up - dust off and get back on that horse!

Happy, Take pride in the way you teach your son. There are many ways to raise a child and taking them in the woods at all is a step in the right direction if you ask me.

I know I have wounded a couple deer before and ran myself ragged trying to recover them. I was a self taught bow hunter. I didn't start bow hunting until I got out of the Army. My father didn't take up bow hunting until he saw how much I fell in love with it. I learned the hard way how much more practice and shot placement awareness come into play with bow hunting. I was not a sniper but qualified for it with a rifle. I have also arrowed and tagged a clearly wounded doe even though the meat might be tainted in order to hopefully put another hunters mind at ease.

The best thing I have seen while reading all of the posts following yours was you explained to your son what your views were on it. It is now up to him. Isn't that a terrible thing( sarcasm) You made your beliefs known and yes you made him follow them the first time and now you let him make his own mind up. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. If more people tried someone else's way before making up their mind we would have less ill will in our world. I applaude you for your parenting. And I will tell you this It has opened my eyes and I intend to try your method at least once so I am more empowered with teaching my son and step son when the time comes.

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