Luck at the lease
West Virginia
Contributors to this thread:
One of our lease members, and fellow WVBA members Brandon Vance killed a GREAT buck this morning in Mingo county. I figure it's 5.5 yrs. old.
I'm not telling anyone what to do!!! But this is what happens when ther're not shot at 2.5 and can get a little bit of age on them, EVEN in WV.
Couldn't have happened to a fine guy. Big congrats to Brandon on a dandy, mature WV whitetail!
Great buck and a great guy!
Brandon kicked off the day with his drop tine buck and his son, Brenton, and I finished it with a couple more mature bucks of our own. Brenton's was a 3-year-old and mine was a 4-year-old that I have a long history with passing when he was 2 and 3 years old. What a day to remember!
Always nice when a plan comes together. Congratulations.
holy smokes!!!! awesome, congrats!
Wow nice fellows. Truly awesome deer.
thanks, guys. I still can't believe it all came together like it did on the same day for all 3 of us.
took us 5 years passing small bucks to get our lease to have this quality of bucks! wish we could do it state wide.....good job guys rosy you deserve to kill that buck with all the hard work you have done..... i hope someone gets that big one you had on camera earlier in fall
I'm holding out for that one.
I think I could have got it today if the rain didn't run me out of the stand. LOL
Thanks, Georgie! It would tickle me to death to see you put your tag on that other one. Well, that is if Smokey-poo doesn't beat you to it. :)
Rosy? Georgie? Smokey-Poo? Apparently, the rut is upon us. Lol
Great bucks!
It's what happens after you all stay at the cabin when it rains too many days in a row. LOL
I passed a 9 this am. Small 2.5 yr old. About 15 inches with 8 inch tines. It's a lot easier to pass when you know there are MUCH bigger ones running around.
Congrats to all on the great deer. God Bless
Passed up an 8 this evening, about same size as 9. 2.5 yr old
add Shawn Deer to the list of lucky hunters on the lease this year. He got this brute on Sunday, the same day Brandon and I got our bucks.
This week is getting to the beyond-our-wildest-dreams point. Congrats to Roger Maynard and his absolute giant that he put his tag on today on our lease.
Edit regarding my buck. I found out that it may be a 6-year old. Scrub bucks lives matter! lol! He sure did some growing and sure surprised me.
Yes "scrub" and "cull" bucks do grow up if they're not shot at 1.5 and 2.5 yrs. of age.
It's been 5 yrs. in the making with management and a lot of release control on the lease by members but it is paying off 100-fold. The bucks that are falling is comparable to about anywhere in the nation.
I understand that I am a bit biased but I think it is pretty good proof of what CAN be done in WV.
I haven't killed one YET this year because the right one hasn't come by yet.
I agree gobbler . We can do it here. Just has to be managed for that.
Those are studs. And, the results of hard work and dedication. Congrats to all the lucky hunters. God Bless
thanks, guys. It has been a blast working with a small group of guys who have a common vision in mind to hunt mature bucks that are part of a healthy herd. We have a 130 inch minimum or 5 years of age. We all chose our individual core areas and respect each other's hunting spots. We share trail camera photos to keep track of and inventory all our bucks. We worked together to do some habitat improvements (not giant food plots or year round feeders, just small hand built plots and some supplemental feeding to pull them through the roughest winters). Since 2011 we had only killed 3 bucks total on the property. Many were taken by trespassing poachers, winter, etc. However, we practiced, as Smokey put it, trigger control as that was all we had control over. The rewards are obviously amazing. We all deserve better statewide and can have it. This is proof.
and from trail cam pictures the biggest one on our property hasn't been killed yet,,,,
add Clifford Bennett to the list of buck killers on our lease this week. Unfortunately, he was not able to recover his buck until the following day and by then coyotes had eaten much of it.
I killed this one yesterday at the lease
Good looking buck Mike, congratulations.
is that ol porn star....the deer not you...hee hee
wvmule's Link
6 bucks and 2 does in 7 days and still lots of hunting to go. There should be plenty of room for the elk when we wrap up this season. ha!
Congrats Mike on getting Porn Star. For those wondering how he got his name follow the link to a video from last year.
Mike's buck and my buck in early August.
don't want to pry to much but, just really curious is that a WV lease? if so is it in the 4 bowhunt only counties?
Yes in mingo logan counties
congrats you have a good thing going
Thanks, Huntmaynard. We are starting all over again next year on another piece of bow-zone land. We really hate to have to move on but that is the way it goes with leasing. One never knows what awaits our next adventure. However, there is no doubt that a 1 buck limit and QDM works. Everyone in WV deserves more of what we have experienced.
Nice looking deer. Could you tell me how much land and how many members you had to produce these results?
About 2,000 acres and 20 people. The acreage fluctuated based on coal mining and the membership went up and down a few members too. We had the property since 2011. Had lots of large bucks vanish during that time. Who knows what happened. We, as everybody in WV, had some trespassing and poaching issues. Also, one winter was really rough with no food. We would not have shot all of these bucks this year if we were not losing the lease.
Impressive +30% success rate. Do you think you took 1/4 1/2 or didnt touch the number of mature bucks on the lease? Sorry to hear you no longer have the lease. Sucks to have to start over. Did you lose out to more money or a company change?
very impressive bucks and sorry you are losing the lease also. But I am going to play devil's advocate here - see where most of you all are saying 1 buck limit and QDM works. My question is - is it really a 1 buck limit and QDM or could it possibly be that it is a bow only area??? If this same lease had a 1 buck limit and practiced QDM but guns were allowed - would the success be the same? I know we will never know but I am one who thinks being a limited range weapon area makes more of a difference than the other 2 combine (that is 1 buck limit and QDM).
Good question ! In a pure scenario I think with the bow being a shorter range weapon it would make a difference. However, if you look at OH and KY they have a 1 buck limit and gun hunting and it works there.
wvmule, are you looking for any new members on your new lease?
Once again I am just a dumb ole boy but if rifles were allowed in the bow only areas where they are not allowed more deer would be killed. And if you reduce the buck limit from 3 to 2 or 1 in areas where the rifle is already legal there will be less bucks killed.
gobbler's Link
This is why we are losing the lease.
Those doggone elk! LOL
I hate losing the lease, but I love the plan of having elk in WV.
But these are multi-million dollar companies doing multi-million dollar deals . Hunting leases are not even a blip on their radar.
JayD, sorry for the late reply. I think it is the perfect scenario in southern WV. However, the deer down there have to dodge plenty of bullets. I think the 1 buck limit is a huge help but we also had a 130 inch or 5-year-old limit, whichever came first, on our lease. So, QDM was an extra benefit to our hunting quality. I think with each reduction in weapon distance one would also see an increase in buck quality and age. Does that answer your question?
after jumping all around on guessing the age on my buck I have settled on him being a 5-year-old. QDM helped this buck go from what some may call a scrub when younger to this chunky monkey. He picked up around 1 inch per mass measurement and tine length along with an extra point going from an estimated gross of 116 to an actual gross green of 132. Plus the amount of weight he put on was substantial. This deer would have been passed on previous years because of our lease restrictions regardless of weapon. That is why I would say QDM is the top priority. They have to get age on them regardless of what one kills them with. Hopefully that helps answer your question a little more.
dbaxa, based on trail camera inventory I would say that we didn't even kill 1/4 of the 3-year-olds or older. As far as money...we don't know how that is going to shake out and are not holding our breath. Such is the risk with leased land, I guess.
Choice of weapon , and timing of gun hunts help deer get older.
States such as Iowa that are shotgun or muzzleloader only and timing ther gun hunts until after the rut will increase buck age thus leading to older and bigger bucks. You can throw OHIO in there too.
General rifle hunts during the rut is tough on bucks!!!!!
Even general muzzleloading hunts during the rut is tough in them. It's taken a toll in VA. Yes a FEW big ones are taken each year, but it's been tough on the overall number of mature bucks.
wvmule's Link
HUNTMAYNARD, the property we are moving to is smaller. So, all of us will not be able to make the transition. It doesn't hurt to ask but we will not have room for new members at this time. Check into The Forestland Group and Plum Creek. They have web sites that show what land they have available to lease.
I wish everyone who wants their hunting to be like what we have would get behind the movement to lower the buck limit. There is no shortage of examples of what WV can produce if the bucks are given a chance to mature. My buck is not a record book monster but it is the perfect example of what we should be able to grow anywhere in WV if they are given a chance to mature. On top of that there will be plenty more larger bucks available too. Some people think a lower buck limit is designed by selfish hunters who are trying to take away hunting experiences while the truth is it will increase and improve experiences.
Sorry, I got off topic there but it is very relevant. I have included a link to the online petition for a lower buck limit in WV. Please sign it if you have not already.
Babysaph, spot on. Plus, if less bucks are killed more will reach maturity. I believe this will lead to a cultural shift for many hunters in WV just as has happened in numerous other states.
Agree
It's not about trying to have a 150 behind every tree. That never occurs in free range deer herds. It's not even about trying to have more deer. It's about balancing the buck/doe ratio and having more mature bucks in the population of bucks that we already have.
A perfect scenario would be, if there were 100 bucks
Have 20% 1.5
20%-2.5
20%-3.5
20%-4.5
20%-5.5 and above
If that could be achieved it would be a win-win for everyone.
JMO
Oh man Gobbler - I think you are spot on about the timing and type of gun used! I have been saying that for years - would love to see our gun season coming in a week later and only last a week!
My own opinion is bow only makes the biggest difference if it were between being bow, QDM and 1 buck limit, but we all have our opinions. LOL
For you all you had the right choice of everything - right pick on members, good QDM plan and it was in bow only areas so that is great.
I am just not big on the 1 buck limit - I think with a 2 buck limit and antler restrictions on both bucks you would see nearly the same results as a one buck limit. And then I can still hunt in my own state for another nice buck and stay near my family. Plus it helps someone in my shoes when a buck walks by with a 4 inch hole in his neck I can make an easy decision to shoot and not have to think about using a 1 buck tag on the animal! I have to admit it would cause me to think should I shoot and put animal down humanely or save my tag for the buck I want? While thinking you could lose the opportunity to take a shot at the injured animal. I have done this 2 times in the last 3 years now! And several other times in the past - change my limit on bucks and I may think - man should I waste my tag or let mother nature take its course?
JayD, having antler restrictions on 2 bucks OR a 1 buck limit is an interesting idea . I'll have to think on that a bit, but that might be a viable option to achieve the same result . I think it would work better if there were a somewhat higher fee associated with the second buck tag?
Let me chew on that for a while.
And put a hefty fine for not obeying the law. Half the fine goes to whoever turned them in. :)
Something like that could work. A free deer tag or something like that.
Antler restrictions on all bucks is no good. It is hard enough to judge a deer when you have been hunting 20+ years. What about the opportunity and hunting experience for young hunters?
Why, it has worked well in PA?
It works on all of our WMAs that have them?
Multiple other states have gone to them and it's working well. What is so different about WV that it won't work here?
We already have antler restrictions and it's simple, one antler over 3". We could just as easily require 3 points or more on one side and most hunters could judge them. The only problem I see would be enforcing the a r's with the electronic check in. It works pretty well on a small scale with the wma's because honest hunters live with the fear of getting caught with an illegal buck.
It may depend on what your goal is to determine if it works or not. I don't think just because things work in other states that they will work here. I did not say NO restrictions but I think first should be any buck of your choice.
Pawpaw, no disrespect intended seriously, but in my opinion that line of thinking is why WV is almost on the bottom of the list on any of a number of categories. Business, employment, manufacturing, and I'll add buck management to the list.
If better buck management works in other states, but you don't think it will work in WV, then give me your top 5 reasons why you think it won't?
When you get done with your list, I'll explain why I think each one is wrong.
Most other states went thru the same fears and concerns but ended up being happy with the results. If Alabama can go from 1 buck a day for a 3-4 month season and not self destruct, It might be tough but ain't think WV would survive going from 3-2. I may be wrong.
Well I see a problem here. Buck management is not a real problem that should be associated with those other issues. I thought we were talking about deer hunting.
I did not say anywhere that buck management will not work in WV. I just said I did not like antler restrictions on the first deer. I have never said what all management ideas I have so why would you assume I would not be for a 2 buck limit? I said one time a while back that I like the potential to harvest a buck with 3 different weapons. And I still do but could i settle for a 2 buck limit. Over the last 6 years including this one I have killed 6 bucks. That is including 3 this year. All what I believe to be 3.5 or older. Just threw that out there because I wanted everyone to know I don't kill 3 spikes every year.
My mistake and misunderstanding . I thought when you said that just because things work in other states didn't mean they would work here was about lower limits and/or antler restrictions. My Bad!
I've killed 1 buck in the last 3 years in WV, and unless I have some late season luck at the lease in Mingo that will be the only one.
The one I killed was 3.5, and my wife's was 4.5. She hasn't killed one in 3 years either.
We decided not to kill any on our farm the previous 2 years because we wanted a bump in age structure and it worked. I passed up close to 60(many were same bucks), I passed up a half dozen 3.5 yr old 8s cause I was waiting for one of the 2 10s and one 11 that I knew were there. It's all about choice, and I didn't kill a buck with my bow on the farm. I could have dozens of times but I chose not to. I did shoot 2 does with my bow. I feel fine about that because next year should be even more fun than this year even if I don't shoot a buck again on the farm. I think I will though.
another buck went down on the lease. This young man was my guest this weekend and killed his biggest buck to date. He passed on some younger bucks but couldn't resist this 3-year-old.
I know you are losing your lease here but since it is becoming WMA - you can still hunt it next year though right? Well along with anyone else....
Yes, we can hunt it next year. However, most of us "deer hunt" year round by shed hunting, food plotting, and running trail cameras on top of hunting during the season. All of our access outside of foot traffic is being cut off. So, it will be very difficult to make it to a lot of our core areas for day hunts. We will no longer have some security for our stands and cameras to be left for extended time. We will no longer be able to maintain food plots or improve habitat. So, we are cashing in on our years of investment there, moving elsewhere, and starting over.