from top of the world to doomsday
West Virginia
Contributors to this thread:
how can I be so overly joyed on Tuesday (see 2015 meatpole) and then be so overly saddened on Wednesday. im not trying to start a war, but below will happen more frequently if they lower the buck harvest in my county. i made her as comfortable as i could but there was just no hope
What does this have to do with buck limits? What is this? I fail to see any correlation with lower buck limits? Does this not happen in South Carolina because of a higher buck limit? Does this happen more often in Kentucky because of a lower buck limit?
lets look at the numbers for Monroe county buck harvest. im sure you have that info corey. we usually rank in the top ten in buck kills for the state and gobbler can agree that with a three buck limit there are still a plethora of the bone heads running around this county. hell i own five acres and have killed 8's and 10's for 13 years and im still killing 8's and ten's and there are still plenty, or more bluntly, way too many bucks running around. SO, lets say your dream of trophy hunting comes true and the state reduces the buck harvest to one buck a year. you understand how many dam bucks are going to be running around the dam place? you think the person that hit this deer was mad, there will be 5 times as many pissed off people because of the population increase from non harvest. what you are gonna argue with me is that reducing the buck harvest will produce bigger bucks, and that's true. but that is not what is best for the herd and the earth. balance and habitat and again, speaking for my county, reducing the number of deer killed so Charlie can chase his dream of a wallhanger, is not the appropriate solution to a healthy herd, but rather a greedy way to be able to get what you want. one buck works in the southern counties. reducing the number of bucks killed in this and many other counties will only result in more vehicle related incidents, which isn't good for either side, and an off balance herd with the earth not being able to sustain the habitat to support the population.
with the current limits we have in place, drive down 219, rt. 3, zenith road, etc. on a calm overcast fall afternoon and just count the number of deer. i still believe, and gobbler can correct me if im wrong, that the biologists still have a lot of say as to how to mange the herd. why don't we let them decide whats best and support their decisions? again i say, we used to have a five buck limit and look where we are at, more bucks than ever. people come to wv to hunt deer. its a rich tradition.
Sorry, you must have posted just before I hit send.
No sarcasm, i was truly devastated watching this little girl die..it's amazing how one animal can make you so happy and so sad. Seriously though there is a reason we are allowed to kill 7 or 8 or whatever it is in much of the state...they are overly plentiful! And I have seen the biologists make changes midstream based on the herd so you can't tell me it's ALL for the money or we would still be killing 5 bucks...Corey did you get that changed to? ;) dern I think I am starting a war with myself lol cheers lol knock em down its that magical time
No sarcasm, i was truly devastated watching this little girl die..it's amazing how one animal can make you so happy and so sad. Seriously though there is a reason we are allowed to kill 7 or 8 or whatever it is in much of the state...they are overly plentiful! And I have seen the biologists make changes midstream based on the herd so you can't tell me it's ALL for the money or we would still be killing 5 bucks...Corey did you get that changed to? ;) dern I think I am starting a war with myself lol cheers lol knock em down its that magical time
You control deer populations by doe harvest and not by buck harvest.
I'm glad to be the scapegoat of your frustration. Still fail to see the correlation with a roadkill deer though.
Well I hate to see that too. I shot a deer here in Pendlton county with CWD several years ago. He was pitiful. He walked under my treestand and I put him out of his misery.
I've killed a doe hit on the side of the road with a broken pelvis with a crack of a tire iron to her head before. Sure didn't bother me cause I felt I was being humane. That was before I started packing a pistol in my pocket everywhere I go now which I used to kill one with beside the road with the same problem 3-4 months ago right below my house here in Elkview. After checking with DNR law enforcement first of course.
I thought the Twilight Zone ended years ago??
Does are mommy deer and when the mommy deer meets up with a buck(which is a daddy deer) in November they get together and make little baby deer that are delivered by a stork in a little basket around the first of June. The little baby deer can be little boy deer or little girl deer. Many people call them fawns. Now, if the mommy deer are killed by hunters either before or after they meet up with a daddy deer she won't have any little baby deer. If ENOUGH mommy deer are killed then there will be less little baby deer brought by the stork. That is how deer population control is done.
Don't worry shakey the insurance companies agree with u. A reduction in the buck limit won't happeen. Besides the DNR needs the money. I'll go to Montana.
But I don't think the insurance companies feel that bad about it.
JR, why are u at your cabin and not in Montana? LOL
And I think they have insurance companies in Montana, Iowa, Kansas, Illinois, Idaho, and maybe even in Alberts and Sasketchewan.
Already been to Montana., and the do have insurance companies in those states. They just don't diictate what happens like here.,
It's not all the insurance companies it's the farm bureau too. Lol
I know, LOL
Are u still hunting the milk river? How are the deer coming back after the big EHD die off ?
Yes. Better. Some areas are better than others. Saw some nice deer but no shots. Deer numbers are definitely down. Better than last year though.
"Truth is, I'm always saddened when I kill an animal. It's not remorse I feel... I know why I'm a hunter. It's out of respect." - Donnie Vincent
Sean,
You seem very concerned about the population of deer in Monroe. So concerned that to my knowledge you have taken two bucks but zero does. Maybe harvest a doe in your county before you tell me I'm going to ruin your county. Maybe even go for the doe limit if you are concerned about overpopulation.
If that deer is dying from starvation at this time of year, Monroe County has a serious problem! Of course, nature will eventually take care of it herself.
corey, that's your problem buddy, your perception gets the best of you. its all about what you think. you have no idea what i have killed, only what i have posted. i think a better way to approach life is not too assume but to ask. corey, i have taken my mandatory doe before my second buck. corey my son, my nephew, my fater in law have taken does on my place. that makes 4 does and 2 bucks. corey, right now i cant count on both hands and feet how many bucks are running around my place. corey, currently there are 7 deer dead on the road from my house to work in 4 miles. 3 does and 4 bucks, and that doesn't include the 5 i seen chasing and the 4 that are standing outside of my workplace in the field. corey, we will be a leader in the state for bucks killed again this year in this county. corey, we have a deer problem, and you wanna lessen the amount of deer killed! corey why i am i even explaining this to you
corey, go find a biologist that will agree that a 1-2 buck limit will make this county better off with regards to a healtier herd per habitat available and i will leave you alone :)
I must be getting challenged in my comprehension skills as I get older. I've read this thread a few times and I still don't know what point is trying to be made.
I'm thinking it's point is, if more bucks are killed there will be less auto/deer crashes?????
there are two points jim, first, it saddened me to see this and i think donnies quote explains it purty well. second, reducing the deer harvest will only increase the collisions. drop the buck harvest to 1 and leave the doe harvest where it is and see what happens in this county. is there not a biologist on this site who will chime in? please?
Again, I think it's reruns of "The Twilight Zone".
I too give a moment of respect for an animal I hunt and kill. I realize that I took a life on PURPOSE.
That said, if I have to kill a deer that has been hit on the side of road and can't move because of a broken pelvis , broken legs, or internal injuries I do it as quick and safely as I can as to not draw attention and maybe create another accident from gawkers. A DNR officer should be notified first.
With that said I don't get teary eyed over it cause I feel I'm doing the humane thing for the animal.
i don't think i ever mentioned being teary eyed. did you do the same for the people that came in with the same kind of injuries? the humane thing? club em in the head then call time of death? in the right hands the deer could have been saved. she was young enough to bounce back, but id be the one to go to jail for trying and the dnr state police would have just shot her (and there is a reason for that, see "too many deer" comments above)
im getting old and starting to care to much smokey. catch and release has ruined me lol
Glad you killed some does. I did say to my knowledge.
As a matter of fact, I do have a biologist that agrees with me.
Who said anything about reducing deer harvest? Buck harvest and deer harvest are two different things. The population can be controlled with doe harvest. Just have to have people willing to kill does.
so, just to be straight, we reduce the buck harvest to 1 (that's the goal i would think with the trophy hunters). that means they will have to increase the doe harvest to compensate for more bucks being able to survive right? i mean they would have to based on the theory of does controlling the buck population. so if the scenario is right i would think you would be pushing for an increased doe harvest as well as your trophy program. but your not.
i guess in the end, it comes down to, how in the hell is me shooting three bucks on my 5 acres going to affect your hunting in Nicholas county? i would think it be more appropriate for myself and my surrounding landowners to see what our goals are for this area and manage accordingly based on the laws the dnr lays out. and its obivious they think we have a healthy supply of bucks in Monroe county or they would have already initiated a reduction.
Personally, I'm for a higher buck limit of two with apr on the second.
Who said I don't feel we need to harvest more does in most counties?
Poaching in Monroe County doesn't truly affect me either but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.
First, no one ever said that it was about so-called trophy hunting? If I remember correctly , they want a deer herd that is more balanced in age structure with a higher percentage of mature deer, and a herd that is more balanced in buck/doe ratio. Yes, that would require a higher harvest in a lot of counties but not all. There are still some counties that need to bounce back some from overly aggressive doe harvest. Mercer and Tucker are a couple that I can think of off the top of my head.
No, I never clunked a patient over the head with a tire iron although there were a few that I wish I had especially a couple that hit me, but I had really good drugs that I used instead.
I appreciate and practice catch and release most of the time when I fish but I think it's a stretch to relate a lip caught brown trout with a deer laying in the road with a broken pelvis that is splayed out in the back legs such that they can't move them much less stand up. Who is going to pay to haul a deer to a vet that specializes in traumatic orthopedic injuries even if you can find one . Maybe at VA Tech or Ohio State? I know it may sound nice but that is so impractical it borders on being ridiculous . The only practical and reasonable thing to do is put the deer down in a quick and humane way. If it can be done safely and with NRP officer approval the best way is a pistol shot to the back of the head where the head joins the neck. That takes out the brain stem and is a quick painless death.
And the reason for that is not too many deer but because it is the humane way to end a suffering life.
haha you may feel it but show me where you are advocating it. for now i will have to assume like you did to me above lol.
I'm not sure what you are talking about or saying? Seriously
i was talking to corey smokey.
Shaky, I'm planning a trip to Illinois and Iowa next year to hunt but I will have to travel through KY, OH, and Indiana to get there. Since they are all one buck limit states do you think I should cancel my trip because of fear of hitting a deer? Maybe I could drive south thru VA and TN then loop back up. That might add an extra day or two of driving to the trip but it might be safer. What do you think?
will you give me the statistics on which state has the highest rate of deer vehicle collisions then i will give you the reason why and what you folks are proposing to do about the problem?
shakyheadsabol's Link
1 in 34 chance for wv. looks to me like that might be number one. think we ought to start talking herd control before seeing bigger bucks, because in the end that's all what this comes down to is bigger bucks, otherwise there wouldn't be an argument.
You are making assumptions on your own and telling people what they think.
Yes, I agree that we have a lot of deer in some areas of the state. That is a no brainier. But, and you can ask any biologist of your choosing, deer population control starts AND ends with doe population control. I am not making that up , it is a well known fact and is a basic tenet of deer management.
You can think whatever you want, it's a free world here . But just because you think it doesn't mean it's right.
find me a post where you and corey, in conjunction with your buck harvest plan,idea, or whatever you call it includes what is going to be done with the does and i will shut up..i don't remember you mentioning that part so i am asking you to show me how this is not just about growing big bucks. ive lived here since 1982 and there has never been a problem (granted in your time i hear there wasn't a herd at all lol, so again the dnr did something right) with the deer herd except the population has exploded and the habitat is running out. and when they did foresee maybe a problem coming, they took action, like a few years ago when they reduced the doe harvest in this county from three to one.
so again, with your theory (doe controls the herd which i already said i didn't disagree with), and you and coreys plan, first show me where you thought about the does, or if you cant find that post, tell me now what is your plan if your goal is to reduce the buck harvest to (2) as corey suggested above. that would be a TOTAL plan concerning the future deer herd. what we have seen on here is just the getting to the better buck part.
I may be mistaken, but a doe generally has 1 or 2 fawns while a buck can breed many does. It looks like if you want less deer more bucks should be taken. A doe won't have any young ones if she isn't bred.
I may be mistaken, but a doe generally has 1 or 2 fawns while a buck can breed many does. It looks like if you want less deer more bucks should be taken. A doe won't have any young ones if she isn't bred.
I may be mistaken, but a doe generally has 1 or 2 fawns while a buck can breed many does. It looks like if you want less deer more bucks should be taken. A doe won't have any young ones if she isn't bred.
they are going to tell you you cant kill all the bucks therefore does will continue to be bred :)
Only enter once. Don't know what happened. j If you can delete 2 of the posts.
Mountain William you are right a doe usually has 1-2 fawns, but no disrespect intended , but your logic about bucks is a complete 180 to any biological theory there is about deer management anywhere with anybody.
Shaky, first this isn't my and Corys anything. I can't speak for Cory but my thoughts go hand in hand with QDMA. I assumed , and maybe wrongly so, that strict doe harvest goes hand in hand with any buck management. No disrespect, but anybody that knows anything about deer management already knows that.
I practice what I preach, in the past 2 years we have not taken an antlered deer off of my farm while taken or have taken close to 30 does. I've already killed 2 does with my bow this year and 0 bucks.
good deal. maybe i shall refer back to corey. there was no mention of a QDMA plan..the posts earlier this year were about a specific plan to reduce the buck harvest allowance and potientally enforce an APR with hopes of getting bigger bucks for the state.
ill ask you, if we reduce the buck harvest to 2, where must the doe harvest be to decrease the current buck population to a more mangeable number for the habitat? because in theory, if we reduce the buck harvest by 1 and leave the doe harvest as is, the population of bucks will still increase?
I think the limit is already in place to do it. It's just a matter of getting people to shoot the does instead of small bucks.
I thought this was how to decrease deer herd. Seems it is how to increase number of antlers or bigger antlers.
It's both. Why is that a problem?
It's better for the deer herd, it's better for the habitat. Yes, larger bucks would be a by-product. To me it seems to be a win-win, but maybe I'm not seeing something that you are.
Hunters that want to kill a small buck can still kill a small buck, hunters that want a chance at a larger buck can have that chance,
Is there something that I'm not seeing?
Killing a doe reduces the buck population the same way it reduces the doe population. It's not just the one doe that you kill, it is also the fawns of that deer, half of which are bucks. The bucks that are alive now won't live forever. If you reduce the total population by killing does, the buck population goes with it.
I don't hunt horns. I hunt deer. Very seldom do I shoot a buck. buck season is the worst time to take one, they are strong, stink, and have lost weight. I hunt for the meat.
And that's your right and you are free to do that, but there is a large and growing segment of the population that want to hunt for deer with larger ANTLERS and they have that right also.
I wish we had a 1 buck limit. And that we could kill more does..
I'd rather have 2 bucks to 1 doe running around..
The rut would be better. There would be bigger bucks.
You can't eat those little antlers anyways.
Kill does or 1 nice buck.
I enjoy hunting for meat also. I've put 2 young does in the freezer with my bow so far, but I enjoy hunting for antlers also. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both.
Some of these "0ne buck limit hunters" should either just kill one buck for themselves and leave Everybody else alone, or move to some other state
Well, Maybe they don't want to move to another state. Maybe they pay taxes just like any other resident. Maybe they have their opinion also. Maybe they haven't killed a buck in 2 years waiting for one that they would like to kill. Why shouldn't they get a chance to do what they would like to do in their own home state?
You see I've said all along that most hunters in this state just want to kill 3 bucks. Any buck.
You should have been a politician JR, LOL , do you check the poll #'s before you post? LOL
I'll kill 3 bucks if that's the limit, 2 bucks if that's the limit, or 1 buck if that's the limit. Regardless of what they decide I just wanna know it's for the health of the herd and not for the horns
The biology backs up the fact that it is. The antlers are a by-product. That's why it's a win-win.
It's the attorney in me. Lol. What I mean is there are Lot of hunters that don't voice their opinion on here. I'm afraid if we had a statewide vote we would be outnumbered . Kind of like now when all the republicans are making all the noise and then when the election gets here all the minority's and Muslims and young people and Mexicans and people wanting something for nothing will show up to vote. Silent majority I think they call it.
I went hunting to day at my cabin in Monroe County. I actually hunted in VA with a rifle but, stayed at the cabin. We left early as there hasn't been a deer come through that part of Peters Mountain National Forest for at least 10 years by what I saw today. So, we hiked out and came home. Started the truck to leave at 2:41 PM.
We saw 156 deer from Gap Mills to route 219. 156 men. Twenty years ago it could have easily been 356 deer in that same ride. Anyways, the bucks hocks were still white. No rut from what we could tell. Bucks and does were intermingling, feeding around each other in most every spot we saw a number of deer. No rutting activity what so ever. ZERO. Just thought I'd tell you about the rutting part of it.
This is a hard problem to fix and why the state needs more biologists and, more specific regulations that fit smaller districts. With so much food in that county, deer just persevere. Doe tags have been liberal for years. Harvest has been heavy for years. No natter, deer numbers remain bulging because hunter access is very restricted.
Anyways, this is one of the counties that SHOULD have a one buck limit. No questions asked. ONE buck, to every 5 or 6 doe's needs to be shot. And, it needs to be done yearly until we get it under control. If we ever got it under control.
I know I have spoken against the statewide one buck limit and will continue to do so. But, I have done so for the reason no one regulation covers the diversity of this state and, it's deer herd. Just like the current 3 buck limit. Whatever the limit is, the only real thing that will control the deer numbers is doe harvest. That won't ever happen though as access is way to limited from the average hunter.
I could type ten pages about how little respect I have for farmers that whine about deer but, won't allow good hunters access. But, I won't. Instead, I'll just say that reducing the buck quota for that county will have very little impact on the problem of too many deer. But, if done with a steady, increased doe harvest, it could be the eastern version of IOWA if gotten right. Those deer today were extremely healthy. God Bless
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I thought when baby deer are born it is give or take a little but isn't it 50/50 they are born buck or doe? So it makes sense if you kill way more does than bucks the balance will be wrong in the herd. .??
You would think that but, there is some research that shows when the population is low somehow the ratio of does is higher than bucks. It's early research, but they think it's due to some internal changes to help build the population. Same kind of logic with coyotes.
Also, bucks have a higher natural mortality rate. They get killed more often than does because of their increased travel(highways) and fighting. Also bucks have a higher mortality rate post rut due to malnutrition depending on winter. A buck will lose up to 30% of their body weight during the rut.
Kinda like teenage boys have a higher mortality rate than teenage girls. Boys engage in riskier behavior. LOL
It sort of cancels it self out in the end. Natures way of taking care of itself.
Doomsday? Really? This goes on in nature every single day. I dot mean to sound cold-hearted but I was expecting to read something that affected PEOPLE. I would never purposefully cause a deer to suffe needlessly but give me a break! Doomsday?
LOL, that's the type of mentality That I have to deal with everyday
WV people can be a strange breed( I know, cause I am one, LOL), terrorists can be blowing up the world around us but if the DNR would ultimately decide to drop the buck limit from 3-2 then suddenly it's a Doomsday scenario.
I have to say gobbler, I love bow hunting more than any activity I do outside my family. I've been sitting in a stand since 5:45 this morning and I'm yet to see a deer. Been doing this for close to 30-years and for the life of me I can't get down out of this stand! What the heck is wrong with me? My wife is convinced I have totally lost my mind. I just can't make her understand that the countless hours of waiting do for me what lying on the beach does for her. Lord knows I've watched hundreds if not thousands of deer out of my trusty old Summit. To this day, I get a rush even when a doe comes passing by. The rush I feel when a P & Y buck gets within bow range is beyond explanation. I know I've let a lot more get away than I've managed to harvest but if for some reason I'm never able to climb into another stand, I thank God for the experiences I've had.
One thing I'm sure of is that I don't know the best way to make everybody happy wen it comes to deer management. I do know what makes me happy, which is why I need to go. It's getting time for the deer to start moving and I don't want to miss my chance.
Good luck buddy, I hope that PY strolls by. I feel the same and unless someone has experienced it it's hard to describe it to them and even harder for them to understand.
BTW, 2-3 yrs ago Alabama went from a BUCK a DAY limit for the whole 3-4 month season to a 2 buck TOTAL yearly limit.
We went down there last year after they did it and the landscape still looked the same and people were still walking around normally . It was like nothing really happened. I couldn't believe it. LOL
They can go from a 100+ buck limit to a 2 buck limit and everything is still ok, but we have people thinking that if we go from 3-2 it's going to be a doomsday scenario.
Be careful, they walk among us!!
Wvlineman, you misunderstood the context with which I used the word...but, since you say getting hit by a car and shot in the head is a part of life, I guess the same could be said for charlie who goes to the movies and gets gunned down by a mad man? I mean that's life right? Or is it doomsday for charlie and a part of life for the newborn? The title of thread was written to describe my emotions from one day killing a trophy to the next having to deal with this unfortunate soul, nothing more nothing less, and I also stated that this would happen less with a lessened deer population...
Why don't we kill all the deer so no one has to suffer at the sight of an injured deer?
shakyheadsabol, I personally think there is a huge difference between the unfortunate deer in your pic to a real, live human being (charlie as you call him). We live in a society where animals lives are held in the same regard as human life. I don't think they compare. I feel sadness when I see a pic such as the one you posted. I see doomsday when I see the senseless murders that took place in Paris. Just my opinion.