Contributors to this thread:
What would you do?
Long story short: my son and I shot deer near an adjacent property line. The land owner of the adjacent property said we shot those deer on his property. From where the deer were shot, they were clearly on our side, with one dropping in its tracks and one going on his side. He came out of his stand and asked what our problem was. I said one of our deer ran on to his property and he said we shot both them on his side. He said he saw us tagging the one that dropped with his rifle scope and it was on his side. Not the case. It is clearly marked where the property line is. My concern is that he saw us using his rifle scope. That to me means he had his gun pointed at me and my 12 year old. I didn't say anything about it to him or his hunting party, but what would you do in this situation? I avoided a confrontation as I was clearly armed and so was he. Any thoughts?
As soon as you said he watched you through his scope the hair on my neck stood up! What I would have done would be much different with my kid with me compared to what I would have done if my kid wasn't with me. I probably would have done what you did in your situation with my kid there but without I'm afraid I would have pointed my gun at him and say "it isn't so comfortable when someone is pointing a loaded gun at you is it? Now next time you want to see what I'm doing use your Fning binocular!" That's probably not the right thing to do but this is one of my real pet peeves and shows the person is not responsible.
Now get ready for the people who say you shouldn't have been hunting that close to the property line but I know that's not always possible to do. I try to talk to the neighbors before the season and arrange an agreement to track and recover wounded deer but that's not always possible either. I would take the deer that fell on my side and if they wouldn't let you go get the other one I would at least ask them to tag it and utilize it so it doesn't go to waste. Then explain to your son that sometimes things happen beyond your control.
And then make sure everyone in the area knows what a jerk the other guy is.
I 'm the wrong guy to ask, I will not hunt close to a property line unless the other owner & I have a complete understanding with rules.
He allowed us to recover the other deer, but only after they had gotten out of their stands. We exchanged numbers and we made sure that recovery of animals is mutual. I told him I would gladly mark the trees that are on our side to avoid confusion. One guy was sitting near the deer we shot and he allowed a coyote to tear it up. We were able to save most of it, but we lost half of each hind quarter. I would have scared or shot the coyote if the situation were reversed. The land owner was lucky that I had my son with me and I had left my side arm at home.
exactly why we don't gun hunt ! OUR deer, MY deer... bull$hit ! Too many wack jobs carrying firearms anymore. It is what it is, but we stay out of the woods come gun season hoping OUR deer can take refuge on our property ! sarcasm on OUR deer....good thing your son was with you in this situation, could have got ugly.
Ther is a lot going on in this story. It sounds like you stayed calm the entire time and once you established with the neighbor that both deer were shot on your land the neighbor calmed down as well. I certainly would have said something about him having his gun pointed at you and your son. That type of behavior is unacceptable. I commend you for showing restraint in front of your son, I would not have done the same.
Hunting "close" to a property line is relative to the weapon and layout of certain properties. When rifle hunting 75 yds could be considered close to the line. I for one like to be able to use all of the property and have no qualms about sitting with my back directly against a neighbors fence. I would have no issue if they came and did the same thing on their side. If a neighbor shoots a deer and it comes on my property I would immediately stop my hunt to help them. As long as it was clear that the deer were shot on their land I would be exited for them. And exited to help them in the recovery. Especially a father and son.
It sounds like you came to a reasonable resolution with the exchange of numbers and agreements on boundaries. As far as the guy letting the coyotes chew on the deer... What an ass.
Congratulations on your hunting success!
One thing I know is situational awareness. I knew where at least they were sitting. An instinct that comes from being a former soldier and bow hunter. And I hunt with an ar15. I think if it did get ugly, I would have had the advantage, but I was going to do all I could to keep it from going that way. I would not want my son to witness that. And as Zinger has mentioned in his post, if my son wasn't with me, it would have probably turned out differently.
Sorry for maybe overreacting a bit deerslayer, kudos to you for keeping cool. Hope your having a gd time with your son.
My original post didn't go thru but gd luck and gd to make peace with neighbors, even with the scope incident !
Zinger says, I'm afraid I would have pointed my gun at him and say "it isn't so comfortable when someone is pointing a loaded gun at you is it?
This advice is pure genius. A confrontation over a deer, and the advice is to point a loaded gun at someone. All in the name of a fricken deer.
Some of the things that get said on here makes me wonder. This removes all doubt for me. Theres some real whack jobs on here.
Both sides own the land up to the line...no DMZ...both have the right to hunt on their side. But, I agree with a little détente and a pre-season agreement should this situation arise.
I'm wired a little differently in that, irregardless of whether my son was with or not, I'd have voiced my displeasure of having a rifle pointed at me/us. This point would not be made in a confrontational manner, but strongly enough to make my stance on this crystal clear to both the offending party, and as a learning experience for my son.
As mentioned earlier, this bevavior is becoming too common place and is exactly why I also have quit the firearm season.
Said it before, and I'll say it again; NOTHING brings out the @$$#0/$ in an otherwise normal Wisconsinite like deer hunting. Unbelievable what some folks become in those 9 days. I'm always glad when they're over...and I've been at it since the 60's.
But just me and my recurve from now on.
Hunt safe and have fun y'all.
Any a$$h@le who points a loaded gun at another person should bever again be allowed to hunt/own a gun. Risk living in a graybar motel for life over a damb deer. People are complete douche bags when arguing over deer. I do commend you for showing restraint over the matter in front of your son but I to would have let that knob know what I thought about being in his crosshaires. Guess that's reason #100 why I love bowhunting!
Not hunting near a property line sounds good until you're hunting a small piece of property or a narrow strip of property. I bowhunt one woods that is only about 125yds wide, on one side of the woods is land owned by the guy I'm hunting on and the other side is a field owned by someone else so I'm never more than 125yds from a property line and we all know a perfectly shot deer can run 125yds at times. So do I not hunt it???
retro, I can't disagree with you but having loaded guns pointed at me several times while hunting by idiots using their scope as a binocular has left me no room for tolerance to them. It's not in the name of a deer, it has nothing to do with a deer at that point but it's all about having someone seriously risk my life. WOuld I have pointed a loaded gun at them? Hopefully I would have the restraint to not to but I'm not going to say I wouldn't. One time I was hunting and looking through my binocular and saw a guy about 200yds away that I couldn't figure out what he was doing. Then I noticed that he was looking at me through his scope. I opened the bolt on my rifle and then very noticably raised the gun and pointed it right at him (again with an open bolt) I think he had a "coming to God" moment and left the area pretty quickly.
It sounds like the guy who pointed the rifle at you was talking to you with his hunting buddies there also. Even with my kid there I would have said "you do realize that you pointed a loaded rifle at me don't you? Would you like it if one was pointed at you?" This way his buddies will be thinking about what he did also.
It is only 10 acres I hunt and end to end is probably 200 yards max with the stand right in the middle. I know one of the guys in his hunting party and with have a discussion with him on Tuesday about what happened. I didn't want to bring it up when it was 4 adult men against me and my son
Thank you all for comments and opinions. Zinger, the initial confrontation was one on one. My son was dragging the deer back to our stand when the landowner and I exchanged "words". I saw them getting out of their stands near dark and drove over to where the enter and it was 4 against 2. They had there guns still and I had none. We exchange numbers then and I apologized for any miss understanding on property lines, even though I was in the right. Then the youngest hunter, brought out his cell phone to show me the big bucks they shoot off of their land. I can tell you they pretty much control which deer live as most of the deer come from where they sit. The only chance we have at something decent would be early morning that comes from across the road from other hunters getting to their stand. Otherwise it's a crapshoot. We kind of have to take what we can get. They practice qdm but only shoot big bucks. I might be wrong on this, but shouldn't the buck to doe ratio be 1 buck per 2 or 3 does? There are way too many does, as we saw a total of 23 deer and only one was buck, small as it was.
deerslayer, you have more patience than I, glad it turned out good for you. so Ruger you are saying that if there is a chance that you shoot a deer and it might go on your neighbors property you should not shoot? doesn't matter if the deer is one inch away from your neighbors land or 40 acres away, there is always a chance it could make it there. give me a break! if its it on your land blast it! so you own and pay taxes on property but you only allow yourself to "use" a portion of it? do you just make this crap up as you go along or do you plan the BS?
Now what to do if one does make it across the line. technically your neighbor doesn't have to allow you to get it, BUT payback is a bitch my neighbor would wish he never stopped me if he tried that one. I have had ass holes trespass to retrieve deer and not ask. it didn't turn out well for them. with cell phones now days there is no excuse for not asking first or at the very least leaving a message so they know whats going on depending on your relationship with your neighbor.
sooner or later the show will be on the other foot so its best to allow the retrieve either way.
There has to be some law that makes intentionally pointing a gun at someone for no good reason illegal. But even if convicted the punishment never fits the crime.
Im with Rick A. on this. There is definitely something that happens to people mentally during gun season. Neighbors that get along the rest of the year turn into adversaries. Fights over deer, property boundaries, you name it. And right here we are having a discussion about people pointing loaded guns at each other, and at what point its proper to point a loaded gun back at them. You guys are scary. Heres hoping you all get enough deer that you find no need to put your neighbor in your crosshairs for anything.
The violation here is "Aiming and pointing a firearm" - it is against the law to intentionally aim or point a firearm...loaded or not...at another individual. Period.
Scary stuff....
I wish I had recorded what he said with my cell phone. Next time I will be sure to have it recording if such an ordeal happens again. I guess I could report it, but with no solid proof, I don't think it will make a difference
Hunting properties that have a slim chance of recovering a shot animal is just setting yourself up for grief. I have a 20 here at home. The summer I bought it I talked with the neighbors once settled in about retrieval if needed.
Everything wash hashed out well before the season. The 10 years I have lived here now there have been no issues. My stand is not setup on the best spot. But it's the best spot to minimize the chances I need to make a call to a neighbor. So I agree there are some properties that shouldn't be bow hunted without prior approval to recover the animal. Waiting till it happens shows no consideration for the neighboring landowners and I would be pissed also.
Does not excuse the scoping incident though and I would have voiced my displeasure son there or not.
Drop tine, you own your own 20 acres but don't utilize the full 20 just in case. You might as well give part of the property to the neighbor. To each is own and you do what you want but if you already have an agreement with the neighbor why wouldn't you hunt the best spot available for the wind? Deer travel tree lines and fence lines and lines in general. I see nothing wrong with sitting right on the line as long as the deer you are shooting are on your property. I'm not trying to offend you, I just don't see the logic in a "buffer" zone.
A few years ago I noticed that a big buck was coming into a soybean field. It's an 80 acre field with two trees on my side of the property line. The adjoining property is 80 acres of woods. I did not have permission to go in the woods. I was up there doing some work for my in laws the week before the opener and would scout evenings. I decided to hang a set in one of the two trees on my side of the fence planning on hunting it opening evening. As I'm finishing up the adjacent landowner walks up to me, on my side of the fence. He was all bristled up like he was ready for a fight, talking about me trespassing and shooting his deer. I'm right handed and the set was clearly in position for me to shoot into the field not the woods. After explaining that I do have permission to be there and that they were not his deer as well as the fact that he confronted me on my side of the fence, he was technically trespassing. he was still very angry. I told him that if he had approached me in a more civil manner I would have simply went somewhere else but that since he was being an asshole that on principle alone I was going to hunt that spot. He left me with "if you shoot one you better drop it in its tracks because you're not coming on my land to retrieve it and if I catch you on my land I'll shoot you." Now I was determined to get that nice buck I had been seeing. Opening day comes and I'm in that tree. He's about 100 yds east of me. Sure enough he shoots a giant ten point and the buck jumps the fence to my side and drops ten yards from my tree. He heads towards me and tripped over a log, down he went. Broken ankle and wrist. That's karma for the jerk! His fall happened 40 yds from me. I got down and after trying to get him up, called the rescue squad. Carried his stuff to his truck, tagged his buck, (now on my land) with his tag. I gutted it and drug it to his truck for him and waited an hour and half for someone to come get the truck and the deer. In all the commotion he asked why I would even be helping him. I told him that even though I thought he was an asshole it was the right thing to do. Just like if I shot one of his deer on my side of the fence the right thing to do would have been for him to let me recover it. He had no idea that I had already spoken to the sheriff and explained the situation. The sheriff agreed to escort me onto the land if I needed to recover a deer. This guy learned his lesson the hard way and him and I have since become aqaintances. I now have the permission if needed to cross the line. If he had approached me civilly to begin with, I never would have been in that spot that night. I just don't get the guys who think they own the deer or guys who get pissed if the neighbor sits right on the property line. As long as your shots are on your property you are doing nothing wrong. You pay for the whole property and should be able to use it.
Crusader, that's karma! FYI the Sheriff, and wardens, are not able to allow you to trespass or to go by themself and drag the deer bak to you.
I have the buffer so I don't interfere with my neighbors hunts trampsing around on their land tracking a deer. I have never had a deer make it into a neighbors land. Nor have they had the need to come on mine.
We have the agrement in place if needed, not abusing it! It's just part of being a good neighbor. I hunt for enjoyment and try and avoid conflict not invite it.
The fact that there is nothing you can do to retrieve a deer on your neighbors land without permission is the reason we hunt at least 75 yds from the fence.
Zinger - You are absolutely correct! Sheriff's, Sheriff's deputies and WDNR warden cannot and will not "escort" anyone onto the property of another to retrieve an animal, They, just like anyone else has no legal authority to do that!
However - be aware that wardens can and will enter your property during the course of their lawful duties and trespass does not apply.
Sheriff's deputies can and will enter your property under the "open fields" doctrine which allows law enforcement - without a warrant to enter. Your home and the surrounding area known as "curtilage" are of course a different story requiring a warrant or permission to enter or if something is in "plain view" or exigent circumstances apply.
Don't expect law enforcement to assist with recovering your deer - you'll be disappointed.
Zinger, I happened upon the sheriff working in his yard. He lives about a mile from that spot. When I relayed the story of what the guy said it think it pissed him off as much as me. He is a good old country type guy and without saying as much I got the feeling he had felt with this guy before. I only sat that spot the one time, figuring the guy learned his lesson and I have plenty of other spots that I don't have to worry about that. But if that was my only option I would hunt there. Keep in mind that I hunt private land myself and if I were on public land I too would certainly give myself a buffer zone well away from private land.
When hunting adjoining properties (something that happens often in our fragmented farm country), I often sit with my back against neighboring fence so I'm shooting (and in the case of this weekend, my son shot) into the land we have permission to hunt. That puts us between the deer and the other property, and if wounded, it'll likely run into "our cover" vs. right back at where the shot just came from. What I hate to see though is guys who hunt adjoining properties FACING the property they don't have permission to hunt. That happens more often with bow stands (camo) than blaze orange in my area, but I've seen it both ways.
I'm on the fence about this subject, no pun intended. I have no problem with someone hunting my property line on their side and shooting onto their side. But I have encountered far too many "hunters" that were set up to shoot into our property. About being "scoped", well that just plain pisses me off. About 5 years ago I came out of the woods a bit early one night during gun season. As I topped rise there was a line sitter at 40 yards with his gun up scope on me. I think he thought my footsteps were that of a deer as the leaves were very crunchy that day. I yelled some not so nice things at him and have never seen someone cover a 40 acre picked cornfield so fast;) To my knowledge the neighbor has not given anyone permission again other than my son and I since I told her about that incident. I had absolutely no problem with people hunting on her land. But when they put me or my family/friends safety in jeopardy I get upset.
