It should have stayed banned state wide when it was...
With the current sportsman groups influences in Madison, deer baiting is safe and secure in Wisconsin.
Bait plots is just baiting on a larger scale. Just saying!
Three baits around the spot I was gun hunting have not seen a deer in daylight yet but their cams have them at night and corn is all gone come morning.
This is big woods deer and they are high tuned for disturbance.
Daves farms from MI, must have its own lobbyist in Madison, my gosh that company sells so much corn and apples, its crazy,,,,,,,,
Your right Smokey, 1 week before gun season all the Deer patterns change & its not the rut.
oh my their heads just exploded :)
Baiting bears, does not affect the deer, because of the bait used, they way it is applied, and the season that does exist. I will take for granted, that you know a little about bear baiting.....
Now comes late fall. The amount of people come north, and and they lay out bait. Every gas station and grocery store has it. no one puts out 2 gallons.....
So they dump lots and lots of corn, and lots and lots of pumpkins, and cabbage, and what ever. You want an education, come with me, I will show you bait piles that are ridiculous......
This continues, and starts to ruin the hunting. the deer get on the baits and for the most part, shut down normal legal shooting hour movement....
sure of course some bucks are killed, but not many, and you will here lots of complaints, by the guy saying he has seen no deer......
I will be honest, if I have tracking snow, pretty good chance I am going to kill a buck, with my gun, and there some nice bucks, but you would have to actually hunt the area, to understand, what I am saying.....
I am now hunting Waupaca Co. yes already have seen 3 bucks, which I have passed. great hunting, but here I am contained to one farm, no room to roam, which is why I like the north,,,,,,,,,
this might sound bad, but I really hope they find CWD in Forest or Vilas or Marrinette Co, so this bait dump will end.......
there is not anyone walking in with 10 apples, it is simply out of control,,,,,
this will be my last comment on it, anyone who has hunted, knows the affect of the baiting in the north.....
please do not tell me to call the TIP line, my poor warden has so much area to cover, he does not have the time......
I wish you well
Hunting has become a game in many aspects instead of the sport it used to be. I didn't bait until I found out someone else did....the guy on the ridge above. I know he is able to be more consistent at putting out bait but I don't complain cause I know he brings in different bucks throughout the season just as I do. Just as I noted before I also know those bucks move around giving me just as much chance as he or anyone else who has joined in the practice in the area.
Whiners got Earn A Buck banned and now they are on to baiting...again. What will be next on their agenda?
My response was to Smokey and his statement that "The hunter sits there during the day or visits the site during the day leaving scent and making noise."
We cannot hunt near that pile since it is illegal. If it were a legal pile would it be ethical to sit near it? Many of these hunters are not from the area so they cannot run bait our for the weeks prior to gun season so that is one reason the pile it high.
We own 80 acres in Sawyer county. I know first hand at the limited cropland available, and understand why baiting is embraced. If your neighbor is baiting, or has a plot, or has the available food source, your deer sightings will likely be dwindled if you don't bait as well. But, I do know if no one baits, the deer will act more naturally, or start hanging out near many of the homes, cabins or cottages where the easy food source exists. We see it near our cottage every evening. The deer make their rounds from one feeder to the next.
I'm not for or against what's currently legal. I just know the new "north" is heading south, and that 80 sits pretty vacant, as I wouldn't waste my gas money to hunt the north woods when there is waaaaay better hunting across the street from my home.
If baiting makes deer nocturnal so bad then I would imagine counties that have baiting bans must be teaming with 5-9 year old bucks because they supposedly can't be shot during daylight hours.
Here is another puzzle and shows what the north can really produce......
I got on line with Superior Guides and Outfitters, and they are in Ashland Co. Can not get any farther north than that,,,,,,
And they shot a lot of nice bucks, they have to be doing something right.......
The Deer had to walk around & earn their food instead of walking to the bait pile.
"CAUSE I CAN,,, CAUSE ITS LEGAL... WHAT AFRAID SOMEONE IS TAKING YOUR DEER ...IT'S NOT EASY IN THESE ELEMENTS" LOL
I
Blood you got your ears on??
"CAUSE I CAN,,, CAUSE ITS LEGAL... WHAT AFRAID SOMEONE IS TAKING YOUR DEER ...IT'S NOT EASY IN THESE ELEMENTS" LOL
wally, this sentence makes no sense...you say that bait makes them nocturnal....if so then counties WITH baiting bans should have LESS older bucks based on your theory, not MORE as you stated.
just admit it, you made a mistake
Doesn't look good fans!
Anyhoo - another bait thread - OMG!
Done properly baiting has few if any ill effects on deer, their movements, their health and their overall presence on the landscape at any given time.
We went around and around on this last year and I proved many daytime shots of baited deer feeding and moving about during daytime hours. One buck was in fact a very large 8 that stopped near mid day at the bait site. Many posted that deer become nocturnal because of baiting and I replied..."bullshit".
I bait deer in the winter now, have in the earlier season but have no real need to do that!
I had many, many chances on harvesting a doe this bow season and settled on a rather impressive 9 point with an 18 inch spread that scores in the mid 130's!
Grunt/rattle - no bait!
How in the hell did I do that?
I love to hunt the bitter cold of December and even enjoy watching deer in the snow.
I love to hunt der over bait as I am successful at it and manage a doe or two every year.
2 gallons of corn baited every other or daily does not "alter" deer movement.
Some would love to have you think deer bed several 100 yards away and then walk over, eat the corn and lay back down.
Deer are a browse species that move about most in the dark and sometime in the day and eat a variety of foods. The deer know that they cannot and will not survive on corn alone. For that reason they vary their diet as much as Mother Nature or man allows.
I hunt a 400 acre parcel that holds a variety of food sources through the year. Some are man made and other provided by the land.
Ethical?
We have many here with the mind set that if you don't hunt "there way" or "the right way" it's not hunting and your a piece of crap!
Hunting is what it is to the individual - as it's done legally and with in the perimeters of the law - lets not sit in judgment!
I don't like deer drives or hunting bear with dogs, but I will defend those activities as others enjoy the crap out of them. Just not my cup of tea! Doesn't make it wrong - just means I don't care for it.
Baiters claim areas.
I work in a county with about 150,000 acres of public land - I've never had a complaint in over 20 years. Does it happen? You bet it does, but no wars have broken out! I'm sure some duck hunters have fought over blinds on State land and bow hunters over a placed tree stand to boot - muskrat trappers have shared a few words while placing traps for the furbearers as well - happens on public land.
It changes deer movement?
A 2 gallon corn pile is going to pull deer from all over the County! And I have a bridge for sale in new York for those interested.
Deer again are browsers. Some will move to eat your bait - others don't -
Do they move for your mock scrapes and your planted food (bait) plots? Of course they do.
My neighbor plants corn and sweet peas - I plant nothing...Were are the deer? At the food plot. That's why people plant them...they want deer on their property as much as possible. If they tell ya as hunters there just feeding the deer they are lying!
In November, I don't care how much bait you lay down. With a good rattling sequence and a grunt call your the most deadly predator in the woods to a mature buck - hands down! Ask my friends Les and Mike - they'll tell ya the same thing.
It spreads disease...
Here's a news flash -
Deer are very social animals. They nuzzle each other as well as lick, poke and fight amongst each other every day of the year!
Do you really think the interaction deer have at a food plot is any different? Perhaps the food is spread out further but they still physically interact!
Am I foolish enough to change peoples mind - hardly. They'll argue with me till the last dog is hung.
I am a baiter - I've done it - seen the results on both sides of the law and from a veteran hunter's view.
Yep, Pasq - I got my ears on!
Good hunting!
however, what changes the movement patterns more, I must concede, is the amount of people and trucks and noise, etc, invading the area, very quickly........
I just have to go farther in,
stay well
"One simple question to all the baiters. If it doesn't effect their patterns...why do you do it?
"2 gallons of corn baited every other or daily does not "alter" deer movement."
If the deer that come in to your bait would have walked by in that exact same place without your bait being there(which is what you just said..."does not alter deer...") why didnt you just save your money, and time to carry it out there if you would have had the same result?
IT does alter deer movement patterns, etc! Period! cannot be argued! Period! you changed how those deer moved to get them to your stand, now imagine the effects of tons and tons of corn influxed into the landscape for a couple weeks before gun season....you guys can't really be that stupid can you?
Now that closes it out perfectly...now I have to get back to making some sausage, and bleaching some skulls. Ron
That is completely wrong , and so far off that it makes me wonder about your other statements being false to protect baiting. What a joke.
Last year a Warden told me baiting was his # 1 problem. Baiting too early, too much bait, and baiters like to hunt past legal shooting time .
Real hunters scout to locate the bedding areas, the feeding areas and position themselves simewhere in between. Deer are patterned.
A few weeks before gun season the baiters start dumping corn and ALL THE PATTERNS CHANGE.
THATS FACT
Having hunted national forest land since 84, it is just an undeniable fact baiters alter deer movement, and cause all kinds of different problems.
Bait if you want, it`s legal, but to deny the facts makes you look like an idiot, a fool,or someone who needs to bs to justify their action.It would be better to just tell us, i`m baiting, pound sand if you dont like it, I do what I want. At least you would be honest.
Do you actually believe they fill up on corn, bed down 100 yards away and wait for a refill? Really?
Secondly - If I was to subscribe to your logic (or lack thereof) - does a food plot alter deer movement then? When I plant a 2 acre food (bait) plot am I not drawing all the deer off my neighbors property? Why are you not so much up in arms about that? Remember - just talking deer movement here?
Ruger - "Real Hunters" Again - I am so sorry I don't fit into your well perceived judgmental definition of a hunter! You my friend suffer from nothing less than the "hunt my way or your shit" syndrome!!
And by the way - I didn't see you post a picture of a kill this year - or any other year for that fact!
Longbowbud come on man..."Gray areas", "Straw man arguments" "Caveats" ya talk about a cornucopia of clichés - Really?
And I look like an "idiot" and a "fool"?
People who are anti baiters usually when your stumped resort to name calling! How nice!
I don't need to bullshit to justify my actions. I have the balls to admit to what I do (on occasion) and the common sense to explain my actions truthfully and have no desire to tell anyone to "pound sand" or "I do what I want" because that my friend...is NOT the truth!
The realdeal - "stupid" - Really - the deer are already there! They didn't get airlifted in, they are there and bait allows me as a hunter to take advantage of their presence there by providing me with a shot.
I'll give you this...they "alter" or move maybe 25 yards, maybe 50 or I'll give ya a 100, off established deer trails, but they are there.
You people make it sound like they come from miles around to feed on a 2 gallon bait pile. They visit and go about their day - feeding and roaming the woods. Simple stuff.
Just like the nocturnal theory!
Come on people...
Best to leave sleeping dogs lie boys, because there really isn't much difference between the beloved food (bait) plot and baiting. Both are designed to attract deer for the purposes of hunting them.
Only difference is that some folks don't like that others don't subscribe to their "style" of hunting.
And the others feel that someone is getting away with something that they cannot or will not do.... so those baiters have the upper hand in their minds...and they don't like that at all. Those dirty cheating bastards!
BT, Y know me, you have been on this site a long time. I seldom post dead animals. My ego is big enough as it is. In one 6 year period on Bowsite I whacked 8 bruisers & never mentioned a word.
If your ever in the Merrill area give me a call, we'll have a drink & look at the mancave.
BOOM! Drop the mic on the stage.
OK, now that this matter is done and settled, how about threads about how people are using all that venison?
The ones i had in my hands were Canadian Wolf kills .
90 % of Wolf kills are big buckd ....oppps. thats another thread.
I cannot help but think that those views by some are crafted by a single bad incident and then whipped up by others that "heard" or "someone" said!
Ruger - I adjusted my post but not quick enough apparently - don't mean to slam on you but ya did the same thing last time we went through this Glen!
People should be allowed to hunt the way they want - without being belittled or called names.
Years ago I was scared to death to admit that I baited on here. The bashing was out of control - no more idling standing by I said.
I believe it's a fair and enjoyable practice that allows me and others to pursue game, enjoy the hunt and bag a deer if we choose to. I do not and have not seen the negative impacts others claim.
Hunt hard Hunt safe!
And there we go again - another one claiming someone cannot hunt! Very nice live2hunt - very nice!
Good luck to you - but please do not insinuate that I cannot or don't know how to hunt!
Best afield!
I don't know if there trying to "claim" deer so much as get a kill shot at one or two.
I have planted food plots in the past - I know why I planted them and so do you!
The problem I have is that the average "Joe" who cannot afford his/her place cannot enjoy this activity as the people with the land/money can enjoy a baiting activity - or a "deer attracting activity"...and no one grips!
I dump 2 gallons of corn and I'm a dirty rotten son-of-a-bitch.
That's why I said this thread was entertaining. You can't make this crap up.
I hesitate to respond, because of the satisfaction you receive by someone actually noticing you, (even if it's in a negative light), and you are never going to change, but I actually think your narcissistic personality has enhanced lately.....if that was possible? LOL
It's a means of habituating wild animals to an easy, stress free, dependable meal.....right up to the day you climb into a tree stand and drop him in the feeding pattern you created.
Ethical indeed!!
Ethical indeed!!
And hunting a Bait Plot is? A corn field? Soybeans? Read the late season thread. How many guys like hunting a food source? Pretty much all of them.
the fact of the matter is up north there is not 2 gals every other day its 50 to 100 lbs the saturday before the opener. its piled in areas that it is the best food source for many miles so the deer are drawn to it. much easier to eat from a 100lb pile of corn then scratch for acorns. deer take advantage of this newly piled food. they alter there patterns no doubt. way more than the 25, 50, or 100 yards bloodtrail claims. are you really as stupid as therealdeal made you look? me thinks so.
This is what hunting in the north has become. End baiting and instantly we have guys moving again. When guys move, deer die in the big woods.
these are the same guys, that believe the dnr wants a lot of deer north of 70.....
the same guys who do not live with predators out of control
Dan small,,,, give me a break, unless someone has taken him to an area, you could take his knowledge of deer hunting and maybe fit it, into a sandwhich bag
I don't cry and whine about food plots - I planted food plots and have hunted them. We plant food plots to attract and hold deer on the 400 acre property I hunt! We don't do it to view wildlife, we don't spend money and sweat to attract song birds, we do it to attract deer and turkeys onto the property and hope they stay there so we can hunt them. Period - so don't say I use it was a smokescreen or to stay off topic - I have done both, baited and food plotted.
I also bait - I speak from experience...but that doesn't seem to matter to those opposed - they have there mind set and they will call names, allege "smokescreens" and banter all they can about not being a "real" hunter. Once again the "If ya don't hunt like me your shit" mindset! Really?
I say to you, look at the hunting (bow) kill thread.
Those of you claiming that I am not a hunter - check the out buck and tell me that again. No bait - a rattle and grunt call sequence that assisted that buck with a short yardage dirt nap!
Say what you want! I'm not going to change your mind and personally I could care less if I did or not.
Like so many of you anti's don't have. The experience as a baiter, food plotter and a hunter for some 45 years!
Drop tine - your post tells me you have never hunted whitetails over bait! Stress free - my butt! Try and draw on a baited whitetail and come back on the post and give us a report - 99% there shittin' razor blades...they know the site might harbor danger.
I enjoy baiting, do it legally and have been successful in my endeavors.
Razor - Don't sell Mr. Small short - I have hunted with him on several occasions and he is a knowledgeable hunter! I have guided him on a turkey hunt for television and he has accompanied me on several falconry hunts! don't agree with him, but he has always been a gentleman and a good hunter!
10bucks - Really? You don't consider that baiting - just keeping them in your "area" (another word for your property). Come on now!
Upnorth "Me thinks so" - and you went to school where?
Yep, feeling really "dirty" about being truthful about what I do and what I enjoy!
You've added nothing to the thread my friend. In fact all those guys dumping 50 to 100 gallons - you reported them right? Yeah, I figured as much!
Tracker - A "crutch" for hunting knowledge?
I wonder about your trail cameras you put out - is that a "crutch" for your hunting knowledge? Do they allow you to pattern deer? Do you and the rest of your cronies always hunt the camera location with the largest bucks on camera? You bet you do!
Now why would you use "THAT" crutch - come on! The kettle calling the pot black.
I for one and the friends that I know that bait have plenty of hunting experience trust me!
Even with abundant baited sites around one property we're hunting (none of them mine, and none on the property we're hunting that I'm aware of), we see deer daily in the ag fields, as many as two dozen at times this fall, and as recently as Monday 15 and Friday 13, all baldies. Text from a friend hunting an 80 away, "12 tonight, all baldies." Leave the spot and see five more baldies not even a 40 down the road (and could see 10-15 on another parcel a quarter-mile away most any night). Now, even with all the baited spots all around deer are still out in the ag lands (hay, cut corn, clover and winter wheat, mainly).
DNR in its own literature on baiting and feeding states how food plots are not considered baiting. Different animal. Will never be banned. You can't tell a property owner what to plant or not cut (as long as it's not an exotic invasive banned by local ordinance).
"How ironic one of the posters here is chastising non baiters, when he's actually been caught violating with bait. One would think a person, being an example of the non baiting proponent's case, would be more silent or not quick to defend baiting. BT, nice post and thanks for sharing your experiences to get another perspective."
I was thinking the hypocrisy of Ronny-runngun-RC is over the top even for him. A known baiting violator who only knows one way to hunt. No wonder he's doing some serious butt kissing of BT.
Those that say a 2' circle of corn has more effect on deer than bait plot. Rolling eyes. There are all kinds of throw and grow stuff that can be planted in wooded openings.
What BT does is selfish short term personal gratification. Understandable.
Selfish? I buy a tag just like anyone else and I and others are allowed by law to participate in these activities.
Because I take advantage of this makes me nether selfish or greedy - I enjoy it like thousand's of others across the State and take no more than what me and my family can consume! So if I fill a tag, legally I am now selfish - Really? Interesting!
I like the terminology "Conservation plots" - very politically correct there!
They offer a shooting platform from September in January for anyone with an empty tag to fill! Period - you know it and I know it!
They can be beneficial however, I grew them and know how they assist wildlife - deer, turkeys and other native song birds - some are beneficial while others are dead by late November like BIG10's food plots! Frozen!
So I'm selfish, a very bad hunter who knows no other way to hunt among several other names....very nice fellas!
Short term? Hardly, I can remember many hunts years ago when I baited and each brings back good memories! Nothing short term about it.
I am sorry Drop Tine - you are correct Sir!
I ask you to consider how sporting it is to shoot a "pushed" deer on a drive? How much scouting and preparation does that take? Anyone?
Just saying. A thought I guess!
Keep on shutting them down like you have been when you so neatly closed this thread and let them flop on the bottom of the boat like a bluegill grasping for air.
My point which has been lost is simply this..... The large amounts of baits, the sheer amount, that is dumped into the woods, two weeks prior to gun, does affect movement......
I am not saying to make it illegal, I am just saying how it affects movement........ I have learned how to hunt around the baits, and figure out the movement....
One example is, along the Brule River.... If you were to hunt the high ground, unless a deer being pushed, due to the large volume of bait, most movement is at dark,,,,,,,
Yet, by using my hip boots and canoe, (when possible), and hunting the beds, there is good movement earlier in the day, if you an slip in,,,,,,,
I am talking about a specific area in the state, and I think your mouth would drop, if you saw the amount of pumpkins and cabbage and corn in the woods.....
In my area, you would see better movement, for everyone, if there was no bait, but most do not believe that.......
maybe I am wrong, maybe the bait helps the deer survive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Like the crossbow, its here, like the wolves there here, so I will just have to learn to hunt better....
Jim in response to your very last post "baiting might be the difference between seeing deer or not"....well that perfectly sums up FIP's assessment of BT being lazy and selfish. People who can't succeed hunting an animal using his natural deer movement to figure it out resorts to baiting. This essentially comes down to laziness, greed, instant gratification, whatever you want to call it.
For those of you who live "hunting" off the golden pile you will never learn how to hunt, you'll never become consistent at seeing/harvesting mature bucks, you will never get all you could out of your hunts, and sadly you'll just pass on this method to the youth and they will never figure it out either. Sad.
I'm waiting for Tackdriver to jump in here, he's the master at baiting in Bayfield County, breaking laws and all. He'll tell you all how to do it right!!
I have shot many deer with my bow without the aid of bait. If you have read any posts I have made you will see my 2015 buck had nothing to do with bait other than I shot it in a cut cornfield after that deer responded to a rattling sequence and then once out in the field, a grunt call.
I was out muzzle loading today and as I drove to my stand at 5:30AM I thought of some of the people on this site.
Here I am, one of the few left in the County still pursuing deer now and I wondered how those "friends" of mine were doing? Sleeping in, getting ready for work or coming home to work to hit the hay!
It would be interesting to see how many of these "mighty hunters" with all the answers and name calling went out this morning to pursue whitetails? Hmmmmm? slim to none is my guess!
I bait deer in the winter. Temperatures in the single digits! 99.9 % of these same guys that cry about baiting have hung up the bow a month ago. Yet they have the balls to chastise me. Really?
keepinitreal says... "This essentially comes down to laziness, greed, instant gratification, whatever you want to call it."
You can hang whatever tag you want on baiting deer in Wisconsin there sunshine, but when it's all said and done, it's still legal in the State, deer largely suffer no ill effects from the practice and it's an effective hunting method!
Yep and because I'm trying to fill a doe tag at a bait station/site, I'm greedy? Whatever!
Instant gratification - apparently you've never baited deer keepinitreal - It's anything but!
While you brought it up "Keepinitreal" you mentioned passing it on to the youth?
I would like to know what you do to "pass it on", I mean your extensive hunting knowledge/experience in the field?
Hunter Safety? Conservation Educator? Just is what do you do, to pass it on my friend. I mean other than blow hot air and call names?
Because not only do I mentor hunt youth, I am a hunter safety instructor and a Bird of Prey educator dedicated to school age seminars, all free of charge.
What do you do to "give back" as you brought it up, passing it on to the youth I mean?
Just wondering my friend?
The fact is, many of us who hunt in the north have extensive experience with the negative effects of baiting.
The pro-bait crowd can try until they're blue in the face to convince us that negative effects don't exist but it's not going to work because we have lived it and we know the truth.
This discussion is about baiting and it's funny how the pro-bait crowd always trys to deflect with comparisons to grunt calls, rattling, mock scrapes, food plots, etc. etc.
The problem isn't caused by somebody leaving a pile of grunt calls in the woods, conditioning the deer to come to that spot, altering patterns and then the baiter claiming that spot for their own.
The fact is, baiting is the problem and that's why we're arguing about it. When leaving a pile of grunt calls or whatever in the woods becomes a problem then we can argue about that.
Funny how I was recently watching a news story about the Minnesota deer season and the Warden interviewed talked about "unethical" hunters who used bait. The only difference is that it's illegal in MN...
I have also talked with many guys who have baited and find more success in scouting and hanging a stand over trails. i agree with that. One day Wisconsin will be one of the states where baiting will be illegal. Imo it's a matter of time. But I won't knock on anyone for doing it until then. If you were to ask me if i would feel accomplished as a hunter for killing a deer over bait. I'd tell you no. I'd rather put the puzzle together to create my success. I live for a challenge and feel rewarded by it.
Why not just move your stand 25 yards to the trail and hunt it? Duh
"I love to hunt the bitter cold of December and even enjoy watching deer in the snow."
I assume you can do that on said trail mentioned above? Duh
Go ahead and dump your pile of fail and shoot a couple of doe you accomplished hunter;)
It's unethical in MN because It's Illegal there! ;-)
Actually Cheesehead Mike, you know I do bring to the table some valid points. My history and experience both life and employment related, I do know what I am talking about!
I still remember your incident with your son - a single incident that has either turned you against this issue or weighed heavily on your decision to promote anti baiting. That's fine, I understand and you don't have to believe a word I say. Not all situations are the same. I understand that!
You and Les shot nice bucks this year. I as well shot a nice buck this year - without bait - but yet according to some here I am lazy, don't know how to hunt blah, blah, blah....
I never said there was "No negative effects" Mike!
Of course there are, some people do over bait, they use ATV's where they shouldn't, to name a few. So yes, your wrong - I admit there are some negatives.
That being said, I will point out to you and the others, there are few issues in the Northwoods that don't have negative effect or impact.
Bears with dogs have negative effects - should we ban that?
Deer drives have negative effects - should we ban that too Mike? After all it's dangerous and the #1 killer of hunters historically in Wisconsin over the many years!
How about people trespassing while they are bow hunting - should we end bow hunting because some trespassed?
Where is the logic here. People will violate! They do it all the time, why is baiting any different and why arnt other violations taken into consideration?
What about those of us who abide by the law and do things the right way?
Because these are the people you never hear about! There are no problems so no one makes a stink!
Now wait..it's not a "smokescreen" just a question here folks!
Just a thought!
I know this is something you struggle with in your area and it's something I suggested you to work with the Sheriff's department about - maybe it got better - maybe you still choose not to deal with it - I'm sorry you have to deal with that crap! It's not right!
But I bait with no ill effects and no claiming areas and I enjoy it as the deer continue to browse, don't lay down 150 yards away and wait for a re-stock!
Regarding your Minnesota warden....It's unethical Mike, because it's illegal. Far be it that you'd refer to me as unethical - your better than that.
On a final note - I didn't bring up - deer patterns and changing them - the anti's did that! I am simply responding by saying that food (bait) plots do alter deer movement - A well established scent dispenser also alters a deer's normal pattern - not to split hairs - but it's man made, stays in the woods for weeks on end and people shoot deer over them. Deer move too and from it.
Just saying!
Wildlife Research makes a TON of money every year selling them!
Once again Mike - In well over 20 years I have never once handled a complaint of any baiter "claiming" an area. Nor, have I encountered a warden(s) that I've worked with over the years explain any type of problem centered around bait/staking a claim.
Not saying it doesn't happen, because you and I know it does.
I'm saying that the problem is often times exaggerated....
+1
I wonder if the bait haters that have such a problem with hunters baiting deer feel the same way about hunters baiting bear? I mean really, shoot a deer with a mouth full of corn or shoot a bear with a mouth full of donuts what's the difference? I don't bait deer with poured out piles I bait them with food plots. Pouring out a pile of bait means the hunter knows exactly where that deer will be standing, a little different than having acre(s) of food plots. I imagine I'd get no enjoyment out of baiting deer with piles because of that reason and I'd get no enjoyment out of baiting bear for the same reason, unless of course my sole intent was to kill.
I get what some are saying.
Bottom line is I'll kill deer with or without bait - have for years. I do enjoy my winters with the baiting and watching deer in the snow - a lot of fun!
Quite a few years ago - I believe it was the University of Stevens Point that did a study by adding "glitter" to deer feed.
This was done to see how deer ranged from the bait piles.
I remember seeing the piece on TV and I thought it was on PBS(?) I never did however see the end result of the study however.
50 miles of walking...that's a lot! I don't think I dove my truck that much this season! (LOL)
I sure hope he tells us about the buck he killed this year for the 8th time;)
Mike watch out he seemed to focus on you thoughout his entire last post and we know from past experience he gets a little deer shit crazy over You and Les
I could take you for a hike in Florence Co, and you would trip over all the bait dumps,,,,,,,
not for or against it, just an observation what heavy baiting will do to an area,,,,,,,,,
stay well
I don't care if people bait or not! Doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm more concerned about the lack of deer in the far north and the up coming fights the Cdac committee's may have with the wdnr over doe tags. Or the abuse of Fathers filling freezers with youth tags in no doe zones. And of course the abuse of the xguns.
I find it ironic some of the same people that are against baiting are the same ones when the xgun issues came up posted " let people hunt the way they want ". But now don't want people to hunt the way they want because it doesn't meet their standard.
I bait plot a (lot) I have first hand experience. Those that say bait plotting is not the same as baiting are again trying to justify their standard or means of hunting. Any time you do anything to create a food source for deer to come to,,, you are baiting .. Weather you put 2 gallons out, Bait Plot, cut cedar branches or leave part of your 40 acre corn field to hunt over. Its Baiting.
The big difference with placing bait and bait plotting is you can have tons of bait in a plot and its legal. But take one hugh pumpkin and replace it and your over baiting. Bait plotting can only be done on private land vs baiting can be done any where its legal. Private or public.
The main reason people bait plot is to pull, hold, congregate, and kill deer on private land.
Ban one Ban it all. We have more pressing issues threating our northern deer herd then this.
Yep, one of the many differences between a plot and a pile.
"The rants got longer and longer and each time they had less to do with baiting. "
Almost like tomes. Too long to read without yawning.
"I sure hope he tells us about the buck he killed this year for the 8th time;) "
LOL
This was copied from Page 73 of the 2015 Minnesota Deer hunting regulations. Don't shoot the messenger...
Baiting versus food plots Baiting significantly increases the risk of disease transmission by concentrating animals and promoting nose-to-nose contact. Baiting attracts and holds large numbers of deer on private parcels creating a privatization of the deer herd.
Food plots are dispersed over a much larger area than bait piles and allow animals to use them at more natural intervals. Food plots become part of an animal’s natural habitat. Bait piles can be replenished over and over in the same location and alter a deer’s natural movement. By placing bait, one hunter can effectively nullify another hunter’s attempt to harvest a deer.
Food plots can be sustainable throughout the season—they don’t disappear after a person has harvested a deer and they provide food and shelter for a variety of other wildlife.
And bait plots don't do the same thing on a larger scale?
Food plots are dispersed over a much larger area than bait piles and allow animals to use them at more natural intervals. Food plots become part of an animal’s natural habitat. Bait piles can be replenished over and over in the same location and alter a deer’s natural movement.
Again don't bait plots do the same thing?
By placing bait, one hunter can effectively nullify another hunter’s attempt to harvest a deer.
Again don't bait plots do the same thing? Attract and pull deer from neighbors or other areas effectively nullifying their attempt to harvest a deer?
I hunt just north of Winona Minn. The farmer leaves about 1 acre of corn stand in every corner and nipple of his fields just for the hunters. He has over 1000 ac. By doing these corner and nipple plots the deer come out of the woods is smaller more huntable areas or patterns. If you notice my first photo I'm doing the same thing my shot is only 30yds across. Long and narrow bait plots are the key.
Most years after my pumpkins are done growing I can till the ground around them and replant with winter rye and turnips for added tonnage. The turnips won't mature but you get some nice small lush tops .
This argument has been going on for as long as I've been on here. We shouldn't be wasting our time on this. It is only a matter of time before the whole state will have your ban because of CWD. In the NEAR future you will be seeing in the news where another deer has tested positively for CWD and more counties will be ban.
I recently read a poster on here advertising to pay money for a positive CWD deer for Lincoln Co. How sad is that! Wanting to bring in a diseased deer to ban baiting not really knowing what the real effect that diseased deer could do in spreading CWD to deer in that Co.. Is this ethical? I agree with you Mike that ethics can but a real gray area for almost all aspects of hunting for each individual hunter.
I wish everyone who hunts down south in high deer density areas would come up here and hunt for a full season in Price, Ashland and Iron Co. Maybe they could realize just how good they have it. We have bigger issues up here with the deer numbers then baiting.
Our CWD up here stands for Coyote, Wolf Depredation. They are killing far more deer then the CWD disease.
I don't care if they ban it or not ....But be fair to ALL.
I didn’t single you out in my previous post. My comments and this thread are not about you, or the buck you shot this year or whether you can kill deer with or without bait.
The incident where the baiter and his young son harassed me and my step-son and told us we weren’t allowed to hunt a huge chunk of public land because they were baiting there was not an isolated incident. It appears as though you’re making assumptions in an attempt to minimize the unfortunate reality of the situation. That incident was the culmination of numerous negative interactions with a group of baiters who actually came to my buddy’s cabin and threatened war with us. You bringing it up once again gives me the opportunity to share the ugliness of the situation where an adult was teaching his young son the technique of claiming public land and harassing others who wish to hunt there even though I had been hunting there for several years.
There were also negative interactions with other baiters who made cabin visits that became heated and almost ended up in violence. There have been numerous incidents of harassment, leaving notes on trucks, etc. etc.
You don’t have to believe me and I really don’t care because those of us who have lived it and experienced it know the truth. Life is too short to deal with this crap and you shouldn’t have to call the Sheriff because you want to hunt public land.
Yes there are other issues that negatively affect deer and hunters but this thread is about baiting. If you want to talk about those other things you could always start another thread and we can discuss and debate them there rather than using them in an attempt to deflect from the discussion of baiting on this thread… Just a thought...
Only because of political pressures.
There are conservation wardens and others in the wildlife management field who are against baiting and it has nothing to do with political pressures.
The general public for the most part is against baiting and it has nothing to do with political pressure.
I have never seen hunting regulations from any state that talks about the positive effects of baiting. Yes it may be legal and they may tolerate and regulate it but I challenge anybody to produce regulations that highlight any positives of baiting
To the contrary, we have Minnesota's regulations that actually point out some of the negatives.
I also challenge anybody to produce one scientific study that shows the positive effects of baiting.
The vast majority of scientific information and the vast majority of opinions of those in the know are against baiting but yet it contiues to be legal... and why...?
CaptMike nailed it, POLITICAL PRESSURES!
Elk, I didn't think this was a private conversation when I "jumped in." I suppose I could look back and see when you "jumped in" but the truth is I could care less.
If I understand CHM's post, he was agreeing with something I initially said.
Run and gun! You shot to many big bucks during the rifle season. You had to of used corn? No? Ohh?? Cheesehead mike. I just don't like the way you kill big deer either!! Everyone has bad ethics!
Sorry to blow so much smoke. I hope you find humor in this.
I also agree with mikethecheesehead in that no minds will be changed here and with captnmike that this is the least effective place to lodge a complaint (but it is funny as hell so don’t stop).
In fact nothing posted here will amount to anything (except knee slapping entertainment). Call your elected rep if you are serious about making sure baiting remains legal or if you want it made illegal but again, don’t stop the drama and the over-acting taking place here. (especially from the antis. You guys are the funniest of all).
"Run and gun! You shot to many big bucks during the rifle season. You had to of used corn? No? "
Nocturnal18. Don't forget the bow season. We killed the hell out of the big bucks then too. No bait piles or bait fields for me (and yes they do the same thing. Don't let anybody pretend otherwise lest they look like a dope trying)
Keep it going guys. My seasons are over so this pissing and crying and whining will have to do for me until we can actually have hunting topics of an adult nature.
I never found this thread funny. Or a knee slapper by any means. It's getting ridiculous. As some people have stated. The threads that take off are the ones that pose negativity. I'm against baiting too. And I stand right with cheesehead and Elk.
My post was painted with a broad brush so to speak and I did reference you in many parts!
Of all the posters on here, you tell the most interesting story about a bait war! Sorry it got to that!
I'm a law and order kinda guys and I believe involving the boys in blue..or brown is the way to go - but too each there own!
My story and hunting experiences are much different and have never had a "bait war" or someone tell me he/she "claims" the land - hunted public for many - many years....
I guess I'm just lucky!
Most of what fuels anti bait people is the fact that they believe someone is getting away with something - taking a short cut and "cashing in."
People in general don't like that and I can understand that.
To those folks, most who have never baited a day in their life - it all looks so very, very easy with images of giant bucks being taken with little to no effort.
It doesn't help when people violate the baiting laws either, adding fuel to the fire.
If baiting went away tomorrow...wouldn't bother me, as far as killing deer. I'd still kill them...
My late December and January hunts would just be a little less interesting!
2nd day of muzzleloader season today? How many made it out?
Spike buck chasing a doe...and grunting! Pretty cool
Some of those animals traveled 25 miles to winter in that valley. .
Looks like a lot of nose to nose contact - They have turned nocturnal and well...I guess the daily patterns have changed!
Tongue in cheek!
Glen - doesn't look like much snow on the ground there!
Well another baiting thread is almost to bed.....
Thank the good Lord and Greyhound....
Elk are grazers where deer are browsers. There is a big difference on how each makes it through a tough winter.
My biggest gripe with baiting is the claiming of public land and the way it messes with deer movement patterns. Those of us who hunt the northwoods know how sparse the deer population is. Some of us hunt and work very hard to put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure out how to kill a big buck. Sometimes just as we're figuring things out the big bait piles and all the activity that goes along with dumping bait shows up and all of a sudden deer movement patterns change. And then on top of all that we have to deal with harassment and territorialism.
If baiters kept a low profile and didn't make so much noise, spread so much scent around and introduce foreign food sources ALL HUNTERS would still have a chance to kill deer. Some baiters may never kill a deer if they stopped baiting because they don't have the first clue but I believe that most baiters would figure it out and they would be successful if they quit. In fact they might possibly be more successful once they learned to keep a low profile.
I admit that I've tried baiting before because I felt like I had to because everybody else was doing it. I couldn't help but wonder if I was messing myself up while I was sitting there watching that bait or what else I was missing as bucks were moving and laying down fresh sign elsewhere as I was staring at that bait pile.
Past experience has shown that I can put myself into position for 1-4 opportunities at P&Y class bucks each year without bait. Would those opportunities increase or decrease if I baited? I don't know but why gamble when history has shown that the opportunities are there without bait.
I firmly believe that most baiters are shooting themselves in the foot, except of course for those who are clueless and would never kill a deer without it.
I don't think any of this is rocket science, the keys to killing mature bucks or any deer for that matter are really pretty simple and anybody could do it without bait. If all hunters hunted without bait it would minimize negative impact on each other and the playing field would be leveled in regard to impact on deer movement patterns.
I know there are those who don't believe that bait and the act of baiting really affects things but those of us who have lived it know differently.
The purpose and intent is one in the same between baiting and bait plots. You can twist it, justify it all you want. LOL
Grass out west and browse in the mid-west.
Elk are NATURAL grazers and deer are NATURAL browsers but like all animals they take the easy source first.
But yeah like the rest of this thread twist away.
These threads always smell.
With anything else, some take advantage and don't play fair...or legal! That is sad and the world we live in.
There are plenty of good baiter folks out there. Ya never hear of them.
The bad guys always take center stage -
"I do bait at 2 1/2 gallons twice a week in two spots"
The only reason I pose the question is because the hunters in WI are so 'entitled' to a deer that they will blame anyone from the WDNR to their neighbor for not getting a deer. Instead of looking in the mirror and asking themselves why on earth do I continue to shoot multiple does and the 1st buck that walks into view? That is the reason I did not gun hunt WI this year. It may never happen again as I had a very enjoyable experience seeing over 200 deer (56 being bucks, not all different) archery hunting in another state during the WI opening weekend. It takes a 1 1/2 archery and gun seasons to do that WI :) because of the type of hunters in the state.
Stop bickering and using excuses as to why there aren't many deer throughout the state and start using your heads. No biologist is going to grow the herd. The hunters have to use their heads and grow the herd themselves.
