How much shooting up north?
Wisconsin
I was curious how much shooting any other north woods hunters have heard so far this season. I can honestly say this may be the least I have ever heard. It will be interesting to see some numbers when they come out. Maybe I'll find out I need to get my hearing checked. Myself and relatives are scattered through Price and Sawyer counties. Relatives also heard very little.
More than the last couple years in Northern Bayfield County. Our group also has seen more deer than the last 3 years combined. Lots of does with twin or single fawns. In spite of the fact that we also have been seeing more wolves than usual.
I am not hearing the shots or seeing the deer or hunters like Old Baldy is in Northern Bayfield County. Opening day heard 5 shots. License sales are way down. Local gas station told me license sales are way down also. Its unbelievable the areas up here that once was the stomping grounds for many hunters are now vacant. Stopped at a few camps, frustration is what I am hearing, one camp did have 3 bucks for 10 hunters, one nice 3 year old 9 point. The very few deer that I did see at camps were 1 1/2 year olds. But the hunters in the camps are having fun.
Considering there are no antlerless tags I would say shooting is up from what I am hearing.
Just called Valhalla view Pub-n-Grub outside of Washburn, they have a buck board every year, 137 hunters on the board and only 3 bucks have been registered so far.
NWO... I agree about the 1 1/2 year-olds. We are seeing a lot of them too. I'm thinking that with very few antlerless being shot the last couple seasons, more of the buck fawns survived. A nice bonus of no doe tags!
Actually there are a lot of doe tags in the North. There were 232 doe taken in Bayfield county alone. This link does not show that but the updated info today showed the 232. No need to give out doe tags anymore in the North just let the kids kill them.
Lincoln cty - we have counted shots on Saturday for about 15 years. We heard 3 shots, the record is 47 . Yes 47 .
We did pass on 2 does & 1 Buck .
Been less than a box of shells shot in the Flambeau River State Forest so far. Saw 11 elk opening day, but deer are hard to come buy. We had out first successful drive today. The standers actually saw a deer. Put on 13 miles today making one man pushes. See some doe and fawn tracks and the odd young buck. Finally found a good track tonight, but the snow is almost gone. Doesn't matter what time you go past most of the hunting cabins all the trucks are lined up out front. Guys gave up before they even started. Moral is pretty low.
I hunt near Park Falls. Some years, I could hear 20 to 40 shots on opening day.
This year, I heard less than 10 total for Saturday and Sunday.
I did see quite a few tracks. So there are still a few deer around. I assume that the lack of shots was due to lack of deer and the lack of deer hunters. I know a lot of hunters who don't make the trip any more.
The local media (Milwaukee) has already reported the gun season a success . Also , the call in registration was mentioned -its greatness and ease of use was reported as a appreciated change by all the hunters . I don’t trust the numbers that are being posted and reported . I think the DNR manipulates the numbers a spins the gun season as the greatest thing there ever was . Open or unlimited Buck Tags for all who want to pay is suspicious and shines a bright light as to the fact that this a revenue maker for the DNR . Because the DNR thinks it is great is enough reason for me to think it is not . Also in 2015 the last thing that any deer herd needs on most tracts of land is to be gun hunted period .
I had very little shooting on the large chunk of public land my family hunts in the Polk Country Sterling Township Barrens. I counted shot were about 50% less than last year. I keep a journal.
Oddly enough if you go online to the WI DNR they are reporting an opening weekend harvest for my County at 11% less than the year before.
I would have expected it to be much lower than that. Half of the twenty hunters in my group didn't even see any deer, and I have heard similar reports from other camps in the area.
yesterday the dnr had a different harvest report posted on the "Deer harvest by zone and county separated by season" but I see they pulled that report sometime late yesterday. My guess is the new system is having a few hiccups.
"the WI DNR they are reporting an opening weekend harvest for my County at 11% less than the year before."
keep in mind that last year numbers were record lows so this should tell you where the deer population is at in your area. dismal
smokey is it time to start releasing more doe tags yet based on your facts? i think someone wakes up in a cold sweat screaming after a nightmare in which 2 does walk though the national forest eating tiny maple and oak saplings;)
Very little shooting opening weekend just north of Barnes. More deer it seems than last year. Preliminary totals for bayfield and sawyer were about same or slightly less than last year.
No, it's not. My comment was that there will be a time that we will need to issue them or we will be in a worse situation that we are now.
If this winter is another mild one then that time is not far off.
Hunted with 6 guys in Iron County forest (Private land) near the Pleasant Lake Lookout tower. I heard 1 shot (but my heater was running most of the day). At any rate, very few shots occurred and between the six of us, by the time I left at 2:30 on Sunday nobody had seen a deer. There were 0 deer hanging at any camps on the way out and I saw zero deer on cars on the way home until I was south of Stevens Point.
"If this winter is another mild one then that time is not far off"
don't you think the youth doe kill will more than enough take care of the "surplus" does we will have?
secondly you say you base your decisions off of facts. are they your facts or the dnr facts? what i mean by that is have you gone into the wintering grounds and verified that there is not enough browse for x amount of deer? is there some calculation that you have done? since we have had several years with low populations is there not more browse available for that one bad winter? please expound on what facts you are using to make your decisions. can you give us a link?
ntersting that my trailcams show an increase in numbers but most dropped off the week before gun season. HMMM.
Not my facts or the DNR facts. Knowledge of many people doing unbiased research. I spend a great deal of time outdoors year round. I have seen what poor management did in the past. Plenty of sources of information to understand it. Over the years crashes happened after two or three hard winters. They were at one time very large crashes that took a long time to recover. That is until we understood that winter was the limiting factor. Population swings are less now.
It will take some time to build back up and that is what has been going on with no antlerless tags for two years now. Some areas could go another year perhaps but some might need to have a few next year.Many are seeing more deer just not at the high numbers we had for a while. My guess is that we might never get back to that high of a number but evern if we did, people will still complain.
"They were at one time very large crashes that took a long time to recover"
using the kill numbers posted by the dnr year after year please point me to the years you are talking about. lets use bayfield as the test ground. or just tell me the years and I will look myself. I should see very low kill numbers for many years if what you tell me is correct. even lower than what we are seeing in the last 2 years. please give me the years.
you keep saying there are no antlerless tags but we both know that is not the case. the dnr was very cunning in the fact of giving kids tags to achieve their goal of doe reduction. most politically correct hunters are afraid to say the kids should not be given the doe tag in order to let the population rebound. the dnr knew this so they came up with giving youth a doe tag for 5 years to achieve the goal. sad but smart on their part.
I hunt in S.W. Shawano Co. and heard very little shooting as compared to years past.
First, was it the DNR that gave the youth tags or the Legislature?
Read Otis Bersing for the other answer.
I am not trying to personalize this or attack anyone. But there is a lot of information on managing whitetail.
Some info:
WE hunt around Luna and White deer lakes off Hwy 70. In our area there are around 35 hunters including us in our section, not including drive up day hunters from Eagle River. No shots, not one single one Saturday thru Monday afternoon. There are some deer tracks, lots of fresh bear tracks, no wolf tracks like in the past.
Do a search for things like: Deer habitat, Deer starvation for a ton of information.
Is it better to let them starve in a harsh winter or have them in your freezer? In the harsh winters and the springs that followed I have found bones from deer that starved. Not eaten by wolves either.
We all like to see deer and at this time we are rebuilding the herd but be careful in how that gets done.
I cant speak for other Counties but in Northern Bayfield County I don't think the appropriate people really realize how bad off the deer herd is or maybe they do and would like to keep it that way. At what point do deer start to rebound? There is plenty of great habitat here to sustain way more deer. So, two years from now if the deer herd still shows a decline, what excuse's will we hear. I said that comment two years ago and here we are, worse than the year before.
NWO, well said. I don't hunt your area or get there much anymore. Maybe sometime in the near future I can and see what is happening. Why are there not more people attending the County CDAC meetings with solid evidence of the situation to recommend action?
I don't know if you attended them, I know of your health issues, but in most cases it looks like very low attendance. But just like the CC hearings, are hunters using the best information and do they have the best recommendations for the fix?
Example: A hunter that spends a few days a year hunting, sees few deer, how can he make a solid recommendation of increasing the herd? Just one example.
Yes that link that was there yesterday is gone now on the DNR web site. I printed it out.
I agree with what NWO is hearing and seeing. I live by Port Wing and the buck kill is really down. I think the latest DNR County Kill report is way off from what it was showing at 10 am on Sunday. It went from 114 at 10 AM Sunday, to 845 on Monday night on the new PDF chart! I have talked with a lot of hunters that have only seen one or two deer in 3 days of hunting. The woods is really quiet with hunters saying they only hear a "Hand full of shots" each day. Most of the bucks that are being shot are 1.5 year olds. I've been hunting this same township for 30 years and decided not to gun hunt this year due to the lack of deer I've seen while bow hunting. I spent opening weekend driving around and checking to see 'who was hunting where' and could not believe the lack of trucks parked in hunting areas where there should have been hunters. I also have an occupation that involves a lot of outside work and traveling around Bayfield county and did not see the deer along roadsides and in fields compared to last year. I feel the number one problem is the high predator numbers. Being it wolves, coyotes, bears, mountain lions, and yes, they are here, or bobcats, we have too many of them!....just my opinion!
Buckwacka...I hunt the Corni area 80% of the time, the Port Wing area used to get pounded by hunters and held lots of deer, and monster bucks. I will stick to the muzzle loader season and without snow its going to be a tough hunt.
smokey i was just looking for the years were you claim huge winter loss was taken and it took years to come back from. can you give me that data? i will do the research and compare it to resent years. what do you have to lose? nothing
you continue to ignore the elephant in the room which is youth doe tags. does that not accomplish your goal of keeping our “surplus” of does down? these are different times due to the wolf population and you cannot see that.
“Is it better to let them starve in a harsh winter or have them in your freezer?”
you cannot prove that they will starve your only guessing they will. sure some will be lost but not on the magnitude you preach.
as to all these links you supplied they are general observations of the deer herd in north america. sure in states like MO, IA, IL, KS were winters are weak and there are no wolves or bear and doe tend to have 2 fawns you have to kill them but you cannot apply the same thinking in northern wisconsin. no way.
County CDAC meetings - now that is funny right there do you think they will be as helpful as the CC and the spring deer hearings were? because hey that's how we got to the doe are vermin kill them all point. show up give solid information then watch them do what they want to do.
please give me the years i requested above.
Working in Marathon Co during the season. Wardens have been a busy bunch. Harvest numbers seem sluggish. I have seen more fawns in Lincoln and Oneida Co's this year. Hopefully that pays off.
Hard to hunt the northwoods. Im no pro but do my homework. Many pinch points look great on paper but only hold 2-3 deer. Moral takes a hit when your spots fail.
I gave you the sources to check, you will need to cross them with the weather but you will see the correlation with the drop in deer numbers. Since SAK and antlerless was implemented there was not as drastic of drop after hard winters.
Yes, they will starve in harsh winters. If the snow is too deep and limits travel to a food source they will starve. When I find a dead deer in the winter or spring I know it was starved.
The links were just a few to get you started in the direction. Search and you will find plenty more. Read Leopold, Grinnel,etc.
No the youth hunts are not the answer. IMO there should be no antlerless permits at this time.
Here on the vilas onieda border. By 830 opening morning heard just 2 shots. So far I have heard a total of 39 shots for the season. Past years I would hear close to and sometimes more than 300 just in the morning before lunch break, and again in the afternoon opening weekend!
I have seen only 2 bucks so far. A spike and a small 3.5yr old. Heard of 5 others. Have talked to many hunters in the field all saying and seeing the same. No deer!!
Now I left opening day at 830 am and went to Nekoosa. Didnt go 10 miles and seen the effects of this. Normally from my place to big arb lake. there would be 50-75 vehicles. There were a total of 5 all the way to hwy 51!!! Behind my house would be 10-15 this year 3. On one of the main roads my bear baits are on. There is normally 25-30. This year only 1 and that was one of my bear hunters I sent there after loosing his hunting spot down south!
Now continuing down the hwy. I did not see more than 75 vehicles/ hunters in total the whole way down. All the big tower blinds along 51 were empty except 1. The most I seen up to wauasu was just north of wausau. There were 9 in one area split north and south of a gravel pit. The bulk of all hunters I seen. Where between plover and nekoosa.
That is a lot of miles opening day seeing very few hunters!!! Very few hunters around this area in general.
During my travel opening day. I could not help but think. The anti's have won, deer hunting is dead!
My thought has been that this is just another dagger in the heart of a failing northwoods economy. Millions of dollars in lost revenue no doubt.
If you have not seen this. Here is a picture from opening weekend in douglas county. This is on roos rd. Wonder why no deer in the area?
Yes they economy is taking a huge hit. A relative of mine works in a 28 room hotel...there were only two rooms booked for opening weekend by hunters. One traditional group of 28 guys have been coming up here for years and staying at the hotel.... they canceled out this year.... was asked why and they said after last year (4 deer shot) we are going to try some where else.
I live in Hayward-and hunt Northern Sawyer County- mostly Private land- 11 shots opening day-usually hear 30-50 or so. Second morning I heard 4 shots I can hear all the way to Hayward and almost to Seeley- a big area. Very slow- I saw the most in our group-8 does in 5 sits-very slow. Lack of snow, hunters and deer This is big country-all wooded. Its just enough presure to spook the deer and with the rut activity almost over-its tough hunting to say the least-but its still fun. I had to work today-took the back roads to work-11 miles-saw two trucks-One had a doe standing 20 ft from the guys parked truck on County land next to tag alder road! That was a good laugh! Here is what I tell my kids-you cant kill a buck if you give up! You never know when one is going to step out.
I gun hunt in Marinette County.....the forest portion, not the central farmland
I was on stand the entire day both Saturday and Sunday and heard 15 shots Saturday and 3 on Sunday.
Just a formal observation of traffic in the area and crowds at the local bars/restaurants on Friday evening...
hunter numbers are way down
Smokey, Thanks for showing the info that you did but this is for the whole state correct? I think if we had a heat map showing the whole state and harvest numbers for each unit it would be beneficial to whoever is trying to manage the herd at the state level. Does any body here know of a heat map or something similar showing harvest totals in each unit over the years?
I also hunt, or I should say used to hunt the Herbster, Corny, Bayfield, Washburn area. Contrary to what any statewide data may indicate, the herd there is far, more like light years away from having an impact on available habitat.
The herd was much larger several years back and there were not huge crashes after severe winters. Yes there was some winter-kill but it was far from a crash.
There have always been severe winters and the deer have survived them.
The difference now is that the DNR ignorantly promoted too liberal of antlerless harvest for over a decade, there may be too many bears and the bleeding hearts have prevented proper management of the wolf population.
Lack of suitable habitat is not the problem in Northern Bayfield County.
This link will get you to the CDAC data by County.
Thanks for the link smokey. Excellent info that every person here should see if they have not already. It shows just how bad things have become. For example, according to the info in the link my county of Price has 536 square miles of public land classified as deer range. Out of these 536 square miles there was a total of 176 antlered deer registered during the 2014 gun season. An extremely low number which is no surprise.
As usual Cheesehead Mike is right on the money. I did not expect to come back till the 15th of December, but came home for turkey day, since the girls are back home.......
Here it is in a nutshell. I went to a big dinner and camp fire on Monday nite. a lot of guys came. these are not dunder heads, they are all good woodsman....
They do not want to hear anymore ra ra stories from outdoor writers, and WON, about the deer herd, they are all fed up, and they are quite sad, and the picture looks dim.......
two of these guys always hunted Ontario, but with the increase of bears, and the wolves, they said, the situation up there is bad, but at least the spring bear season is going to return.....
they guys hunting forest county reported a lot of shooting and it was not at deer,,,,,,,, you can draw your own conclusion,,,,,,,
I saw deer in MI, but Wis was bleak,,,,, some small bucks shot, and one dandy, but for the most part, nothing was moving......
I have some good spots along the Brule River. lots of sign, and rubs, and my cameras do not lie, but to tell you the truth, with the truck loads and I mean truck loads of bait, in the area, what reason does a deer have to move in day lite........
I love the big woods, but will be in Waupaca Co for the ML season, since I would like some venison in the freezer,,,,,,,
Wis has not had a good deer management plan, since Keith McCaffrey left, and so far their plan for the north has been a disaster.......
sorry for the rant, but its a dam shame, what they have done to the north
Interesting - I'm confused, though, by the suggestions to allow more doe permits. If the herd numbers are down, what is the rationale for allowing more does to be harvested? Last I heard, bucks come from does. Did I maybe misunderstand what was being suggested?
I'm far from a wildlife biologist, but from what I have read the areas to focus on are habitat, food, and predation if you need to improve herd numbers.
Razorhead, you are spot on about the increase of corn being dumped here in the north. I took this pic on Nov. 12 at our local gas station of the corn stockpiled. It took about a week and 90% of it was gone. These "Deer Paparazzi" hunters are making it really tough for the average hunter to see deer moving naturally in the daylight ours. They then get a picture of a big buck on the 'golden scrape', and they think its there's! I can't wait until the day they ban baiting! Maybe I'll even buy a gun tag again!
"sorry for the rant, but its a dam shame, what they have done to the north"
Unfortunately they're trying to do it to the south/central also and eventually they'll get their way. All we hear about is farm lands overrun with deer, forests are in jeopardy, cwd is running rampant, and the rest of the bs. Personally I don't think the DNR will be satisfied until all of wi is as dismal as the north, and it's apparent that year after year of hunters dropping out due to lack of deer sightings means nothing to them.
smokie i think that you are such a rank and file kind of guy that you can’t see the forest for the trees. for example you make a statement that “There were at one time very large crashes that took a long time to recover.” so I ask you to name them but you won’t because you know it is easy to prove that you are incorrect. since 1986 there have only been 3 years that the winter severity index has been over 100 which is very severe. those years were 1995/96, 1996/97, and 2013/14. so according to you it would have taken many, many years for us to recover from the very severe winters of 95/96 and 96/97 two very severe winters in a ROW with VERY HIGH DEER POPULATIONS GOING INTO THOSE WINTERS as verified by the 2nd largest buck kill in wisconsin in 1994. but what happens after 2 extreme winters in a row with high deer populations going into those winters? 97 the kill drops but is still better than what we have today. 1998 is the 4th best buck kill ever, 1999 is the 3rd best buck kill ever, and 2000 is the #1 best buck kill ever. you need to do more research because what you are saying is far from “fact” it’s more like forester propaganda. the landscape can handle more deer and they will be just fine when a bad winters hits. doe tags and wolves are why we are where we are. we can control the doe tags and they need to stop probably for good since we cannot control the wolves.
Well said Upnorth. I was thinking of the 95,96,97 winters as well and the good hunting that followed those years. How could we possibly have such a fast recovery in the herd after those winters and now we have been in a 14-15 year decline (Price county). A couple years is one thing but a decade and a half? Time for some to open their eyes. Even if the heard was too high around 2000 we still have a 10~ year steady decline. To think that the buck kill has gone down every year for the last 14-15 years and some peoples idea to get youths interested in hunting is to let them shoot does is just incredible.
I am not saying issue antlerless permits at this time but sometime in the future.
Upnorth you are still misinterpreting what I am saying. There were crashes just not as huge as we had recently and since winter is the limiting factor in the north that is what the nerd needs to be manged for. Or do you think there was no crash?
You are looking at the years when there was antlerless tags but you need to look at history when the hunters demanded no does shooting and the herd exceeded CC. That is when the big crashes took place and took years to recover. Look into the history back when Leopold and others were threatened with their lives over the suggestion of shooting does.
Peoples observations vary. Some see few deer while someone else nearby will say they are seeing more. The kill is down and that is only because the herd is down from what it was two years ago. No doubt the high predator population has a larger impact on the herd too but that does not account for all the starved deer I found after the harsh winter. Cold and deep snow prevent those deer from reaching available food so no matter what your habitat food amount is the die.
In the areas that I hunt there has been active logging going on for the last couple of years. 2014 the deer looked bad until July and then the insects wore them down, hunting was very poor that year. 2015, easy winter, lots of browse and good summer the deer looked healthy coming out of winter and put on weight, more fawns spotted.
Logging for the last 8 years has been crazy in Northern Bayfield County, thousands and thousands of acres being logged off, no excuse for not having great habitat for deer.
Smokey...If interested this coming 2016 mid Summer when what deer we have left are dispersed and are back in the areas they were born I want you to come up for a day or two, we will put on a few miles and drive the dirt roads in the National Forest and County forests. I think you will be astonished at how few tracks you will see. I will show you the logging operation's going on or went on during this past winter and past years etc. You can post on here your professional view.
We will add a little bear baiting for fun.
bottom line, timber, agricultural, insurance, and the flora and fauna crowd, do not want a large deer herd, and their influence in Madison, the last 10 years, have for the most part, taken the herd down,,,,,,,,
a large deer herd, may be what we want, but not anyone else.......
I hear every year, no matter who is in charge of the DNR, what a billion dollar business deer hunting is for the states economy, and I always have to wonder, than why do they want to devastate the herd like they do........
What is it that some cannot comprehend? I never said there were a lot of deer there after the harsh winters.
I just don't think the comprehension problem is on our side.
Sorry but shooting more does means a bigger deer herd BULL! Another mag article that means nothing to the average hunter. If you are in a controlled area HIGH FENCE it may help the population by thinning the does but in real life I say no way!
i do not agree with that 10bucks. in southern wi or states like il, ia, and mo they need to knock the herd back. in some of those states a certain percentage of that years fawns come in heat in december so population control is needed. the top 1/3 of wi no does should be taken due to winter, wolves, bear, and yotes.
the big change in northern wi is the wolf population and some can not and will not factor that "NEW" data in and still think times are the same. most of those thinkers are old school want a be biologists. they will die thinking they know exactly how many deer can live in a given range when they have no clue.
A bad winter every 4 or 5 years, an increase of Wolves doesn't help the Deer population. BUT 1 big problem is the Bear population. The Bear kill waaay more Deer than the DNR or the bear orgs will admit.
We need to double the number of bear tags .
There is one part of the equation that always seems to be avoided. Dont know whey that is.
The years following those hard winters and high success rates. There is one thing missing back then that we have now. An exploded WOLF POPULATION!
I hunted north of 70 until about 05. Now I will not go north at all if possible. Only 1 area I might and that is very rare at best. After 05 just far too infested to hunt safely.
Not long ago a guy could drive almost any early morning or night. From Minoxqua up 51 to Hwy M to Boulder Junction. Was nothing to see 150-200 deer in that trip. Now it is rare to even see one deer!
Now of course the unlimited tags took it's toll. But for several years now buck only. Along with hunter numbers decreasing. It would be easily obvious to say the deer numbers should be increasing there again. But they are not. Why is that? Less hunters, shooting less deer, but numbers still declining? It couldn't be that there is a confirmed pack of WOLVES on both sides of Hwy 51 in that stretch. We wont even count or bring up the ones that the WDNR wont count or confirm exist. Just the official 2 packs.
I know it has no bearing on the population at all.
“You are looking at the years when there was antlerless tags but you need to look at history when the hunters demanded no does shooting and the herd exceeded CC. That is when the big crashes took place and took years to recover. Look into the history back when Leopold and others were threatened with their lives over the suggestion of shooting does.”
now I think we are getting somewhere. why would I even care what happened in a mans life that took place from 1887 to 1948? are you kidding me? those dudes hated wolves and tried to kill every last one. they had paul bunyan and babe the blue ox cutting down forest to grow america. their hands were not tied by people with no common sense. if you are basing your thoughts on a time long gone where NOTHING is the same i think we have found the problem
“ Cold and deep snow prevent those deer from reaching available food so no matter what your habitat food amount is the die.”
why did the winters of 95 and 96 not knock the herd down to the numbers of today? 2 nasty winters in a row.
"threatened with their lives over the suggestion of shooting does."
i forgot to add if we take one thing from the life of leopold this would be a good one for the northern wi region.
thanks Ruger,,,,, of course we should be shooting more bears,,,, heck I have shot a lot of them and love eating them.....
but now we are into TROPHY MGT....... we need to kill more bears over 500lbs than anyone else....
meanwhile we have a lot of bears, and the fawns suffer.......
the bear tags should be a lot more, those of us that are in the woods, and are not bear guides no this..........
Don't get me wrong gang, I have 4 friends that are Bear guides or outfitters. They know my opinion.
Bears come out of their dens in the spring when there are very few foods for them. A wise old bear knows where the Deer birthing areas are located & will wipe out a bunch of Fawns.
Lets have a spring season for bears. Harvest 2,000 , hav ing bait all over the woods North of hwy 29 would save 1000's of Fawns per & 1/2 of those will give birth many time ...do the math .
Won't hurt the Bears, when I was young, you went to the hardware store, bought a bear tag, just in case you saw a bear. They survived just fne . Geez my ohone is soaked, rain is now snnow. E
Bears do very little to the deer herd. They are not out killing deer on a year round basis. Rare for them to ever kill a healthy mature deer. Perhaps they get lucky to get a few fawns, but be realistic. A bear is not going to waste energy chasing down a small snack. It's really nothing more than an excuse to be able to kill more bears. Then when that population goes in the toilet as well. Will want to blame the WDNR for not managing them properly either.
Crying about bears, but little is done to the major deer pedators. Wolves and Coyotes kill far more. Yet, folks are always so reluctant to allow these to be managed.
One larger tract of land here. The owners are constantly crying about the coyotes, and bears killing all the deer. Well there are very few bear in that area. I mean very few. I got baits around it that are pretty much useless. Bait goes bad if the coons dont get in it. Coyotes are extremely thick. Have asked numerous times for permission to hunt(call) and trap them out. Always the same answer. A BIG NO, normally with a few adjectives as well. Then dont cry about the deer if you wont allow the predators to be controlled. There are actually more wolves in the area than there is bear. Far more bobcats as well. Then never discount what a fisher will do. No doubt they can and will take a fawn down. Main complaint from them is always bears. then coyotes. A rare bear and a pile of coyotes that are not managed. The bear I can pull to baits if they are near, but that is not the case.
Until the wolves and coyotes are thinned there wont be much improvement. Feeding is almost as bad in many cases. Right here at my place 17 have been killed this year because of feeding at homes. Doubt there will be 17 more to replace those lost come spring!
Steve I do respect you, but do not agree, the bears take a lot of fawns,,,,,,
however, the worst problem I agree are the coyotes, which should have a bounty on them, and of course the wolves,,,,,, well what can you say or do,,,,,
Looking foreword to trapping for the big dogs again the fall of 2016.
Fisher, Bobcats, Coyote, Wolves, Bear, Cars, Humans, and Weather all play a factor in fawn mortality. To say the Black Bear is the reason for the demise of the northern deer herd is foolish.
Northern Douglas county here. Heard far fewer shots this year than the previous two but everyone in the area I know who hunted seen more deer, just not with antlers. I was sort of surprised as trail cams showed more than previous years. Deer just didn't seem to be moving once the orange army arrived. Definitely going to get a coyote trapper out this winter though. Way to much activity from them. I wish they would make themselves useful and start catching some of the Beavers causing me trouble.
Will, no one the BEAR is the reason, its part of the problem&we can control that problem.
We have very little control over weather & and no control over the wolves.
No hard feelings will.
Bear guys are very passionate & do a great job defending your bears
Better than the deer groups.
Thinks its all over now. Its a wall of white out there. Even if you could tell where you are going, you can't see 50'.
My best day of rifle season this year. I actually seen and past up a little buck. I heard a shot this afternoon also so they must have really been moving.
I can see where Smokey is coming from. Around 2000 there were too many deer in the state. You can not deny they were causing damage to natural forest growth and creating problems for vehicles ( I hit 4 of them myself over a few year period). They were being viewed as a pest. As much as I liked to see lots of deer when I was on the stand, it wasn't much of a challenge to kill one. The population has definitely taken a downward spiral over the last 10 years. High numbers of doe tags and the hunters willing to use them were the main reason. But I believe the population is better this year. I see wolves all year. Yet the trail cams we have out showed quite a few fawns, including several sets of twins. And those fawns are still running around. Despite the fact that we saw wolves every day of rifle season and many times while bow hunting. The wolves are surely killing many deer. But there appears to be enough deer left to increase the population. Easy winters will continue to help the process. There will be a time in the next few years where doe tags will be available again. If used cautiously they can be used to keep the population from getting "out of control" again. And if you or your group believe there is still not enough deer, then don't use those tags. I saw enough deer in our area, between Herbster and Port Wing, this year to keep me going out to the stand. I viewed the bucks we shot this year as better trophies because of the time we had to dedicate to connect on them. I also kinda liked the lack of other hunters in the area ;)
Ruger said. "when I was young, you went to the hardware store, bought a bear tag, just in case you saw a bear." True statement.
Not picking on you at all, some of us on here are old enough to remember that. But that being said few people were really interested in specifically 'hunting' bear back then. So about the only bear that got killed back then was the odd few that took a walk in the woods during the gun deer season and we all know how seldom that happens. (did have a bear track on my Hayward property during gun season last year tho) Back when tags were over the counter our deer hunting party numbered 15, in Marinette county. I don't remember anyone ever shooting one while I was in the party and don't remember any stories about bears being seen or killed as far back as when my grandfather owned the camp which dated back to when deer season was every second year.
Jeff, my gun hunting experiences in Bayfield County have been different. I could have shot a bear opening weekend of gun season several times, about 1 in 3 years. I wish we could still take one like the "old " days. Only 1 was in a den but I have had several come meandering thru the oaks, and a couple years ago, I was on the ground and almost run over.
The DNR had to stop giving Bear tags during gun season. More than a few Deer hunters would look for Bear dens, throw smoke bombs in the den & shoot the Bear as it came out. Some of my own relations did this. And many other Deer camps .
As much as I dislike Bears, this was just plain wring & the Dnr was right in stopping this pratice.
I agree, bears should not be shot in dens, never heard about the "smoke bombs"! Just saying it would be a cool bonus to shoot one if it wanders by deer stand.
The problem lies with the guy with the back tag. Taking way more deer than needed. Filling food pantries after filling their freezers. For what? So they can say they shot 5-10 deer? Quit placing blame on an animal that's doing what it's programmed to do be it bear, wolf, or Yote.
In the 70's when I started hunting in the central forested area of the state it was nothing to see 20-30 deer in a day. The deer population was no where near what it was in 2000 or today even. The human hunter and the way we hunt is today's issue.
Back in the day when you could shoot a bear while deer hunting it was rare to see a deer in the southern half of the state. Everyone went north to deer hunt. My dad would drive all day to get to Saxon and Patato a River area.
I'm not going to exploit one animal for the sake of the other when the true blame belongs to us human hunters.
In the 50's, 60's, & 70's Deer hunting exploded and the migration north started. It was not for the quanity of Deer. Never was. Period.In that time period Deer camps exploded Did you know you could build a Deer hunting cabin on state land? I stayed in one in Hurley. Helped build one outside of Eagle River.
The guys went " up nort " deer hunting for the following reasons .
A better chance at a " big buck "
Drink & play cards.
Visit the dollar bars :-) .
Gwt away from the big city ( Milw & Chi ) I have 350 oages of hunting notes covering 65 years. . Most hunters went north for other reasons than mire Deer.
We had the most deer seen in years in our camp of 8. 2 people saw 0, the rest saw a total of 13 deer Saturday through Wednesday. Does and unknown. I had an issue with getting into my good stand without spooking the deer off. Seemed to be more people around this year, not as much natural movement from the deer as last year when there were less people and less un-natural food. Shots were very low, but they were last year also.
I hunt Marathon, Oneida, and Lincoln Co. I hunt deer, bear, and coyotes. My job as a LE gives me the ability to see trends. I talk to other LE friends and DNR foot soldiers who dont make the laws but are forced to listen to the complaints.
Car vs deer crashes seem to be down. Many that are reported are not in rural areas.
Bear hunting in Oneida is easy. Tons on sows with cubs and the number of tags issued has gone up. Wolf population in that same county is REALLY HIGH. When trapping was allowed the local DNR agent did all he could to help others have success. As we know, many zones closed within days which didnt help.
Very few people hunt coyotes. Those that do tend to be hound hunters- bear hunters. Coyotes prey on deer yet other than a few shot during the season, they seem to get a pass from sportsman all year.
Crop damage tags need to be better regulated. All year the area I patrol has had fewer deer sightings-and everyone has expressed their concerns with me. Found out a farmer just north of town was issued 30 tags and he has filled 22 of them! And guess what, he's complaining about low deer numbers!!
When I shot a yote in Kansas I was skinning it close enough to the road that a passerby saw it and came over and talked to me. Turned out he was a wildlife manager out bird hunting. He said that yote are no longer being seen by wildlife managers as all evil. That they kill a lot of coon and possum and they think that the net effect of yote on birds/eggs is about cancelled out because there are less possum and coon killing the birds and eggs. Darn sure wish I had asked him about yote effect on deer.
I heard about 25 shots on yesterday (the last Saturday of season). Passed another small buck. I hunted from 10 AM until 430 PM. Near Clam Lake.
Not heard 1 shot in the last 4 days.
Deer now have specific birthing areas used year after year? When did this happen?
If bears play this major role. Then in the areas the bear harvest is highest, or is few bears if any. Then the deer numbers should be much higher in those area. Why is this not the case??
I would agree the guys wearing the back tags taking several deer a year are doing more damage. Wolves and coyotes next. Bears, cats, and fishers combined I doubt come even remotely close to wolves or coyotes.
Population near my house is not growing. Humans and coyotes major predators. All others have little impact.
I did hear about 10 or so shots yesterday and probably 15 or so Wednesday I think. Those two days seemed to have the most shooting in my area. Looking forward to late season with the bow and a better year next year.
Tough hunt Fri, Sat, Sun. No shots anywhere. Only 1 Deer, the 130 class walked out of the swamp at 4:28 , waved & headed to the Oak island for all those Acorns. Hope he makes it til next year.
Checked blind # 2 to pick up a tri pod chair and a small deer had bedded in the stand ( v-shaped blowdowns) . That was funny !
I was the only one hunting on the Lincoln-Onida county line. Woods was oh so still this afternoon. Not one shot was fired all afternoon. I hunted the bigwoods spot I scouted for bow hunting where I found the scrapes. The one scrape I passed was snow covered and showed no sign of any activity. Cut a large track on my walk in. He walked deeper into the woods on the same path I took and where I set up he makes a right turn and walks the edge of a cedar swamp and hardwoods. So he's still there but never showed himself. He anticipation was there though.
the kill in bayfield for all weapons is right at 2000 so far. that number should go to about 2200 when all is said and done and seasons are over.
take a look at the kill history for bayfield from 2006 to 2014. dismal. sure some of those years were the war on doe years so the kill is high. easy to see what we were doing now. increase in wolf population and bingo herd stays down and can't rebound for many years.
my hope is many will remember this in the future but i doubt it.
Read up on predator pit theory.
Bayfield County update: NWO, we stayed at Valhalla P&G so I can confirm your observation. For the last 3 years our party of 5 didn't see a deer but we did see wolves. Last year we couldn't get within a mile of where we normally hunt due to the snow so it wasn't hunted. This year our party saw 15-20 does (assuming some were seen more than once). We had deer running through the woods being chased by wolves on Saturday and Sunday but then moving normally on Monday and Tuesday so they don't get blown out of the county after being chased. Last year and the year before we heard 1-2 shots a day. This year 10-15 (and it was bucks only). We saw no bucks this year but am slightly encouraged by what we saw anyway.
To put Upnorths number in perspective around 2000 Jims Bait shop alone in Barnes would register 1500 deer. Of course that was also an extreme. This year our group of 10 saw around 30 does and 4 glimpses of bucks and shot one nice 3-1/2yr 8 pt. Also found one huge 8pt w/ 4 stickers dead in the woods about 2 weeks old, just the skull and backbone remained. Seems to be more deer than the last two years but were half way back to "normal". Hunted all big woods in 8 sections where parts have been cut continuously for 25yrs so there is food everywhere. The wolf sign is unreal in southern Bayfield. With the full moon, clear nights and snow Thanksgiving and Friday nights I couldn't believe the wolf sign and tracks. Until we can hunt and trap these devils I'm afraid this is the new normal.
I hunt on the border of Sawyer and Washburn. By Stone Lake. My brother shot a rough scored 143 1/8 8pointer opening morning. I saw a spike. Not another hair was seen until Friday second weekend my brother in law saw 4 doe.
I did see more coyote tracks on our trails than I have ever seen before. I took my yote gun out with me Saturday. I am not saying that the coyotes are the only problem. But they are now on my list of things to do instead of ice fishing when I am there.
Friday night before opener we always swing in to the Stone Lake Pub to sign in on the buck board, and talk to a couple local groups to wish them luck. There were 10 people in there, when they used to be Jammed. Less hunters due to the no doe tags. I am ok with that but the bars that count on those nights are hurting. Not saying I want a drunk in the woods. But 100 guys buy 2 beers compared to 10 is a big difference.
When I stopped in again on Saturday night to say my good byes, 2 bucks registered on the board with over 100 hunters on it. Granted I know of two other dandy bucks not on the board. And one that was poached near my land. Actually they crossed mine to shoot the deer on my neighbors.
I have already contacted the widow of the man who had that 10 acres, hopefully I will have that soon. They told my neighbor that the lady told them she had 200 acres. Little different than 10.And one of them set up 40 yards from me opening morning. I saw his light come in at 6 am. I was already settled in. A coyote was standing under me at 6:30. I said if I shoot this coyote, my hunt is now less suprising , and that hunter is going to fall out of his tree.
Just a quick look at numbers as of 11/28/2015 Gun, Archery and Xbow have accounted for 275,427 deer taken so far.
* the Funny thing I noticed is that Archery kills are down by 7852 So far this year. Tag sales are down 6621 from last year
Xbow kills are up by around 2k but tag sales are up 16244
Smokey Posted numbers above that say all of 2014 was 304,289 kills so we are short by 28,862 off last years totals so far anyway.
Lots of hunting left with Smoke pole, Archery and the late Doe season still to go so. I guess we can come up 29K more by January. But for the 9 day gun season we are seeing number similar to that of 1983.
Gun Deer kills
11/28,2015 192327- 606082 tags sold - 43845 less
1983 197600- 649927 tags sold
