Horrible season 4 U2?
New York
Yup...I concur....Mad Dog
Up here is where? Where I am I have had a great season. Saw many large bucks and still seeing them. I also saw a big buck today when I took the dogs for a ride and pulled into one of my fields to check a food plot. He was standing in the middle of it at 4:15 pm. I had the rifle with me but passed. He will be nicer next year. I killed my best NY buck ever this year with the bow and have had several nice ones taken in my area. I hunt units 4B and 4J. The thing that is killing me now in the bow only area, is the property I hunt still has about 35 acres of standing corn. The deer have moved into it and are not moving much during shooting hours. Shawn
Shawn we must be neighbors..I am just south of you in 4S...
This year been slow down down this way, seen mostly dinks since i left Kansas
I live in Selkirk. I have hunted the same property for all my 51 years on this earth. My Dad used to bring me in a pack when I was only a few months old. 4S is that part of Greene County? Shawn
Live in Greenville. Yes 4s is part of Greene county. I also hunt in Albany county as well.
Bad year in 7J, to the south of you pat.. Few nice bucks on trail camera in late summer... Nothing now. Saw just dinks during bow and gun season (so far). I think the winter kill was very bad. Not seeing as many does either.
Josh
I hunt Westchester and Long Island..mostly public land. Westchester has been very poor for me this year and for guys I know, the same. Just very few sightings/sign. Long Island has been better, but not great. It gets frustrating, and If u don't enjoy the grueling and rigorous reality of it, you'd hate it! Ha ha. Always better than work or mowing the lawn. Mad Dog
Every year it gets harder and harder for me to justifi spending any more hunting time in NY. Hunting the Midwest twice a year for last 8 years or so has just ruined the experience of hunting around here. I would travel and seek highest quailuty experencs I can in the time I have.
Same here in my area of the Catskills . After the first week of archery the bucks were gone now the does also once rifle season started. I think all of the baiting going on is not helping either.
We hardly hunt the Rifle season in Catskill anymore. With no doe tags for last 18 yrs and the ridiculous antler restrictions. It's a waste of time. Mad Dog
I find it kind of funny that the guys say now the deer are gone. Well what happened to them. I doubt they were all killed. The deer are still there, they may have changed their patterns but they are still there. The antler restrictions and no doe permits have helped the population down that way. I have friends who hunt those areas and they say they see more deer and a lot better bucks being taken. I agree the hunting is not what it was in a lot of areas but they are there for the taking. Best of Luck! Shawn
This is the first year that I did not get a doe permit because the cut back in my area. Antler restrictions are working by me have seen bigger racks the last 2 years then before.As Pat said as if they vanished, that is from my property they did and this is the firs year that it ever happened. Will have to check and see if the Yote population increased.
Shawn: are we talking hunting private land..or public? M.D.
Shawn: are we talking hunting private land..or public? M.D.
Mostly private but some public. For me all private land. I believe Pat hunts private though as do a lot of guys posting. The deer are still out there is all I am saying, movement the last few days has been mostly mid-day and a bit right before dark. I have hunted everyday this season except when I was on the road. I have had a very good season but I always kill several deer but I also hunt more than most anyone I know. Had a good sit tonight with the rifle and decided to pass a very nice buck again,hoping he makes it another year as he will be a bomber next year. Shawn
I'm a cop and the car deer accidents this year are way down from what they normally are.
Between trail camera pictures and sightings while hunting, the deer numbers in 7J are way down. I think the late snows and record cold took a toll on the deer in many areas. The rut was also stifled by the warm temps which doesn't help things.
Yeah...that's deer hunting..never stays the same and you have to adapt. The more I hunt, the more humble I become. When u start out, u think JUST because u get out there, you should see deer...and bag one! In the beginning I got frustrated...now, I see WHAT I need to do to increase the odds. As I have gotten more serious, the opportunities HAVE improved. Hey, we still have a full month to go..2 on Long Island. Mad Dog
Reports from 100's of hunters, farmers and processors have deer numbers way done in 7J and 7H - decline started 3 years ago. The deer are not just hiding from hunters who somehow forgot how to hunt in the last 3 years. Still a few pockets of higher pops - FEW being the key word.
Last winter did not help but I no doubt believe our biggest reason for populations declining is coyotes. They are taking way to many deer and not just fawns. NY has to get their head out of their asses and let us kill them year round. Shawn
Winter kill, coyotes, declining habitat quality and over allocation of DMPs are all factoring into a known decline in all but surburan units. The idea that we have similar numbers of deer but they some how modified their habits to newly elude us is absurd. Yearly deer harvest estamates show a clear trend of decline until the past couple of seasons. www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerhist.pdf
Totally agree with Trial153. I have hunted more this year than any other in the southern tier, northern zone and in PA. I agree with the observations above particularly for the norhtern zone: lack of nutrition in Adk's combined with 2 harsh winters in a row, an increase in predation including bears and bobcats as well as coyotes.
Mike
7j and 7h have been disastrously vacant of deer for everyone that I know that hunts them. YRMV of course...
Read the original post. It says "Saw lots of deer late summer and early bow than they vanished"!! That is what I am commenting on, if the deer where there, they still have to be somewhere. NOT the lack of deer in certain areas. Again read the original post! Shawn
Its generally a know fact the early oct deer start shifting to different feed pattern in advance for the up coming winter. Hunters have been keying into this and hunting those patterns in NY...since well... since we been hunting. The deer's range hasn't changed and there are only so many places a person can hunt on a given property. there for in very general terms lack of sighting and deer sign is a pretty good indication of current population. why is that? because your comparing your sighting during hunting in the areas you hunt to previous experiences in the past in the same areas...not based on say seeing deer in a field in say September.
It easy to use our own sighting and hunting success or lack there of as a gauge for population estimates. what we need to remember is that this is only accurate on micro scale. However when transcribe the same conclusions from various sources through a larger portion of the state we can generally make a more accurate assessment on the macro level.
It would be interesting if NY gathered a mean satisfaction rating for units similar to other states. South Dakota is great example.
7M DeRuyter, not a great year. Less than 30 pics on 7 cameras, most taken at night thru November. Mostly small bucks working the scrapes, only saw a few doe, lots of coyote sightings. Do I think some places hold more deer than others? Hell yeah, I have corn, apples, oaks all over the property. Maybe because of last winter, predators, who knows. Just not as many deer in recent years.
Trail153: Precisely. Well stated.
'man 406, Yeah, we all read your post and know what you said. but when you post on a forum that generates a discussion… so… " saw lots of deer early…" may not immediately mean that the #'s are "normal". You can have a very high concentration of deer in an area during a certain period, but it may only be that: a concentration for a period..for whatever obscure or serious reason the deer have.
Late winter yarding is just (JUST !!!!) an example. you get my drift I hope.
Sure, they are "there". Just spread out over many more square miles at this time..
Why are the "not there" now? Well in my area (I've hunted here 35 years) over the past 4-5 years the new local mega-farmer has his workers whacking at least 30 every summer, orphaning their fawns. He has said to me that that is their "entertainment", and laughs when he refers to our depleted area as "the orphanage". Well, that has a little impact.
Now, I have seen on occasion, late summer early bow, fair (historically lousy) numbers. But things change every year not long after early bow. I think (can't prove it) they just spread out.
Also Pat said where have all the bucks gone. I for one can say right now they are traveling far and wide looking for any leftover does. I saw a buck near my house yesterday that I am sure I saw in my bow only area just a few days ago. It is 2 miles as the crow flies. My point is, that if there were deer around in any numbers or bucks for that matter that they still have to be somewhere, maybe coyote food, in someones freezer or just in hiding. Shawn
Well I have property in 6C and also hunt in 6H. Last winter decimated the herd. The DEC guy I talked to said about 80% winter kill from last year. Auto body shops aren't seeing near the amount of deer/car collisions. The processors aren't nearly as busy as they usually are either, down about 40% from last year. I have hunted my property pretty hard and have only seen 2 deer since the season opened, a doe and a spike. I have several game camera pictures of a couple decent bucks, but my neighboring property owners have been hunting hard and the bucks went into survival and evasion mode. They only show up at 2:00 AM in my food plots. This season has been dismal, not only here, but also out in Ohio. Where I hunted, there was no mast crop, so the deer were in the clear cuts and not in the woods. I just couldn't catch a break. Scheesh...
Way to long of gun season in NY. We should have 2 three day seasons. I know winter was bad but we may of had 20% die-off in my gun area. The bow only area I hunt had standing corn because it got too wet to get in to harvest. I believe every deer for 4 or 5 miles was in feeding in these fields by mid-january. Stop shooting big does if you are having low numbers of deer in your areas. Shawn
About an hour South of you Pat...7M. Hundreds of man hours b/w my boys and friends and we've seen very few quality deer. Butcher is def. down deer #'s. I do Euro Mounts on the side and I would say 98% of my customers continue hunting for another buck (illegally) despite bringing me one to do...that's based on 50-60 heads a year x last 5 years. Killing one and tagging it and being done simply does not exist for the most part......hard to let a 90" 2 yo walk when that is the norm around you. Not surprised your hunting was tuff.. I normally do about 50 heads by now...only up to 35. 1 4yo. Maybe 4 were 3yo, 5 were 2yo and all the rest 18mo bucks....Yes, they need to shorten the gun season and when guys "tag out" they need to be done
8T worst season in 15yrs. The numbers are way down. Between Jacking unlimited crop damage permits and predators i'm surprised if there is a deer left alive. We have private land and had 10 trail cams out for 5 months. Results were one 2.5 to 3.5 yr old 8pt. Other than that a few spikes and 3 and 4pointers. And half a dozen does.
It obviously has a lot to do with what part of the state you are from!! Our herd is on the up swing the last few years where I hunt. I think it is because a lot of people in our area have allowed a guy called the coyote whisperer get on to our properties and kill the coyotes. He has put a huge dent in their numbers and the fact we leave some standing corn and this year beans plus all the other food plots this helps the deer winter well. I have one buck tag left and will only fill it on a buck 3.5 years or older. We still have several running around our properties. Shawn
Ditto on gun season being too long and ditto on guys shooting multiple bucks... I hate that! A dink walks by they hammer it, then later in the season they see a bigger buck and they hammer that too.
I shot an 80" 8 point in 2011 and watched a 110" 8 chase a doe around my tree a week later. As hard as it was I let him walk being I had happily filled my tag the week before.
I don't mind the two buck thing. I usually shoot one in my bow only area and one in my other area. I actually like the two buck rule as I would hate to quit hunting so early. I think the problem in certain areas is all the doe permits and guys figuring, "well if I got a doe permit I mind as well fill it". Than they complain about seeing very few deer in following years. Shawn
Two buck tags are probably the biggest single regulation holding back new york's deer herd from reaching a semi quality status. Second buck kills may conservatively account for about 8-12% of the totals buck take in NY right now. While I can't compile data for what percentage of first bucks are yearlings to would venture to say it's high...with " putting one buck in freezer and waiting for a big one"
IMO, besides the regular season being about 5 weeks too long, and then being able to use a ML during the late season being a problem, I think this state needs to go to a one buck rule. You can kill one buck per year, regardless of implement. If the state adopted that rule, hunters would have to decide it the buck that was in front of them was what they wanted to shoot for the year or if they wanted to wait for something bigger. This would cause hunters to THINK before they dropped the hammer, or string on an animal, instead of the scariest phrase heard up here.... Once the shooting stops, "hey, let's go see what we shot". Also, like I said before, 7 weeks of gun season, right during the rut, and being able to sign over tags to another person is just plain wrong..... IMO Jay
Trial, I shoot nothing but 3.5 year olds and very seldom 2 off the same property unless they are exceptional bucks. Guys are complaining about seeing quantity or amounts of deer. That too me does not equate to killing one buck or two, but too shooting too many does or predation and hard winters. Shawn
Well Shawn you must be exceptional shooting only 3.5 year old deer in 4b with less then 3 bucks being killed per square mile and in 4j with less than 2 bucks killed per square mile.... Considering that 70 % of the buck take in those units are comprised of bucks 2.5 or younger. Actually it's even worse then 70% it's closer to 80 %, as AR units Skew the avg. Beating those odds yearly we will have to just figure you out of the equation.
I think where ever you get your numbers you are nuts. I know of 7 nice bucks taken in one area and all less than 1 mile from each other. That is one of the problems, people not reporting what they kill. I know just on the 137 acres I hunt, two 3.5 or older bucks were taken and than two more on the property that borders that to the NE and another one taken on the property that borders it on the SW. Also in 4B I know of several bucks over 3.5 years old all taken with a mile or two of my house. Where I am hunting ecsp. in 4J we(meaning the guys hunting close to my property or on it)pretty much all abide by shooting a minimum of 2.5 year olds and most try and shoot 3.5 year old deer or older. Sorry but this is a fact and if you are getting those numbers from DEC than that is your biggest problem. They do a lousy job at most anything they attempt. Shawn
Like I said Shawn your an anomaly, every post proves it.
How can you say that? I did not see anyone else post about 4J or 4B. A lot of places in these units still have good agriculture crops and the bow only area has a group(bowhunters) that normally strives to harvest more mature bucks and also due to a success rate that is lower than gun hunters, naturally allows more bucks to reach an older age class. I have pics. of several bucks taken this year at least 3.5 years old within a mile of each other in the bow area. Shawn
Maybe being that you hunt in a bow only area and see significantly less sustained snow depth than further West where most of us are talking about..... It's just not comparable.
From trail cam pics and sightings, deer numbers in my area of the state (Utica and surrounding areas) I can confidently say are down by at least a third.
I also remember a post from a spring where a guy near Cortland found over a hundred winter kills. That's not far from me. And where Pat is hunting the snow gets much deeper but this past winter was much colder than normal also.
Shawn, you're lucky to have a healthy herd still as just a couple years ago I'd see several different bucks per sit during the rut. Last year and this year things were much different in 7J as SteveBNY and others stated. Not nothing to do with what set-up were sitting. Hopefully this winter is mild and things rebound some!
Shoot straight >>>>---------------->
Fortunately I have access in both 4b (Feura bush) and 4j, Delmar and voorheesville), and have for several years....but like I said, your must be an anomaly.
No James than you are the anomaly. As I know Feura Bush area very well and plenty of deer sightings there as well as many deer killes there and Delmar is absolutely over run with deer. I work for the town of bethlehem. So many deer in fact the town has started its own deer committee to try and come up solutions to control them. If you cannot kill a good buck every few years around Delmar you have no clue what your doing or do not have access to any decent properties. I have hunted 4B since before it was 4B and quite a few deer in most areas of 4B as well. Sorry James but I can honestly say I do not think you have a clue. No offense just I have hunted 4J since 92 and other than a strecth several years ago deer numbers and big buck numbers are as good or better than they have ever been. Shawn
Shawn your the person saying you only kill 3.5 year old bucks or better in these two units, and you do it yearly ... Wait or is two a year? I could have said I think your mostly full of shit. However instead I said your an anomaly to be nice.
Unlike yourself I make no comment on what I kill or don't kill, I don't post pictures or bump my treads ....I am not the one making 4 J out to Kansas or Ohio ect. I keep my spots and my kills mostly to myself for my own reasons. I don't share your opinion of the quality hunting in either unit, and i am not sure why you seem to feel that is a reflection on yourself. Insecure? Little hint, it's it's not about you...believe it or not nobody on here really cares about you. It's a discussion, not a referendum on your opinions.
Oh, by the way. Right on RTe. 32 just out side of Feura bush before you get to Lagranges. My wife and I counted 31 deer in the filed where the power lines cross the road this August and several of them were nice bucks. This would be on the back side of Stantons and the Dowd farms. Shawn
No buddy never been insecure, I just know I have been hunting for over 40 years in generally the same area. Not just 7 as you state you have in these areas and I also know a ton of hunters who hunt these areas that would argue the point with you. Yes I normally shoot a buck from each area and I have not always shot 3.5 year olds or older until the last few years. As a matter of fact I have killed over 60 bucks that were less than 2.5 years old. I hunted this area at a time when the area I hunt in 4B did not open a gun season until 1984. Back than you could get a doe permit and it was good for either a buck or a doe. I hunted at a time that you could legally kill 5 bucks a year and in some years more than that. Also you are wrong, I know a lot of folks on here that care about me and I care a lot about them as well. So that statement is a bunch of crap. I agree about it being a discussion and I am discussing what I know happens in the areas I hunt. I am sorry you have crappy deer numbers according to you where you hunt, but as I said I know hundreds of people who live in 4B and 4J that hunt and most would tell you the same thing I am. Now go out and hunt hard and maybe you will have some luck. Just one question, How much do you actually get out and hunt, how many hours have you spent on stand in 4J and 4B this season so far? Shawn
That maybe a record number of I 's for a single post. Impressive even for you.
This has probably been the worst season(as far as deer movement)that I have experienced in 17 years. Between about 15 sits in the bow season, I saw two deer. It was unreal. However, we have been seeing deer movement through the gun season. I believe the deer were on an adjacent property, feeding on a preferred food source. Staying hopeful though!
Yup and guess what "I" could care less. You just do not have a clue and that is obvious. Have Fun! Shawn
Shawn you hunt meads road not Iowa ...get over yourself it's tiring.
Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program:
I did 5 hr this afternoon (7J) and my neighbor did 3 (7H): zero again. not a hair.
Anyway, beautiful day, its good to be alive... and I'm almost ready to just go back to my favorite: Squirrel hunting!!!
Back to the original question.
I agree that the deer numbers are down quite a bit. The area of 6k that I hunt has been slower than last year but no where near my worst year. We were lucky to have a bumper crop of acorns here last fall and that carried the deer pretty good. There are also some decent hemlock swamps that they winter in and that helps.
That being said I see very few deer along the roads here and almost zero road kill. Also I bet I heard less than half of the rifle shots that I normally hear.
I also hunt 4F and we also got lucky there with a bumper crop of acorns last fall. Deer numbers were still down but not terrible.
My guess is that deer harvest numbers will be down at least 10% this year.
Omg! Enough about how old and how it scores. Just hunt, that's why we are all here!
I feel a lil sorry for people who don't want to hunt because they measure the experience with a metric......mature bucks seen, deer sighted,the "quality rating" of their state. If you like to hunt, you hunt, why do you have to "grade" the hunt or diminish the value of the experience.....flip.....it beats working.
Well I am going to go out and sit in the woods with my bow, watch squirrels and birds, pray and get closer to nature this afternoon. I may even bring my bow. It is just hard to call it hunting when you can just about guarantee that no huntable animal will show up. When a hunter can go in to the woods,, and I consider myself a decent hunter,, over 30 times in this state, and out of all of those outings, only see 3 deer in total, there is an issue.. There is an issue and it isn't really hunting, it's just sort of communing with nature.... Which is nice, but it ain't hunting. It actually makes a lot of people wonder whether they are going to buy a hunting license next year. I know several people who I work with who didn't buy one for this year. The only reason I am doing to buy one is because of the turkey hunting that I have on my property,,, and another big consideration,, my license is free because I am a disabled veteran. If I had to buy a license for the full cost, I would just buy a fishing one, and spend all my time in Ohio hunting.. I work with a lot of soldiers and they are telling me that they were going to buy new archery gear and other equipment, but they can't justify the cost of it, just to sit in the woods and count Chickadees. Based on that, the local hunting economy is going to take a hit because of the lack of new management regulations by the DEC as well. I keep hearing people squawking about needing to get more hunters in the woods so our sport won't die.. Tell me, really, really.... How many kids are going to want to take up a sport where they sit on their asses in the woods, cold and alone, when they could be in their warm houses with a nice big tuna fish sandwich, saving the world in battle on their Play Stations and X-boxes?? Just a ramble and a rant. Be well all. Don't let the squirrels attack you out there. Peace, Jay
Bowshot, I myself prefer bunny hunting with my recurve!! Trial and you obviously don't put in much time as there are tons of deer in 4J, so I do not know why you are not seeing any. If you know the area, have you taken a ride over Meads and Waldemaier and say Van Dyke on a late August afternoon? Just curious as me and my buddy have seen as many as 60 plus deer on those 3 roads this past August. Not being a jerk, just asking. Shawn
Howdy deer man'
I'm 7H, 7J, not 4J. Yes, I do hunt a lot. 'little less this year, I'm back in college finishing a degree. Hate it, lol!!
Nope, I don't take that as you being a jerk!
Just got back from a morning hunt: Zero deer in sight, one shot from the rifle guys all morning… yikes!
Jay', heading out myself! Likely won't see a deer, but I gotta get out every chance I get, they are few lately.
Well I went out this afternoon. I saw one buck, couldn't see how big, just that his neck was really thick and he had a big body. Maybe tomorrow I can get in there tomorrow and see him again, just a little closer in.
Zero again. But wow, I know where to go for my tree rats, lol!!!
I hunted tonight for only an hour, albeit gun hunting in 4B. I saw 11 deer and unless one was a button not a buck to be had. I sat til it was real dark just to see if a buck would show. Going bow hunting in the morning and see how I do. If I get the right wind, I hoping to shoot something. Shawn
I hunt 7m, mostly Madison Co! Its nice to hear the stories from other places. The suburbs have the advantage no doubt! You might have good luck around Albany but, try venturing around cny and give it a shot. You wont be so excited.
Passed a very nice 6pt. and saw 5 does this am. The fog here was terrble. By 8:30 you could not see 30 yards. Shawn
I've been hunting 7J for quite a few years and my hunting has been going gradually downhill over time with a big drop last year and worse this year. This under current on here by some that there are plenty deer and if you're either not seeing plenty of deer or are not holding out for a 3.5 yr old (or two) then you're just a poor Hunter is bull$hit.
One thing I know for sure. There are HUGE disparities in the deer herd from one DMU to another and I think this is absolutely true of the deer numbers within a given DMU as well. My thought is that some of the factors are land use, private versus public land, the size of the privately owned parcels, Hunter density, Hunter pressure (different in my opinion), the number of parcels posted with no hunting, I.e. sanctuary effect, picky hunters versus "brown is down" types. I honestly don't know how the DEC can manage all of that. I think this all adds up to a "feast or famine" scenario, depending on where you're sitting.
I can say that my little piece of 7J stunk this year. Yes, warm, windy weather and a rut (visible part of the rutting) which from my perspective weak, and took place from around Halloween through mid-November. What really makes me wonder is both last year and this year the overall lack of shooting. Yes, some shooting opening day of shotgun until maybe 9:30...then almost nothing beyond that. Literally, no shooting the second day (Sunday) and almost literally no shots the following weekend and none during the week. I can hear many square miles of 7J from where I am. Got a neighbor who is out all the time in 7H and he relates the same thing. With almost no shooting over a wide area. Makes you wonder when the DEC kill numbers come out....wow, how did they do that? Your guess is as good as mine.
I'm feeling like I'll have to srptart seeking a new area where the formula of factors mentioned above work more in my favor.
They can't control the herd. No way. Not enough biologists to work in the field, hunters not reporting, farmers SUPER abusing permits, "hunters" abusing theirs (taking all they want…who's gonna catch 'em?), some DEC still think coyotes don't kill deer, on and on and on…
Heck, we have all the dogs and cats in the state registered and we can't control them, lol!!!
Bowshot, with all the factors you stated one would think that the DEC would look to simplify and streamline regulations and seasons.
In order of importance.
1) A shortened state wide regular season. start it the first Saturday after thanksgiving and run for 9 days that will include two full weekends. A shorter condensed season gets hunters in the woods and creates a sense of urgency to hunt. Our obscenely long regular season allows guys to continually put hunting off. I know this seems strange to guys like us on here that live and breath deer hunting but for the avg hunter this just isnt the case. States with condensed seasons in the midwest have no issue harvesting similar numbers of whitetails compared to NY in 1/3 the number of days in their regular season.
2) One buck tag that can be used in any season. This is huge. upwards of 8-10% of our buck harvest comes from hunters filling a second buck tag. With buck take objectives below target in many DMU's this is just idiotic to continue to allow two buck harvest per hunter. This would create more carry over then any antler restrictions would.
3) Condensed DMU and DMP's. Our DMU system is over complicated for an underfunded and understaffed DEC. Condensing DMU's is obvious solution. DMP should still be by lottery however they need to be returned to being non transferable. This was huge mistake buy the DEC. Having transferable tags leads to guys putting in for tags in units that they have no intention of hunting only to take possession of the tag with the hopes swamping or using it in another area. Sell doe tags in under subscribed areas until the allocation is gone...over the counter. In over subscribe area keep the current lottery system in place.
4) A state wide 4 or 5 day muzzle loader season mid December. This season becomes meaningful because of the shortened regular season. it takes on its own season rather then just an extension of the regular season.
5) Do away with over special season tags!!! Your Antlerless tags are antlers tags...period!! use them in any open season. Your buck tag is your buck tag to be used in any open season...
6) Open the coyote season year round as there is no reason to close it.
If people only had one buck tag they might be less apt to blast the first dink that walks bye if they want to kill a nice buck. They might instead shoot a doe and hold onto their buck tag. This might help some bucks to make it to the following year and be bigger.
I agree, 7J is going downhill and they give out DMP's like candy. 100% first choice and you can get a second tag sometimes as well.
It would be awesome if they'd shorten the gun season.
7J was actually high probability for 1st and 2nd and everyone I know who asked got 2 more in the second offering.
You're right....like candy. strange, 2 DMPs is automatic in 7J but I can't justify killing one of the few does I see. Maybe we should all have acquired the two tags and all report them as filled. Do that for a few years maybe they'd take their foot off the gas on doe harvest. More likely they'd think there were still too many and start issuing 3 per Hunter.
I'm on board with the idea of going back to one buck limit and a shortened gun season.
I will say this, the one buck limit is not gonna help much with deer numbers. Getting a year round season on coyotes will help and less doe permits also. I 100% agree a 9 or 10 day gun season would be more than enough. I myself like being able to take two bucks as I like to be able to bow hunt a lot. I like the fact I can shoot a good buck in my bow only area and still be able to hunt for another good buck in my other areas. Shawn
I would love to see NYS go to a 1 week shotgun/rifle season and just start it the Saturday before Thanksgiving so guys could take a couple days vacation and still get almost a week in the woods. Make the remainder of the season ML & Bow. I'm also in favor of the 1 buck rule throughout all seasons and just 2 does no matter how much land you have or if your a farmer. Oh and I already consider coyote season open all year long....
Shortening gun season won't have a large impact - be similar kill totals just in a more condensed time. And if really nasty weather shut down part of this 2 weeks or less many want to "allow", then the backlash against bowhunters who just had 6 to 7 weeks of prime weather will be huge.
Also see few hunters - even the loudest complainers - who target and hunt coyotes hard in the season we now have. Everyone takes a target of opportunity, but few go out after. How about those wanting more killed step up and take advantage of the open season now. Then have a better case for expanding it further.
Moneybags, if you are worried about numbers, why the two does? Face it guys, having more does is the key. Just as the rooster in the hen house, don't need a whole lot of bucks to get the job done. We need to stop shooting the does. Some guys made comments about me, when I said I do not shoot adult does, only doe fawns. Well guess who is not complaining about deer numbers. Stop shooting does in general if you want to see more deer in your area and kill all the animals that prey on the fawns. Shawn
One of the biggest factors that is affecting the deer herd that nobody has mentioned is depredation. Here in NY we have a buttload of bears, and no Spring season. A guy who owns a bow shop that is near me was talking to a customer who found a bear den and put a game camera in front of it. He has photos of the sow bringing 31 fawns in to feed her cubs. Bears and coyotes are a HUGE factor in why we don't have deer, then the stupidly long season for guns, the ability to kill multiple bucks, crop damage permits, DMPs in low density areas, and the locals who have no discipline as to what they shoot. IMO, this area is screwed. I just thank God that I am in on a good lease in Ohio. If I didn't get a free license for being a disabled vet, I probably wouldn't waste my money on one... By the way, went out Saturday, saw 2 red squirrels, 3 chickadees, a tufted titmouse and a crow.. I hate this state.
Jay I would argue the multiple buck limit as a reason the deer herd is low in some areas. I am sorry but I almost always kill two bucks and it has little effect on deer numbers. The bears, coyotes, bobcats, yes they have a huge impact. Also shooting multiple does or mature does is what is not helping at all. Shawn
We don't need a multiple buck limit, that's just stupid. Go back to the old days when you got to shoot only one per season. The same with does, bring back the party permits. The suburbs have tons of deer but, people don't want them killed. Prime example is Ithaca near me. They don't want hunting but they are over run with deer that are getting "Domesticated"! Sure you can kill some slammer bucks in the shopping mall parking lot. There's a reason why the deer move.
I would like to see if I am in the minority. I would really hate to have a one buck limit. I like to hunt, I like to kill deer. I would like to see an antler restriction statewide though. I don't like to shoot big does(only doe fawns). It would about kill me too shoot, say a good buck on a feeding pattern in early Oct. and not be able to hunt again. If we are talking about deer numbers, someone explain how the two buck rule hurts the numbers. My reasoning for the antler restriction is that it would allow bucks to reach an older age class, thus making them harder to kill also. I would rather kill 3 bucks a year than shoot a few big does. Guys want numbers the way this thread sounds. If so, eliminate doe permits in the areas where deer numbers are down for a few years. Greenman40, explain why the 2 buck limit is stupid and please do not use the mid-west as an example. I have hunted Ohio, Indiana, Kansas and Illinois the last few years and where I hunted in those states, deer numbers were not an issue. Shawn
Buck to doe ratio. Have you seen bucks running in groups during the season? No, you see groups of doe's together. If you keep shooting fawns then how is that good for the herd when the older doe's be come sterile or die off? I've hunted the Midwest, starting in the late 80's. It all depends on the area and what's attractive to that species.
The season started out very promising for me. Had some great trail cam pics and saw one of the biggest bucks I have ever seen twice on private property. didnt fill a tag yet but still hopeful. This was on the Island.
For one older does rarely if ever become sterile. They have been known to breed and produce twin fawns into their twenties. By killing doe fawns I am only killing that deer as she may or may not be bred as to where an older doe will be bred and have 1 or 2 fawns. Buck to doe ratio you want it fairly close like 3 to 1. This produces a good consistent rut instead of spread out over weeks and weeks. To get to that 3 to 1 in my area we would have to kill 6 or 8 does to every buck to reach that. That is why I want antler restrictions as a way to help the bucks get some age on them thus making them harder to kill and increases the age structure. Shawn
Way to many fish stories.
Been trying to get out at least once a week for the entire season at different locations and its been tough on Long Island..Not a lot of does and maybe a spike or two..Usually see a bunch on the sides of the highway on the way out each morning , but not this year.It's not over yet i guess..Good luck to all still hunting and Happy Holidays
Same here, Hammer. Hit Westchester hard Oct and Nov. Trying the Island till I nail one. Saw a few. No clear shots. I think the heavy mast crop and warm weather aint helped none...neither....Everyone I know has had a non productive season so far. The exception is an older buddy of mine who got one in Westchester and one on The Island. He's retired and puts in 10 hour days in stand. Hopefully the temp drop should improve the action. Hunt em hard! Good luck.Mad Dog
Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah to all the bow hunters here. Mad Dog
Likewise, 'Dog, thank you!
Took a load of boned-out venison in to a processor today for making into sausage. Asked them what they've been seeing this season as its about done. They said they'd been seeing half or less of their typical amount of business. That about what I've heard from other sources as well.
My concern is that the DEC will see the low reported kill in many areas, assume it was all weather related, incompetent hunters or whatever, apply their algorithms and jack up the targeted take for next year to make up for the "under harvest" of this season.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Scientific herd management: Ignore the voices of the thousands that put their time in making the real-life observations, and use a computer model.
Try to sell me on global climate change.
