6 dead dear found
Wisconsin
Well, my biggest fear with x-guns came true, lost deer. I found one, the neighbor's gun crew found the others. All having 2" long Two blade cuts. I was after a big ten in the same area that the neighbor was gun hunting. This is a fairly small section of County land East of Eau Claire. I don't gun hunt there, and found one dead fork horn during the archery hunt. The neighbor talked to one of the guys that was hunting in there during the archery season, and the guy stated that he had wounded a big ten and did not find it. Add that one, and there were 7 in a small area where stupid shots were made by a short range weapon, by someone who thinks they have a long range weapon. This really burns me, wish they would have never let all want to be archers use these things, it should have been left the way it was. Do any of you think it would do anything to bring this to the DNR? I wondered why my deer sightings dropped so dramatically within a week in this area. Makes me sick.
At the risk of sounding like a smart ass, what do you think would happen if you called. Seriously?
I was also wondering why you believe or could prove this was done exclusively by crossbow hunters?
I agree its very discouraging and frustrating but I would assume they would ask you those questions and what would have to say?
What outcome would you believe would come from a phone call or a written letter?
Bottom line Live2hunt - not much will happen.
Even if you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all the shots were crossbows they wont change what's already here - no un-ringing the bell - isn't going to happen!
How do you believe this was all crossbow related?
This is a two year study correct? And, just going by the guy the neighbor talked to, and the type of holes in the animals that are concurrent with a x-gun bolt.
I may be in LE but I don't think anyone can distinguish a hole made from an arrow versus a "bolt" with the same head -
What I am saying, if I shoot a doe with a arrow tipped with a 100 grain Rage 2 blade and another doe with a bolt with the same head - how could anyone with any degree of certainty distinguish which weapon killed which animal?
And yes, this is a two year "study", but I think we all know how that will turn out.
Without exclusive proof that beyond a doubt this was crossbow exclusive - I guess I would be hard pressed to make that call or write that letter
Good Luck!
Live, if your right, there will surely be some Bolts laying around.
While I will usually take any chance to bash the crossbow. I just can't in this instance, there just isn't enough proof. Like BT said, pretty darn hard to tell the difference in a wound from a bolt tipped with a Rage from an arrow tipped with one. However, as was said, there should be some bolts or arrows around.
Well, there would not be a bolt where the dead deer would be, I would have to find there stands. It's just so Fn upsetting to see this and know/wonder how much of this is happening around the state. This is a small area that there are 6 maybe 7 deer wasted, It just pisses me off and 99% positive all were shot with a x-gun.
Good thing no deer are ever lost to compound or recurve shooters either right? I have a friend that had like a 10 deer streak of not recovering deer that he shot with a compound, do you think we should have outlawed compounds because of his bad shooting?
Blame the idiot shooting the weapon without caring about wether it is a killing shot or not. Do you also blame the gun when a person get s shot?
" how much of this is happening around the state. This is a small area that there are 6 maybe 7 deer wasted," So are you implying that your experience should be extrapolated statewide 60-70,000 crossbow killed deer unrecovered ? Ya make the call to DNR 1-888-936-7463 Your testimony will shocked them to there senses!
Hard to make the difference between a bolt from a crossbow and from a compound or recurve. You must be in the minority cause in our area we have 0% deer lost to both crossbow or compounds. Between our land and 2 neighbors the acres is over 1000 acres and 4 deer have been taken (1 crossbow and 3 compound) 0 deer were lost or not recovered. Go ahead and call the DNR and their reply will shock you. Did you take photos, did you measure the entry and exit wound. Did you determine the type of broadhead, did you measure the distance of the shot, etc,etc,etc and so forth. The DNR will just brush you off.
As others have said the DNR will ignore this. The place to go with this information, theory, whatever you call it is your legislators. Sure they may ignore it too but some will not. Also the public forum that the DNR holds in each county, can't think of what they are called right now.
Thanks for a decent answer Jeff, that is the info I was leaning to, just to bring it to some ones attention.
It wasn't totally based on the wound on the deer, it was also a discussion with one of the group.
My "assumption" is that they saw the animals out of decent range for an arrow or a bolt and took the shots thinking they were good out to 60,70,80,? yards.
6 found dead deer in a small section of county forest is a lot, never heard of that many found like that.
Live2, are you talking about some of them small areas along 10 near Osceo? Just curious because a few years ago I found 3 dead deer while still hunting some of them parcels during bow season. I wonder if this isn't more of a thrill kill type deal where the shooter just wants to kill something and isn't all that concerned about recovery. The deer I found were two doe fawns and a spike. My first impression when I found them was that the person was shooting everything that walked past with only the intention of tagging a nice buck if they got it.
although I love the recurve, there are a lot of persons who use the stick, that have no business trying to kill a deer with one, ,,,,,,,,,,,
like said before, its the idiot behind the weapon....
Sorry, I cannot buy into either. I understand your dislike for the weapon. But regardless of the weapon used will always be bad shots. For what ever those reasons may be, and plenty of them. There will always be some not recovered. How many will not be recovered during this 9 day gun season. How many more during the muzzle loader season. Of course how many during the other archery season. Surely not going to right letters on all these seasons.
Once the box has been opened. There is no closing of it. Time, and energy would be much better spent in education to the proper use of weapons chosen. To do otherwise may only cause the whole castle to crumble. As the same arguments made can surely be made elsewhere.
I can surely see it. Dont be blind to it!
I know of two wounded bucks shot by bow hunters in our area. Should I call the DNR to complain about bows too?
"The place to go with this information, theory, whatever you call it is your legislators."
That is exactly correct. No, your one complaint will not do a thing but multiple ones may, if there are enough of these types of instances that occur. The crossbow season was set to mirror the regular archery season for the first two years, after which, it could be adjusted if warranted. The only thing that might persuade the department to revisit the season structure will be from an outcry from hunters.
Crusader Dad, no, Its a small section south side of big falls.
CaptMike, That is the direction that I wanted to go, thank you.
Others, you make me laugh. I see a wrong in something that does not belong with the bow season for everybody. They are not a long range weapon, but unfortunately some are and will treat it as one and these deer in a small section I believe prove it Finding a dead deer in an area? I can throw out, finding 6 and hearing about another in the same area? B.S.
I don't want to pile on but how can you assume these shots were taken at 60,70, or 80 yards? Bad shots happen at 15 yards as well, it's bowhunting and not everything goes as planned.
We may not like or want crossbows in the state for all, but there are way too many assumptions in this post for you to have any credibility. Put emotion aside and look at where you are assuming.
When I lived by Tomah there was a young gent that used a xbow due to his disabilities, he wounded 7 deer in one season and there was enough peer pressure that came down to remove the weapon from him for hunting deer. Infact, a close friend that hunts the Ft. there found 3 deer dead by bolts in his honey hole several seasons ago, first time in about 30 yrs he said he found this on the Ft. The xbow has put the gun mentality in the bow seasons, shoulder stock, scope, trigger, then what is it; just throw it in the muzzle season. As far as I am concern,since the recurve/longbow has gone to a minority group it should have its special season the first 3wks before the gun season and keep the compound and xbow lumped together and that is being Fair as Obammie would call it. Enjoy your hunt.
Six dead deer were easily found in a small area, when it's often hard to find even one wounded deer with intense tracking and grid searches? Agree with others that it could be bow or crossbow, but odd that so many are in any one area unless someone was sick enough to do it as a thrill kill.
If they were shot with Rage heads, I doubt they were shot with a recurve. Not sure if they would have enough energy to get enough penetration, some say compounds don't always get very good penetration with them.
There were 8 deer in our little area of Waupaca County that were shot by bows, some were found dead, a neighbor saw 2 with arrows stuck in them and some were shot and found the arrows heads in them. Not sure where they all came from, but nobody that hunts our lands hit any this year.
So you are agreeing with most competant respectful crossbow hunters in the state, crossbows aren't a long range weapon. You are bringing to light that some people will push the limit regardless of weapon choice. I feel sorry for the people that are letting the addition of crossbows festering in their mind and consuming them.
I wonder if someone should blame the lighted nock. Boy they make your arrows a lot easier to find. Enough so as to be able to find them 50, 60, .. 100 yards from the tree. Take a shot, then walk to the light. If there is good enough sign too keep you looking for a deer otherwise head back to the house for a beer.
Of course the lighted know also helps the competent archer who makes a shot and can quickly find an arrow, asses the shot, and back out or blood trail based on the evidence.
So which outweighs the other in general, the bad or good points of lighted nocks. With several hundred archers, you need to look at the totals, not some specific case or made up scenario.
Should we outlaw automobiles because some drive drunk? Should we outlaw screaming "fire" in a crowded theater, because someone may get hurt in the frenzied evacuation?
Live, I still think there must be an arrow or bolt left behind with that much activity. That would be good evidence & possible prints
Rage heads don't work in a crossbow,I know, they just don't fly well. Now if someone doesn't practice with them and only use field points that can happen.
live2hunt, You really make me shake my head with your "based on assumptions - guilty until proven innocent attitude".
I find it to be very impressive that people can look at the hole in a deer and determine what kind of bow (trad, compound, xbow) was used along with the type of broadhead too.
This is Live2hunt, not mrj600. I'm on my work Comp.
oldhunter, happy, The guy in the group that was back there the neighbor talked to that hit the big 10 stated that he hit it with a crossbow. No assumptions, just facts. FYI, none of this is pointed at anyone who has to use a x-bow because of age or disabilities. This is just a prove of point that they do not belong in use by all, and especially not to be part of the archery season in length. Hopefully they shorten it way up.
mrj600. Gotta agree. If the crossthings are short range weapons that fit into the archery season why do they need scopes?
Live2hunt, I wasn't doubting you that it was crossbows. I was just looking at it like the DNR probably would. I have a handicapped buddy that hunts with a crossbow. Any shot he takes that isn't out of a stand you can pretty much figure on never finding the bolt. So if the "hunter" in your area hunted from the ground at all, there are probably some bolts laying around. Finding them would be more by chance than anything though.
I guess if I find a wrong in something that is wrong in the first place, I would like to jump on the opportunity to try and stop it. Back when the compounds came on the scene, there was a lot of griping. But in talking to someone at a local archery shop back then what made total sense, that the loss of wounded game will be reduced, and it did. To me, this crossgun thing just reversed this. If nobody say's anything, nothing will happen.
6 dead deer in a small area is a shitty situation no matter the weapon but I am inclined to think this is a thrill kill and not just lost game.
Razorhead,not sure what the recurve comment has to do with this thread.I hunt with one from the ground and have been very successful. Most people in the woods with a license to kill are far too lazy to be proficient enough to make clean kills on the game they seek with any weapon.
One thing is for sure, no matter what the weapon is. Too many people just don't have the skills (mental, physical, discipline, patients, experience, ...) to make clean kills nearly every time. Heck, isn't that what the armed forces teach?
I think the more effective the weapon (gun vrs better gun, gun vrs bow, bow vrs better bow) then the person with the perceived more effective weapon is more likely to take marginal shot opportunities.
Some of this could be what is going on here. Maybe gun hunters that never bow hunted before and now have this new xbow in their hands and need to learn new skills. But my bet would be thrill killing in this situation.
