I have never taken a public resource from anyone, I have however shot my share of deer along with my kids and some friends.
I assume you have shot some of our public deer too.
I also assume this is another haves VS have not's thread again.
Started when I bought my land.
Don't need your permission.
Any other questions?
I think the gripe is about the landowners who are poor stewards of the land (lots of them). I feel as a land owner some responsibility to share with others and I never describe a deer as "mine". I do take offence to being thrown into that mix.
Not all have the "mine" mentality, but some do.
Lets not forget this is the guy who likes to start a hot topic and sit back to watch it develop into a mess, don't give in
My last house included a small 6 acre wooded lot. While not very feasible for bowhunting, I did take a couple with a rifle...and the idea of taking game off of my land was sweet.
The deer are a public resource. as such the DNR manages the heard and sets the rules. If you think deer are being overharvested on private land you should let them know. I think they will find your opinion different than most others.
Your problem it actually a little different though; You don't seem to want to manage the resource, but other people. People have the right to do what they want and hunt how they want as long as its within the rules- you do not own them.
I do see your point about increased methods now legalized to hunt with, over longer more extended seasons. There has definitely been a trend in that changes in hunting regulations seem to always be in such a way as to make it easier to kill more deer. But those regulations apply to public land as much as private.
Many landowners that you describe are stewarts of the land, work hard and invest time and money to improve habitat. That habitat often not only benefits deer but many other species. I don't think complaining because they help the health of the deer heard as well as other species in general is going to gain much traction here.
Whether or not someone takes pride in shooting a deer where they have manipulated their land to enhance their chances is another story. I think each of us has to evaluate that on our own. I for one value my experiences on public land. Scouting, picking and setting up a stand on a level playing field and being successful does bring more self-satisfaction. Even a 2 mile drag out contributes to the memory. But i also enjoy planting shrubs and trees and even food plots to see what the fruits of that labor will be. Maybe your not impressed by one's hunting abilities if they harvest a deer in such an enhanced environment. But maybe they would say all the time and effort to create the environment is now just as much a part of the hunt as setting up a concealed deer blind, or playing the wind, or practicing shooting their bow, etc.
Caused by bad meds, smelling the wrong paint, lack of decent hunting weather, or what??
LTL Jimbow- You are asking that private landowners who plant food for deer and other wildlife stop doing it?
You forget that this is what was approved by the citizens of the great State of Wisconsin! Governor Walker and the DNR have asked that the citizens who want to improve hunting on their property join in the fun. Come on and sign up your acreage under the CDAC program. Get all the help you need form the DNR and the State will again be one of the leaders in the Deer Hunting World!!
Ok, now that I have that off my chest back to the questions you raise!
Where do YOU get off telling me what I can and what I can't do on my property? Last I looked I live in the United States of America, I PAY MY property taxes, I do what I do by the laws that govern me and my neighbors.
Since when do Whitetail Deer know what a fence line is? I do not have 10 ft double fences surrounding my property to keep them in or out. They are free to come and go as they please, at their leisure. Well, maybe they are chased onto the property every deer season by the neighbors!
Where do YOU get off telling me that I have to harvest all of my crops and sell them at a loss, instead of choosing to leave them stand for the wildlife? Or choose to plant a cover crop, that happen to be a favorite of the deer, so when planting time comes next spring I save on tilling and fertilizer costs??
When YOU sign my paycheck YOU will have that right. Then and only then will you have that ability.
I am NOT privatizing the deer herd, nor the geese, nor the sandhill cranes, not the songbirds, or any other wildlife that chooses to use the property. I am providing them the resources that they need to live, breed, survive and hopefully provide years and years of hunting for my family and my surrounding neighbors, their kids, their grand kids and many future generations. If you were my neighbor I am sure you would be thankful when the deer frequent the area under your treestand. There are more deer shot by neighbors who don't have the ability to produce the feed we do than we shoot in 5 years off of our property.
How is this a dangerous trend? It is not something that just started in recent years, it has been going on for many many years. Maybe you just crawled out from under a rock or something???
Life's hard, get a helmet!
There are plenty of township laws which restrict fences, not to mention State laws also.
Yup, I just spend a couple minutes in the spring planting my food plots, then sit in my lazyboy pick out which buck I'm going to shoot by looking at the trailcam pictures, EASILY pinpoint exactly which tree he'll walk under at EXACTLY which time, then shoot him in about 10 minutes in September. IT'S JUST THAT EASY!!!
(I guess I also spend 100's of hours a year attacking buckthorn, garlic mustard, multiflora rose, autumn olive, honeysuckle, poison hemlock, etc etc etc., but that doesn't count. I will never see the rewards of those efforts in my lifetime, but I'm just a lazy snob so WHO CARES!!!)
With my 3 acres of food plots, after bowhunting 12 straight days in late Oct early Nov and having NOTHING to show for it, what the heck is going on??? The deer should be crowding all over my place?!?! I guided my 11 year old daughter both days of the youth gun, all nine days of the regular gun, and then she finally got her buck with the muzzleloader on the second night. Jeez, with a rifle and food plots, according to LTL Jim it should been EASY to shoot one of the mature bucks crowding my little deer heaven. After all, "It doesn't take much effort..." OH YEAH, THEY'RE WILD ANIMALS AND HAVE THE FREEDOM TO GO WHERE THEY WANT WHEN THEY WANT.
Truth is, there were MANY more deer on my soybean field after it was combined than I ever saw near my food plots (clover and corn this year).
Correct my word not yours, but if you do it illegally then it's an issue that everyone around you has to deal with.
We all have choices we choose to make, not have to make. No one is telling you not to build a fence, the laws state what kind of fence you should legally build. If you choose to follow the law that a choice you choose to make.
We all have an equal opportunity to acquire property. That's a choice you personally have to make. There are many questions that you have to answer to yourself, no one else.
Can I afford it? How am I going to pay for it? What are my personal goals for the property? Am I going to manage it for mature timber, farm it, hunt it, put an amusement park on it? What can I legally do on and with this property?
I invite most of you to be my neighbors, learn how to manage and enjoy your property. Learn the costs involved with doing what I do. Partake in the enjoyment of being involved with a first time deer hunter taking his or her first deer. See the smile on the face of a 81 year old deer hunter who harvested a buck! Sit on a stump and watch 20 to 30 deer come out of the swamp and make their way onto a food plot, count the bucks, does and fawns. Learn that they will walk right through an awesome looking food plot in August to feed on freshly sprouted oats the neighbor planted 2 weeks ago, yet go nuts over the same plot once it freezes. Learn that you have choices and there is no need to harvest the first buck you see every year. Learn that there are plenty of does that should and can be harvested and it won't hurt the population.
I hope you learn that it's not all about the harvest of a deer, it's much more than that!
I hope you get the picture.
As taxpayers and residents of the state, we both share in the resource equally. The deer go where they want to go, not where you tell them to go.
An equally stupid question would be "Why should I, a pretty common sense guy, allow you to talk so stupid?"
to be honest with you, I wish baiting for deer and food plots never came about, but that genie is out of the bottle
It would really help to think things like this through to the end.
Lastly, who says "it goes against everything that says the bow hunt is something real and special?" By whose opinion, yours? Your and my opinions are simply that, the opinions of individual guys. I can't mandate how other people hunt or dictate what is "real or special" for them any more or less than you can. Why do you persist on trying?
Are you saying it is hard to kill a deer or its hard to kill a certain deer you want?
IMO Hunting in the north without bait is challenging because of a lower deer population. On private land It is relatively easy to kill one. I could have shot ten deer hunting the gun season this year on private land.
You guys are talking about farmers planting. Farmers have been planting for years just not for keeping deer as the main reason or priority.
I do chuckle at some are saying they are enhancing for all wildlife. Maybe a few are but in all honesty its for the bone on the head.
I get its legal, I get its your land and I get your offended by LilJimBow seeming to be telling what you can do and what you cant. I can tell you he isn't. I think he is just trying to convey the way it is becoming a culture of horns of sorts and changing the purity of hunting to something different. Is the different a good thing??? Who knows.
In my eyes TV has also played a huge part in the perception of what hunting is or should be(tongue in cheek). I have yet seen anyone fist bump after shooting a doe. Better yet they wouldn't get any ratings and the show would be dropped. Who wants to see a doe get shot right??? All about money and size and not so much Hunting anymore. I would rather watch a 1-0 hockey game and understanding its a defensive game than watch a high scoring game where the game wasn't really played all that well. Boring to some I guess.
I just hate to see where this is going. Capt Mike you wrote me a great PM about the crossbow and the way it came about. Your message calmed me down but talking from my own experience in our own camp it changed our hunting camp forever. Zinger and others can argue in favor, people can show me figures of no impact but it changed my camp. We have more guys on the same land and it has NOTHING to do with killing my deer (Bloodtrail)
Where does it stop??? Who knows. By the way I don't own any land but have access to private with a great family.
PS - CaptMike - where are we in the two year study for those damn weapons!LOL
Below is a description or an example of a deer farm , A Farm ran specifically for growing deer . It is the hunt that Carbon Express is giving away . I feel like there are land owners trying to create this . Can we have that while much public land is marginal to just plain bad ?
“Imagine this: setting foot onto an exclusive hunting paradise of 9,400 acres with a deer population of over 1,000 and a one to one buck-to-doe ratio. A land where the average buck weight is 200 pounds, the average Trophy score ranges in the mid 140s, an average day’s success is determined by your keen eye for wildlife management and is rewarded generously in Trophy bucks. Here is your chance to immerse yourself into the luxurious world of wildlife hunting just 15 minutes from Natchez, Mississippi, with Carbon Express at Giles Island - the perfect destination for the Ultimate Whitetail Experience.
After reading these past posts I could go off and really let it rip at a couple of people here.
But I realize it's not worth my time and effort. I am going to go over some soil samples so I can decide what seed I need to order for next spring.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Private land and enhancing it for wildlife is nothing new. Landowners do it for all sorts of varying reasons, and it's ultimately their choice. -Each purchased the soil and pay taxes for the same. Deer and other wildlife are free to come and go as each pleases. Sure, some will stay longer and some may not leave depending on the tract of property and conditions there and around it.
Life goes on...
Figures vary but when you add up all the county, state and national forests, DNR properties, open MFL, Voluntary Public Access, federal lands open to hunting, land trusts and Nature Conservancy properties, there are more than seven million acres of land that the public can hunt deer in Wisconsin.
Jim- We don't have ceremonies, we are just thankful that we are able to do what we do.
If it takes a "condo" for my 81 year old Father In Law to be able to get out and enjoy the deer hunt, then a "condo" is what it is.
I have a feeling that somewhere along the way you were one of those kids in the sandbox that got mad when little Johnny picked up his toys and went home and you were left there to play with the sticks and sand. Eventually crying because there were no toys in the sandbox.
Just saying........
I own private land here in Wisconsin because I enjoy working in the dirt on my spare time and at the end of the day I hope I can pass this little slice of heaven down to my children and they can do likewise. The generation before made it better. I have made it better. It will continue to be better. I don't think anyone should feel bad about it.
There are millions of acres and ample opportunities to hunt whitetails in Wisconsin absolutely free admission. No charge. Show up and hunt the first day of season and hunt until the last if you like. Hunt one spot one day and another the next. Nobody says that there's a deer around every tree though. Hunting is more difficult for the most part, certainly. It's something that most accept though. We as Wisconsin citizens should be proud of what we have as many would LOVE to have the public opportunities available that we have at our fingertips. (Even if they are not as good as the private lands.) There are many big bucks shot from public lands every year in Wisconsin. These hunters learn the game and put in time. (Maybe a "ceremony" is in the future here for these guys as I will be the first to admit that shooting a public land giant is much more difficult than private...)
This thread reminds me of a song Hank Williams once sang...
"If you want to walk naked through a briar patch to shoot the first deer you see, and think you're the better hunter, you're wrong!"
Nominated for top 10 all-time Bowsite comments, IMO!
Dumbest thread ever in the history of the bowsite
Democrat?
Why in the world would you care if someone prefers to enjoy a different hunting experience than you? What they do on their land and the experience they have has absolutely no affect on your public land hunting experience.
Lets assume I am a phenomenal farmer and every plant, plot, bedding area and tree grows lush, without fail. I am the best hypothetical LTL Jimbow/Neverbait deer farmer in the history of land improvement. I have improved the carrying capacity of my theoretical dream land so that it can support one deer every five acres. I am the theoretical man!!!
I have the same number of tags. Any of my buddies that would hunt with me are guys who would be relocating their hunt from public land or their property in one case.
Same number of hunters. Fewer on public. More deer. How is that hurting a public land hunter? None of my hypothetical deertopia bucks would wander off my theoretical land looking for does?
I guess that I should be excited that my theoretical dream property can be much smaller and less expensive thus more attainable since it's so easy.
Of course, when the disappointment comes from my lack of fulfilling backyard hunts, I suppose that I'll just have to leave all my deer locked up and go chase some deer back on the public by Jimbow. But even then, we're back to square one...with more deer.
In full disclosure, we planted some apple trees on my buddy's land. The deer and bear seem to like the apples and my wife makes a mean apple pie. We have not yet killed a deer eating apples, but I would like to some day. I would be pleased eating those back straps with apple pie for dessert.
And I would have to chuckle at anyone giving me crap about it.
Trebeck would make you state "what is" THERE'S A TEAR IN MY BEER?
Well said, you finally agree that you started an unbelievably dumb thread.
Carry on.....
Good add to the thread!
We have put in 2 nesting pods that the waterfowl use and that provided water for plenty of other animals and critters. Numerous bluebird and wood duck houses. over 300 apple trees, 600 aspen and unknown numbers of spruces, balsam white pine, red pine. A logging and land management plan which includes select cuts, clearcuts for aspen regeneration, Switchgrass plantings. Natural patches of black and raspberries. The clover gets green chopped and traded to a neighbor to feed his livestock and in turn he helps plant and harvest corn and other crops. As far as food plots- pumpkins(which also make great pies and bread!) oats which is double cropped, winter wheat which is combines in the spring, corn which is left to stand all winter, plus other small plots.
36,000+ trees planted (10 species), 12 acres of prairie planted, 3 timber harvests to date, ponds, trails, invasive vegetation management, 32 bluebird houses, timber stand improvements, prescribed burns, etc., etc.
I myself don't see any disparity between what I'm doing on our private land over what I did was I was employed by WDNR in wildlife management on public land!
By improving the hunting opportunities on a property, you increase the odds of it's continued use as wildlife habitat. Much of our state's private landholdings are owned for the purpose of deer hunting. The fact that it's difficult to gain access to hunt private land and the fact that these lands are taxed as being recreational lands despite not having any recreational facilities present is testament that even the tax man recognizes this fact. Remove the deer and the primary justification for landownership (and it's corresponding $/acre) goes away. Once that's gone, it opens the door for other less friendly wildlife land uses.
But I think LTL Jimmy started this thread due to his viewing of the multitude of hunting shows where hunting over foodplots DOES look easy. I'm sure with the amount of land some of these TV personalities have access to, it probably is much more likely to encounter an increase quantity and quality of deer, but the primary reason those deer are showing themselves during legal hours is due to lack of pressure. Put a foodplot in your typical Wisconsin deer property and you definitely will not see what you're seeing on TV. If you simply bump the deer of your foodplot once, your sightings plummet. Add the impacts of our Wisconsin gun season and things can get really slow over a foodplot.
In 23 years of 3-5 hunters on our property with up to 9 different foodplots we've taken a whopping total of 3 bucks over foodplots. (We have taken a number of does over them however). That sure doesn't sound too easy to me?
Deer farm
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A deer farm is a FENCED PIECE OF LAND suitable for grazing that is populated with deer such as elk, moose, and even reindeer raised for the purpose of hunting tourism or as livestock. This practice is very different from the way such Arctic communities like the Laplanders migrate in open country with their herds of reindeer
You guys are cracking me up.
What limits would you like to impose on these guys on their own land?
My point is simple. If The guy next to me owns a forty acre dirt field full of rocks, and I farm forty acres of alfalfa yet he expects to kill deer, and blames me because he sees less deer, wouldn't that seem silly? Of course the deer are going to go where the food is. They are also going to go where the cover is. They are also going to go where there is less pressure. That is the reward to those people that can afford private property. And the downturn is if you're hunting public land, you have to deal with whatever adversity there might be....but remember this: IT'S FREE! You paid zilch!
Farming for deer or farming for agriculture is ultimately the same deal. Is the farmer in your line of sights as well? he likely trumps the food plots wouldn't you think? Most importantly, why the need to feel your method of hunting is more of a quality hunt than the guy who improves his land? If a guy wants to hunt for horn, and you want to hunt for meat, isn't that okay? Too often we get consumed by our own personal feelings as if we want other people to mirror our way of thinking? I do not want people to think like me. Damn, life would be very very boring!
Again, I think you should embrace the guys who carry more deer on their property. These people manage land differently than the DNR, and often times are much more successful because of the lack of public interruption, and the ability to "farm" the way I think many public land hunters would like to do on public land, but cannot because the lack of ownership. Funny how people talk about other people trying to lay claim to areas by placing food or tree stands or blinds etc. The idea of attracting deer on public land is ever-present, but only because public land, it is illegal.
I have to say that I for one like the ease of which I hunt. I can walk to my stand on a very nice trail making very little noise. I can almost always drive up to my deer and throw it in the truck. I enjoy seeing deer on almost every sit. I like the many opportunities to pass deer....as well as opportunities to take a couple each year. I enjoy hunting from stands that don't get messed with. I enjoy leaving 15 stands out there year round. I enjoy hunting 2 minutes from my home. Do I enjoy comfort? Yes! If I was to compare my hunting at the age of 14 to my current age 34 years later, I most certainly hunt smarter and can afford the comforts that come with age. All of this is on farm land, no plots, but there is no difference in my opinion.
Why is that so bad? Is it a bit of jealousy or the fact that you want everyone to hunt like you FEEL is the right way to hunt?
Another thing to think about LtlJim, most of the private property owners pay more taxes on our land in a year than it would cost you to exclusively lease a nice piece of property for hunting! Think about that for a minute the next time you want to complain.
Cut your cable or Dish connection and get out into the woods. It seems that you've been glued to the boobtube for too long!
Whitetail Institute Pies and bread..LOL
Fences around fields of alfalfa, clover or corn to keep the deer out?
Maybe you should teach all of the deer to quit being opportunistic and stay out of the corn!
WOW!!!
All the same arguments to ban baiting should apply to bait plots also no matter how hard you guys try a sugar coat it. By enhancing the land you just altered "natural" deer movement. Also forcing neighbors to do the same to compete for the same deer wether they can afford to or not.
Ban baiting is good y'all say. Deer move more and makes hunting better when there is no bait. In normal farming practice "most" crops are removed from the fields in the fall. Bait plotting does all the same things that baiting does, but on a grander scale. Perhaps we should put restrictions in place. Let's say you can only plant 1 acre per 50 owned. Bait piles are restricted after all.
You say food plots benefits wildlife. Sure it does. Right up to the time you put the wildlife in your freezer. LOL removing baiting and food plots would level the playing field for all. Just for the record also. I'm a land owner saying this.
Anybody with land in the program that can verify or correct that?
If you could also answer another question, Cheesehead Mike...If I recall correctly, the guy that had land in the program said that anything helped, but I don't think that it was a "dramatic reduction" in taxes and he had hoops to jump through. I think that he called it Managed Forest Crop or something. Maybe it's a better deal now? Has it provided you with a "dramatic reduction" in taxes?
I just love how everyone that does food plotting gets on a baiter. But would never admit they are doing the same.
Placing bait out is also beneficial to wildlife. It feeds deer, turkey, squirrels, wild birds, and other small game. What's the difference between a standing corn field and a 2 gallon bucket of corn spred out on the ground?
It has given me a ton of respect for farmers, especially the single family small operation variety. It has been a learning experience in every way for the last 5 years. They double as money pits, and no matter if you do everything right at the end of the day you are still at the mercy of nature.
It hasn't made our hunting any easier we see more doe's for sure but big bucks don't go strolling though an open area in the middle of the day in relatively heavily pressured areas like they do on ol lee and tiff's Iowa mega farm. What it may do is keep a few more mature bucks around during the rut, but considering we are still pretty much surrounded by AG its hard to say. At the end of the day its just another reason to enjoy the land and get up there, sweating, and watching your work pop out of the ground. Good luck trying to take that away from me. Dumb thread, but this country is all about regulating everything that could possibly be regulated now a days so nothing surprises me any more.
"Even the playing field" - what a joke
"This thread" - what a joke
HAHAHAH I have my own hunting land and you don't! I think thats what this is all about - what a joke
Live and let live, stop trying to shove your brand of hunting down my throat
This is supposed to be a website about hunting in Wisconsin.
Instead it is a constant bitch fest by a couple dozen princesses, who think they are better and know better than everyone else, and if you don't hunt and think exactly like them, then you a piece of dogcrap.
Disgusting.
Who needs ANTI-hunters, when we obviously have so many people who hate hunting in our very ranks.
I need a dozer in there this winter to remove around 50+ stumps from that number of trees we dropped so we can plant a food plot next year. Our land is basically wet and dense cedar swamp with just a few high dry spots. A food plot will differentiate our land from our neighbors because nobody around us has a plot and there is no ag land anywhere close. We should draw deer out of other's cedars with this plot and a couple of smaller kill plots I hope to accomplish. What a labor of love owning land brings and when the rewards are reeped, it is all so worth it.
I don't see how Managed Forest Land is a burden on the taxpayers. Managed Forest Land does not generate government services that have to be paid for with taxpayer revenue. It's not like it uses utilities, has public school students, has people living on it collecting welfare or other county programs, etc, etc, etc.
The land just sits there growing trees, it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything.
My land was already enrolled in the program when I bought it and yes the taxes are low, not sure about "dramatic" because I don't know what the taxes would he otherwise but it is a substantial reduction. I believe the "lost" tax revenue will be mostly recouped when the land is logged. And yes, there are rules and hoops to jump through.
I'm also very glad I bought my land. It's a lot of work but also very rewarding to have your own little slice of heaven and to be able to improve the habitat for all animals.
You see I'm a land owner. Not a large amount but enough to hunt and unusually have a shooter buck or two around. As I'm sure my neighbors do. Now if one greedy neighbor started a food plot he surly over time would attract a lot of the deer in the area.
So now I would have to spend tons of hours and money doing the same just to get back to even on the playing field. Soon one or the other is going to try and one up the other to gain advantage and the circle continues.
Why go through all that? Ban baiting and food plots. Hunt the farms if you have them but let the deer move naturally. Funny back in the 70's-80's before QDMA, Food plots, and "farming for wildlife" there were deer all over. Now deer are at 30 year lows and still declining. I feel sorry for today's outdoors youth and what we'll leave them.
Greed is a terrible word and act.
I hope to eventually own a chunk of land.
I am not jealous of your land ownership, looking to bust your chops and place food plot limits on you or take anything away. I am jealous of guys who own their own land because I hope to get there one day...and maybe enjoy some holiday backstraps and apple pie that are both connected to an apple tree that I planted with my kids some time in the future.
Sorry that my sarcasm wasn't clear.
Merry Christmas to all of you guys and a Happy New Year. Be safe. Have fun. Enjoy the family.
No worries I understood your sarcasm and I was just trying to be informative with my response. Goes to show how the written word can be misconstrued... happens with my girlfriend all the time ;^)
I agree, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
The lack of deer on the landscape has nothing to do with food plots. Food plots have nothing to do with greed either for most people that do them, it helps deer make it through winter healthier, and I would hope and know my neighbors do the same thing. All of them are farmers and all of them leave some amount of their crops standing through winter. It benefits everyone not just the individual land owner. The deer still travel in fact they probably move around more because there are even more choices for them.
The greed is from many years of 100s of thousands of free doe tags that were not sustainable. We never had the huge population crash because none of us went crazy on the local doe population. We made our own smart and conservative choices and it shows. We are between 29 and Hwy 64 and you'd think we were in a southern farmland zone, with a relatively well balanced heard. We use to not see any turkeys, but now they also have plenty of food to get through the hard winters up there and we have a very hunt-able population, this also benefits everyone around. We see more everything, more mink, more weasel, more rabbit, more eagles, hawks, owls, more ducks, more geese, and grouse, snipe, wood cock, more bears, coyotes, wolves, foxes, bobcats, porcupines, fishers, beavers, otters. WE have become better stewards of the land, and without the habitat improvements and food plots we would not have the beautiful diversity we enjoy.
Plus those food plots get any amount of human activity and its usually a few days before even a doe will enter it during day light. IF your neighbors start leaving crops up or just food plotting it will be doing you a favor, and to think otherwise is just wrong. And comparing weeks of work every year to dumping a bucket of corn in the woods is a pretty weak argument.
Some people can not reasonably afford to go to college so we should ban that to even the playing field?
Life isn't fair wear a helmet
Thank god I am 100% confident that what is being suggested here will never happen in my life time. That would be a law i'd have to break, not to mention it be so full of loop holes I wouldn't even have to break it to keep doing what I am doing.
And through all of this, the wildlife would be the biggest winners.
Mr. LTL JimBow's dad ....... WHY did you go back to that tree?
+1,000
Happygolucky confirmed your assertions when he posted this about his bait plots drawing deer away from the neighbors
"A food plot will differentiate our land from our neighbors because nobody around us has a plot and there is no ag land anywhere close. We should draw deer out of other's cedars with this plot and a couple of smaller kill plots I hope to accomplish."
You and happy are doing a good job of exposing the issue with this form of baiting.
My neighbor draws more deer than me booowhooo whooo....sounds like your the greedy ones. This is one of the most disgusting arguments I have ever seen on here. Right up there with not getting newbies started in our great tradition.
What about Bob being a better shot with his bow, or rifle, because he has the best equipment and tons of free time to practice because hes better off, that's not fair, how do we make sure "Bob" is no more accurate than "Bill has no time or money".
I forgot to mention Bob happens to own property that is the perfect natural funnel area coming off of a couple different private and public land areas...That is definitely not fair. He also doesn't pressure his land at all so as soon as that public land gets some pressure all the deer bed on his land, that is just horrific we better get some laws on the books to fix this quick. Who needs goals, dream, and ambitions when we can just make everything fair. Sounds a lot like communism ....SIGN ME UP.
Like I said thank god this opinion is in the minority and I have nothing to fear, I can put this in the same catagory with peta and the take my guns crowd. Its just not going to happen. I think they'd come for my guns before my food plots.
Some of you should look into traveling to some of the countries who's Ideals you seem to think would better fit your lives, maybe consider a move.
You tell the public land Hunter hunting will be better without bating. Then spend hours and a bunch of money planting bait because it makes better hunting. Ha!
"A food plot will differentiate our land from our neighbors because nobody around us has a plot and there is no ag land anywhere close. We should draw deer out of other's cedars with this plot and a couple of smaller kill plots I hope to accomplish."
You and happy are doing a good job of exposing the issue with this form of baiting. "
Absolutely, 100%, that is one of my goals with a food plot Ronny. I want to see more deer and more squirrels and more grouse. I mean really Ronny, who wouldn't want to see more deer Ronny? It is a beautiful thing to own land and improve it. Any neighbor setting up on the perimeter should benefit from it too. I want the plot to be a fall/winter plot so the deer in that area of the UP will have some good food into the winter. We get some tough winters there you know. Yet another benefit I am happy about. So many things to be Happygolucky about as a new land owner. It took some sacrifice though and now some really dang hard work but it paid off for my son and that is why I made the purchase.
Winner, winner!
You tell the public land Hunter hunting will be better without bating. Then spend hours and a bunch of money planting bait because it makes better hunting. Ha!"
Bingo DT. That's my point as well. I don't care either way if people bait on their land by growing it or if they dump it. But don't come here and pretend its different.
Food plotting is different than baiting for the simple fact you don't congregate a dozen different deer noses in a square foot or two area. A lot more space for the noses in a 1 acre clover field, or 3 acre bean field. This only matters for disease prevention, I've seen deer interact plenty to know I don't think little bait piles speed up disease transfer enough to matter, they do speed it up a little but not much. I'm pretty sure every deer in a square mile area has nose to nose contact at some point with each deer in a 12 month period. The no baiting crowd is also a minority, not as much as no food plots but a small group all the same.
Pretty ignorant if you can't see the differences, but then we already knew that
I grant you that there numerous similarities, but saying they are the 'same' is just stretching it too far.
I guess some people harken back to the days when landowners did nothing to manage their property for deer. Down south here, they tilled every square inch they could and pastured the rest. Logging meant taking all the good trees and leaving all the crap. The DNR encouraged everyone to plant such wonderful plants such as buckthorn, autumn olive, and multiflora rose. Garlic mustard was a wonderful medicinal plant. Gun season meant tons of pressure and deer drives covering every acre, then working hard to make sure EVERY tag was filled. No one dared pass up a legal deer or you were shunned, or more likely called a liar.
The fact is, there are a spectrum of things landowners can do to improve their properties. Leaving a few acres of food standing to provide a place to hunt near, and leaving some stand over the winter and into the spring so the deer can be a little healthier is on that spectrum. As is planting mast trees, creating bedding areas, pressuring the deer less, etc.
There are ways to improve everyone's hunting, but vilifying me for working my butt off to afford hunting land, then working twice as hard to improve it for the deer, is NOT the most productive way of doing it.
Here is my take on landowners.......These people worked hard, to buy land, and now want to take care of it. Sure a lot of some lucky people, got to inherit good land, but most worked hard, and earned it....
Landowners have an investment, and if they want to manage it, for better deer hunting, well that is a good thing, heck it benefits everyone,,,,,,
Case in point, I have been hunting small tracts of public land in Waupaca Co. I have seen no hunters to speak of, and you bet I am seeing deer..... those deer are passing thru, due to good land around what I am hunting........
another point,,,, most of my hunting is done north of Hwy 70 in Forest and Florence County, I accept what we have, and the challenge of that hunt....... BUT, if the state would get rid of baiting now in Florence Co, it would help me, the deer would get back to normal.....
next season Forest Co will be closed.... that area will improve, although, baiting will not go away over nite....... the shell station in Laona said they will sell no bait next year, even though they could legally
with that said, the private land person, should still be able, to plant and manage property, believe me, they are not going to keep all the deer on their land, and it will be a healthier herd,,,,,,,
I can not speak for central Wisconsin, only for the area I know of,,,,,,
Could have been the little cold snap we had also? Never had a camera on the plot so not sure if that was it?
Found some yote scat with deer hair in it. Have not seen any dead deer on the property but might be a road kill or someone's carcass thrown around somewhere? Not sure.
The intent is to attract and put an animal in a predictable spot to shoot it. The only difference is time and equipment needed for planting or placing.
You can have all the best land managers but not everyone does it obviously....and you throw in the over harvesting that went on for years and this is what you get. Everyone around me managed their land and it shows...we never over harvested at least not to the extremes of some areas and it show...so yes it makes a difference but only if you have a bunch of us in an area. If you have one guy that does it surrounded by a bunch of if its brown its down crowd ....your absolutely right it wont make much difference at all.
There were years of 200K+ and one 300K+
I saw more deer in the early 80's with under 200K for harvest numbers than I do now. But that is because of the limited antlerless tags available.
If we get a couple more winters like this and you will see the population raise, in wolf country or not.
Like I stated earlier. If for argument sake, plots were banned, the next thing people would complain about would be the lucky guy who hunts over a picked crop that was farmed under normal farming practices. Which is what I hunt. I'll tell you right now, I'm pretty lucky to hunt what I hunt, and have no issue that my neighbor plants a clover patch along his trails, because I've got 120 acres of alfalfa that trumps his lol. I do have an issue that he chose to use minerals two years ago, but a neighbor had a bigger issue with it, and turned him in. He's not hunting this year because of it (multiple offenses). I really only had an issue because it was illegal, and he cheated, but at the same time, I hunt a food source myself, but the difference is it is legal, and I have 30 different trails the deer can come out on, rather than a finite spot that draws them to a much more predictable location. Done legally, I don't care what anyone does. Interfighting amongst ourselves calling us a brotherhood of hunters must look like a joke to those already against us? There are so many legal activities we as hunters debate that should be done far more privately if we must disagree, versus on a public forum, where we look very divided.
Inequity: Meaning fairness? Life isn't fair, and I hate socialism, so I can appreciate that inequity you speak of! I have plenty, and plenty have more. I don't begrudge them because they have more, and shouldn't be frowned upon because I may have more than someone else. It's the reason people strive and thrive or don't try, and complain. Quite frankly people thinking with entitlement are literally part of the degradation of this country. So before you respond that the people with private land act entitled (even though that's not the entitlement I speak of), let me beat you to it. Yes, they are entitled because they own private land (no matter how they got it), and can do with it anything they want, as long as it's legal or don't get caught lol.
Neverbait, what is your point?
DUH otherwise why bother trying to buy and maintain land, pay taxes, ect.
Again its a stupid pathetic argument. Neverbait had a better education than me, so that is no fair, he should not have a better chance than I at the same job with the same experience.
Neverbait is a small business owner he pays taxes and maintains his business and gets a lot of benefits from that, that a non business owner doesn't get...that inst fair...give me a break. I didn't fight for this country so clowns like you could push some BS socialism agenda. I did fight for it so you have the right to voice such foolish oppinions and laugh at it. You get nothing from life unless you work for it and earn it, every thing else is a cop-out and or lazyness.
Maybe $1 of every license sold should go towards purchasing more land for public use, each county gets x amount of $$ based on how many licenses sold. I would never vote for that either, but something like that could be more realistic any ways. After all I already subsidize public land hunting plenty considering I use it 0. I don't see anyone trying to subsidize me as a private land hunter, in fact I am penalized for it as a tax payer. Tell me how this is fair? People like you make me not care when I hear about them selling off tracts of public land, or privatizing public parks
This state, its present administration, (which I voted for), is all about private land period.....
One makes me sick, and I have written letters and emails and phone calls, (no response), is about the present deer farmers...
I have no problem with running a business, but why should the taxpayer, bail you out, when it comes to too many deer on property, that have to be destroyed because of CWD......
And why is not double fencing required on all deer farms??????
And as a pretty staunch conservative, I get in some heated discussions, when I hear, conservative friends say,,,,, I want government out of my business, but of course, they like them government checks for their farms and ranches each month.......
lots of bs hypocrisy
That being said that has nothing to do with the fairness of a private land owner busting his or her ass to improve their land and put in food plots.
INMHO after Keith McCaffrey left the DNR, quality deer mgt of the public land deer, was left to die a slow death. Keith knew what he was doing, but those that followed, clearly did not have the best interest in the herd, as a whole.
Presently its too political, but look at private land mgt, compare that to state mgt of a public her, and to me, the results speak for themselves.....
Two writers that I like, are Durkin and Smith, however, they talk about public land hunting, but they mostly hunt private land.......
give credit where it is due.......
ACU- thank you for your service.
I agree, lots of jealousy here.
Hunting/using food sources has been going on since man has been hunting. I am not talking baiting but just food sources in general.
Native Americans used to burn the prairie only to come back a couple years later to hunt the burned area as it was lush and green now with all the dead grass gone. When you go fishing do you look for the schools of fish that already feed up or find the schools that are actively feeding?
Thinking that foodplots hoard deer in a tiny area shows your lack of hunting knowledge in general. Right now with foodplots going the deer are still hitting the farmers corn field, the other farmers winter wheat field, the other farmers corn field and the vast woods with acorns like marbles on the floor everywhere. Pick your poison.
So now all land owners are violators...Brilliant!
Your worried about the venison you eat??? You should be more concerned about the beef and chicken you consume. You really have no idea what is in that. None at all, even the free range all organic crap. Plus the end less amounts of crap farmers use to grow their crops the deer are already ingesting...so what the hell is the difference? How is the private land owner that manages his land going to make those issues any worse? YOUR BLIND!
Might sit on a run to see if I want to shoot a doe, on public land that because I have private land I do not know how to hunt.
My grass burning days are long ago and over.
Buckthorn is flavor of the day.
I control how many people hunt it at a time, I control what gets shot, I control what crops get planted, when, and how long they are left up.
And when you combine the collective efforts of those all around me doing pretty much the same thing, the results speak for themselves. A Balanced buck to doe ratio, great age structure, little to no winter kill, great forest regeneration, and excellent forest diversity, for a forester and biologist told me so :P keep trying to pee in my cheerios though, I will still keep enjoying what I do.
You actually sound like the type of private land owner who tried doing the food plot thing, but found it a little more challenging (which it is) than it looked on TV and gave up.
Neverbait, My advice is to start picking these guys brains to help you to be a better hunter so your not such a bitter, anti-land owner hunter.
Good luck with that....
Then why are you concerned? After all I must have it coming right? Because I'm a law breaking land owner.
Again I'm in good company.
Good luck in Iowa, careful lots of landowners and corn fields.
BTW I have no CRP or MFL open or closed. But am getting to understand why so much of it is closed.
Dumbest concept ever. As mentioned previously Myself and any one else that plants food plots do it in the dame manner that farmers plant crops, using herbicides, fertilizers, ect. So if you have a problem with what we do you have a problem with with the entire agricultural process.
It is easy to kill a "deer" its not as easy to kill a mature old doe, and its even harder to kill a mature old buck, in a way i'm making my life easier because I control the pressure, but over all especially in terms of hours of work put in it is harder.
And your batting 1,000 comment is pretty dumb, my comments about business ownership and using your name were metaphors. You obviously could never accomplish anything like that. Your arguments don't hold water with 90% plus of the deer hunting community. Everything you have mentioned is either completely wrong or so many holes can be punched in it that they make no sense at all. Any your comments about what the big bad private land owner neighbor could be putting out for "your venny" just proves that you know next to nothing.
Unless your complaining about baiting and all the powder crap and supplements but that has nothing to do with food plots 0, zilch, nada, unless of course your also concerned about what your venny is ingesting from the neighbors farm.
Live and let live, don't be an ignorant know it all who obviously has no idea what they are talking about.
And feeding deer in the middle of winter is different than leaving a food source up through fall and winter instead of popping out of no where and changing their diet suddenly...which is bad for them in the dead of winter.
Again way to fail at proving your point, and once again prove you have no clue what your talking about.
I also find it hilarious that your more concerned about what joe schmoes doing and putting out for deer than what farms put out and spread and spray by the ton. You may need to shuffle your priorities slightly
PS I also find all my facts on whitetail deer on a small online news outlet like bangordailynews.com LOL you know cause maine is known for their huge whitetail deer population and, and herd managment.
TOO EASY
And btw, deer hunting is NOT easy, unless all you shoot are 1 year old deer. The way you talk you can go out there and have your pick of both a mature doe and an old buck... I call bullshit! I am now imagining your uncut junkyard with a few spike skulls laying around and you patting yourself on the back thinking you are the great white hunter.
As for me, I would love for the private land I hunt to be surrounded by folks that properly manage and improve their land.
Keep talking from both sides of your mouth.
#1 Deer hunting became an industry rather than a sport. (Money)
Can't we all just get along? Don't answer that, I already know....
The big bad accomplishments of the modern land manager, food plotting, and land enhancements are nothing but great for the sport. Its gives people that many more reasons to respect, appreciate, and enjoy it. Any one who puts that much work into improving their hunting is going to get that much more out of the end result.
Its 2015 by the way, this thing your reading from is called a computer, and bowsite was brought to you by the internet. We decided a few years ago women could vote, a while before that slavery isn't cool anymore, and prior to that we decided to start a war with the most powerful country in the world at the time so we could live for ourselves and think for ourselves with out a man with a crown telling us what to do with no say in it ourselves. Hope these changes sat okay with with you, assuming your keeping up, which by the sound of it the last 20 years must have been very traumatic for you.
Hugh Hammond Bennett taught us a lot about the importance of shelterbelts, overgrazing, strip farming, CRP and land recovery.
Good hardwood forests are uneven aged, improved for forestry and game management. Roadside and trail seeding prevents erosion and feeds wildlife. Man made forest openings are great for log landings as well as wildlife of all kinds. Removing invasive brush may create habitat for more desirable native species.
I hardly call this deer farming. Whether in the west or in northern Wisconsin, a well managed and diverse landscape attracts deer and other wildlife.
Buying poor land simply to kill a deer is generally a bad investment, I agree with that. Buying land for multiple use and keeping it well managed can however become a lifelong hobby, business, and even great investment.
Broad brushes do not paint very well.
To each their own and if it is what you want you are entitled. Someone even stated it is the 21 century and some need to get with the times. I never minded turning the knob on my tv and sometimes wish things would slow down.
Sarah, give you much credit for taking the time to say what many of us know, yet do not have the patience, to bother with some of these whacko ideas.
There is a great deal of knowledge that is in this thread, but no matter how much information we give him Neverbait "fails to see the forest for the trees."
I think it's about time we let this thread die......
Never, anything? No cutting wood, no trails, no shooting lanes?
Process for identifying individual bucks
Let me describe a progression for getting to know individual bucks which generally starts with food plots in the spring.
Starting around Memorial day weekend you would place trail cams on, or near your food plots. Make sure you have good coverage at each location. I check my cams often during this period and look for mature bucks. Even at these very early stages they are easily identified by their thick, early velvet bases.
Once you spot a pattern, place a salt/mineral lick near that site and set up your trail camera to overlook that lick. Then go away for at least a month.
As the summer goes on you will notice (through your trail cam surveys) identifiable patterns. Buck ‘A’ may frequent Plot 2. Buck ‘C’ migrates between Plots 1, and 5. During this time of the year bucks tend to be both consistent and patternable.
Continue to watch these individual bucks throughout the summer. By mid-august you should have identified your resident bucks, created a shooter list, and understand which bucks have staked out specific core areas.
So if this is going on in 2015 what will be the process in 2025 ? You can call this what ever you want , but its not bowhunting
Should we start taking 100 yard shots now too? Fred and Art plus many others used to take those shots frequently. THAT WAS BOWHUNTING BOY LET ME TELL YA! LOL
This is what makes America great, you can do it your way and I can do it my way. Buy a piece of land and let the buckthorn, garlic mustard etc take over or hop into a national forest and sit on a run and wait for "your" natural moving deer to come by. I'm going to use my resources to see what is around my neck of the woods to help me be put in the best position to shoot a deer to my standards not yours.
Boogerbottom dude be slammin home runs! putting em to sleep! Righteous bucks too! Right on bone collector brothers.
I had no idea who he even is until Google saved the day. Is that a bad thing not to know who the heck he is?
Kudos to that man for thinking of the betterment of the land and the herd. More landowners like him are needed. The discussion about what he should plant and when would have been great as the science behind that is fun to learn. I would have pointed him to the QDMA website which is loaded with people with loads of experience in land improvements and food plots. Lots of very smart landowners here too. I continue to learn. I'll have a new plot on my land next year and am excited for it. It will be surrounded by my 90 acres of dense cedars and the deer will hopefully pour out of them to eat. You ended that conversation far too early neverbait and missed out on some good discussion.
Yea, like corn or soybeans? Damn those farmer/baiters!
I can tell without a doubt, that your comparison to the bait pile is not the same as a food plot, but the food plot is absolutely comparable to a farmer's field. I do not hunt bait. I do not hunt a food plot, but WE ALL HUNT FOOD! will you be satisfied if your desire to end plotting comes to fruition, or will you then feel the need to fence in those farmer fields to keep those deer from eating the poison (that will kill off the herd) you think is out there?
I'm neither for or against what's legal. I just look at it with optimism. I hunt an alfalfa field you would likely not like. I see deer every night. It's basically an 80 acre food plot. I'm targeting deer that are feeding. Deer eat, drink, shit, breed, and give birth......and that's about it. Why the need to discredit someone who want s to plant a food source that attracts deer and other wildlife. Does it manipulate the deer? Sure! So do acorns, and picked corn, and alfalfa, and green winter wheat. Should there then be a rule to make hunting deer during feeding hours be illegal to suffice your need to make people think like you? Why in world do people want their opinion to be like everyone else's opinion? If we were preprogrammed to all be the same, we'd never make any progress in this world. Why don't you answer my question instead? Will you ever be satisfied? Do you really want people to think like you? You should be blazing trails to your stand instead. This is a good time to get rid of briars. I'll tell you from experience, it's nice not picking burdocks off your clothes, or picking thorns out of your skin, and walking down a silent trail to your stand lol.
If I make a brush pile with the dead branches from the tree in my front yard am I a rabbit farmer? Should I put a fence around that?
Am I a duck farmer because I have two ducks that use my pool every spring before I pump the water off the cover? Where does it end. Food plots, hinge cutting, water holes, etc., etc. it becomes a hobby unto itself. Albeit one that helps deer and other animals but I know enough non hunters that enhance their property just for the fun of it.
I can tell you how many hunters hunt deer that eat. 100%
I can tell you how many people are not going to change because your concerns. 100%
I can tell you how likely you will let this go. 0%
It's all good. Keep fighting the fight brother!
Bone growing substances? Are you referring to minerals and water? A true (meaning fenced in) deer farmer raises those antlered deer using good genetics, abundant food source, and minerals and water. They are not adding steroids or bovine growth hormones? Those things are not needed if those other things exist? I'm not into deer farming, but since you are, you really need to do some research if you're making claims that are simply false? Now if you're claiming deer will contract CWD because they are having nose to nose contact with another infected animal, you might be right. But I hunt in one of those CWD units, and I'm here to tell you this. You'd likely welcome it in your unit you hunt, because the baiting has been made illegal. That does not mean that rule is followed to the letter, and people don't use food plots, but I can assure it has been reduced significantly. Again, I hunt an alfalfa field or picked corn, or beans, because I most certainly like to hunt deer. I've learned in that time, that deer like to eat lol. I beg to see a dude with a small food plot compete with the 960 acres I hunt. 960 acres of great farmland.....full of food!
And please use some reasoning skills would you? You take the time to post, but I don't think you take enough time listen? Would you please put down in writing what you do not like about it, and what the reason is that the deer herd could/would suffer? Are you concerned that the deer farmer will take deer from another piece of property because the food plot is a better piece of property? If the last reason is the reason, then get over it! That's exactly the goal with private land owners willing to put forth the effort....to make their property better. we've been manipulating the landscape since the beginning of time. It is not changing. Who are these people looking for "government assistance because their property values are worthless"? The $300,000 that went to an actual deer farmer? I bet he didn't even ask. I bet the state gave it to him. And the fenced in deer farm is comparing apples to oranges. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING, jut like a bait pile 2 feet square is not the same as a food plot that is one square acre (or ten), just like the food plot is not an 80 acre alfalfa field.
I'm puzzled trying to figure out just what your real reason for continuing to continue? I'm probably done with this, unless you reply with something of value.
Either way, good luck with whatever you need good luck with?
"100% that deer farmers will be concerned only in self interest, and 100% never want to answer that question of how many that plant bait plots also put out bone growing substances. Should have a pretty good sample of folks here to find out." The fact that they farm is proof, in and of itself, that they are concerned with themselves. It is a business. "Bone growing substance" is, as Pete said, minerals. The deer and other animals seek them out. That they are minerals means they come from nature, found in the ground. You know, a part of the environment that wild deer live in.
"Then want government assistance because their property values are almost worthless." Are you talking about Detroit? Other than that, property here in WI has plenty of value.
Just saying
And would you please answer the damn question on what risk you speak of? I laid it out quite well asking what you are trying to get at? You keep saying that people are not answering your questions, when in fact you don't answer ours? We would answer your question if you'd stay on point or if we knew what your question actually was? What do you think they are feeding them? Bone meal?
Often times I see people strongly against something, when they don't take the time to research what the subject is? They speak from the heart and make up silly things that simply don't exist to make their ramblings seem like they have merit, but in the end, look quite foolish to their peers. You certainly didn't place a burr in my saddle. I don't have a real say in this fight, with the exception of one thing. You make very little sense, and I'm truly just trying to figure you out lol.
First off, I do not detest deer farms. Secondly, deer farms have fences. Private land managers do not. Do they feed the deer a food source that attracts them? Yes. Can they leave? Yes. Can you draw deer from a neighboring property? Yes. Can a farmer? Yes. Is hunting commercialized? Yes. Will it stop? No. Is the entire world in every facet commercialized? YES! Are There people profiting from a natural resource? Yes. We've been logging, fishing, drilling, mining, trapping, tapping, gathering, hunting etc. forever. We are profiting from nature, even if it's only for our own self interest. Why that surprises or puzzles you truly puzzles me? Would you believe even you have done it? All of the things you use in your life were once a natural resource. Now look in that same mirror in shame as you've also been part of the problem....even though I won't call you a hypocrite, you sort of are.
Now I certainly could play this game all day. I have an exceptional amount of energy, but I feel at this point, neither of us has made any resolutions. I'll tell you why. Because you lack the capacity to reason. Unfortunately our political arena is led by these same people.....now if you really want to worry about something with a bit more "meat on the bone" versus a deer, try focusing on politics. I bet you're a real joy to talk to on that one!
Have a wonderful day, and read these words three times to let them sink in.
The new fears are the Syrians, guns, vaccinations, Muslims, terrorism etc. In other words, these things exist, but at such a disproportionate level, that they are very random, and things I don't sweat. Again, that doesn't mean I have my head in the sand, it simply means I will not be controlled by insignificant data that wants to spread fear. If my time comes, there's nothing I'm going to do about it, especially on a forum on a thread that no one is looking at. You know what scares me? People! People are often dramatic. People are often pretty negative. People are often like lambs. People irresponsibly think their opinion is fact. People feel they need to try and change someone else's opinion. People fail.
I did however read your link. I just don't care so much. Roll the dice I guess? I will not blame a food plotter or even someone who puts minerals out. These diseases derived from somewhere.....I guess we should blame god....if he exists, whoever he is, and which one you pick?
As an investor, I am curious if you can pinpoint for us when the crash will come?
If the next best antler growing bait/ seed/ mineral supplement ect., comes on the market, how many deer farming land owners that already spend time planting bait and growing deer, will run to buy it? 5% at best.
what percentage would you estimate already do? 5% at best.
Would you own your land if there were no deer? Yes, because there were less deer, the better the land, the more deer you will have. Look at it comparatively to public land versus private land. It is a disproportionate number, showing that private land far exceeds what public land provides.
Would you continue improving habitat if there were no deer? There will be deer, but if you waved a magic wand, and they were all done, we'd likely introduce wild hogs. Cannot eradicate them if we tried. The new Wisconsin success story like the wild turkey. So yes, land owners would likely still improve their land and habitat. (interesting fact, using your own words, you said "improve"). Freudian slip perhaps? Perhaps deep down, you actually agree that it is an improvement?
Why with all the feeding/plots/ habitat improvements/ less hunters/ are there less deer now than only a few years ago, you would think we would be over run. This is easy. There are less deer because CWD eradication, and in my opinion, a systematic way to make people fearful that there was an epidemic. Hell, you fell for it. I did not. So, less deer here in the south....except the farm I hunt. Never been better? I'll add that the north suffered two back to back seasons of terrible winters. winter die off was incredible. Add predators, lack of private land managers and shrinking public land consumed by hunters wanting their share with zero consideration for the future. This was less a DNR fault than a human fault. Then let me add that in the 80's, we had a lot of deer. Why? Because we used to have party tags, followed by hunter's choice, then bonus tags, then unlimited bonus tags, then T zone, October hunts, CWD, free tags, kill kill kill. That was the DNR's fault, the media's fault, the hunter's fault, and the private land owners who bought into the hype. BUT, but they learned from their mistakes. They learned that they needed to take things into their own hands. They became land managers of their own piece of the pie....and you want to condemn them? Condemn the farmer as well would you, because the whole time they held deer. They held the seed we are seeing in a recuperation of what we all want. You want it too. It's called a deer herd that is healthy. And still, you condemn people for making an attempt at doing just that? You make up preposterous claims that they are the enemy, and will be the demise of the herd? PHOOY!
I am not fearful of what we speak of, just would like to preserve a sport I believe many here enjoy, and do not want to be part of the cause when this comes crashing down....and if you really thought about it, and read these words, you'd realize the private land manager who is "improving" (your words) his land wants to preserve it as well. Break down the word preserve. a place to offer rest and ample habitat perhaps?
Like I said, I have an endless supply of debatable energy, and I'm not here to prove you wrong. I'm here to have YOU prove you wrong. You're doing just fine.
<--answer: I plan to stick to the tried and true foods and don't base my thought process on antlers ever. I base it on serving as many deer as I possibly can regardless of sex or age. I love seeing deer and same is true with my son.
"Would you own your land if there were no deer? "
<--answer: No I would not. I own 90 acres of wet and dumpy cedar swamp. It serves one purpose to me, my family, and my friends and that is deer hunting. Deer hunting is my only hunting passion but I do enjoy seeing other wildlife outside of coons, yotes, and wolves. My land has no value outside of holding deer. My primary reason for the purchase was so that my son would always have a place he could hunt. We own some land in Oneida County too but that is mostly lake property to fulfill our fishing fits with very little hunting opportunities.
"Would you continue improving habitat if there were no deer?"
<--answer: No. Please refer to my previous answer. My land ownership, while not utopia by any means, is mine and was paid for in cash. My plans are to improve it the best I can for deer with other wildlife getting benefits as a by-product.
To answer the latest question. When (not if but when) I buy property would I improve it if there were no deer. My answer is yes definatly because what constitutes great deer habitat also creates great beauty on the landscape. When I'm driving somewhere and I can look off the side of the road and say,"wow that looks like a great deer area". To me those great deer areas are the most beautiful part of our states scenery. So, yes if I can create that type of scenery with my own blood and sweat the way I want it to look the fact that I knew a deer was never going to step foot on it would not deter me.
Will I ever use bone growth supplements? No Will I ever bait? No Will I ever plant food plots or select cut trees or dig a bigger pond or plant apple trees on the land I currently hunt but do not own? I would love to do most of those things and in time I may do some but for me it would be done as a fun project to do that just happens to benefit the local wildlife.
Now, in thinking about putting one on my property, I have the perfect spot in mind for one! I would love to have one spot somewhere on the land where I can get out of the cold or rain. Maybe one day I'll build one and if I happen to arrow a coyote, turkey, or deer out of it I won't feel bad at all.
Neverbait
"Capt Do you have facts that a hunter owns the land.
Maybe it is leased, outfitted, or a friends eyesore.
Please show me the proof."
Does not matter, the fact that the houses are there is proof in and of itself that the land is being used for hunting. Any other stupid questions?
Just sayin'.