No feeding/baitng ban, NON BAN!
Wisconsin
Struggled with the title for this one. One would have to be a complete hermit. To not know that Vilas, Onieda, and Forest Counties now have a ban on the baiting and feeding of deer. I have heard from many people stating that there would be little to no enforcement of this.
Well it certainly seems so far these rumors are true. You would have to be blind, deaf, and completely stupid to not see the feeding taking place. The cow paths crossing the roads straight to homes. Where you can in many cases plainly see the feeders and fresh corn down. Had a skiff of snow yesterday. Yet can see fresh corn on the ground today. Even seen one guy dumping it out this morning.
Why is this not being enforced I wonder. Not even warnings being issued. As news of that would spread like wildfire. Really no point in calling a warden on it. Or the hotline. Your talking having to give dozens if not hundreds of addresses out. It's ridiculous.
The folks doing this just dont understand what they are doing beyond breaking the law. They are bringing the predators to their homes. That is where you will find the biggest one out now mostly, IE the WOLF!! With all the miles I am putting on in the woods right now. Better than 90% of the wolf tracks I have seen since the first of the year are near homes. Because that is where the deer are being fed and going. I have been in some really big sections lately. Not a single wolf track to be found in them at all. Not as many deer there either. The picture I added is just some of the places I have found wolf tracks around my town. Might as well just put a big red star on the whole town. As there really is not to many places I have found them lately.
Why have the laws if not going to bother with enforcement!
Because it's likely one hell of a big undertaking trying to enforce something that has been such a tradition for so long. There is probably a social aspect that needs to happen to not get complete blowback from a large portion of the population. In other words baby steps, even though I completely understand it is illegal. Speaking from someone who has been part of the bait ban from the very beginning, the wardens around here do not treat it lightly, but it's much easier to enforce, when it's not nearly disobeyed at that level you speak of.
IMO, life in the northern counties is a bit different than the south. Smaller communities with most people knowing each other tends to have law enforcement a little more relaxed.
Geitz, that, and the fact if the warden penalizes one person for a baiting or feeding act, he will certainly hear (in that same small community) this: "Why you picking on just me, when everyone else is doing the exact same thing? Enforcement might come with a newspaper warning first, before going balls out, trying to take on a virtual nightmare. I know down here, that was all the enforcement was at first, and baiting wasn't nearly as popular in farm country as it is in the north woods.
I have heard about local communities being upset with wardens which eventually have to be relocated. Also, in the south, I never really understood someone putting out a pile when their land is connected to a 300 acre bean field.
I would make the wardens aware of it Steve. I hunt a lot in Washburn county and there is a lot of illegal baiting there too. I have called in several times and the warden is responsive. Every one of these people need a ticket.
Nailed it Geitz! 300 acre bait piles rock!
There is no need to contact the warden on it. Unless he is sitting at home watching Oprah. There is no way he can not know about it. Besides I am still waiting for a response from my last message to him. Saying it was extremely urgent to speak to him. Should be interesting on the response when it is found out. There was an immediate response to another on the same exact matter at least 2 weeks later. It may have prevented some serious issues.
Like I said the news would spread like wildfire. Stopping at a few places giving a verbal warning. Would be enough to stop the majority of it. After some warning at least then give the tickets to those who still are doing it. That would be more than fair.
Dont think it really matters where you are. Or, how forgiving a warden is on things. Most are just going to flat hate them for doing their jobs. At least if they are doing their job to any degree.
I'll be out quite a bit the next week after the coming snow. I'll start taking pics, and counting the number of places actively feeding yet. Real easy to spot them!
Steve, I dont understand why they would take baiting seriously. They don't take CWD seriously. We still allow deer farms to exist and spit out infected animals time after time. I agree with your statement about being a waste of time reporting it. Its pretty much a free for all out there.
I don't bait but what is the big deal if someone feeds the deer in the winter? I can see it being a problem during the season, more so in the north.
Well IF and that's a big IF CWD is transmitted by nose to nose contact between deer - feeding and baiting of deer should be outlawed and strictly enforced.
However - unless I'm missing something is there any data out there that shows us beyond a shadow of a doubt that CWD is transmitted by nose to nose contact? Or is a matter of "Just to be on the safe side" kinda thing?
Either way we should follow the law....
it doesn't matter if they believe the cwd "hype". We don't get to pick and choose which laws to follow.
I realize it's the law and should be followed but if a landowner wants to feed the deer a healthy mix of corn, beans, protein pellets, etc I think they should be able to in the winter. If worried about a pile and cwd, broadcast it in a field.
If it bothers you, call the warden with specific information.
Wardens hands are tied if the courts are not willing to help. Fines get challenged and local da's get pissed handling these cases because they are overwhelmed by other crimes they find to be more serious. It be like charging ever 16 year old with vehicle theft when they borrow their parents car without asking.
Remember, the DNR is controlled by Republicans. Walker appointed all the top positions, plus all 7 positions on the Natural Resources Board. With budget cuts, fewer wardens, there are limited resources to enforce current law. This is by design. The DNR is as much a victim as the ignorant public. To get attention, the bait pile needs a spot light and many complaints.
I'm no lawyer. But if you were illegally doing something that resulted in property damages or injury. Would you not be liable for it? You hit a deer crossing the road going to an illegal feeder would make sense then.
There are many things that certainly do follow that exact train of thought. That I personally know very well! At least in one aspect.
WAIT 10 MINUTES LET ME MAKE SOME POPCORN FOR THIS ONE ! :))))
Yep and baitpiles weren't around before Walker?? Wow...
I will say the wardens I have dealt with do not ignore illegal baiting leads and have asked us to keep calling on the poachers, which we do. The fines need to be much stiffer to deter at least some from ignoring the law
"Would you not be liable for it? You hit a deer crossing the road going to an illegal feeder would make sense then." You would have to prove intent that that deer crossing the road had an intent to go to the illegal feeder and not just crossing the road. Any good lawyer could disprove that charge since the deer did not complete the action.
People want what the want. Darn the logic and often even the results.
Politicians want to keep all their options open. So they can tell one group yes and the other group no. Then they get votes from both sides.
To some extent, the law also likes options. Enforce the law when they think it should be and not when they don't want to. I didn't say wardens, to some extent they are stuck in the middle. Bosses who want to "keep the peace" (really just keep their jobs), but selecting when and where and to what extent a law gets enforced.
The only defense we have against the waffling is to embarrass and or guilt them. Though not politically correct (not the first word in that term), it is effective in making people do what they should. Heck I expect embarrassment and guilt were used very successfully by your mother and father.
When you see inappropriate behavior and can document it, put it in the paper. Call the radio station, if they have a call in program, and discuss it. If you have names and facts to back that up, then name names. In other words "call them on the carpet".
TrapperJack is correct in that, when penalties are involved, not just theoretical, then people listen. Any fairly smart 2 year old has learned when to ignore the empty threats.
I was talking to my dad who lives near the Minocqua/Lake Tomahawk area and I was curious if the gas stations were still selling "deer corn". Apparently, the gas stations have renamed the product to squirrel corn.
If you want to nip feeding in the butt, why not ban all stores from selling corn? As long as the product is available the people won't stop!
I disagree C2D. Enforce the law as it is regardless of the outcry. Should we not enforce others laws too just because some won't like it? I just don't think that's the right approach regardless of how long this has been going on. Its like not enforcing a trespass law because someone has been hunting the land for years IMO.
How would you ban a feed mill from selling corn or any other grain?
I'm not getting into the bait debate but I will say I think ANY LAW THAT WON'T BE ENFORCED IS A STUPID LAW! See it all around my cabin near Grantsburg, feeders everywhere and a game warden that lives right around the corner....obviously blind or too busy frying bigger fish. Let's get real, these are probably the easiest tickets he could ever write if he chose to. Maybe he prefers the more challenging cases..
I think the person to put the pressure on might be the district attorney, if they won't prosecute why should the warden mess with it?
Steve, you could always tip off the local news station. I'm sure they would be interested in doing a story on how the DNR is unwilling to enforce the law. But I would have a talk with the area warden before I did that. If he still refuses to do anything, tell him you are going to the media.
C2D has a good thought on that. In fact I should rethink this, and encourage the baiting. Not only may it result it some wolf management from the backlash of things. But at least I will know where they are most of the time, and be able to avoid them better myself.
The silver lining I was ignoring, GOOD TALK!!
I hate baiting for several reasons,,,,, its not fair chase, and it screws up natural movement, and makes my hunting harder than it needs to be,,,,,,
with that said, I do not believe it causes or spreads CWD,,,,,,,, if that was true, the UP, would have had it for many years,,,, ha ha
there is no way, feeding deer by the houses around eagle River, is ever going to be enforced/////
that genie is out of the bottle,,,,, I have had to adapt, and learn how to hunt bucks in the north, with the produce aisle of the grocery store spread all over the place....
however Steve, our warden in Florence Co is one hard working guy, who is fair and just, and will get to complaints, as fast as he can......
lets see our wardens are asked to do 4H, and the scouts, and hunter safety, and environmental laws and violations, and trapping and fishing and it goes on and on, and answer a million phone calls, and after all of this, they are under mileage restrictions..... and this is one guy
Steve I hear your pain, but there is no way, much is going to be done about it, I wish this was not how are northwoods, went, but its a reality.........
My daughter will have the ability of doing fly overs next spring, I can imagine, what you can see from the air,,,,,, dam woods look like a garbage dump
Folks in the northwoods have been feeding deer for years. Now a CWD deer shows up and they should all be held accountable. Ridiculous. The entire CWD thing has been blown out of proportion since the beginning. The more dire the predictions, the more new rules, regs and special seasons became law. The end result ? Nothing changed. Game farms (the cause) still exist, and for the most part are unregulated, a bunch of agenda's were filled, and of course the public, which had little or nothing to do with any of it, became the scape goat.
Maybe a flood of calls going into the TIP line would do some good. Get attention beyond the local warden and maybe DNR management will send some help. (I did say maybe) Heck, not like the wardens are all super busy this time of year. Northern towns radio stations are usually pretty good about public service announcements. A call to those stations asking them to read a 'warning' explaining what is going on might get a lot of them to stop. Hard part with this is they would need to follow up writing citations after a week or two.
Those that say DA's would not want to get involved. Would they really need to be involved? Wouldn't these citations be like a speeding or parking ticket. You pay the fine, go home, and hide the fact that you are still feeding. If the person pleads not guilty then maybe the DA and warden get involved a little bit.
Who cares how long these people have been feeding deer up north. It's irrelevant. They are not entitled to do as they please if there are laws against it.
"Neverbait: So you have an attractive teenage daughter, and an adult male takes a liking to her. If he cops a feel, that would be ok with some here, or do you wait until it is rape."
Just saving another completely stupid comment by neverbait, just to showcase his mentality.
WOW!
All of this because CWD was discovered in a PEN OF FARM RAISED DEER!!
Apparently there was no problem before it was discovered in a PEN OF FARM RAISED DEER!!
It appears that the PEN OF FARM RAISED DEER is causing the uproar over the feeding that has been taking place in the backyards of hundreds of residents of the area.
It appears to me that the solution is to remove THE PEN OF FARM RAISED DEER and allow the feeding of the deer in the backyards of these residents which has been happening for decades.
I have turnips, carrots and parsnips in my garden covered with straw. Every once in a while I have deer pawing at them. I have been raising these vegetables this way for decades. I live in a non-feeding county. It is a normal agricultural practice. Am I a criminal??
If you have an issue with it, call your DNR warden. If they don't handle the problem to your satisfaction, call their boss. If they don't handle it to your satisfaction call Secretary Stepp 608-266-2121. While you are at it contact your elected officials and let them know of the hundreds of violator in your area.
Steve- Would you NOT report a break-in at your neighbors house because you don't like him? I don't believe so.
If you don't report it you are part of the problem.....
Bow_tech, ignorance is no defense.
How it ends does not matter. You can murder somebody and if you are insane you will receive a different punishment than if premeditated. Same crime, different circumstances. The Warden has to use some judgement.
That's a sad story, it really is. But you make one exception and it just snowballs. Even if they don't immediately ticket the violators, they need to scare them into quitting. If they don't quit, they need to be written up and fined. But yes I do get your point. Every situation is different, that is why most cases the warden/leo uses his or her discretion.
Throw corn out. Your frost seeding for next years food plot.
Funny how many of you "landowners" were bent all out of shape at the idea of someone telling you what you can do on your land for improving it for wildlife in the landowner thread. But all for taking away something that gives pleasure to many because it suits YOUR wants.
"I. W. I. L. L. T. Y. P. E S. L. O. W. E. R."
Apparently typing slower did nothing to help your sentence structure. Maybe try it a bit slower next time. Keep at it big guy, we know you can do it.
Liberalism=. The old lady feeds the deer a bag of corn. N pays the price of a ticket!
Conservitsm "=. The guy owns a hundred. Acres. Has. Planted. Numerous food. Plots explains its. Not baiting. To the politican. While the polition has his pants around his ankles while he blows a smokescreen. To the polition.
Some don't get it. A pile of corn or a food plot is the same thing.
One Deer talking to another. Deer. Let's go over to the food plot. And eat. Just don't eat off the same. Turnip. We might spread something. It's all the same Those who cast the first stone are usually the ones that are hiding something
Bowtech, I would be surprised if that wonder did anything. He is generally a nice guy. So grandma most likely was let slide a bit. He does have much bigger fish to fry in that area, and sure wish he would get to it!! Before something serious happens!!
Like I and many have stated. It is something that some warnings need to be issued. A little leeway should be given. Hate to say educate folks as it is a hard fit. There are other ways a few deer could be attracted without breaking the feeding laws to some degree. Although I'm sure if corn was to fall from the bird feeders. It then could be considered deer bait. The wardens could get goofy on it.
Knowing it was coming well in advance. The weaning of them should have been going on. Assuming most did not. Again some time should be given to allow for it. So the deers digestive systems can adapt. We all know what will happen otherwise. It's sad that more are really not aware of what they are doing to the deer by putting all that corn out. They think they are helping, but only hurting.
I still like the silver lining C2S presented!!
Most likely some education is needed as not all homeowners who feed deer are hunters, and without being a hunter, they may not know the game laws.
I don't know, I've always tried to hold myself to a higher standard than simply "the law" when I'm using the great outdoors.
To equate an illegal lane change with illegal bating, for example, just doesn't wash with me. I'd argue the baiting violation is premeditated and the lane change wasn't. Nobody wakes up in the morning planning to run a red light, they do wake up planning to lay out some chum.
+1 TRACKER66. Morals and values come into play too.
Why do you guys answer that --------------
Where do we draw the line here though? People are saying, oh well it's a way of life in the north. it also use to be a way of life to go out and shoot a few deer for camp meat before deer camp. Is that ok also? It's a way of life for some to keep too many fish. It's a way of life for some to shoot any animal they want to on their own property, license/season or not. That must be ok as well.
I'm sure some of you remember the name Dean Crist. Well he currently has a petition going on about getting the baiting and feeding ban lifted in the 3 counties.
Gosh I hope it is lifted. WI has to see the light eventually.
The infection rate goes up. Yet the state lowers the fencing requirements for deer farmers?
The issue I have is the fact that other states are seeing CWD and they are not taking such drastic steps in curbing the spread. IA is a good example. I think it would good if WI simply quit bringing CWD to the media. CWD will run its course throughout the state, Creating laws to prolong it from doing so is simply stupid. Allow it to happen so the herd can rebuild itself. I think it is fair to say there will always be a deer herd in WI. It will either be CWD or EHD that reduces the herd to a healthy carrying capacity cause they hunters can not do it.
Tin foil hat time.
DNR reps keep saying how they really want to manage the wolves, but hands are tied. Maybe they are trying to do it in a round about way. Allowing cwd to spread so more mass eradication can be put in place on the deer. There by reducing the main forage for wolves reducing the numbers as a result.
Good thing I quit drinking or could really come up with some screwy stuff!
